Listen you idiots The Last Jedi sucked. But it did not suck because of all this alt-right/neo-nazi garbage. It sucked because:
1. The plot was a modern corporate “set-piece” showcase that made up “cool scenes” and wrote a story around them instead of creating a plot that could generate excitement through it’s narrative.
2. Rey is bad not because she’s a powerful competent women, she’s boring because she is a generic paint by numbers “insert-here” protagonist meant to be as inoffensive as possible so no possible merchandising demographic would not like her.
3. Finn had a good arc in The Force Awakens. Shame then that he apparently forgot it all between movies and repeated it all this movie. That why he was so pointless, not cause he’s black.
4. Canto Bight is a thirty minute waste of time that does not effect the plot. It has no “anti-capitalist message” it has a toothless “hurr greed bad” message.
5. Holdo is a bad character because she is a walking plot device that makes decisions only so others have to take action. She was created backwards. Where they wanted Poe to learn a lesson about “not being a hot-head” but didn’t want him to actually do something wrong because then the audience wouldn’t like him (and buy his merchandise). therefore she makes contradictory and nonsensical moves because she isn’t a character, but a plot-object. None of this has to do with her purple hair (it’s space, some planets have weird hair) or being a woman.
6. Hyperspace ramming as elaborated in detail elsewhere invalidates the entire franchise.
7. Luke had all his character development from a whole trilogy wiped out. All so they could do a cliche “fed-up with life kung-fu master” cliche who then dies from thinking too hard.
cont.
The Definitive TLJ effortpost
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8. The First Order are illogical, apparently they built a fleet and accompanying super weapons as big as the Galactic Empires without having a galaxy or empire to fund and build them. Somehow the entire galaxy is fine with them rolling up and taking charge without so much as a shrug because they blew up one system with a weapon they no longer have. The OT empire was well presented in how they ruled and operated the galaxy even in A New Hope. The First Order has no characterization beyond “remember the Empire?” Nothing the First Order does is even remotely related to the Republican party, their pretty generic space facists. They never rant about immigration or healthcare or really anything political other than the same "We hate Freedom" that the original Empire did, and they have a diverse multi-racial and gender equal approach to evil, more so even than the original. Unless you think being obvious pulp-Nazi stand-ins is an accurate depiction of the GOP they're pretty toothless when it comes to current political commentary.
9. Snoke is stupid, lots of critics claim “we knew nothing about the Emperor” but the viewer had no preconceived knowledge about the Star Wars universe in the original films. It stands to reason that powerful characters existed, unknown to the viewer.
In the new trilogy, the universe is established, The evil was the Empire, Vader and the Emperor. For a character of Snokes immense power to exist is contradictory. It requires an explanation. And for characters such as Luke and Leia to refer to him by name, on multiple occasions, and for others such as Rey to never question this, is disconcerting, unnatural and entirely immersion breaking.
cont.
10. Bad costume design, In the OT and PT everyone has a unique look and silhouette that is both easy to pick out in a crowd and memorable. From the Rebels on the Tantive IV to the Tatooine/Jedi robe look, to the Naboo guard outfits, to the Troopers in the Hoth Trenches. None of the costumes in The Last Jedi do this. I couldn't tell you what most main characters wore much less the extras. Everything is so generic and uninspired you could use it in another movie and no one would notice they were reusing Star Wars costumes.
11. All the ships and vehicles are just the original trilogies with some extra lines painted on. Both the prequels and Rogue One managed to have designs that were simultaneously unique looking but still thematically similar to the original movies. everything save the salt-speeders is just a repainted original with some flaps.
12. Finally It's funny hearing people complain about "fanboys" wanting TLJ to be a retread when TLJ dedicates it's entire runtime to nullifying any changes to the story since ANH. It has been 35 years in-universe and everything is now at exactly the same point it was during ANH, Empire has uncontested rule of the galaxy, Scrappy rebels (They even change their name from Resistance to Rebels in the third act!), Dark Lord ruling the aforementioned Empire, One half-trained Jedi to keep on the Orders legacy (which has been otherwise wiped out), and so-on. The entire original trilogy might as well not have happened now because the universe has been reset to a merchandise friendly timeless limbo.
