Kenshiro cries

Kenshiro cries
Guts cries
Daredevil cries

Nobody would ever say these characters are weak pussies. So why does Steven Universe get so much shit for shedding a few tears?

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Because those are 'oh shit' moments. Steven, and everyone else in the series, has been crying since the first season for dumb shit so it has lost impact.

>a few

Because when Guts cries, it's a neat way for him to actually show some emotion and to temporarily shed away his image of being an invincible unfeeling killing machine. It adds humanity to the character and the setting. It takes a lot for Guts to actually cry or even falter, so it makes the moments when he does so that much stronger. Since these moments are so rare, and usually at the end of very grueling experiences, the tears are completely justified and sensible. Same goes for Kenshiro and Daredevil

When Steven or any other character in that show cries in every episode, for every single thing, over and over and over and over again, all you can is just groan in frustration as the show yet again demonstrates a complete lack of inability of making an emotional moment without using tears. It's frustrating because it reduces human emotion to a mere gimmick.

If Kenshiro, Guts or Daredevil cried every single chapter/episode, sometimes twice, for every mild inconvenience or mistake or fight, we would hate them and call them weak and pathetic as well

Because they only cry once in a while in instances of extreme pain and despair
Steven cries because snakes don't have arms.

They only cry for serious things or when something truly tragic happens.
Steven cries over cartoon vegetables and ice cream cookies.

what about crying freeman?

In that issue, I'm surprised Vash the Stampede almost never shed a tear.
>almost never

Is it my imagination or is this thread just dudebro bait?
Like, we get it, you don't cry and that makes you a man ...

Dude was kidnapped and hypnotized into becoming a killer. He kills against his will, hates that he does it, and longs to be free. I think he falls under the "special exceptions" category.

Kenshiro cries all the damn time. I mean did you read the manga.
The difference is that when Kenshiro cries, you cry as well.

I'm so manly I cry tears of whisky. What are yours made of, pussy? Salt water?

Good point.

Crying freeman's entire shtick is about constantly being forced into depraved murder and worse, as opposed to crying about the selection of ice cream available.

It's also bait for the Stephen Universefags.

t. tumblr

Luffy cries all the fucking time. More than Steven, honestly.

Because he is shinji level of pussy and useless despite being able to take on whatever comes at him.

Steven being a crybaby is a part of his character.

"Just today you were crying about snakes."
"They don't have any arms T__T"

He's optimistic and emotional and empathetic. He always wants to see the best in people and he can take joy in the beauty of life.

Steven is NOT shown as being normal. He's not posturing like Ronaldo and Lars, he's not cynical like the cool kids, not awkward and withdrawn like Sadie or Connie.

Him crying at the drop of a hat is a big part of who he is. In the same way that there's a lot of impact when Guts actually falters and cries, there's a lot of impact when Steven sucks up the pain and does something heroic in spite of his sadness or fear. Scenes like the Test or I Am My Mom are powerful because it shows that Steven is willing to be mature and adult in a real way. Mindful Education and Joy Ride shows that a lot of his joy is only possible through repression, that he tends to focus on others because he HATES thinking about himself.

Steven is one of the most layered, complex, and interesting protagonists of any cartoon, and people that write him off as being a crybaby are idiots.

OP's tears are so exaggerated that it ruins the scenes for me.
I actually think it's worse than SU, despite said scenes being sad.

Because the instances of Steven crying grossly outweigh the instances of anything else he's done.

more of why isn't he in the list of manly dudes crying?

crying is in the damn title. it just hammers the point across.

>Problem with Guts & Daredevil crying.


Considering their lives are "How can the universe fuck them sideways this week", it's a miracle they don't cry more.

>TD;DR, its in character for steven to cry a lot and the powerful emotional moments come when he tries to suck up the pain rather than express it

So what you're saying is that steven is a crybaby, whether or not its in character for him to be one is irrelevant

Usually i don't judge character for their moral fiver or for whatever personal reason one might have to hate a character, becouse that just dumb. In my opinion, and im talking about shows meant to be take a bit seriously and not full on comedies, a character is bad when they don't make sense, like a villager in the middle ages knowing how to pilot an helicopter without any explanation or reason, or when their actions don't make sense, but since that's what OP asked then i will try to explain my point of view.

