So.... Samurai Jack

So.... Samurai Jack

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Good job Genndy

What more needs to be said? He undid the future that is Aku.

Thanks, Genndy, gave us a good ending where Jack actually did what he set out to do.

Season 5 was mediocre overall and rushed

First 3 episodes were kino but everything after was meh

Didn't take advantage of it's MA rating.

>Introduce romantic interest and dedicate entire episodes to her only for her to vanish at the end

BRAVO

All this taught me is that some people are so daft that they are willing to excuse poor writing, plotholes and nonsensical direction as long as they can remain contrarian, as long as the protagonist accomplish his goal and can't to laugh at anyone who doesn't agree with them.

you're just a butthurt tumblrina xd

you take that back RIGHT NOW

>Liking Samurai Jack is contrarian

You may have it backwards.


You have it backwards.

Fantastic series, weak and rushed ending. Should have bullied Lazzo for a one hour special.

I will dearly miss this series.

Not him, but I think he means liking the ending, not the show overall

truth
>the protagonist wins so that means it's a well-made ending
Sup Forums really is the worst board.

There's nothing wrong with liking Samurai Jack, but there's a problem when people think this season's ending was "perfect" solely for the reason Jack went back to the past.

>Jack fights humans for two episodes
>Never fights anymore humans again

Forget the ending, the lack of fighting especially against humans dragged it down for me. Went through all that killing humans dilemma just for one battle. I know I wasn't the only one that expected something different after seeing this image for the first time.

To be fair, I don't think the finale was too poorly written in terms of the actual events that unfolded.
Meaning, have the finale be a 40 minute episode with the same things happening but just actually fleshed out, and it'd feel less shit and rushed and I wager many people would be relatively satisfied with at least the ending episode

>Went through all that killing humans dilemma just for one battle
Yeah there's a few things that went nowhere. Like Episode 3 and his Wolf Buddy. Thought it'd be a cool new companion but instead he just goes off and is never seen again. I mean, half the episode was some attempted symbolism at this Wolf going through what Jack is going. They meet, and really nothing much comes of it.
Jack breaking his rule came down to little too as you say.

Based Wolf should have been Jack's companion instead of Ashi

The absolute epitome of coming up with the desired result before considering the path to get there. I.e., good writing, good pacing, and logic be damned to achieve the desired ending; bravo, Genndy.

>Ashi suddenly knowing how to use a time portal
>Ashi conveniently dying at the most "poignant time" though it ended up having the opposite effect
>Jack's fight with Aku shorter than epilogue

This first three episode meme needs to die

Yes there was a noticeable shift in quality after episode three shut the fuck up already, jesus christ

>This first three episode meme needs to die
This
the entire season was shit

>three episode meme
Season one did the same thing, problem was that the show was going from separate episodes to a single story and that's where things got muddled.

Normies ate this up so no matter how bad this was this means more mature western action cartoons.

>plotholes
I've not watched S5 back but I can't think of too many 2bh
Worst one is probably Ashi's delayed death because there idn't even an attempted explanation

Isn't that how you tell a story, figure out the ending first then go from there?

Finale was written really bad.
For god sake, the final fight between Jack and Aku was shorter than the entire build up in the wedding just to kill ashi for a cheap emotional effect. That's inexcusable.

I've been thinking about it, and I don't even think more time would even help. I feel like if this was 13 years ago we would've gotten a completely different ending. Seems like Genndy didn't even bother looking at his own show in the past and just wanted to whole season to be focus on Ashi and killing her off at the end so "people don't forget".

I wanted Jack to go back to the past, but god damn the sheer amount of rectons, hand-waving and pointless scenes did not do the season any good. Doesn't help Ashi wasn't a character but a literal Plot-device.

>"you can use Aku's powers!"
>"I can!"
>*vomits one out*

Boggles my neurons that people watched the same show as I did and be ok with this kind of writing. It's fucking terrible, and if you told me years ago this is the way it was going to end I tell you to go back to deviantart

You may come to the realization that at some point along the way the actions that take place and the things your protagonists goes through may make said ending illogical, contradictory to the things that have happened.

>I dislike it when other people speak the truth! >:(

Believe in the Jack that believes in you!