The most important thread on Sup Forums right now
Is there a way to archive this beautiful post.
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Wow! And even though l personally enjoyed the movie, I can still agree and understand all of your points because you don't sound like a raging betamale crying about "muh jews, muh womyn, muh racemixing".
Good thread OP, finally an opinion that can be taken seriously.
Absolutely nailed it OP
I don't think you can ignore the racial aspect of the new Star Wars movies. The original movies were about a rebel group fighting against an oppressive Empire that was taking over the galaxy. Both sides were mostly white, it wasn't a racial war, though you did have some alien groups join the rebels in the 3rd movie. The new Star Wars movies are about a multi-cultural society that gets attacked by a neo-nazi galactic military, which is trying to create a 2nd galactic Empire. The resistance is multi-cultural, and the Empire is white.
10/10 post
>Implying cultural marxists didn't ruin this franchise about guerilla fighters overthrowing fascist regimes
The transparent and ham-fisted e-politics are a strike against the movie, sure, but it has far bigger problems, and OP does a great job of outlining them.
A bald assertion isn't an argument. I've already refuted your representation based arguments. Give me something else.
Good shit my man
i'm late to the party, what's the best online stream for TLJ?
Excellent use of a VPN, OP. Bravo.
Reported
10/10 post
but you also forgot yoda becoming a crazed cackling anti-knowledge and anti-intellectual
Disney, Lucasfilm, JJ Abrams, the actors, Kathleen Kennedy, Rogue One's screenwriters, all bring race, gender and sex while talking about the new Star Wars movies, but we can't point at how hamfisted those look in the recent flicks because you don't like it.
ok
kek dem tabs
Am I weird for thinking the hyperspace ramming didn't ruin the series? Seems like too much assumptions that people had previously thought of that before. Holdo could have invented the idea, so it would not actually have fucked the previous movies. Its like, ok you invented the first military usage of gunpowder, its not going to fuck world history lol.
Also it would literally be super easy to fix, just either make a special shield to deflect hyperspace, some sort of hyperspace jammer, or other future tech. It was a one time only thing.
I liked your point .8.
Yeah that point about the rebels is quite funny actually. Its almost like they are suggesting they weren't shit unless they went by the Rebels name.
this.
the producers themselves made it about race and it obviously is such. this thread is full of samefags that's forsure because your effortpost is fucking surface level observations that have been made dozens of times already. you haven't broken new ground here, you're repeating the same shit as always and you should kill yourself for shilling yourself so much.
>effortposting
I've only heard this phrase in one context before...
Well yeah anyone with any idea of what a good story looks like recognized that from the get go. Whoever wrote this should be summarily drummed out of hollywood and told to eat the script as it was shit.
It chooses to shove all of the old parts of star wars aside so that they can create new ones to sell. Lucas always wanted to create new places for the story and then work out merchandise based upon it later.
This is because it was something lucas loved, it made him and he probably hoped that by selling it someone could stop him from making it terrible. He didn't realize at the time who he had sold it to, and likely greatly regrets the decision.
it's all ok because Reylo is cannon now
>gender politics and stupid shit about veganism is now alt-right neo nazi
Excellent summary
Brilliant just straight brilliant. Any one of these would have been enough, but all of them just make it all the better.
If you have been browsing Sup Forums since this film came out, no one has ever said that the reason this movie is bad is because of Jews, woman etc. Purple haired woman is badly written no doubt but I love that actress and welcomed her to this movie.
Also this gave me more respect for JJ's TFA because that set many things up and Rian ruined almost everything JJ did.
>within 15 seconds of eachother
>basically the same comment
what the fuck is going on here? why the need to shill yourself this way?
>5. Holdo is a bad character because she is a walking plot device that makes decisions only so others have to take action.
> therefore she makes contradictory and nonsensical moves because she isn’t a character, but a plot-object.
FYI there's an actual name for this shitty writing
Brilliant post. Very insightful, couldn't have said it better myself.
In times of war clever people experiment with lots of technologies and strategies before implementing them. Considering the fact that the Star Wars universe is on the equivalent of World War III (at the very least) at this point, it's not really feasible that nobody had ever thought about or tried weaponising hyperspace technology. It's just one of the laziest deus ex machinas in a mainstream movie ever.