Steven is a literal baby and any problem he is faced with confuses him and scares him, not talking about the space war mind you, im talking about any sort of problem, his first instinct is usually to sperg the fuck out or do something really dumb, cry (Optional), ask some else to fix it whatever problem is going on (Sometimes that he caused) and usualy ends with little consequences for the future (which i guess is more of a writing problem than character flaw). The reason he's a crybaby is becouse he can't stand conflict and wants to solve it at any cost, so his solution usually is whatever first thought pops out of his head, becouse conflict itself irks him, its a thing meant to disapear as fast as posible instead of being understood and conquered, it the equivalent of plugging your ears and shout "LALALALALA! I CANT HEAR YOU! PLEASE FUCK OFF NOW", its pathetic, what bothers me the most is that the universe bends so he can be in the right and always get away with everything no matter how stupid, like these there are many examples but if i have to give one i'll say the episode where they showed the gigant fusion monster to connies parents and said it was his mom.

because those characters are tall muscly men (inside and out). Crying is a contrast to that image.

SU is a manlet fat millennial bitch boy. when he cries it is NOT a contrast to his image of a faggot.

saged.

Cont.

That's it really, someone that breaks down on a daily basis over trivial stuff can't really be considerated some kind of badass, he can lift a tank for all i care but being physically strong has nothing to do with his character, he's just a little bitch.

>Steven is one of the most layered, complex, and interesting protagonists of any cartoon, and people that write him off as being a crybaby are idiots.

Its another of those beta-type reluctant heroes like shinji from evangelion, and while i can't name an example, i would wager that there's been a couple of those before, probably some capeshit show.

Vash cries all the damn time. He's nearly as much of a momma's boy as Steven.

Factually incorrect.

There's also the part that once Kenshiro's done crying, you know that roughly 500 people are bound to die in extremely graphic ways because he actually does shit.

When people cry in One Piece, it's because of months if not decades worth of emotional baggage are finally spilling to the surface and being resolved. They earn their tears.

>The reason he's a crybaby is becouse he can't stand conflict and wants to solve it at any cost, so his solution usually is whatever first thought pops out of his head, becouse conflict itself irks him, its a thing meant to disapear as fast as posible instead of being understood and conquered, it the equivalent of plugging your ears and shout "LALALALALA! I CANT HEAR YOU! PLEASE FUCK OFF NOW", its pathetic, what bothers me the most is that the universe bends so he can be in the right and always get away with everything no matter how stupid, like these there are many examples but if i have to give one i'll say the episode where they showed the gigant fusion monster to connies parents and said it was his mom.

Steven being proactive in wanting to help people out and resolve conflicts peacefully isn't plugging his ears. Steven is impulsive, but he's thoughtful too.

Having Alexandrite show up to the dinner wasn't the first thing that popped up into his mind. That was Steven keeping the peace within his family, because he knew that if he picked one gem to pretend to be his Mom, that would disrupt things and cause tension within the group. At the same time he was dealing with his own experience of growing up without a mom, with facing how different his family is compared to others, and trying to keep his friendship with Connie. His solution was over the top, sure, but it's a comedy.

And the universe doesn't just bend to meet his whims more than it does for any other piece of fiction. A good example was when Buck wouldn't stop giving out T-shirts with Steven's dad on them. Steven was uncomfortable with how it was making his dad the butt of a joke and his first attempt is to try and reason with Buck. That doesn't work, so he asks the gems for help. That doesn't work, so he makes his own t-shirts with Buck's drawing and spreads them, showing Buck just what Steven was going through and making him be more thoughtful of his own actions in the future.

This is really, really shitty bait, but so many people have already taken it, so I might as well throw in my two cents.

There are two major problems with the crying on Steven Universe. First of all, crying shouldn't happen all the time; especially from the characters who do it the most.
>Pearl and Amethyst are both functionally immortal superhumans who have lived for aeons
Surely Rose isn't the first person they've known who has suffered an untimely fate; it's unreasonable to make characters who are older than the Earth who still have the emotional stability of a child, unless they're isolated, which they were not. They have friends, family, and don't have to worry about growing old and dying; even Steven seems to be functionally immortal.
>Steven is a kid with magic powers, doesn't have to go to school, has 3 immortal friends, plus a human girlfriend, and a dad who is now rich
Granted that things such as being sad over his mom's passing are totally valid, but Steven is portrayed as a complete crybaby who gets overemotional over the simplest shit.
They constantly cry about emotional issues; Pearl crying about missing Rose is validated because she was in love with her and all, as are the times where Steven cries about Rose, but beyond that it all just comes off as "we want an emotional scene but don't know how to do it without making someone scream and cry and throw a tantrum".
The second problem is that crying should be saved for emotionally tense scenes; having an entire episode focusing on "oh no, this character's sad because they have low self esteem" is fucking boring, again, especially coming from the team of immortal alien beings. Crying over someone's death is fair enough, but having a character cry because they're feeling sad or having low self-esteem is annoying for the viewer; they just do it because they don't know how to have an emotional scene without having someone sob and cry, having someone else calm them down, then ending the episode.