>I feel like if this was 13 years ago we would've gotten a completely different ending.

Of course we would have. Gurren Laggan didn't exist 13 year ago.

You should have a general idea of the direction you want to head and how you get there though it should evolve as the story comes together. But I would say it is definitely not ideal to come up with exactly how you want to end, because you may end up writing yourself into a corner and having to use deus ex machina or logical inconsistencies to reach it when the time finally comes. I mean, that's why deus ex machinas exist right? It is a tool to get yourself out of a hole and to reach the ending you had in mind. It is clear that Genndy knew he wanted an edgy "bittersweet" ending before all else. It's evident by his choices:

>Ashi instantly knowing how to use the portal (since there were no other way to go back because Aku destroyed all portals)
>Ashi disappearing inexplicably so much later than she should have

HOWEVER GENNDY HAD OVER A DECADE TO THINK ABOUT THIS
HE HAS NO EXCUSE

>Of course we would have. Gurren Laggan didn't exist 13 year ago.

Well said user.

hit the nail on the head, user. Genndy was so focused on that edgy "bittersweet" ending and how he wanted an emotional impact that he sacrificed good storytelling elements to do so. This is why the ending was so fucking contrived and cheap.

>the final fight between Jack and Aku was shorter than the entire build up in the wedding just to kill ashi for a cheap emotional effect
How would more time not help that though? There'd perhaps be a proper fight, rather than Ashi just fending off Aku then running away with the time portal.

As for Ashi using an immediate time portal, I'll be honest I'm not very clue'd up in the Samurai Jack world but I didn't see a huge issue with it. Maybe that's speaking from ignorance on the matter but I'm going to ramble on anyway. From what the finale showed having Aku's powers means you can literally do anything he can with the same ease. She did the laser eyes thing, the time portal, I'm not sure if there's anything in canon that says you have to learn these things first like some wizard. She was in a femAku body, took "control" and that gave her control of her powers.

I agree with Ashi was a plot device and not a character, when she was killed off I literally didn't give any shit, but outside of her, I think more time could have really helped the Finale.

The biggest retcon was the Guardian, can't think of many past that. Pointless scenes is far enough, too many things just went nowhere despite teasing something. I suppose it's not just more time then, I suppose it's better use of more time. Letting things flesh out. I felt nothing when Ashi did kick the bucket but maybe with a 40 minute ep there could be a sweet scene somewhere in there that'd at least give a little sense of sadness when she disappeared.

I'm still not seeing the similarity.

What exactly was the whole point of Ashi's character? You create her for this final season, doesn't really add anything of value and her existence is erased in the end
Just seemed so pointless, like itd be one thing if she was there from the beginning of the series but she wasn't

Genndy doesn't know how to write good.

Not that user, but Genndy's goal of getting that cheap "bittersweet" emotional impact really backfired, given how contrived the events leading up to it were. Admittedly, I liked Ashi as a character and wished she and Jack could be together at the end, but even I didn't feel anything about her disappearing.

I don't know about you, but Ashi knowing how to use a portal instantly seemed like a convenient deus ex machina to me. It doesn't make much sense from a storytelling perspective to have such an easy solution handed to you on a silver platter; Jack has been searching for a time portal for over 50 years and it just pops up LITERALLY right under his feet?? From a logical perspective, Ashi doesn't even know what era Jack comes from and how would she even know how to create the portal? The shapeshifting made sense because she used it when she was in the "controlled" form. But neither the laser eyes nor the portal made sense. I mean, it's not like tigers instantly know how to hunt when they are born, why should Ashi instantly know how to create a time portal?

It's to reach that "emotional" ending. Without her, there was no way for Jack to get back home. Without her, there's no way of kicking Jack in the face one last time to ensure he gets a sad ending.

The reason I say more time wouldn't of helped is because clearly it wouldn't of mattered. Genndy had one goal when making this series :To have a bittersweet ending. He basically did what alot of amateur writers do, and force things into stories that don't match the general tone or themes they are trying to convey. When you make a story, you want to make sure it matches it and not force things in there for shock value or cheap emotional gut punches. You tend to piss people off that way, because they feel like they wasted their time getting invested in your story.