>tvtropes
gas yourself, faggot
Imma need these compiled into one screen cap.
if you're not a racist you can easily ignore the racial aspect of anything, especially a fantasy story like Star Wars
I just recently saw TLJ, and to be honest, I don't plan on seeing the sequel. TLJ feels like it's the ending of the trilogy. They could have tweaked it and have Rey actually accept Kylo's proposal, if he intended to spare the Resistance and actually reformed the FO, that could have been the conclusion.
That aside, other than answering if Kylo Ren turns to the Light Side or remains with the Dark and what happened to his Knights, what's left? Johnson went of his way to answer most of the questions that fans wanted to know TFA.
Rey is a nobody, Snoke isn't relevant and will have no backstory, just like Rey, and there will be no reunion with Luke and Kylo, or Leia. What is there to look forward to?I just don't feel at all excited for the next installment. Most of the questions were answered.
All that needs to be said.
That could be a fair point if hyperspace was brand new, but hyperspace travel is several millennia old and the galaxy's seen dozens of interstellar conflicts. I don't think the Clone Wars was even the biggest, without a doubt didn't have the biggest body count when half of them are robots.
>Am I weird for thinking the hyperspace ramming didn't ruin the series? Seems like too much assumptions that people had previously thought of that before. Holdo could have invented the idea, so it would not actually have fucked the previous movies. Its like, ok you invented the first military usage of gunpowder, its not going to fuck world history lol.
The Star Wars galaxy has had space faring civilizations for thousands of years, and technology is super stagnant. It's absurd to claim that nobody had ever thought of weaponizing hyperspace technology before.
>The new Star Wars movies are about a multi-cultural society that gets attacked by a neo-nazi galactic military, which is trying to create a 2nd galactic Empire. The resistance is multi-cultural, and the Empire is white.
except the First Order has Asians and black women
>if it agrees with your worldview, you can easily ignore the racial aspect of anything, especially a fantasy story like Star Wars
FTFY
>accuse your enemy of what you are doing
Only a retard cant see the obvious anti white racism in this film.
It has nothing to do with your epithet about viewers noticing, and everything to do with dangerous propaganda being produced with Malicious intent by the makers.
These people are dangerous and need to be legaly barred from participating in the united states. They have declared themselves an open and brazen fifth column of foreign actors pushing marxist ideals and propagandizing young children with anti nativist anti white indoctrination.
No native son should have to sit idly by while foreign nationals commit acts of treason an war while they accuse him of being morally wrong.
You should be ashamed of yourself. Your morality is false and your benighted viewpoint should remain unannounced.
You see a lot, OP. But can you point that high-powered perception at the rest of the franchise? What about it? Why don't you – why don't you look at the original franchise and write down what you see? Or maybe you're afraid to...
Spotted the soyboy
It was a different time back then.
Look at any film from the era. None of them make much sense or have cohesion to a modern audience.
Your comparison is idiotic but i will try and make an anology.
You want to compare a 1950's corvette to a 2017 corvette.
Well their not comparable, the 50's corvette was a hell of a car for the time, but is worse now than any econobox.
That sweet magnum PI ferrari. That had 200 hp. Now 20,000 dollar hatchbacks have 300 and a fucking turbo which was barely F1 tech.
Anyway your comparison is shit and you should feel bad.
good arguments
>comparing movies to cars.
How about we stick to comparing movies to movies.
Fuck you 1970 was way long ago in terms of budget, scope, scale, and it still did it better.
Nice grasping at straws though
>hur durr look at the original from 77 and you'll see mistakes
Isnt a counter point, its not even an actual response to any of what OP just summarized and exemplary showed.
>If you have been browsing Sup Forums since this film came out, no one has ever said
Sure they have. Loads of people have, actually. They're idiots, but they exist.
can you please stop samefagging? the thread is fine but youre making a fool of yourself and the originals posts weren't even that insightful
I'm not sure you understand the meaning and context of the words you're typing on the internet.
>The plot was a modern corporate “set-piece” showcase that made up “cool scenes” and wrote a story around them instead of creating a plot that could generate excitement through it’s narrative.
This seems so fucking common nowadays. It feels like first the big setpieces are designed, then later a team of corporate hacks hastily scribbles a plot that will connect the dots of those setpieces.
