Why was this the weakest of the trilogy?

Why was this the weakest of the trilogy?

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death star 2.0

singing frog woman and african teddy bears

This. Yet omehow we had 2 more flicks based on death stars and references to it in every other movie despite all the other shit they could have made.

Alll of the above, but also too much time in the forest. The middle of the movie drags.

endor sucks but everything else in this film is top tier

But it's actually the best of the trilogy, because of pic related

Endor was just an excuse for the movie to give us ewoks.
Realistically, the movie should have taken us to Coruscant. That's where the Empire began and it is where it should have ended as well/

Some people don't like ewoks. It's not bad at all, the other two just go the extra mile, this one does not. That being said whilst it is objectively the worst (not bad though) it is my personal favorite.

What singing frog woman? I dont remember a singing frog woman? The only music I remember in this one, besides the score, was some classy as fuck baroque music in jabas castle/sailbarge.

Battle of Endor. It was just nonsense, meanwhile the Han Rescue and the Vader Redemption was total Kino.

...

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a very cringey song and dance number was added into the special edition

While Jedi had the best scenes (pic related) it also had the worse (teddy bears). I'd say that it a bit lower than New Hope bit not by much
Need to watch the less cgi filled Jedi sometime soon tho. Maybe I'll change my mind

At least you and your dubs agree that Ep V is the plebian choice of the trilogy

Oh, I see. I guess my age is showing. I haven't seen that version. Its been a long time.

Lucas got rid of Gary Kurtz and basically anyone else who would really challenge him, overwrote Kasdan's ideas, and began making major plot decisions that he thought would improve toy sales instead of making decisions that he thought were best for the movie. On top of this, Lucas was going through a messy divorce and was ready to move on from Star Wars. All things considered, I think it's a small miracle that RotJ is as good as it is.

Good taste my dude. The Vader redemption arc is the absolute fucking pinnacle of the trilogy. No amount of toy bears can ruin the feels of that moment.

The climax of the movie keeps sharing the same train with midgets in a furry costume throwing rocks at cardboard robots.

people forget how bad Star Wars really is

>The climax of the movie keeps sharing the same train with midgets in a furry costume throwing rocks at cardboard robots.
this always bothered me about star wars, they always like to have multiple things going on at once during the climax, sometimes to its detriment
>cutting to the stupid yoda and sheev fight during obi wan and anakin's duel
>cutting to the stupid rose and finn plotline during the giant throne fight in TLJ
why can't we have an extended scene for once

>Death Star 2.0
>Jabba's Palace arc was an interesting concept, but it went on longer than it should've.
>Luke's continued training is never shown.
>Yoda's death took too long.
>Where the hell did the rest of the Rebel Fleet even come from?
>Sheev's bait & switch was assholish in hindsight.
>The Forest Moon of Endor just felt like a lame setting for a final battle against the Empire as opposed to the grandiose of Hoth, Bespin, the Asteroid Field, Coruscant, or any other location.
>Ewoks.
>Ewok village.
>Ewoks killing Stormtroopers with primitive weaponry thousands of years behind the Empire.
>Ewoks somehow know how to braid human hair.
>Chewie's lame haircut.
>Sheev's throne room looked like a cheap warehouse.
>Duel between Luke and Vader was less dramatic than in ESB.
>Blast from Death Star 2.0 on ships somehow doesn't cause a massive explosion that wipes out the entire fleet.
>Sheev could've assisted Vader in fighting Luke.
>How Sheev didn't foresee Luke not turning to the dark side is beyond me. "Hubris" be damned.
>Vader's sudden turn back to the light felt too quick just from seeing his son getting tortured. Like, so what? He's killed thousands at his own hands between the events of Episodes III & IV.
>Luke quickly recovering from Sheev's Force Lightning torture.
>None of the Imperial Guards notice Vader's murder of Sheev.
>Stormtroopers ignore Luke and Vader.
>Lando piloting the Falcon and blowing up the Death Star 2.0 felt wrong. It's Han's ship, not his. That should've been Han's moment.
>Death Star 2.0's destruction should've affected the Forest Moon in some way, like meteors raining down on the Ewok village.
>Yub Nub was fucking cringey.
>Ends too quickly.

