Is there a legitimate reason this guy is so fucking out of his mind crazy?

Is there a legitimate reason this guy is so fucking out of his mind crazy?

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So imagine you're a huge fanboy for someone from the past and you invent time travel just to meet them.

And then you get there and find out history says they murdered you.

Well the current angle is something like this.

Imagine the most incredible person you can, idol or lover doesn't matter. Just think of your perfect person.
Now imagine reading a book from the future which says you not only become an absolutely abhorrent asshole but said perfect person hates you because of it.
>Well I'll just stop it from happening
You can't, now that you've read it a paradox would entail from the information existing without the events playing out. You absolutely must/will become an abhorrent asshole to have ever come across that future evaluation and the person you admired/loved absolutely must/will detest you. There is nothing you can do about this, however you can make it so you can slightly influence things that have and must happen ever so slightly. After all just how much of a detestable abhorrent asshole you can be is left to interpretation so long as the beginning and end points remain reasonably the same.

imagine if Sonic was real, and Chris-chan discovered that he is destined to be the one to murder him, but he doesn't discover this until after he'd gotten his hands on the chaos emeralds to try and be more like sonic

>and find out history says they murdered you.
Forgot that part, yeah on top of everything else you're going to die painfully at the hate filled hands of your shining beacon.

Depends on timeline.

This is the post-Crisis explanation, for example.

Pre-Crisis, he just considered Barry a loser for not using his powers for self interest. He also really, really wanted to bone Iris (and one time, the Black Canary), and when she refused he went all vibrating hand on her.

Oh and to be clear, that's not actually Thawne's history OP I'm just contextualizing it for someone normal to grasp the emotional weight of even if they don't have access to time travel but could somehow come across some sort of prophet book or something.

Thawne is actually from the distant future so he has access to all sort of weird shit and DC history that allows his actual story to be really weird.

>There is nothing you can do about this, however you can make it so you can slightly influence things that have and must happen ever so slightly.
I mean, unless you create your own dark version of the Speed Force that allows you to rewrite past however you want and exist outside of the need for Barry, making so that if he wants to correct your changes to the timeline (like retroactively killing his mother) HE'D be the one creating temporal booms and whatnot.

Speed Force and Time Travel, two illogical things that go illogically well together.

Is this like Terminator where Flash will murder him BECAUSE he became an evil speedster and fucked up Flash's life because he discovered Flash was going to murder him?

Well that's the paradox. The reason Barry murders Thawne is Thawne kills Iris.

None of which would've happened if Thawne never time traveled at all. But he did, so it did...which changes history.

And the very first place Thawne ever visited when he went back in time was a point after Barry killed him. So now that event is changed so that he can read about his own death at Barry's hands.

Thawne accidentally retconned his own motivations, escalating the cause of his hate from "Iris stalker" to "pre-emptive revenge for his death that's destined to happen but hasn't yet"

And because the Speed Force is an afterlife with a revolving door (as most afterlives in comics are), Thawne can come back from the dead, which changes his motivations AGAIN. He no longer has to fear dying at Barry's hands...but now he and Barry have all this history so it escalates his hate even further.

So really, the reason Eobard hates Barry is because through time paradoxes he turned himself into a perpetual motion machine of bitterness.

yes

Yes. Yes it is.

don't forget Thawne can't kill Barry otherwise he would erase himself from existence

He is a fanboy

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This is your brain.

This is your brain on speed force.

So most of it was already summed up, but here's tidbit, with the relevant parts repeated from earlier.

