Okay, Without triggering the Mods here.
We NEED to have a serious discussion on what is happening within Marvel Comics at this time.
For the past YEAR it has been fully co-opted by people like Nick Spencer to turn it into a Idealogical neo-progressive shovelware shitshow with only the movies doing anything good. How has Sup Forums been dealing with this replacement theory come true?
Other urls found in this thread:
theatlantic.com
twitter.com
The issue isn't diversity, fans embraced Kamala.
The issue isn't politics, because the best Cap runs were grounded in issues of the day.
The issue is the writing is SHIT and the editorial mandates are SHIT.
Pretty sure we can bitch openly about Marvel. We have a long open bitching thread about Marvel every few days and there's practically a new one once the latest comics come out.
I beg to differ. Prime example is new Iron man. Figuratively speaking, stark is a fucking hologram and it's about a narcissistic black millenial girl who is suppose to be smarter THEN STARK yet pulls a "clock boy" all wile in the back the 23 yr old assistant editor decides to check some older fans privileges because supposedly it's sexist to question the narrative. We also have captain marvel and Captain "anti America hail hydra" and Black Panther and Crew aka Racist storm. The list goes on and on. There is more to it then just MUH WRITING.
Though it is an issue too
ITS THE FUCKING AGENDA,
I think this really sums up the issues quite nicely
theatlantic.com
>fans embraced Kamala.
They embraced her out of white guilt.
there is a decent youtuber called diversity & Comics who reviews new marvel comics and it is so hard to go through due to how BAD shit is now in marvel.
Can anyone here that SECRET WARS #1 was literal cancer? Nick Spencer just hates us as fans in my opinion
>turning one of the most open, accepting heroes in the entire brand into a fascist monster
>progressive
I'm not sure you know what that means.
Yeah, what we need is another thread talking about how Marvel is shit and how do we save it and they should definitely reboot.
We haven't had any of those in at least six hours.
They turned captain america, essentially speaking, a symbol for patriotism and freedom into a permanently hypocritical nazi. It's neo-progressive as the ideals of americanism and capitalism IS anti-progressive.
Neo-progressive is the idea that extreme leftism is the best solution to society so things like American patriotism is essentially evil or bad and neo-progressive types will normally equate Things they do not like Idealogically to Nazism.
I.e Antifa, Anarcho-communists, Californian's etc.
It's very prominent in multiple entertainment and media areas right now for obvious reasons.
I don't care about marvel anymore desu, DC is doing gangbusters with the rebirth watchmen series so I'm good
Damn straight
Comics have and always will have a general liberal bent. It's never going to go away and you don't get to pretend it never existed just because you're triggered by modern liberalism.
yeah well.... your movie still suck!
>How has Sup Forums been dealing with this replacement theory come true?
by accepting marvel died with Secret Wars and continue reading classics
Not completely accurate but I can see what you mean. Most comics usually do with exceptions to DC comics and Vertigo and Dark Horse. Marvel has always had a very hard liberal leaning though
I never read Secret Wars but people reference it as the death to marvel ALOT. What's the TLDR of it exactly?
>tfw dont give a shit about Marvels diversity push nor DC's milking of old ideas
the big 2 are both shells of their former selves clamoring for their old glory days
its best to just expand your horizon beyond capeshit
Communists hate progressives though. Progressivism is a liberal ideology which dictates slow, gradual change, as opposed to the radical revolutionary change preferred by communists.
DC has been pretty liberal too, just not as much as Marvel.
I don't give a shit that the new Iron Man is a black girl. I'm just pissed that her character is "This sucks! I'm too smart and too talented and I'm getting too many opportunities in life!"
>tfw every Communist you've met in real life has always been an upper-class white kid who could easily get a comfy stress-free job anywhere but chooses not to
False on so many levels.
Communists hate liberals. Neo-progressive people ARE the revolutionaries
>The book was about the entire multiverse dying down one by one
>in the end the only ones left are 616 and Ultimate
>they both crash into each other and explode
>thats the end for the universe that ran since F4 in 1961 up until 2015
Holy shit wtf were they thinking? Who wrote it?
I too get all my definitions from libertywhip dot com, the most trusted political philosopher in America.
Hickman.