Everyone knows this show is filled with Magic, deus ex Machina's , one of my favorite episodes (Jack vs Ultrabots) Jack literally asspulls powers out of nowhere to win. But its fine! because it's cool and matches the story. With all that in mind, I find it hard to believe Ashi lived as long as she did to die conveniently at her wedding day. And I know this gets alot of flack, but killing the Guardian off screen was a copout and a clear indication that the writing got sloppy. I'm not even going to get into the scenes about "how the future can still be saved".

Basically Even if Genndy had more time, it would've been wasted on Ashi.

Oh shit I'm sorry.

Fuck you Genndy for ripping off one of my favorite animes in a bland tastless manner and claiming it as you own.
Seriously am I the only one who mad at the fact its just a big rip-off of Gurren Lagann.
Whats next, will he create a show about people who turn into titans to fight other titans?

>Whats next, will he create a show about people who turn into titans to fight other titans?

"I think I have an idea on how to end sym-bionic titan, thanks user"

I loved the season, and even the ending! Though I really miss Ashi! She was cute and I loved her!

this season didn't even have any good fight scenes
how could anything in S5 even come remotely close to topping Jack and the Swamp Monster and Jack vs. Aku

Scaramouche was an alright fight.

FUUUCKKK YOUUUU!!!!!! You anime-stealing-japanese wannabe bastard.

You'll never end Sym-Bionic Titan, you fucking hack. US of A owns your little twink show.

You know it'll happen.

>octus gets killed during the final fight
>sutis get destroyed
>Ilana and Lance realize because they have been linked together so long they can transform on their own
>turn into literal titans and save the day


BRAVO GENNDY

GAMMUBAI ZABCK

TWO

PORTALS

>I find it hard to believe Ashi lived as long as she did to die conveniently at her wedding day. And I know this gets alot of flack, but killing the Guardian off screen was a copout and a clear indication that the writing got sloppy
I agree with a lot of that.
And I understand where you're coming from. But had the time been used better I do think a 40 minute finale would've been much nicer.

>this show is filled with Magic, deus ex Machina's
Then is Ashi's portal really a big deal? She has the powers of Aku, she can do what he can and immediately does so.

As for The Guardian, it's a retcon but it's one that doesn't bug me too much because, and only because, it's something Genndy set up 10 years ago and it wouldn't really be fair for him to write himself into a corner to include something he's changed his mind on. Granted, it probably would have been better but that's a different matter. Funnily enough I had a weird dream about the Guardian and Jack, Guardian reveals Jack's real name was some lame shit like Mike but the scene was cool and comfy.

Should I watch sym-biotic? I dunno if I wanna invest in a show that'll most likely never hace a conclusion even though that's exactly what I did with Samurai Jack

Yeah Season 5 was largely wrote around Ashi, but I don't think her being a daughter of Aku or being able to make a time portal is too contrived in the sense it got a decent set up. She mostly felt like a plot device, but from Ep1 she was a daughter of Aku and nothing about that felt out of place.
I think one thing that I don't see enough people mention is Jack just giving up his sword immediately after he got it back so Ashi can capture him. That seemed contrived in the sense Jack didn't need to give up his sword in order to not kill Ashi.

>Ashi knowing how to use a portal instantly seemed like a convenient deus ex machina to me
I don't think so man. I'm not saying I liked it and I'm not trying to be this SJ defender, I wasn't even too fond of the finale but the setup was all there man. She's a daughter of Aku, she had his powers, she used them under the corrupt state, got control of them and used them for good.
Sure, it's incredibly convenient Jack fell in love with the 1 girl capable of making his goal a reality, but again, the setup was all there. It's not like she came out of nowhere, made a portal and they fell in love.

>Ashi doesn't even know what era Jack comes from
I mean, it's possible Jack told her, but I think concerns like how does she know how to create a time portal and where to send it, as well as use laser eyes seems like it's more to do with how Aku's shit works, and we don't really know that. Personally, I don't see a big issue with "I can do it too!", because Aku did awaken the "Aku inside of her" and whatever.