>Flash is your biggest hero growing up
>You want to be the Flash
>You dedicate your life to researching him, so that you may recreate his powers within yourself
>You accomplish this, in the hopes of becoming just like him
>You are so proud, you figure the best way to celebrate, would be to find a way back in time to when the Flash lived
>Go a bit too late, figure out in a Flash Museum that the identity of the the Reverse Flash, the one person who was an unchangeable constant in Flash's life was you all along
>Try to deny it, try to take on the Flash's mantle instead
>It goes belly up eventually, and you have to face the fact that instead of becoming the hero you have always been, and being able to proudly tell your childhood idol that you've fought tooth and nail, and maybe just maybe have them acknowledge you for your effort; instead of that, you are the single greatest point of scorn in your idol's life, someone they hate with all their heart
And here's the real kicker:
>You're stuck with this role
>You can't just ignore the Flash, go back to your time and be a Hero like you wanted. You can't just move on with your life and become someone else, not caring what the Flash thinks of you
>You MUST be the Reverse Flash. Someone has to be, and only you CAN be
>If you don't, you create a paradox, you'll never exist, maybe worse
>The very existence of your idol has trapped you in a Catch 22. You can't not dedicate yourself to the opposite of what you always dreamed of doing, because then the version of the Flash you knew would never have existed, and neither would you
>The Flash, by simply existing robbed you of choice. He robbed you of the ability to decide your destiny
>You have nigh-unlimited power, and you can't do anything BUT be the man who The Flash is destined to destroy

That is what it means, to be Eobard Thawne.
Naturally retcons

Yeah, that's a good way to sum it up.

the fucker retconned his life

Silver Age: He really ENJOYED being a criminal and despised Barry for trying to use his powers altruistically. Pic related is Zoom trying to sound like a New York gangster after watching too many movies about them.

Bronze Age: He wanted to take Barry's place as the husband of Iris and run a heroin drug ring in the 20th century, because the 25th century allowed for little to no crime.

Dark Age: This is where "Barry's biggest fan" thing comes from. He originally traveled to Wally West's time, both trying to look LIKE Barry and wanting to be Barry's friend, only to find out in the Flash Museum that he was Barry's greatest enemy, and the one person he killed. Zoom tried to convince himself he was the real Barry all along, but eventually got sent back to the future by Wally, losing memories of his travel through time, but being left with the unexplained hatred of the Flash.

Post-Blackest Night: Resurrected Eobard rewrites his own backstory, making himself an orphan, trying (and failing) to score, making himself the most respected professor and the Flash of the 25th century. His new self still eventually goes careless with his Flash powers and is stopped by the arrival of a time traveling Barry. Zoom figures out he can change the timeline however he wants, but can't erase Barry BEFORE he becomes the Flash. So he makes Bar's childhood miserable and kills his mom.

New 52: Instead of Eobard being the biggest fan of Barry, he's the only "generic" person living in a world of Flash fans. With laws based on the Flash's deeds and Temples to the Flash. His dad kills his mom, Eobard is considered a disappointment to the Flash-made society because of that. And then he gets Zoom powers, takes over the world, but everybody keeps rebelling in the name of the Flash. Zoom decides to change the past and goes way back to the 16th century, lives through many lifetimes, eventually gathering his own cult of Acolytes and, closer to the 21st century, kills Barry's mother.

>New 52
Wat?

I'd be pretty surprised if this didn't somehow circle back to a previous Thawne showing up also somehow outside the Rebirth cycle because why the fuck not, only to mock and replace this Zoom.

No.

He actually lost memory of the "Barry's going to kill me" part after he got sent back to the future for the first time. He was just left with unexplained hatred for the Flash.

It's only after being resurrected as a White Lantern that he managed to become more powerful than ever and figured out the unknown secrets of the Speed Force allowing him to review his and Barry's personal timelines and change them accordingly.

In said "revised" timeline (seen in the "Reverse-Flash Rebirth" issue - old Rebirth, not current Rebirth) Eobard became the Flash of the 25th century, but eventually got drunk on power, caused havoc, got stopped by the arriving Barry Allen from the past. That started their rivalry in the post-BN timeline.

Prior to that, both Bronze Age and Dark Age variations of Zoom, even though they got somewhat different characterization, all implied that his very first Silver Age backstory would eventually become canon (the one where he steals the uniform while Barry goes for the atomic bomb accidentally sent into the future - in the revised timeline, Barry arrived much later after Eobard got the uniform, and he also used it in the unaltered red version for a time).

He eventually managed to get around that fact, but Thomas Wayne killed him before he could abuse it.