To be honest, Secret Wars is the least shitty Marvel event though, even if that's not saying much.
>Can anyone here that SECRET WARS #1 was literal cancer?
Man, what? Secret Wars #1 was the best thing about that event. Watching the Ultimate Universe rain down hell was satisfying as fuck.
It can be summed up with shit writing, shit writers and shit editors though. I don't think people who genuinely care for diversity and minority representation want bullshit in their comic. Like nobody (except maybe some faggots) is asking that the newest black book from Marvel should demonize the whiteys or shit like that. That's author's personal political stand, you can't blame diversity for that.
Also these kind of "diversity books" don't even make up the 5% of total output. user, Marvel is putting out upwards of 80 books a month. These books are not representative of their general output or their approach to publication. However if you still want to blame diversity, I would kindly ask you to fuck off back to Sup Forums, Sup Forums, Sup Forums, Reddit or whatever shithole you came from.
Huh, it's funny because I think I saw this EXACT comment somewhere else but instead of "neo-progressive" it was "alt-right fascist."
>Without triggering the Mods here
>thread goes Sup Forums
OP...
But you are conflating classical liberalism with Neo-progressivism. One is what you'd equate George Orwell too or Thomas Jefferson. The other you'd equate Fidel Castro too or fucking Chaffez. Do you get it yet? One of these things is not like the other m8
Nick Spencer, like Aaron Diaz, is hated equally across the entire political spectrum.
No one is talking about hanging minorities or gassing people user. Stop false flagging
There needs to be a containment general for all the fuck marvel shitflinging going around.
Meh, can't win em' all.
Then explain why I embraced her. I don't have any white guilt. I literally can't.
Liberalism is a broad tent. The average modern Californian may not be a classic liberal in the same mold as Jefferson, but they're still a liberal.
The people you're talking about are leftists, though. "Neo-progressive" is a made up term used be nobody except you and the fine folks at libertywhip.com. You can just call them leftists and continue to hate them, it's okay.
What you said doesn't disprove what said at all.
It's still shit writing (Bendis) and even shittier editorial. A good writer wouldn't be so hamfisted with introducing a new character, or so stupid about shitting all over an established character to make their OC look better. Good editorial would rein that shit in instead on encouraging or ignoring it.
What you're complaining about--forced diversity, virtue signalling, pandering to a non-existent audience at the expense of the old readers--are just symptoms. The disease goes all the way up to the top.
Marvel refuses to acknowledge this, let alone do anything about it. Instead, they blame their established readership for not wanting to read the shit they're trying to peddle, like it's our fault their product sucks.
Until Marvel can acknowledge what their real issues are, they'll only keep getting worse.
You can't have a serious discussion because all people want to do is REEEE at the idea of brown people rather than the execution of the ideas.
The actual problem with modern Marvel is it's run by liberals like Spenser who like tokenistic diversity because it's easy and bolsters their social status, but who tremble at the thought of real structural change. What we need to do is get some Marxists in.
>We're going full Sup Forums
MODS!
Okay, but real talk for a second. How is Tony Stark anything but narcissistic wish fulfillment for white men?
There's nothing wrong with a character who is just "the smartest person in the world." We didn't see Iron Man go to Standford and "earn" his intelligence.
We're seeing an unfortunate way interplay between:
1. Marvel courting new demos who have shown themselves through the MCU to be interested in their properties but reluctant to buy the comics
2. The market's historic inability to support new characters that are not linked to pre-existing properties
3. Event/character death fatigue
Marvel deserves blame for 3 and the market continues to prove the point on 2 (I mean it's not like Sup Forums was super supportive of Mosaic) but 1 throws gasoline on the fire of everything else because the larger traditional market seems to feel either isolated OR feeling out of sync with the properties/tropes they accept when those characters are "traditional." Just saying.
OP is a false flagging faggot.
Ironic shitposting is still shitposting.
Shitty Sup Forums bait.
Shitty Sup Forums bait.
Ironic Sup Forums bait.
Dumb frogposter.
False flagging faggot OP.
Dumb Sup Forumstard or Sup Forumsedditor.
There, now if you're done having your healthy discussion reached the points you wanted to, fuck off and kill yourself.