Ewoks, Endor, Leai, Han, they were all useless, because this time the whole story revolved around Luke again like it always kind of did, Empire just made Leai and Han too interesting even though their story ended after they rescued Han from Jabba

>Han's rescue plan is retarded
>rushed end of a trilogy after spending half of the movie in retarded rescue
>"Leia is your sister LOL"
>ewoks
>Death Star 2: Electic Boogaloo
>battle of Endor
>not time enough to develop Luke's growth nor Vader's redemption
>Emperor betting everything on a double or nothing when Empire has the upper hand
We had a couple of kino moments in Jabba's lair and within Death Star with Luke/Vader/Sheev, but those don't redeem the rest of the movie.

It has some pretty ridiculous bullshit.

ROTJ despecialized isn't so bad though it does drag. Makes a huge difference seeing non-hayden Ani at the end. That honestly broke me emotionally.

Among all the things already mentioned, the cinematography is a lot weaker than ESB. The lighting is pretty bad too, it feels like it's shot like a Made For TV movie at times.

>death star 2.0
This is hilarious because I now realize it was filler. The important plot points are Han's rescue and Luke confronting vader. The entire Battle of Endor is a toy commercial and I fucking love it.

This happens in nearly every Star Wars movie. It's kind of tiring actually. It'd be nice if all the main characters were kept together more often.
>Gungan battle, Padme taking the throne room, Darth Maul duel, Trench run 0
>Obi-wan, Anakin, and Yoda dueling Count Dooku
>Anakin dueling Obi-Wan, Sheev dueling Yoda
>Trench run 1
>Escaping from Cloud City, Luke dueling Vader
>Ewoks, Trench run 2, Throne room
>Rey and Finn dueling Kylo, Trench run 3
>Escaping Crait, Luke committing Force suicide
AotC and ANH are the only two movies that don't do this.

Not always. A New Hope didn't suffer from this nonsense. It focused on the run on the Death Star.

Yeah, it's the best climax in the series, and it's also the exception and not the rule.

Bruh the guards were told to fucking leave. At least try.

Easy: No Gary Kurtz

it's also my favorite star wars movie

Endor is still the best space battle.
Episode 3 intro could be better without this fucking vibrodroid...

>NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
thx lucas...

do you have webms of the space battle going down
that shit is so cash

didnt like Jabba's palace part and it draws out way too long. also didn't like the Endor/Ewoks part.

Only good part about this movie are the Empire parts like which are very well done.

Worst of the original trilogy by far and I'd even rank RotS above it.

>first act is dragged out and not connected to the rest of the movie
>Ewoks
>ground battle of Endor is pretty lame overall
>Executor destroyed in 20 seconds
>the rest of the Star Destroyers just disappear even though they massively outnumber the rebel fleet
>B-wings are not shown in the battle at all
>Vader reading Luke's mind

youtu.be/4wSG3m4VNlo

Oh man, that space battle looks so good, though. Notice that the "camera" either keeps stationary or moves steadily, which gives everything a dignified epic sort of feel and keeps the focus on what is happening rather than on the filmmaking choices (while all long, the filmmaking choices are actually creating the audience reactions, but in a subtle way). None of this bullshit of pointlessly quick cuts and the camera zooming around like a bee.

you guys worship shit like this when we have scenes like Yoda vs. Tyrannus and Maul vs. Obi/Jinn. Im really vexed in that regard

Does the original trilogy actually ever say much about Courscant? I honestly can't remember it being mentioned much. Like does it blatantly say the Empire was formed there or was that something that just came about from the prequels?

I don't think it's ever mentioned, no. The very end of RotJ has a scene of people celebrating on Coruscant after the victory at Endor, but from what I recall that was added in special editions. Lucas borrowed the name "Coruscant" from the EU for the prequels.

The Ewoks aren't even that bad, they just should've show more of them grabbing rifles off of downed stormtroopers (a couple of them do) instead of throwing rocks. Would've made it more believable.
The main problem is how the middle act is all recaps and boring exposition.

Maybe, but that's like saying out of the three redheaded wet and lusty bimbos that just serviced you, one had some stubble on her vagoo and was therefore the worst.

here's a cut of the entire battle, just pretend its a webm

youtube.com/watch?v=xPZigWFyK2o

No, Coruscant was first introduced in the Thrawn trilogy in the early 90s.

You are unwise to LOWER YOUR DEFENCES!

it's a good movie, mostly because of a few key scenes (throne room, space battle etc.) and general art direction/special effects.

but the story is also an incoherent mess with lots of boring shot/reverse shot dialogue, ford hamming it up, endor teddy bears and other garbage.