Doesn't he take over the gang in the second volume and spend the rest of the time killing of his own free will?

>Steven being a crybaby is a part of his character.
>...and people that write him off as being a crybaby are idiots.
You're missing the point. The point is that him being a crybaby to such an exaggerated extent is obnoxious.

Also, he isn't complex or interesting. Layered, maybe, but only to a pretty basic extent; he feels pressured into being as good as his mother was, he's happy-go-lucky, and he's easily overwhelmed. That about covers his personality. He's not interesting; the only real developments have been pretty basic stuff one would infer from him already, his personality is simple. Not that that's a bad thing, but you're acting like he's some sort of deep unique character unlike any other.

Because they cry when it matters. You don't expect these big manly masculine incarnate to men to be emotional. Especially with characters like Guts who shows alarming displays of genuine human emotion for someone who can be perceived as edgy at first glance.
With Kenshiro, it was also a big turning point in manga for a macho man protagonist to be openly emotional and have it not be an emotion of anger but rather empathy, which was associated with female characters at the time. It actually broke new ground showing that protagonists could be emotional and have it carry weight. However unlike SU, Buronson and Tetsuo Hara knew how to space out and reserve those heavy emotions for times in the plot that mattered and it really showded you that "Oh shit you know things are tough when even Kenshiro is crying" rather than "Oh jeez he's crying again".

Also as a side note, Kamen Rider also does the whole "protagonist hates fighting and wants to stop the fighting" thing way better than SU. In some shows the Riders don't like the fact that they have to get violent to stop the bad guy and usually hold back. But when shit hits the fan they understand that they have to step up and fight so no one else gets hurt, even accepting that they may have to fight forever. This sort of aspect is also missing from SU that kind of hinders whatever suspension happens in the plot because you know Steven is just going to do something that will make the bad guys stop with 0 fighting.
SU did an okay job witht his at the beginning. But then it kind of fell back on it too much so now when it happens you just roll your eyes instead of feeling invested. I get Sugar wanted a more emotional protagonist but a reserved amount of emotion is always better than an abundant amount.

tl;dr the examples mentioned do a better job of emotional drama than SU ever has.

Is there a limit on the amount of times a character can laugh or be angry, or does the Autistic Arbitrary Limit of Emotional Display Counter only go off for crying specifically?

That is pretty damn sad.

Not to mention when Raoh cries you go "Oh shit"

I remember some people here were bizarrely hostile about Korra crying too, as if a young woman crying under extreme stress is somehow unusual or unacceptable.

Crying is an intense emotion, which makes it annoying to be constantly used in the same way in most episodes. Laughter (which isn't really an emotion) or anger generally aren't as intense; if, for example, someone got incredibly angry and had a screaming fit as often as characters cry in Steven Universe, people would be complaining about that, too. Or if characters burst out laughing and spent several minutes just laughing every episode.

He's less meat puppet, but he's still forced to go around murdering the fuck out of people.

A character breaking into tears is supposed to be something intense, something overflowing with emotion, because that's how it is when people usually cry. It's basic writing that the more you use a specific trope in your story, the more likely people are to get sick of it. That's why movies, for example, usually have characters only cry around the 2nd or 3rd act after a major event in the story.
Laughter (which isn't even an emotion) or anger aren't as intense and are more commonly used. I don't think I have to explain this.
Crying should matter in a story because it matters to us. It's intense and heart-breaking whenever someone close to us does it precisely because it often is out of character.

It isn't an "arbitrary limit of emotional display", as you like to call it.
It's just that some of us see crying as more than just a stupid gimmick you tack on to a scene when you don't know how to handle emotion otherwise.
And that's precisely how Steven Universe uses crying: as a gimmick. They even poke fun at themselves for it (not that they seem to understand why people have a problem with this)

If you are functionally immortal and everyone you know and care about are also immortal. How often do you think someone dies?
I doubt in their life time they have seen 2 people die.