Define where we are politically incorrect
So you know that Liberalism has different sub-sec groups that identify as different spectrums of the left yet you believe the term "neo-progressive" is almost fake and imply you've never seen or heard it. I'm sorry but people like Dr. J. Peterson would like a word with you then on what you think it actually means.
Would you rather it be called PostModernism? Neo-Marxism? Facist-leftism? These are also terms used often. Again user, I don't see how you think that there are multitude of liberal subsecs i.e broad tent but neo-progressive do not exist. Hell they even have a rocknroll genre.
The very idea of needing to purchase any commodity is an unacceptable deviation from Marxist-Leninist thought.
>how is Tony stark not a narcissistic white male!?
Now let's change those last three words to "Filthy Dirty Jew" and let's see why you sound so fucking bigoted user. This anti-white nonsense is overboard
My armchair philosophers
I would like it to be called "leftism", as that is its name.
>>/buzzwords/
Then we are broad stroking leftism now aren't we? Let's just call a spade a spade and use the terms for the specific groups correctly rather calling all leftists commies or facists.
That's why we are being specific user.
>The issue isn't diversity, fans embraced Kamala.
One example of acceptance out of dozens received in hatred doesn't clear "diversity." While I haven't read a ton of Kamala, she is unique for a couple of reasons. 1) She didn't replace Ms. Marvel. She took the name, sure, but Carol still exists and rose to higher profile as Capt. Marvel. 2) Carol shit all over herself, Kamala didn't do that. 3) Kamala didn't spend a lot of time running around screaming "muh evil whites."
All the other diversity Characters replaced their white Progenators, shit all over them by going "wez betta dan dems cuz colaz," and shit on them in one way or another.
>The issue isn't politics, because the best Cap runs were grounded in issues of the day.
Yes, some of the best Cap runs (and others) were based on issues of the day. But unlike the Cap runs, which tried to take a less biased look, or say Green Lantern/Green Arrow which presented both sides of the argument rather fairly, the present trend is BELIEVE WHAT WE TELL YOU IS RIGHT OR YOUR A FUCKING NAZI, YOU STUPID FUCKING CUNTS!
>The issue is the writing is SHIT and the editorial mandates are SHIT.
Well, you're not wrong. Both of the above are due to editorial mandates and writing being shit. But you're ignoring the shit they're doing even as you proclaim what they're doing is shit.
>wahh I don't understand in depth analysis go to other boards wahh!
Lol
Just reading the posts in this thread, and you can see what's the problem with current Marvel. Marvel by bringing all this political controversy bullshit, they practically fucked up the entire cape comic industry.
And Sup Forums embraced her because MUH DICK and waifufaggotry.
This
rather have shitty movies and good comics, to be honest.
This, the talent pool for Marvel is just shit right now.
OP is a moron, Marvel is and always has been about progressive stories and characters--I mean look at fucking X-Men. What we see now is just the modern take on it.
With better writers, their problems would be solved.
Diversity is a problem because its done in a pandering way. Diversity should be no more than an incidental thing.
yeah, but the problem isn't "being liberal." It's being fair while being liberal that makes DC better than Marvel. DC isn't shitting on people for not being liberal enough, and they aren't radically changing characters to be something they're not.
Sure, Green Arrow is a flat out SJW...but he was that before SJW's existed. But Superman has not turned into a rainbow haired gay man who hates america.So it's all pretty fair.
You need a reality check if peoples differing opinions triggers you this much and you have to dismiss everyone as some kind of shitposter and prevent any kind of real discussion from happening.
No, Marvel fucks up the cape industry with it's shitty business practices.
Price rises far beyond inflation.
Rebooting ongoings over and over for #1's.
Ridiculously convoluted variant bullshit.
Doing events again and again.
They crashed the comics industry perfectly fine without politics before, they can do it again without that help.
And respectively, they made GREAT spin offs of superman as a communist(red son) and a dictator(injustice). It was tasteful and tied in perfectly.
shut up, this is no where near Sup Forums
Let's be honest, the fans read X-Men because it's superhero soap opera. The people that read X-Men, cared more about who is going to fuck Jean Grey or Emma Frost, instead of any political message about the franchise.
>in depth analysis
Nigger, I wrote more "in depth analysis" about these things in fucking 8th grade.