Sebastian Shaw has such warmth in his eyes while Hayden just awkwardly stares at his feet and then points a rapey smile directly at the camera. The 1997 Special Edition of that scene is probably the best version, my favourite at least, since it features Victory Celebration and Shaw.

youtu.be/FMJp_zXAUFg

Yeah because this scene is way better than that gay shit you cited
Jabba's palace was visually cool but their rescue plan was pretty dumb. Too much exposition in the second act ("is Vader REALLY my father?") is a bigger problem than Endor though and I'd still say it's better than RotS based only on the throne room scenes and ending space battle. I still enjoy the speeder chase too.

Well to be fair wasn't the prequel trilogy supposed to mirror the OT? Although I guess 1 and 4 should be matched up not 2 and 4. Idk.

>WHY MOVIE SLOW DOWN?
>WHY THEY TALKING!?
>WHY NOT JUMP IN SPACESHIPS MAKE BADGUYS GO BOOM?!

Brevity is the soul of wit

Dismisses plot threads from empire as quickly as possible in an anti-dramatic fashion

Cringe dialogue scenes

Derivative

George just wanted to get straight to the action and stay there like raiders. He didn't care about finishing the story from ESB in a culturally significant way

Gary Kurtz explained this and why he left

Those two massive "bubbly" ships behind the falcon look so generic, they look like they're from the fifth element or something.

>teddy bears defeat the emperor's "finest legion" with rocks and slings

It felt like a kids movie where the bad guys slip on toy cars and get hit with a bucket of paint.

The Luke/Vader duel was gold though.

The best scene is the Throne Room which is mostly talking.
All the exposition on Dagobah is telling us shit we already knew, and Luke already knew, with the exception that Leia is his sister: Vader is Luke's father, Obi-Wan trained him but failed when he turned to the Dark side, Vader is evil. It made sense for Luke to go back to see Yoda again (he actually should've done this between the two movies), but when he got there Yoda should've had more new things for him to learn.

And they didn't think of coming back when they heard their majesty falling to his death?

They show a couple of Ewoks grabbing blasters, if they had shown more of that right after the initial surprise ambush it would've made it seem much more plausible. Also should've had the AT-STs wrecking shit more.

Sounds like "Brevity" is the name of the dildo inside you, because it certainly doesn't apply to your criticisms. The movie wasn't a comedy, you dumbass.

Why would they? If they even heard, he's already dead so they failed. Plus the station was fucking exploding. It makes more sense than Snoke's guards attacking Kylo instead of just serving him now that he's given himself a Klingon promotion to the head of the First Order.

The saying doesn't apply just to comedy. It means that every line of dialogue should serve a purpose. 95% of the Dagobah dialogue was just a recap of things already known to the audience and to Luke.

I've seen a lot of legitimate complaints about RotJ but this is the stupidest set of "criticisms" I've ever seen

>It makes more sense than Snoke's guards attacking Kylo instead of just serving him now that he's given himself a Klingon promotion to the head of the First Order.

That's a professionalism thing - if your VIP gets killed you should do your damnedest to make sure the assassin doesn't make it out. Imagine how that would look on a resume.
>It says here your last employer was murdered by a subordinate?
>Yeah, but we let him go.

>Sheev could've assisted Vader
The point was that he thought he won either way - whichever of them succeeded would be a more powerful servant for him.
>Sheev didn't forsee Luke not turning
"Always in motion, the future is." We know that from Yoda in ESB. Sheev couldn't forsee every possible future.
>Vader' s turn is too sudden
He offered to betray the Emperor with Luke in ESB. He also had a few clearly regretful lines showing he may be tempted by Luke's offer ("It is too late now for me, son.")
>Stormtroopers ignore Luke and Vader
The station is literally falling down around them.

>so generic that they look like something specific
Good god, you are stupid.

Yeah but who else is in a better position to offer them a new job than Kylo at that point?

;_;

Jaba's Palace feels a lot creepier and seedier without that fucking Jedi Rocks song playing.

Same reasons why the third installment of a trilogy is always the weakest.

>The second sets up too many loose ends and resolving them quickly is a letdown.
RotJ set up Jabba, Vader, Boba Fett, and the Emperor as villains who all needed to be dealt with, so Boba and arguably Jabba and the Emperor ended up getting less than what was promised.

>Individual headcanon answers to questions always seem better to individuals than what gets made canon.
Such as the reason for Obi-Wan lying, who and what Jabba was, the Emperor's end goal, etc.

>You have to add new characters to keep it fresh, but those characters can eat up too much screentime away from the characters everyone loves.
Lando got a huge push in RotJ, which wasn't necessary and just distracted from the main heroes. Other characters like Wicket and Akbar were rather weak and ate up a lot of screentime and dialogue.

