So Nick really is starting to crack with how SE is flopping, huh?

So Nick really is starting to crack with how SE is flopping, huh?

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twitter.com/nickspencer/status/853086969986859008
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Why is he still standing with the WGA they didn't do anything

Good. Marvel's taken too many risks that flopped super hard.

What they need is to play it safe for a year or two and try again without repeating the mistakes of the past.

Why does everyone hate with such force Secret Empire other than event fatigue? It seems like a decent story by itself. Moviefags and casuals seem obvious but what about the comic readers? It's not like Cap is gonna be evil forever.

pull spencer from captain america and put him on Irredeemable Ant-Man
oh and delete his twitter account

bam, there you go marvel

The collective unconscious is having an ideological seizure right now.

because it isn't actually a decent story. It's structured around being as clickbait-y as possible, and the narrative contorts itself end-over-end both to absolve Cap of being a true villain and to actually progress the plot.

also Nick Spencer is a twat

Some people hate the Nazi Cap concept. Some people are fatigued by events. Some people are upset at how it interrupts books that they like. Some people are upset at the possible "Real Cap" reveal removing the central conflict by issue 2. Some people hate Spencer because he's an outspoken ass. The most remarkable thing about SE is that there's something for everyone to hate. I've never seen anything like it.

He's probably starting to realize that Alonso is going to throw him under the bus when secret empire ends.

no one at marvel should be allowed on twitter anymore

Because it's like most Marvel events, the solicits and marketing were misleading, but they threw their secret card out for everyone to see in the second issue.

I don't think they took risks I think they misunderstood or incorrectly perceived a change in the market that turned out to be a huge exaggeration at best.

It sold less than Batman and Flash.

>Civil War II #0 (Marvel) - 177,283
>Secret Empire #0 (Marvel) - 162,718

>Batman #21 Lenticular Ed. (DC) - 130,216
>Batman #21 (DC) - 89,256
>Total - 219,472

>Flash #21 Lenticular Ed. (DC) - 107,037
>Flash #21 (DC) - 67,766
>Total - 174,803

Why didn't you protect his smile, Sup Forums?

WHY?!!!!

>and put him on Irredeemable Ant-Man

I'd definitely buy that. Spencer obviously likes Eric O'Grady, and his run on Superior Foes of Spider-Man is both qualitatively and tonally exactly what I'd want an Irredeemable Ant-Man series to be. That would be pretty awesome.

>the button is good
>secret empire is a piece of shit
Really makes you think

>Why didn't you protect his smile, Sup Forums?
He took away mine

The Button was pretty mediocre after the first issue

He didn't even have the balls to make Steve blow up Las Vegas. And he made his whole story pointless by bringing in the real Steve in the second issue.

>>the button is good

It's shit. SE is also shit. Fuck off shill

>It's not like Cap is gonna be evil forever.

That's my problem with "events" beyond fatigue. It quickly returns to normal immediately there after. In their panic over the outrage of Nazi Cap they Marvel has flat out said things will return to normal. I know we all knew that to begin with, that attitude or business practice that has spread out from just deaths into almost any major happening having no consequences really. What's the point of it? Nothings changed, relationships aren't strained, what's the difference between this in universe event and some elseworld or well produced fanfic?

>He didn't even have the balls to make Steve blow up Las Vegas
that backpedal should've been obvious when Jack Flag was first conveniently only in a coma then conveniently taken off life support so Cap wouldn't be a cold-blooded killer.

Just a threadly reminder, when secret empire outsells DC's lineup again this month, DC fags will shitpost and cry and deflect same as every month Marvel beats them. Also "muh trades tho"

>again
lol

Let's gather together and laugh. AHAH-

Other than event fatigue, it's just not fun. It's miserable and condescending. Injustice is fun because characters still feel like DC characters. SE is Spencer's political commentary on how he sees America, not a story happening in the Marvel universe. The latest Cap issue was verbatim of most Trump speeches.

>again

But didn't you hear what Spencer said, user???!!!!

This story matters! The stakes are huge! Heroes are didvided! The Marvel universe won't be the same!!!

See

>again
user I...

Event fatigue and a general refusal to buy into Brevoort's outrage machine

It's different people hating on it.

The MCU fans or the people who don't follow comics that much don't want to read it because they believe Marvel decided to turn Captain America into a Nazi.

The longtime readership that actually knows what's going on is not interested because they were burned by Civil War 2 or by Marvel's prices. Some retailers were reporting event fatigue. Other longtime fans have been put off by Marvel's treatment of their fans.

There were also people turned off by how Spencer conducted himself on Twitter. A lot of people that do comic-related stuff don't want to support him.

I mean the comic is not terrible compared to a lot of Marvel events in the last... I dunno, five to ten years. But at the same time its messages are mixed and it's not helping the situation.