She's not even hot either. There's no tits or ass on that girl.
> Diversity should be no more than an incidental thing.
That argument is worthless because no matter what people will scream that it's pandering. Setting up arbitrary rules on when people should be diverse and when they shouldn't is bullshit and we've gotten pat the point where people are going to accept that as an excuse.
It's no different then the "It's not the time and place for this." excuse. It's racism/sexism in a nicer, more appealing wrapper.
Yeah, take a look at the difference between their diversity characters.
While he's the Chinese Superman, Kenan isn't presented as someone to look up to. He's a jerk with parent issues, and he needs constant mentoring to get him to be even a fraction of what Clark is like. Plus, he's written by someone with a long history of writing comics about Chinese life.
While America Chavez is presented as this paragon that everybody should look up to no matter what she does. And she's written by someone who has no fucking idea what Hispanic life is like.
...
Exactly this
I consider anything after Secret Wars to be an elseworlds story
>ad hominid with a buzzword to get mods to shut down discuss
Grade A bait I see.
Yeah you'd know all about it Sup Forumsack, won't you?
First post best post
No,he isnt, and he was wrote by a Socialist that was educated before americans got to the point of thinking racism is a right wing thing.
Green Arrow was a contracultural anarchist. Not a SJW.
You are retarded. Diversity should be result of storytelling needs. If you need a story set in brazil have a brazillian character, If the character comes from China he can be chinese, if the character if a city is mostly nig characters from thart city will be nigs.
Diversity should never be about shades of brown, a nigger that listens to hip hop and yet it's really smart isnt diversity, especially if he is american-
First batwing = diversity
Second batwing = pandering
>Reddit linebreak
You have to go back.
>only the movies doing anything good.
>marvel movies
>good
This.
I never read for the politics, I read for the costumes and the waifus.
Oh boy ya got me :^)
Contrarians belong on Reddit.
...
>I don't have any white guilt. I literally can't.
Yes you can. You're just suffering from internalized oppression.
>newfag detected.
>underage detected
Sup Forums isnt a single person
some embraced, some didnt
there are people that will embrace and accept whatever you throw at them, there are people that will complain even if you do what they tell
we cant take those as an example and say everybody behaves like that
>no matter what people will scream that it's pandering.
So why is no one screaming pandering for Simon Baz? Jessica Cruz? Kenan Kong? Ryan Choi? Jaime Reyes?
Your argument falls apart because yes, it DOES matter HOW diversity is handled. And Marvel does it wrong. Plain and simple.
>cancer detected.
... aw baby. I just said that there was nothing wrong with it.
But if you get triggered when only a certain kind of person gets to be the smartest, I don't know what to say about you... some characters are wish fulfillment. That in and of itself is not an issue. Some people seem to notice it more when the person doing all the cool things doesn't look like them, though. And then you'd think that Tony Stark was walkong being constantly crippled by his flaws, humble and being humbled constantly... just like black and female characters should be.
This guy gets it. Thanks for fighting the good fight. I lurk mostly but I also know that only that keeps this place from becoming Sup Forums is when reasonable people challenge that kind of stuff.
>theatlantic.com
>insightful, well written, well researched, nuanced look at the state of Marvel Comics, the history of where it's from and how that informed where it is today
>I'M NOT READING THAT! MARVEL IS SHIT BECAUSE IT OFFENDS ME! THIS Sup Forums MSPAINT GRAPHIC PROVES ME RIGHT RRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
This board deserves shit comics and a shit comic book industry.
First post best post
>he thinks there was so screaming over Simon Baz and Jamie Reyes when they came out
samefag, 1st post was shit and you can tell by the answers destroying it
Holy shit the projection is real
But user it already sucked 8 years ago.
Nice meme. You know why no one is screaming now? Because the book handles diversity well. DC never tried to anger bait its readers into a shitstorm to get attention. It's also a well written book on it's own.
Everyone ITT needs to kill themselves.
Here's the thing about political commentary in fiction: If you have to resort to a blatant parody or caricature of your targeted belief or politician of choice in order to get your point across, then you either need to go back to the drawing board or consider a career elsewhere, such as managing a Denny's.
start with yourself