Leaving aside all the other plot holes and bullshit in The Last Jedi for now...

Leaving aside all the other plot holes and bullshit in The Last Jedi for now, I've seen a few people saying that Holdo's lightspeed suicide breaks the Star War universe, and I've been curious as to how? Any lore reasons as to why relativistic weapons cant exist in the Star Wars universe?

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=U4gpgZO7NEQ
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relativistic_kill_vehicle
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exoatmospheric_Kill_Vehicle
starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Galaxy_Gun
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

but muh books

Any relativistic weapon is absent from this type of sci fi because they are unimaginably powerful. They bring real world physics into the universe. You could accelerate an object the size of a star destroyer to 50% the speed of light and destroy entire planets. Why build the death star?
The hyper drive used to work with extadimensional shit, but now they used it as a relativistic weapon.

Surely even in the books they've used relativistic weapons. It's not like it's a new concept, railguns have been in fiction for decades.

>How
The fact that hyperspace exist for at least 4050 years (documented in canon, might be even more as Luke has said that Jedi protected the galaxy for thousands of generations) and nobody came with that idea before?. It's called internal consistency

Before Disney hyperspace was a different dimension, so you couldn't do that, you teleported there and from the hyperspace you traveled without affecting the material world (and only big ass masses like stars could affect you there due the gravitational well).

Why didn't the rebels send a small frigate to blow the death star?
Why didn't the Empire just strapped some hyperengines to meteors instead of wasting quitillions in credits to build two death stars?
Why didn't the rebels blew Endor with a small meteorite with some hyperengines in it? and then do the same with the death star? or just destroy the Death Star because as stated in TFA you ignore shields when you use hyperspace travel

That's why it breaks the setting

I dont think it would be enough to destroy a planet, but it would be incredibly powerful.

Anyway, didnt Starkiller Base use hyperspeed as a weapon?

in rogue one didn't imperial ships literally lightspeed cockblock rebel ships trying to leave the planet? It seems like this was always in the SW universe. The one SW universe rule they broke was ships being tracked through hyperspace.

>this

>Any lore reasons as to why relativistic weapons cant exist in the Star Wars universe?

When you go through hyperspace, you actually go through another dimension. You're not in the physical universe. So you can't hit something in the real world when you're in hyperspace. At least, that was how it used to be. And by the way, in TFA, they actually take advantage of this to get the M-Falcon through a planetary shield. So not only is TLJ inconsistent with the lore, it is inconsistent even within the context of Disney Wars.

>Any lore reasons as to why relativistic weapons cant exist in the Star Wars universe?

Once you allow relativistic weapons, you essentially have to base the entire universe around them, because they are insanely powerful. For this reason, they usually only appear in "hard" sci-fi, which Star Wars definitely isn't. An object with roughly the same mass as a space shuttle, launched at 30% of lightspeed, would have enough energy to exceed many times the combined energy potential of every nuclear weapon ever made if it were to impact a planet.

Why waste two movies on blowing up death stars when you can just ram them with a lightspeed ship?

Why wait until most of the resistance is dead before you do it?

Why bother with space battles at all?

Why go down with the ship? Do they not have autopilots?

One of the most retarded scenes in cinematic history.

>literally lightspeed cockblock rebel ships trying to leave the planet?
Where? when?. You mean Vader's ship appearing in front of some ships before they hyperspace away and ramming into them?

>why build the death star
It would be kind of a waste to just keep hyperspace ramming ships into planets dont you think?

In Rogue One, they splatted the escaping ships by dropping from hyperspace in front of them, and let them fly into their shields.

Surely they can come up with some technobabble to explain why it cant be done regularly? But yeah, it does introduce a pretty big plot hole into the entire canon.

Fuck if it wasn't a sweet scene though.

It would. A single pebble could blow up our moon at a fraction of the speed of light

yes this part
youtube.com/watch?v=U4gpgZO7NEQ

You don't need a star destroyer, you just need something with the mass of a star destroyer. The Empire could have let everyone know they attached hyperdrives to massive hunks of metal that will shatter any world that dares to speak out against them, and it would have been a thousand times more effective than the Death Star.

>Before Disney hyperspace was a different dimension

This can be explained as the Resistance ship not traveling far enough or fast enough to actually enter hyperspace, just accelerating part of the way toward it.

>Any lore reasons as to why relativistic weapons cant exist in the Star Wars universe?
Before Disney there was the SUN CRUSHER, a small as fuck ship that basically blew up solar systems using relativistic shit. They destroyed it because it was the most dangerous weapon ever and the schematics disappeared.

>It was actually writers decision once they realized the fucking mistake they made by creating such weapon

people criticise this but forget that the very notion of travelling at light speed is an impossibility that completely breaks down the physics of the universe

No it wouldn't.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relativistic_kill_vehicle

A 1kg mass moving at 99% the speed of light would be around 132 megatons. Pretty impressive, but not enough to destroy a stellar body.