Go watch the anime version called Attack on Titan, its much better

>Then is Ashi's portal really a big deal? She has the powers of Aku, she can do what he can and immediately does so.

Its a problem because this whole journey was Jack looking for a portal an adventure filled with dangers around every corner and one is conveniently handed to him on a sliver platter by a newly introduce character already hoggin alot of screentime.

It doesn't feel satisfying at all, and its like I wasted my time believing when Jack finally gets back to the past it was going to be amazing or some sort of epic fight. It's why alot of people who wanted Jack to go back to the past was pissed the guardian was killed offscreen because it was a rematch everyone wanted since it was like the only episode that was plot related and related to Jack's quest so heavily. Genndy wrote himself into a corner when he wanted to ignore everything that happened in the past in favor of Ashi and his "forced bittersweet" ending.

OK admittedly, logically it barely passes as plausible (when someone had predicted Ashi being able to create a portal, I laughed it off as being ridiculous). I suppose arguing it like that would be kinda pointless since it's all made-up logic anyways.

But from a storytelling perspective, there's literally no reason why Genndy would make the portal this easy to get. I mean sure, it is possible for the main villain of a bond movie to be killed by a stray bullet, but does it mean it makes sense from a narrative perspective? Does it sit well with you that Jack had, on numerous occasions, had to sacrifice the portal in order to save someone, and now literally and conveniently appears under his feet? I mean, part of his entire journey was to get to the past and now it's being handed to him on a silver platter by some character introduced like a couple episodes ago?

I don't know about you, but that really bothered me.

>>scenes about "how the future can still be saved."

Thank God I'm not the only one pissy that they through the entire future away despite constantly implying that there was still hope for it and it's people!

>> Spend 5 seasons getting the audience attached to a world and it's characters and go out of you're way show that there's still beauty and hope in this world despite being in the grips of evil. Spend last season developing a new character to act as love interest for MC to further cement the whole "hope in the future thing." Do your damndest to spend final season trying to get audience attached to said love interest. Proceed to spend finale episode wiping entire world the audience has grown attached to and believed there was hope for. Use last 2 min of the finale to obliterate new love interest, whom you spent entire season developing, from existence to get one last surprise gut punch on the audience and so you can get your "bittersweet"ending in.

And yes, I'm salty as fuck.

Moral of the story: don't ever try to revive the good shows from your childhood, the creator will only do it if it means destroying everything you loved about it.

Is it really a revival if it's just finishing it?

If after the shot for shot comparison you don't see it then you're intentionally refusing to.

After years without any sort of confirmation that they are working on it or planning to go back to it, then yes, it was dead and has been revived,

>one is conveniently handed to him on a sliver platter
>now it's being handed to him on a silver platter by some character introduced like a couple episodes ago
I don't think it was really on a Silver platter. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, it was all set up which is why I don't think it necessarily counts as bad writing. I suppose one issue is that Jack didn't care about all the innocents Aku just killed around him before he got into the portal, but that's minor in the grand scheme of things. I guess all the portals being destroyed is also somewhat contrived since it's too forced to just open the door for Ashi but outside of that, they met each other,, hooked up and she helped him fulfil his purpose with the powers she had

I see where both of you are coming from with the other points though. I can't really relate because I was never too invested in Jack, so it wouldn't be fair for me to talk about satisfaction and his Journey but I see what you're saying.

Genndy said he was trying to get a movie for it at Sony for years though.

I get what you're saying user, but puttting my personal feelings aside consider this.

You have a story about a wanderer looking for a way home. You have him go through all sorts of things, fighting off demons and monsters and even making friends along the way. Now this goes on for a long time until it's time to end the story. Now let's say the only way for this said character to get home is riding a magical rare boat, with only few in existence and everytime our character gets near one of these boats it's destroyed.

Now this is the part Genndy fucked up.

He wrote himself into a corner here by declaring to everyone before the season started all the portals were destroyed. Now this is why people were hyped for the guardian, because Aku isn't omnipresent and he's kind of a idiot. In the Guardian Episode, it was well hidden and protected by magical creatures. If all the portals were destroyed, it makes sense there's one more. In alot of these stories when this happens there's always one more. But not this time.