>Things have to get more serious, but you can't lose the tone of the originals.
The tone is all over the place in RotJ, it bounces from comedy to high stakes drama too rapidly. The worst offender is Boba Fett's death, but you also have Han joking around and 3PO getting worshiped as a god while Luke is trying to redeem his father and fight the evil inside him. It's the precursor to Phantom Menace, which was even worse at managing tone.

>The events thus far can't have been for nothing, but there still needs to be a new or more severe threat.
Making a new Death Star was a mistake, it made the events of the first movie seem meaningless, and it didn't up the stakes enough. It makes the whole movie feel like a retread of old ground rather than a next step.

I can't imagine anything like this coming out of the sequel trilogy.

vader's redemption always gets me teary-eyed

-Tatooine segment drags on and the plan is retarded. Everyone goes in one at a time to get captured, and in the end it all hinges on R2 launching Lukes lightsaber at him. What if they had scrapped the droids when they arrived?
-Teddy bear race a transparent toy advertisement, time wasted on bullshit (caught in a net trap, captured, think c3po is a deity, etc.)
-Vader changed again: loose cannon number two in ANH, number two that secretly wants to overthrow his boss in ESB, kinda mopey evil dad in ROTJ
-Emperor's taunts toward Luke long-winded and repetitive, he says that Luke's friends will be destroyed like 5 times
-Confronting Vader & Emperor amounts to little because the rebels destroy the death star anyway

Just be grateful. I'm so glad I still have my old tapes.

In retrospect ROTJ has a lot of the story problems of the prequels but they're papered over by actually competent filmmaking. Weird, inexplicable, lazy creative decisions like introducing a second Death Star and straight up repeating the climax of the first movie is EXACTLY the kind of bullshit that would be at home in the prequels.

This. But it doesn't ruin the movie. Return of the Jedi is my personal favorite, but I acknowledge that while the first two are near flawless Jedi does have some issues like another Death Star

You were right user........you were right.

Mouse should hire on Kurtz to right the ship.

But the special edition also gave us this:

youtube.com/watch?v=II04E2GEJG8

This is way better and way more fitting than the Yab Nub thing.

Curoscant was first mentioned in heir to the empire. Never uttered in the original trilogy, it was from the EU.

>building your super secret death weapon right above your massively populated capital planet
??

Ranking the films of the OT against each other is like ranking your children: you may have favorites but you just don't allow the mind to go there.

How would all those other planets know immediately that they were "free" and start celebrating?

>building your massive capital investment with demonstrated risk at the most secure location in your territory

...

EWOKS!!!

Death Star 4.0 when?

100% correct except for everything you said about the Throne Room fight and the Emperor. You're going into the film with all the knowledge from the prequels, which you shouldn't. The scene is great as long as you realize the prequels were a joke.
>"sheev"
>Vader killing children so why is he sad for Luke?
>luke recovering from lighting so quick
These are all complaints based on information from the prequels, in actuality we had no idea the true powers of the Emperor until he demonstrated them with the lightning. Remember, he calls Luke's lightsaber a "Jedi weapon" right at the beginning.

Fuck ewoks, fuck Jabba, fuck Death Star 2.0

For me personally:
V > IV = VI

There are some bigger flaws in ROTJ but it makes up for it in all the other areas. If you don't think the Jabba's Palace sequence is kino you need to leave.

It's actually the best in the trilogy

>Jabbas palace with muppet gangsters
>Sheevs best moments
>Best lightsaber duel

Dunno, only the last act of Empire was cool. Everything on Hoth was fedoracore

Was the weakest of both OT and PT

what the fuck those are not even remotely comparable in any way. the final duel in RotJ is full of emotion and meaning and the ones you cite are empty ballets

Yeah. People forget that there was a non-extended version of Jabba's palace that didn't suck. And the Ewoks are fine except when they fight. Using them to find a path through the forest was fine.

could the ewoks be fixed if they were wookies. i mean soem super pissed bigfoots ripping apart storm troopers would have been cool.

I agree with everything about ROTJ, but I don't understand why you would say that about Hoth. Every scene there (and in the rest of the movie) was kino.

Lucas made up the capital planet during the OT and named it Had Abandon.
When making Phantom Menace he changed the name to Coruscant.

That would've been better yeah but even the Ewoks could've been fine if they weren't literally throwing rocks and using spears. If they had blasters and were more Viet-Cong style in their tactics it would be way more believable.

The battle on Endor was intended to be an allusion to Vietnam, not surprising Sup Forums is too dumb to realize an obvious parallel.