Some might say that the ships ramming into Vader's weren't into hyperspace mode so they couldn't do shit, the question is, why nobody hyperspace ram at him?

You can literally sacrifice a single X-wing and you can take the biggest ship you can imagine with it.

admit it, if this had happened in a manga you'd be ecstatic

but isn't HD tech valuable? Surely they rather use that type of resource on ships.

A manga that wasn't Star Wars sure I guess.

so why is it alright in that case?

I suppose they could explainthe hyperspace discrepancy by saying Holdo hadn't entered hyperspeed, she'd just sped up, but was still in normal space.

But it is an ungodly powerful weapon in the setting. So good luck Disney on trying to explain it away in anything approaching a satisfying way.

I stopped reading mangas once they said "fuck internal consistency" before, so no. Specially those that wanted to be scientific explaying the whys and why nots of stuff to then go "fuck this shit, powercreep!!"

>HD TECH IS VALUBU GUIZ
Everything ship in the Rebel Fleet had a godamn HD you'd bet your ass that trading 1 Ywing for a Star Destroyer is a good fucking trade

doesn't that have to do with relative size? An xwing compared to a star destroyer is like an ant. even if it was going lightspeed it probably wouldn't do that much damage.

but the entire point of star wars has always been spectacle ahead of story or consistency. or did you miss the thousands of pedantic threads picking at every one of these movies prior to TFA

>It would be kind of a waste to just keep hyperspace ramming ships into planets dont you think?

You don't need a ship, you just need a slug. We already do something similar with missile defense. KKVs just ram a piece of led into incoming bogeys at 20x the speed of sound. Cheap and effective as fuck.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exoatmospheric_Kill_Vehicle

>Specially those that wanted to be scientific
and that's never been star wars so we're alright

>implying a ywing wouldn't splat like a bug on your windshield

>Took us 1 second after discovering how to use nuclear energy to transform it into a weapon
>25k years before they thought "Hey, I can ram my ship at hyperspace speed and blew up their entire fleet at the cost of a single ship!"

Also, one minute of silence for the captains of Ninka and Anodyne who died for nothing instead of hyperspace ramming the Supremacy

Because Id assume that Manga settings would be built around such weapons and wouldn't have all its lore invalidated by such a stupid asspull. I'd be just as upset if Legend of The Galactic Heroes did the same.

you guys seem to forget that they can literally just write in a reason why the implications of this cannot be as they appear

>LETS JUST HYPER SPACE RAM EVERYTHING WE SEE SO WE CAN LOSE RESOURCES AND PILOTS
ALLAH ADMIRAL AKBAR

>Literally try to explain everything in their books and shit
Scientific doesn't exclusively mean "our" science user, it means it follows controlled parameters and rules.

Relativistic weapons are scary as shit

>literally no way to intercept them
>pretty much no fucking way to even discern they're there at all
>no way to defend against them

star wars books are separate from the movies. that'd be like trying to refer to rey by how she looks in her action figure form.

But they bloody haven't, and there aren't many that aren't retarded

>Resources
Every goddamn space ship in SW has an hyperengine, every single starfighter in the resistance has hyperengine, every single TIE has now hyperengine. Hyperengines are cheaps

You sending 50 starfighters into a dogfight that will only leave 3 alive is wasting resources.

>Pilots
Droids exist, autopilot exist (Episode 1), remote control exists. And even if you have to sacrifice a pilot the Empire has indoctrinated soldier and billions of soldiers they waste in every movie, the rebellion has kamikazed more than once, is not something they dispise doing.

>tfw R1 already invalidated snackbar tactic since Star Destroyer smashed a smaller ship when going to lightspeed ezpz

The easy way to handwave this problem is retcon more than half of episode 8 and make it a bad dream by Luke or Rey.

Literally every space battle wastes multiple ships and loses countless pilots when they could just sacrifice one ship piloted by droids to wipe out the entire opposing force. It is the most efficient course of action and costs a fraction of the resources literally any other strategy including fleeing (since they've never successfully fled with 100% survival rates) would use.

A tomahawk cruise missile costs a million bucks, kind of a waste to keep shooting them.

it's not invalidated when they can just write around it.
you're like the people who said how can doctor who have another regeneration, they stated explicitly that it has a limit

Accurate

Books are canon though, in fact Disney recommends reading them to fully understand the movies, same with comics and their CGI cartoons
Not that you will see me spend my money on them, you jews

A starship weighing in at 1,500 tons (approximately the weight of a fully fueled space shuttle sitting on the launchpad) impacting an earthlike planet at "only" 30 percent of lightspeed will release 1.5 million megatons of energy -- an explosive force equivalent to 150 times today's global nuclear arsenal.