Now going back, lets say all the boats were destroyed. How does this character get home? Lets introduce a brand new character out of nowhere and give her the ability to transform into a boat.

And kill her at the end for the hell of it.

Bravo Genndy.

Look up how to build a spinal structure of a screenplay. You start with a hook, develop it into a premise, carve out the major events, conclusion, and then fill in the more specific details once you have your overall arc and message. He definitely followed this formula, he just did it wrong on the microscopic level of things.

Sa-muh-rei iack

ITT the current state of Sup Forums after Samurai Jack:
m.youtube.com/watch?v=uqkJnn0S7_w

Have we turned into Sup Forums?

...

I do see your point, it's just from a storytelling perspective it makes sense so I can't fault it too much. I mean, Genndy did say the portals were destroyed. Something had to give
Let me ask you this, had Ashi been introduced later in the original Jack series, and JAshi been done right, lets say with any number of episodes, would it have bothered you still that the Portal came from her?

Ah fuck I wanted to make that, you did it better than I would have though.

WTF I HATE GENNDY NOW

That pic was kinda misleading.

I blame the 10 episode format. Not enough time to explore and the fun parts of Jack, it had to end and he had to make a call.

I honestly have this over another shitty cliff hanger/forever haitus.

>would it have bothered you still that the Portal came from her?

Absolutely.

The time portal serves as a plot device for the story. I'd rather Ashi be her own individual character then be written in such a way that the entire plot revolves around her.

Making her a literal "daughter of aku" and saying all the time portals have been destroyed is such a copout way of writing, even worse making her a love interest and try your damnest to make the audience like her just to kill her at the end, since she was the only one who can literally make a portal in existence.

I thought it would've been cooler to have her as the number one Bounty Hunter and still believe the things she did before she met Jack. It would be easier to make her, her "own" character instead of a satellite character for Jack. But that's just my fan-fiction.

Sammmmeeee, I wish they would have excused her time travel stuff as removing her from time so she can stay.

STOP.johntron

“This is it. This is the definitive end, and it’s a great end,” Tartakovsky said. “I haven’t seen it yet, but I’ve storyboarded it, and I think it’s super satisfying, and it should close the door for me for Samurai Jack.”

I don't think he was talking about the same ending.

>is such a copout way of writing,
I just don't see much issue with it from a premise standpoint.
Sure, the execution left something to be desired and I understand what you're saying about it not feeling satisfying that 4 Season of Jack wrapped up in 10 episodes of Ashi, but the idea itself I don't think is really too flawed.

It is contrived, but at the same time the events to make it so (Aku destroying the portals, Ashi being a daughter) make sense in universe so it doesn't seem too far fetched

Oh, and to add, this goes back to my larger point of me thinking the premise of the finale itself wasn't horrible and with more well spent time could have been something people enjoyed.

Just because the events themselves from a storytelling standpoint fit. I know you, and many others would still be disappointed in how it was Ashi who made a portal from nowhere, but outside of that, and the forced bittersweet ending, I think the finale would be much better received.

didn't the Scotsman's "look at me daughters lad" scene take longer than the actual ending?

>time portals can be destroyed
>you can pick people out of time portal while they are travelling
>Aku just stands there trying to comprehend the situation

Guess he was so proud of his daughter and lost grip

I feel genuinely sorry for Aku. He deserved better death than this.

Who drew this?

Obviously Aku could neither destroy nor pluck a pesky Samurai from his own magic portals. They're not a physical construct.

Was excellent. Best shit on CN since Over the Garden Wall. Now when are you going to finish Sym-Bionic Titan?

I see what you're saying user, and I in general I would be agreeing with you. But I feel something as a powerful plot device time portal should serve just that, as a plot device like it always has in the original show.

Genndy only destroyed all the portals just to kill Ashi in the end, and have his "bittersweet" ending. Regardless of if it fits in-universe or not, it's just terrible writing and way of looking at things.