Don't worry about Nu52 Thawne. He was magically replaced by old school Eobard because Superdad has been accidentally unravelling some of the things Flashpoint changed.

...That's what just happened. Zoom got his New Earth memories (and look) back, along with Barry (so they remember all their old battles, even though in New 52 Zoom actually FOUGHT Barry in just one arc).

He still seems to have some of the Acolyte memories though, as he wanted to make Barry into his own Acolyte.

He still referenced the Acolytes of Zoom arc though. I guess they'll keep the best parts of both.

Kek.

Yes. Despite the self-proclaimed "Genius" status, growing up in a technological dystopian future, and having a profession that revolved around one of the greatest scientific mysteries ever known - he time-traveled like a fucking idiot. Now the first time he meets Barry is NOT the first time Barry meets him and that's the source of their rivalry. Thawne fucked up, can't admit it, and blames others for his mistakes.

I wonder, how does pic related factor into all of this? how come thawne never tried training his descendant and instead shunned him? why is Impulse a product of speed force incest???

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[bumps in reverse]

Why pick Impluse when you have Zoloman?

More RF to keep the thread alive

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Perfect

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>So really, the reason Eobard hates Barry is because through time paradoxes he turned himself into a perpetual motion machine of bitterness.
It's worth notice he's not at the level of Black Manta, yet.

we still have to see the battle between the Three Legions and Zoom's Army of 30th Century Evil Speedsters.

Acolytes seems a good way to start gathering said army.

That said, Zoom is curretly a time-anomaly... I'd like to see him and Donna interact.
Like, Donna being the one person he's completely neutral about due her being an even bigger time-anomaly.

>he's not at the level of Black Manta, yet.

>he's not at the level of Black Manta, yet

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youtube.com/watch?v=S90aRNfhYhw
>You know what I need you to do
>Yeah...but I want to hear you say it.

When Eobard will pretend to retarded to make his archenemy look bad I will consider him. Manta would give him the advise to play his future-man card right, like he played his to Aquaman so he can present Flash as a future-racist.

Read what you posted.
>pretend to retarded
>advise
and this whole sentence:
>Manta would give him the advise to play his future-man card right, like he played his to Aquaman so he can present Flash as a future-racist.

I can't understand what you're trying to say.
When Manta fans stop being this retarded I will take their opinions seriously.

in all honesty "it was me Barry" beats "i faked autism, and pretended you hate me because of my race". Still, Zoom's hate beats them both, making Flash a better hero through suffering is a special kind of love - hate relationship.

Not the Mantafag, but Zoom isn't petty if his motivations are noble and his actions have meaning.

You just don't be a bad guy.

That seems really simple.

Here you go

>With pleasure
Released some speed seed right there.

No way. Joker only kills when it's funny.

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Finally a way that makes sense

He's just petty and was subconsciously looking for a reason to supplant Barry.

All the other reasons are window dressing to obfuscate that fact.

A mentally healthy person with his powers could easily break the cycle.

This. Manta, Zoom, and Sabretooth all fall into that.

They're just petty and very crazy.

fund it

>A mentally healthy person with his powers could easily break the cycle.
Oh do go on.

>A mentally healthy person with his powers could easily break the cycle
Unrelated, but I've been on a Cheers kick lately and I can't stop reading this in Fraiser's voice.

That's not why Thawne's crazy. He doesn't even remember The Return of Barry Allen's events.

He's just a petty dick because Barry came to the future and ruined his schtick of being a petty, fake superhero.

>Thawne goes back in time to meet his hero, The Flash
>Winds up in The Flash museum some time after The Flash's death
>discovers he is the Reverse Flash
>has a meltdown, goes back further in time to find The Flash
>accidentally travels to Boston in the early 1980's
>Meets and is eventually cured of his psychosis by Dr. Fraiser Crane
I'd watch it, if only for the hope that Diane gets a vibrating hand through her head.