I do have to agree with Nick Spencer on something he said about Twitter:

twitter.com/nickspencer/status/853086969986859008

"It's kind of jaw-dropping to step back and look at how this site has degraded and destroyed the global conversation. It's a straight line."

Ironically, I think he's part of that problem, too.

>I Stand with the WGA
The World Canadian Bureau?

>other than event fatigue
Do we need another reason?

the worst part about Nick Spencer's twitter is his complete lack of self-awareness

The problem is that their idea of playing it safe is constant #1's and events

>Posts dozens of tweets daily to the tune of over 31,000 tweets in total.
>Extremely snide and confrontational anyone he disagrees with or questions him.
>Reach a tipping point and gets majorly confronted about his work after being put at the big summer event.
>"Man, Twitter is such a shit service. Everyone here is so mean. I can't believe people use this so much."

amazingcavalieri.blogspot.com/2017/05/a-primer-on-nick-spencers-shitty.html

>If you poke around the materials surrounding Nick Spencer’s failed political career for long enough, you’ll notice that when he touts his leadership in the community, he talks about “rebuilding” (i.e., gentrifying) Over-the-Rhine, the Cincinnati neighborhood where he lived and worked. Over-the-Rhine was of course at the center of the Cincinnati riots of 2001, which followed the acquittal of the white police officer who murdered Timothy Thomas, an unarmed black teenager. The riots left a big impression on Spencer–not as a symbol of racial inequity in his city, but for their economic impact on Over-the-Rhine (both in terms of property damage during the riots themselves, and the boycott of downtown businesses that followed). Economic prosperity was an important issue to Spencer, who (along with some other guys) owned an Over-the-Rhine bar called alchemize (lowercase a), where he used to spin tunes once a month under the moniker of DJ Nick.

>In his writings, Spencer frequently attributed all the lawlessness and blight he saw in the streets of Over-the-Rhine to “thugs” and “prostitutes.” This is how Spencer conceived of economic and racial disparities in the rapidly gentrifying area of downtown Cincinnati: (black) thugs and prostitutes vs. (white) business owners like him who had dedicated themselves to the virtuous cause of “revitalization” (i.e., making money). In his official campaign materials he’s careful to totally scrub these issues of any mention of race, though anyone who knows anything about broken-window policing can read between the lines easily enough. But Spencer was much more explicit about who exactly he sees as the criminal class on his blog, where he frequently let his hair down and got racist af.

Oh hey, it turns out the guy responsible for Hydra Cap has a rather extensive history of being a racist prick. Color me the exact opposite of shocked.

It's a lot of things.
>Event Fatigue
>Focus on shock value and misdirection
>Characters involved are unrecognisable compared to Marvel five years ago
>Making an event about an evil Captain America the year Kirby would turn 100 wghile Dc who he made less of an impact on does everything to celebrate him
>People not liking an evil Cap in general
>Constant renumbering and tie ins making it not enjoyable to try and read marvel anymore
>People being fed up with nick spencer shitting on anything not marvel
>The book in general being quite meh with some tie ins being more interesting just like civil war 2

Why the fuck is cronyism and lack of accountability so pervasive in cape comics?

If Nick Spencer worked in literally any other creative field he would have been shitcanned months ago but instead he hangs in there and continues to fail upwards despite being near universally despised by all types of readers. It's not like we can't afford to lose COMIC BOOK WRITERS, 90% of the people posting on this board right now would give their left nut for a minimum wage paycheck to do it.

And most of those people would write some profoundly shitty comics books.

The comics industry (especially the Big2) is full of nepotism.

And so does Nick Spencer. That's the point.

>NaziCap was Spencer all along

Hypercrisis

Secret Empire hasn't outsold Dc yet but it probably will this month since the Lazarus Contract isn't nearly as big as the button. The only reason it wont sell the most is if superman proves to sell better than it again or joker showing up in batman/ Thawne in the flash boosts their pre button sales

>Why the fuck is cronyism and lack of accountability so pervasive in cape comics?


It doesn't make any money, and no one in charge cares. Because the stakes are so low, the bosses don't hire and fire the right people and we have shitheads like Nick Spencer in charge of writing for Marvel

>Secret Empire hasn't outsold Dc yet but it probably will this month
It still got outsold by a standard Batman issue and the Superman issues are constantly nipping at it's heels.

This was close to twenty years ago, people change and it's blatantly obvious through even a cursory look at his SamCap writing or his work on The Fix that he doesn't think like that anymore. Spencers a dipshit and an asshole but the politics he held decades ago aren't the reason he's shitty.