You have a character go on this quest for 50 years just for some literally who come out of nowhere, take up all the time in the limited episodes, to the point of pushing everyone else out of the way and things getting retcon, only to kill them off at the end is just straight bull. Genndy made it clear that he wanted to force a bitter sweet ending, and not a satisfying ending. Instead we got an ending that was tragic, because even though Jack got to the past, he lost absolutely everything in the process.

they share same 'travelling' animation but you can't interrupt channeling or cancel it by grabbing? I understand Aku does not know how his power works most of the time but he could have tried to DO SOMETHING.

I know I'm just another devian art tear fanfic writer but I always assumed there was some kind of catch hidden behind Aku's time portal. Like, only being able to push something 'forward' along time, only to delay something inevitable from happening and other inventive time traveling cliche we are all used to. I sincerely believed all the other time portals were created as reaction to Aku's magic. But no, timeline is convoluted and they are not going to explain shit.

Shitty writers destroyed me twice this year.

This season felt all over the place in terms of tone, like it can't decide if it wants to be grim or lighthearted. Take Aku, for example. The whole season has everyone (except Aku's minions) acknowledge what an evil monster he is, showing just how terrible things are under his rule, hell part of Ashi's story is realising just how wicked he is. And yet, Aku himself is completely non-threatening up until the very end. I mean, don't get me wrong, I loved Aku's goofy moments in the other seasons, but there you also had moments of him being a terrifying force of evil to balance it out. You didn't have that in this season.

Even Jack's hallucinations, which were actually creepy and dark at first, became sillier as they went on. And then, after all the lighthearted moments, the show has a bittersweet ending, which seemed more bitter in my opinion, where the future is erased, Ashi is erased, and Jack ends up alone, even if the past is saved, the future looks bright, and Jack is finally starting to hope again. All this leads me to believe that Genndy just couldn't figure out what tone he wanted for the last season.

Yeah I'm not big on Ashi either, she wasn't wrote very well and again, I understand everything you're saying.
But I still maintain the finale would have been better received if it was more longer, just because many things could have been fleshed out. It wouldn't change Ashi or the bollocks bittersweet ending, but it'd at least add more weight to it.

I don't think S5 was too terribly contrived, but obviously you've been following the show much closer than me, so it stands to reason you'd feel stronger about it

You're good user.

We agree to disagree, no harm done. I grew up on the show and honestly I'm just salty at the way things turned out, since it pretty much ruined the whole series for me. I'm one of those people who believe a ending could make or break the story. Ending just felt empty, I don't feel satisfied, happy, sad or even angry anymore. Just empty.

Regardless, I'll get over it. There are plenty of other stories I enjoy that have much better endings and characters I love and rewatching these shows comparing to what Genndy did to his just helps me improve on my own stories and helps me appreicate the work an author does when they pour their heart into something they really love. Can't say I agree with what Genndy did, but it's his story and I'm just going to have to deal with that.

I still don't understand why Aku didn't try to follow them back into the past and try to stop them rather than standing there like a jackass. And how funny would it've been for him to get back just as his past self dies and to lose his shit because of it only to realize that he's not vanishing because multiverse or Ocarina of Time style timeline split? How funny would it've been to see the realization that all Aku had to do to get Jack out of his hair was let him have what he wanted dawn on him? From there you could have him try to jump back into the future after realizing this and have Ashi hold the portal open so she and Jack can put him down in both timelines.

"Nah, instead let's use the form of time travel that creates the greatest amount of confusion and paradoxes and will require us to literally wipe every character the audience has ever developed any sort of attachment to except jack.

Yes, but Ashi was very cute!

“This is it. This is the definitive end, and it’s a great end,” Tartakovsky said. “I haven’t seen it yet, but I’ve storyboarded it, and I think it’s super satisfying, and it should close the door for me for Samurai Jack.”

>since it pretty much ruined the whole series for me
That's a shame to hear desu. Hopefully you can at least still enjoy past episodes and appreciate them for what they were. Good luck with your own stories too lad

That's a mature-ass response there, user.

Thanks user, hope you have a good one too

If you didn't appreciate Genndy's ending then you didn't deserve to watch his kino.

>Everyone that Jack met in the future is gone
>Only Jack is ever aware of their existence
>No one will ever be able to relate to him
>Billions of people and entire cultures erased
>No more Scotsman
>No more green tigers with letter shirts

I appreciated the ending for making me laugh my ass off.