Drive that 50s corvette and then drive that econobox.
There's something about how a thing feels that technology can't replicate.
>Rey is bad not because she’s a powerful competent women, she’s boring because she is a generic paint by numbers “insert-here” protagonist meant to be as inoffensive as possible so no possible merchandising demographic would not like her.
Rey is also a Mary Sue. Especially in TFA. She gains skills as the plot demands, she is equally good or better than anyone at everything, and inexplicably other characters become incompetent around her. And in the TLJ Snoke says she is strong because Kylo Ren is strong. Kylo had to work to get where he is. But Rey is equally talented because he has to have an equal. No one can defend this.
Am I just not knowledgable enough about Star Wars lore or does anyone else find the space battles boring?
Maybe I am just stupid but I never have a clear idea what is going on. What does the situation look like? Where are all the ships positioned? How much ressources do both sides have? I don't know what any of the ships are capable of. All I see is CGI effects which I don't find impressive considering how good video games look now. The battles are also so anonymous that it doesn't feel like anything is at stake - there is no tension for me.
It feels like watching a sports game that you don't know the rules of.
Someone make this a power point and send it to Disney
Trips confirms the need. This is concise and insightful.
Lucas modeled the battles off real footage. There's a kind of tension that can't be replicated by writers. Not to mention, limited camera motions mean you need to keep things slower and simpler. This is why Endor works.
Big triangles are bad guys
Big dildos are good guys
Ships are positioned in opposite areas
Good guys ships have fighters they can launch and that's about it
Bad guy ships have fighters, defense cannons, and generally some big gun
Ships are self-contained with not supply line or resources other than what they carry.
>if you're not a racist you can easily ignore the racial aspect of anything
Awesome. Now there is not reason to complain about whites being in everything. Shaka Zulu starring Chris Pratt? NO PROBLEM.
Can we have a succinct summary like this that explains to the prequelfag apologists why those movies are also extremely terrible?
idk, Luke force projection Vs. the 1st order guys was badass.
Woulda been better if they didn't kill him off though.
Who cares, nerd? Only male virgins care about star wars before the Force Awakens, the new trilogy is the only one that matters, virgin!
Nice effort post. But no one seriously believes it sucked because of any political agenda. It really was trash was on all levels.
>good guys blow up big bad ship/station and battle is over
Guessing the image and reference went flying way far above your head. Franchise includes 1 2 and 3 btw, so your 1950's and 1970 references go out the window. I do wonder how old you guys are. Old fag at 33 btw.
>leave my tumblrina self insert character alone
Ah yeah thanks for that anons, I guess I had no idea how long they had known about hyperspace, all I knew was it started maybe 150 years ago. I watch the movies but not really interested in the lore beyond them.
Dude I seriously saw it for the first time tonight and that was such a nagging feeling for me. I thought a brilliant ending would have been if they had clasped hands then held hands lovingly and watched their fleet and rebellion burn then use a wipe and Directed by Rian Johnson.
The viewer would have lost their shit, the third movie is about Reylo.
>The entire original trilogy might as well not have happened now because the universe has been reset to a merchandise friendly timeless limbo.
And it will be reset again. And again. And again. Disney can keep promising and not delivering. Don’t be surprised if Episode IX ends with all the characters either ending up in a whole new galaxy. Or the first order has a weapon that resets history.
Bretty good user.
>EpIX will end up mixing with the MCU and the newly introduced Spiderverse/Fanfuckingtastic four universe
>Rey will become the universal princess
I think I'm gonna save this and repost it in every TLJ thread from now to the end of time.
Thanks user.
>Canto Bight is a thirty minute waste of time that does not effect the plot. It has no “anti-capitalist message” it has a toothless “hurr greed bad” message.
Don't feel like addressing your whole blog But this is an unfortunate trend on this board. Movies are not just there to unroll a plot. Scenes and sequences can also be used for world building and characterization. For showing off design production. The Japanese have this while philosophy about putting moments of nothing in movies to let things breathe. You see a lot of that in Hiyao Miyazaki movies, for instance.