What the readers need to finally realize is that, in a universe like Marvel's, none of the stories really matter or hold any weight.
Casuals, fuck even people on here, take these twists way too seriously. They were literally designed to get people mad, and then make you happy everything is back to normal in the end.
Last year DC said they wanted to step away from the whole forced continuity thing, and I think that's something Marvel REALLY needs to consider, especially since they don't seem to have any editors to begin with. Just focus on making good stories, enough of this "THINGS WILL NEVER BE THE SAME (until the last issue)" shit.

I agree with you that's why I mentioned batman and superman possibly selling better again as well as the possibility of flash maintaining a big audience

Even at Marveldrone Central, aka Reddit's /r/comicbooks, Secret Empire isn't doing so good.

He came up with the Hydra Cap twist which sold a ton of copies due to outrage. Marvel thought it would be a good idea to let him continue the story, but since the twist happened a year ago nobody cares anymore, rage sales aren't happening. The only reason he hasn't been kicked out yet is because Marvel needs to ride this one out until the end, since as of now the Marvel Universe is fucked. Once Secret Empires ends they'll drop him hard and push Legacy to save face.

It would be nice if for once a Marvel event actually ended with something important happening rather than a return to status quo so that we could actually take them seriously when they say things will never be the same. Look at any Dc event and by the end something big has always happened, even their crossovers recently since the new52 started usually guarantee some big to happen that changes things. When was the last time Marvel had an event/crossover/mini that by the end actually did something big and left an impact because i can't think of anything besides death of wolverine.

Writers Guild of America.
There was going to be another strike like in 2007-8 (aka the thing that killed all those shows), but a deal was made at the last minute

but he's on Captain America still in Legacy

>say something stupid on twitter
>people get angry
>obviously, this is twitter's fault
When are retards like Spencer going to realize that Twitter is not a tumblr safe space but instead a megaphone to the public?

If he wants people to stop yelling at him the insane stuff he says (like Trickle down economics for comics and constant relaunches being good). At this point, him being a FAILDED politician like makes a lot more sense now.

Wow, I knew otr was shitty, didn't know we had riots there though. Neat

House of M, Civil War, and Secret Invasion all ended with pretty major shifts to the status quo

so major that most of the events after them were about reverting those changes

>> I mean the comic is not terrible compared to.. . .

what? its not really shit when compared to mountains of shit? no. . . . its shit.

Spencer needs to just write more superior foes and shut up on twitter........

>He came up with the Hydra Cap twist which sold a ton of copies due to outrage.
Eh, by Issue 2 it already dropped 33% and has been dropping majorly ever since.

Was secret invasion the one where all the heros fought on war world thanks to Doom?

that's Secret Wars, Secret Invasion was "everyone is Skrulls"

Yes, we should punish them for trying new things.

Isn't SE huge success? Ofc it lost to Batman and Flash, but still did good numbers. Other marvel staff doesn't sell at all.

>It seems like a decent story by itself.
Absolutely, for say a 5 issue Cap story in a single book. But a major event built off of a year to get to? Not so much.
That's the sins at Marvel, they are taking really cool ideas that should be self contained to a single book/story because the moment you drag it all out to the main universe to then punch the status quo button it cheapens the comic world setting. That's what makes this get meet with such contempt, this is the 6th time (at least) that they have taken a cool idea for a single story and dragged it out as some major change all event but not really that no one wanted.

both are bad but the Button is much more self contained thus not poisoning all the books.

If Miles, Riri, and Moon Girl are new things, I'll take the old things every time.

>Isn't SE huge success?
It's the highest selling of all their titles, but selling considerably less than Civil War II which put many people off of Marvel.

>but selling considerably less than Civil War II
And Civil War 2 sold considerably less than the first Civil War.

You'd think Marvel would get the message by now.

I honestly think that competent writers could do something with Miles.
Maybe even Moon-girl. Maybe not, prolly better to make that a kids title.
Riri needs to be flushed tho.

SeeThe line ups are
Spencer-Captain America
Bendis-Miles and Iron Heart
Slott-Amazing Spider-Man (forever and ever and ever and ever and ever)
Aaron-Thor

I don't think Marvel even cares. As I understood, they make comics only for movies now. And reboot numbers to sell #1

Comic readers aren't the ones raising a stink about it. Comic readers are just sick of events and aren't buying it. General opinion is that it's "good for a Marvel event but fuck Marvel events." It's the casuals/moviefags that are going on autistic rants about how it's the single worst comic ever and is clearly blatant anti-trump/pro-nazi propaganda (depending on which side of the isle you're on.)

>Spencer needs to just write more superior foes
But he is. It's called The Fix and it's great.

>I honestly think that competent writers could do something with Miles.
Miles has had several opportunities under different writers, and no one has done anything interesting with him. In the end, there IS such a thing as bad characters. Miles was a concept that was poorly handled from the start. He's literally a black version of Spider-Man. That's all he is and will ever be.