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Zoom is better written for me, since his motivations while twisted do make sense. he's in a comic book medium, villains of the week are everywhere, and making the hero tougher might save more lives.
Thawne is also comic book villain to the extreme. He can do anything except kill the hero. His stories are baout working around that. You know he'll return at some point, since he is a time abomination, all the arguments about prisons become meaningless.
Manta was deal the shorter stick. He can't kill Aquaman, cause Aquaman is his reason to live. Ye when Aquaman vanished, he worked in a fish shop. There is that Squad comic, when he has techlology to envision everyone as Aquaman, but you know it's fake. Thawne has one constant - he can't kill the Flash. Manta won't kill Aquaman. Zolomon is on another level - he wants to remake the Flash in his image.
And that's why Zoom is better. Also his power set makes him much more fun than Thawne. I do love Eobard too, he just isn't Zoom.

I think we're gonna need a drawfag on this.

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I see, you're not saying Zoom is pettier than Thawne but that you find he is written best of the characters you've mentioned.

Did I get it right this time?

Dr Wells Thawne was so fucking based. This episode is his best one too.

Exactly, Zolomon's brand of craziness is easily the most interesting among them. I'd say he is one of the best villains in comic medium period, but for pettiness my pick would be Manta, mostly because his reason to hate is obscured. He just does it. I could understand Thawne, or Zoom but Manta's dedication is almost Zen - like.

A shame show couldn't keep up that quality.

IT WAS ME SONIC, I CARVED MY PICKLE INTO CHINA

They got ambitious, which isn't a bad thing - but when you get ambitious and fail it's easy to find the flaws (I'm looking at YOU, Gorilla City!).

I prefer these types of shows to try rather than get scared and rehash the same ideas and effects over and over.

I would 100% watch/read this

Fuck. I really miss those last-half-dozen-epsiodes-of-the-first-seaon-of-The-Flash.

watched to halfway of season 2, how bad did the show went after?

Black Manta/Reverse Flash team up when? Their pettiness and spite could fuel the stars.

Barry gives his powers to Zoom, tries to get them back by replicating the reaction, blew up, and was transported to the Speedforce. Vibe and Iris got him out with his powers and he started acting like Speedforce Jesus. Zoom killed his dad which made Barry stop being Speedforce Jesus and focus on Zoom. Zoom was then going to use Barry's speed to help him kickstart the "Crisis - Red Skies" event, but Barry went back in time and convinced his time remnant to sacrifice himself while Real!Barry stopped Zoom. It ended with Time Wraiths taking Zoom away and making him Black Flash, and Barry went back in time and saved his mom.

Season 3 started with Flash living in this Diet Flashpoint timeline.

is based Thawne dead (Legends of Tomorrow) or can he still return?

Black Manta was some Aquaman villain?

I'd like to see Zoom join up with either the Fatal Five or the Legion of Supervillains if he's ever in a LOS story.

He can return. He always does.

[bumps in reverse]

he's a living paradox now right?

Nothing to do with it. The first season just had a spec script outline a solid story for them. As soon as they moved past that original, very worked on plan and started having to hit deadlines it went to trash because there's not a lot of good writing talent on their crew.

He had his heart ripped out by black flash

Well he is dead now? Being a paradox is fine but manhattan still smacked him across the face wotg his blue dong

that new 52 origin sucks ass

its everyday now with these threads

why is x evil?

what is his problem?

seriously just go read a comic book or google it if you cant be assed to

>scary helicopter noises

>we still have to see the battle between the Three Legions and Zoom's Army of 30th Century Evil Speedsters.

wait, when was that even referenced last?
I remember it mentioned in Legion of Three Worlds
hope springs eternal, but I don't think they will bring up a ten year old plot point connected to a continuity clusterfuck which has been rendered moot by at least two reboots

They do whatever they want with time and physics in the CWverse, so if they want him back they'll bring him back.

is the Return of Barry Allen the only great Thawne story?
it might just be me, but I haven't found any of his other apperances all that good
it's sorta fascinating how I (and most of Sup Forums) love him as a concept and a character, yet he doesn't have any great comics

It's an easy conversation starter. What would you rather talk about?

Am I missing something? Couldn't he have just let her the fuck go here and gotten right away?