I say all that because it's often said on this board that nothing is happening or a sequence is a waste because it's not explicitly advancing the plot. Those are examples of other functions that scenes could serve. Canto Bight doesn't advance the plot but it world builds and advances Finn's character (and Poe's indirectly). You see another side of the Galaxy that you've never seen before, find out where the FO got their financing, and see how the First Order harms ordinary people. We see those things. FINN sees those things, and realizes there's more to fight for than any one person.
Even if you disagree, can we drop the "it didn't advance the plot" meme?
Shaq's got your back my man
That would have set up nicely for Luke having to defeat them both. Rey turning to the Dark Side or atleast becoming Grey is basically the only thing that TLJ could have done to make her compelling or interesting. Are you excited for the next movie where she easily bests Kylo in a duel? Maybe she loses a hand? That's about the risk they'll take with the Sequel characters.
#metoo
Jesus christ now this is cringe posting
Hyperspace ramming doesn't break the setting at all. It's wildly impractical. One cruiser cut a slightly bigger ship in half. It didnt even kill everyone on board. That's not the same as golf balls killing planets or whatever else. By the logic of Holdo's attack, you'd need a Mercury sized mass to cut an Earth sized mass in two. Which is more costly than flying an asteroid at low speeds into a planet and causing an extinction event
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>One cruiser cut a slightly bigger ship in half.
Snoke's ship wasn't "slightly bigger" than the rebel ship that destroyed it. The rebel ship that took it out appeared appreciably smaller than the Star Destroyers which were completely dwarfed by Snoke's ship.
It turns out the answer is when it looks to everyone like she's leading them to their deaths with no explanation
I wonder how these people think orders are passed down the chain of command? Are captains just supposed to read the admiral/general's mind?
Brilliant just straight brilliant.
Excellent summary
>6. Hyperspace ramming as elaborated in detail elsewhere invalidates the entire franchise.
and i came
There's a Humphrey Bogart movie about relinquishing the command of a superior officer for the lives of everyone onboard a ship. I suggest he watch it.
Turns out, when you want to prevent a mutiny.
Doin' good work, user.
Is there a way to archive this beautiful post? Just brilliant.
You sure showed me
Thank you OP. Yes, TLJ sucked because it was a shitty, terrible movie. Not because of any stupid politics its makers may or may not have held. Literally who gives a shit the movie makes no fucking sense and has the plot of fan fiction.
I think that's a pretty solid counter-argument to that point.
yes
>slightly bigger ship
The Supremacy was signficantly larger than her cruiser and the blast fragged the entire fleet behind it.
>Its like, ok you invented the first military usage of gunpowder, its not going to fuck world history lol.
It's more like all warships have been floating around with nuclear reactors for centuries and no one thought to weaponize them until a strong independent womyn figured out one simple trick to magically make them undergo the kind of fission you see in actual weapons.
TLJ is somehow worse than TFA, even though TFA gave us this absolute shit:
Funny because it was Poe's plan that lead to people dying, not Holdo's. If he had trusted his leadership, more of the Resistance would have lived. Notice Poe only lead his mutiny after he found out about the transports
Beautiful. Can somebody archive this?
It absolutely breaks the setting because it is unstoppable and you can bisect and destroy any capital ship up to and including a Death Star using an X-Wing or an asteroid hooked up to a hyperdrive. The cost effectiveness of this hyperspace missile strategy makes building any capital ship (i.e. Star Destroyers) pointless.
If we applied real life physics to this (yes, a fallacy, I know,) even an X-Wing moving at 99% of the speed of light would impact with the energy of over 10,000 50-megaton bombs. Once you start introducing relativistic weapons, nothing is capable of competing.
I want to agree with you, but I don't feel the Canto Blight section really added any worldbuilding. We learned some mundane stuff - that parking violations exist in Star Wars. That Casinos basically operate the same way as they do in our world (compare to Episode III's water dancing / ballet which was dramatically different). And that weapons dealers sell weapons. Although I wonder why the FO can afford the good stuff while the Resistance can't considering they're going to the same guy.
I appreciate what you're saying about letting a scene "breathe" and believe me the sequels need that - but Canto doesn't do that. It's basically fast paced the entire time they're there.
Wookiepedia has the stats, so you're right that it is significantly larger. But you'd need to calculate the mass to get an accurate idea. It's still wildly impractical