Marvel Studios and Marvel Comics are separate.
Feige got Disney to kick Ike Pearlmutter and his irk out of the Marvel movies because they were annoying. Guardians even thanked Abnett and Lanning instead of Bendis. There's even a rumor that Feige loves showing Disney heads the news headlines showing Marvel Comics in bad light.

>He came up with the Hydra Cap twist which sold a ton of copies due to outrage.

No, the first issue sold a lot. But within a few months it was at the sales levels of Remenders' Cap, which didn't have any kind of outside media hype.

There's a number of reasons Injustice goes so well and a lot of it is down to DC comics realizing very quickly that you can't just have "DC as written by the creative team behind Mortal Kombat" slot into their main line. So they gave Netherrealm and Taylor an entire DC Comics Multiverse earth to play with and gave them a consequence free slate. They could kill off heroes who would be untouchable, write characters in a new way while keeping their core personality and do a lot of crazy shit

Marvel's editorial were retarded in that they let the concept through and run in 616 for shock value instead of saying "Hold up. Doing this in 616 is stupid. We could make our version of Red Son with this". But they wanted the clickbait and the sales and were foolish.

Spencer's an ass because he thinks his genius idea is being attacked and the plebs can't see his vision even though his vision is compromised as fuck and completely uninteresting in the 616 line.

Spencer gets way too much credit for Superior Foes and The Fix, they're carried hard by Lieber.

Wilson handled him alright when he showed up in Ms. Marvel, and he was decent in Totally Awesome Hulk even if his presence was fairly minor

Comics are a collaborative work, user.

Then there was a recent interview where Feige talked about the Marvel Studios logo:

“The very first Marvel logo that was in front of a film was on the first Spider-Man film,” Feige said of the iconic flip logo. Feige said they would make small tweaks to the flip logo as the Marvel Cinematic Universe went on, but he thought “we really needed to differentiate a film that’s based on a Marvel comic vs. a film that’s made by Marvel Studios.” As a result, Feige wanted a logo that “celebrates all the films that came before” and make clear that the movie could only be from Marvel Studios, and the new flip logo highlighting Marvel movie characters rather than comics was born.

Also, didn't someone say that the reason Doctor Strange was using an axe in the comics is because it was in an early draft of the film? Anybody know if that's true or not? Cause I'm starting to wonder if Marvel Studios is deliberately feeding the comics side false info to fuck with them. Remember the news rumors about how Captain America: Civil War had multiple death scenes filmed?

true, but in comparing Spencer's comedic works with Lieber and his comedic works without Lieber, one group is much better than the other

this. And remember, many people will count into several categories at once.

Which were all from close to a decade ago. Marvel seriously needs to start treating things like that have consequences. When the only time this decade marvel did something that mattered was killing logan more needs to get done

Narcissists are obsessed with image control. He's trying to explain away his failure.

>It quickly returns to normal immediately there after.
Which is a very odd thing to say, since "normal" in Marvel means one event right after another, without breaks.

I've skipped Marvel's events for the last few years. Just par for the course for me.

Like eating shit?

>Remember the news rumors about how Captain America: Civil War had multiple death scenes filmed?

I thought that was just a trick to muddy up leaks.

Like how we push DCEU for "new" things right?

Why does he thinks he is being this edgy writer taking chances while doing a standard issue hero becomes badguy for a while story...

he listened to Brevoort about making people mad means you're doing something right

>trying new things =! selling shit

I stand with the Wigga?

That falls into bad writing/editorial problem than "bad character".

>abloobloobloo why are humans just telling the same handful of stories over and over again instead of reading my super cool original content

Because that's what they've been doing for hundreds of thousands of years and your stories aren't good enough to change that.

Many factors for me.
I'm tired of events
I don't think cap is particularly interesting
on top of not finding him interesting I know the status quo will be immediately restored, so it's a low-stakes story
and Nick Spencer is approaching Dan Slott levels of twitter shenanigans, it's just fucking trite and more than a little played out at this point.

But he can't be this stupid and blind, that shit happens all the time and back in the day the writers didn't even write an easy out, like in Emerald Twilight, that took an entire autistic fanboy faggot tier retcon to take back years after.
While Spencer from the get go wrote himself an out and we all now that at the end of this story Cap is going to be back...

And sometimes the story is just shit. Just because someone doesn't like a story doesn't mean they don't like new things. Just because it's new doesn't mean it's good. Hell, that's why I don't buy consoles on day one launch (and instead wait for bugs to be fixed and better versions to be made).

>isle
Aisle.
It's "which side of the aisle." Don't regurgitate colloquialisms when you don't even know what the fuck you're talking about.

>people are critizing my story and Marvel is demanding rewrites
>could my story be wrong?
>No, it's the system that is wrong!
I wish Marvel would just fire Spencer