TIEs aren't equipped with hyperdrives but all Rebellion fighters were.

there hasn't been any other movies since that occurrence .
they're not going to reproduce every star wars movie just for this.
it'll definitely come up in future probably really up front like 'why don't just use relativistic weapons' 'ah no we can't because schloblidgoglipdshsugyiu

Don't mind me.

>They could have her become a big ass shield for the smaller ships taking all the fire and dying in a blaze with the "you don't destroy what you hate, you protect what you love!" motto
BUT NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO lets rape internal consistency in a stupid move

The size difference between a ywing and an ISD isnt that much different than a mon cal cruiser and the supremacy
>resources
Fucking nothing compared to the mile long ship you just wasted
>pilots
Don't even need em dumbfuck, just about every rebel starfighter has an astromech droid. Plus you probably killed at least 50 Tie pilots in the enemy ship anyways anyways

literally answered your own question.

they only say that to get people to buy it

As opposed to building a space station the size of a moon that takes almost 2 decades? The Empire can make Star Destroyers like hot cakes.

>Before Disney there was the SUN CRUSHER, a small as fuck ship that basically blew up solar systems using relativistic shit. They destroyed it because it was the most dangerous weapon ever and the schematics disappeared
Wasn't relativistic, it had missiles that collapsed stars which isn't impossible to do if you can increase their density enough, which a large enough explosion would do.

>Hello I am [new star wars character] and I have a [anti relativistic weapon shield]


there was that hard, retards

We’ve clearly scene that they didn’t exist up until this movie? Physics is the short answer to why it breaks the lore, but mostly it’s the fact that the droid army never used this technique in the prequels

You sir, can kindly suck my cock, I'm tired of posting this

Read: HYPERENGINE

The resistance is not what i would call a well funded army. They barely made it out alive in TLJ. I don't think they can afford to keep hyperspace ramming their problems away.

The Supremacy literally built Star Destroyers in it. It shits out Star Destroyers. It's not wasteful at all.

this biggest issue with this is: why hasn't it been done before, and the fact that it will never happen again
it was just a retarded stunt they pulled out of their ass like mary poppins leia just because it was cool and epic
fuck continuity and established lore

It's just ass blasted cringe tier fans forgetting it's a space fantasy movie that begins with it's own version of "once upon a time" at the beginning.

The jump doesn't even completely destroy the ship. It just renders it useless and drifting. They still managed to land on Crait with a big ass army. Their leadership still survived. It's not a big deal. I don't think it would have blown up a death star. Probably just put a hole through it. Even then, it's not worth it to sacrifice such a valuable sized cruiser unless it's the absolute last option like the case of this movie. People are just being contrarian because they are triggered.

this.
also, why didn't vikings have laptops

The Disney "Alternate Dimension" Clears it up a bit suprisingly, bu bstill leaves a massive plot hole

Okay, Alternate Dimension, Explains why they dont use them as Weapons

>Holdo Rams Supremacy
Okay, this breaks that, UNLESS She impacted before she reached hyperspace

>Why doesnt anyone else do that, Hyperspace at a range to destroy a fleet
Because Disney is fucking Stupid and creates plot holes in its own canon

And? If the poor army can afford them for their grunts, the rich army sure as shit can. Most Tie fighters are never far from a Star Destroyer to ferry them, light speed really wouldn't be a necessity.

no? it's cheaper and faster and less prone to getting blown up by a kid

The Empire had 200k Star Destroyers btw. You could retire yours like that, Venators? nah, they're old, lets hyperspace ram some rebel planets.

No they don't. They have Twin-Ion Engines. It's literally why they're called TIE fighters.

>NEVER BEFORE SEEN

Well now your ship can fly through enemy ships with no worries because it'd have the kinetic resistance equal to the energy released by the Death Star.

>Before Disney hyperspace was a different dimension
fucking hell in episode 7 the falcon jumps from inside a ship hangar into hyperspace, they ignored that for episode 8

Fuck. I'm thinking of old-school TIEs. I wasn't even thinking of Nu-Wars shit. This is what you get when you just copy and paste shit like this in your movies. I'll just suck your dick now and be on my way.

>A tomahawk cruise missile costs a million bucks
Try $1.87 million

At we shot 52 of them at some random airfield in Syria

yes but with both techs in the universe we ust have mutually assured destruction and ergo proxy wars and should i say ...... star wars


dun dun dun dun dun duuuuuuuuuuuuun

They wasted 10 X-wings against Starkiller base
They wasted 5 X-wings / A-wings and 6 bombers against a single dreadnought

You could have spent 1 and 1 for both, in fact, I think a single starfighter well possitioned can blew up an entire fleet as you could see in that scene Holdo destroyed the Supremacy and all the Star Destroyers behind it

Ah shit, my bad. I missed the part where hyperdrive were invented in episode 8, and didn’t exist before this.

There are no plot holes. You're just stupid.

I fucking hate this Tie so fucking much. Literally the only reason it exists is because Jew Jew Abrams is a fucking hack and him and his thinktank were to afraid that new Tie Design would confuse audiences. Hell in the battle of Endor Interceptors were like 30% of the Ties. The FO should use Interceptors as their base Ties and something like A Defender or Tie Phantom for their super special guys. And Poe and Finn should've just stolen a Bomber to escape. Fuck these New Movies fucking garbage shit

>Literally says miniaturized Hyperengine in there
...you're simply stupid, that's the reason Disney is so rich, because you don't care about any sense or coherence, you only want explosions and colored lights

>mutually assured destruction
In a universe like Star Wars, that's not a thing, there aren't finite areas of land to exist in, so there is no way to assure both sides would lose in conflict. The side with more people and ships wins.

I actually admitted I was wrong already and was thinking of the wrong thing. I haven't paid to see this shit at all. It's why I was thinking of old TIEs and not the Nu-Wars TIEs.

> Hello I am [scientist octupus character from star wars] and I can tell you that travelling at light speed is not exactly the same as travelling through another spaceship


there was that hard retards

>Literally saying abandon ship
>All those star destroyers behind it completely anihilated
>"They didn't destroy anything, people are overreacting"
Did you watch the movie? or the webm? they destroyed all SD in there, ALL. Supremacy was tilting like crazy.

but there isn't infinite organisms
can still make one side extinct

The empire probably thought using guerilla tactics was a rebel scum move. They only created the death star to swing their dick around.

>mfw every two bit freighter captain is piloting a weapon of mass destruction equivalent to several trillion hydrogen bombs
>mfw MAD is nonexistent despite this fact

Executor was accidentally rammed by 3 cruisers dropping out of hyperspace but I don't know if they fully decelerated or not.
It took away 2% off of its shield.
Admiral Gender Studies BTFO'd 60km dreadnought and dozen star destroyers with one cruiser.
Discounting Deathstars that's most devastating single attack in all star wars movies combined.
>even if it was going lightspeed it probably wouldn't do that much damage.
5 ton X-wing at .99c is 660,000 megatons of TNT, roughly 100 times earth's combined nuclear arsenal

>that camera snap onto hand solo.
exquisite

What? If hyperspace is a different dimension, than why did Han did say they have to calculate as not to hit an asteroid field in ANH?

Are you retarded?

> MAD is nonexistent despite this fact
it' does. why do you think they still do most of their fighting with little blasters and swords

How many thousands of tons do you think a destroyer have? Maybe it wouldn't make the planet turn into ashes, but it would for sure destroy the atmosphere and make it innabitable.

Yes but mutually assured destruction is a concept where if one side attacks, the other side will respond resulting in, wait for it. Mutually assured destruction of both sides in the fight. It's a concept that means it's useless to fight because you will both lose. In a space faring multi-planet multi-system society there is virtually no way to assure that both sides can wipe each other out if one side attacks. Thus no mutually assured destruction.

The Star Wars EU is very dumb about this topic. In canon, the only real quote is Han saying you can run into things, but everything he lists are either high gravity or high radiation things. It also seems agreed upon in the EU that hyperspacing ships leave some kind of footprint in realspace as they pass, so travel takes place through preset lanes so they don't run into anything.

Some authors say you can run into shit and that it's a known hazard that navicomputers account for. Some sources say you can run into the mass shadow of a ship.

Some authors say you can ram ships, but shields protect the ship. This is stupid because if a Star Wars shield could protect a ship from a hyperspace collision, the weapons they shoot at each other would do nothing.

It seems fairly official that gravity wells pull things out of hyperspace (look up interdictors), but then some sources have ships running into planets and destroying them.

Overall, it's pretty stupid, but there's a good reason nobody ever touched it. Weaponizing it breaks the entire universe.

25,000 years, and technically Rakatan hyperdrives, which work on a different kind of technology, are a good deal older

Not technically true, but true for all practical purposes. You could render a planet uninhabitable by smashing something like an X-Wing into it, and that's assuming it's only going 1x the speed of light. Most sources suggest that Star Wars ships go many times the speed of light through hyperspace, and if they leave some kind of mass shadow in realspace, that shadow is going like ten thousand times the speed of light.

My theory is that hyperspace ramming was considered so powerful a weapon, with so little cost to the user, that it was agreed by all factions in the galaxy to be a WMD, and use of it would constitute a heinous war crime. This would make the resistance war criminals.

>is
More like was before Disney

you don't need finite planets to ensure that both sides can be wiped out.

>You could accelerate an object the size of a star destroyer to 50% the speed of light and destroy entire planets. Why build the death star?
Expanded Universe already did this with Galaxy Gun
starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Galaxy_Gun