>mfw when Sup Forumsmrades allow their Circle of Sadness to be breached

>having a character cry because they're feeling sad or having low self-esteem is annoying for the viewer
>having a character cry because of things that make people cry is annoying for the viewer

They have a specific word for it, I'm sure they're aware of the concept of death.

They shouldn't have made them several millennia old if they wanted them to explore basic emotional issues such as being incapable of getting over the death of a loved one.

>anons explain in detail why the excessive crying in SU puts them off and why emotion should matter
>"lol you guys are just autists who don't want emotion"
Every time I start to feel sorry for SU fans over how far the show has fallen I'm reminded that they completely deserve it

>This is really, really shitty bait, but so many people have already taken it

Who cares. It's better than another Sup Forums Wonder Woman thread.

Because Korra was crying enough for the whole group while everyone else cried once in a season, with Mako never shedding a tear ever. Also the predicaments she cried during or from could have been prevented if she acted like she cared before the waterworks.

Katara crying goes with their situation in AtLA. Korra crying comes across as childish.

>Steven being proactive in wanting to help people out and resolve conflicts peacefully isn't plugging his ears. Steven is impulsive, but he's thoughtful too.

No, being impulsive means he's not thoughtful, also he never really seems to want to solve conflicts more than just getting rid of them, but i'll get to that later.

>Having Alexandrite show up to the dinner...

Its was avoiding the reallity he has to live by, instead of trying to explain the situation to the girl's parents he chose to make the most outrageous lie he could muster so the problem could go away so the girl would be out of trouble, becouse ultimately he never really wants to solve the problem at hand, he wants to get rid of the consequences, he tries to magic his way out trouble and the script says he does, so "This giant monster is my mother" is a lie that totally works, the real reaction should've been them fleeing in terror and confusion, instead the universe bend again and this is "just a tad odd, nothing to get upset about". But if your answer is going to be "Its just a comedy brah" then dont bother writing, for what i can tell SU is some kind of comedy/character drama/space opera/musical/monster of the week/slice of life/action show, but without focus in any of those aspects, so it ends up being neither of them becouse all genres end up steping its toes with the next.

Crying is a natural human response to sadness and emotional distress. It's not a bizarre, rare occurrence and the idea that it needs to be rationed out for effectiveness is ridiculous.

Which time did Korra cry that you felt was not a realistic emotional expression?

>"I don't know how drama works, so i guess it doesn't matter"

One time was when she was crying before they head out in Asami's car during season 1. She's crying over not getting the hang of airbending which she thinks will help her help the city. She says she feels alone.
These do not feed into each other successfully since the last time we see her genuinely do airbending stuff was episode 3 with the gates. And the last time she ventured out for the city was in episode one since the reason she was on Tarrlok's task force was because she felt like she couldn't back down from the press putting her in the spotlight.

She's crying yet she hasn't tried to do anything for us in the audience to see that she's honestly made attempts towards a goal. There's also the whole Mako thing but that's another can of worms.

I cry tears of whiskey too, but because I'm an alcoholic, not because I'm ultra manly.

Not sure if OP retarded or just baiting

>I do not understand basic writing principles and how conservation is used for dramatic effect
Seems about right

>Equating manly tears to bitch tears

>Steven is one of the most layered, complex, and interesting protagonists of any cartoon

Oh my... I really fucking hate how much Steven Universe fucks up people's perspective.

Keshiro is a martial artist. Guts is a soldier. Daredevil is a blind ninja.

Steven is a pussy who made his gf train in martial arts so she would defend him.

fpbp.

Men are allowed to cry, but only during RARE ACCEPTABLE TIMES:

>Death of a loved one.
>Your child getting married.
>Accomplishing a long-term and hard-worked goal.
>Crises after many legitimate solutions to have failed.
>etc.

SU is shit, get over it.

>probably some capeshit show.

Spider-Man is probably the most famous example.

Say what you will about One More Day, it's actually pretty in character for Peter, especially him giving Tony Stark and Dr Strange shit.

>The difference is that when Kenshiro cries, you cry as well.

Kenshiro cries over some of the biggest assholes in the damn series as if their one bad experience as a child suddenly justifies their mass murder. As if we're supposed to believe that Souther is really this noble, sensitive guy who just wants a father's love after he enslaved thousands of children to build a giant pyramid.

Motherfucking Crying Freeman cries every time he kills somebody and he's a fucking hitman

Do salty tears rob Luffy of his DF powers same as ocean water? If so I guess evacuating them from his body is a necessity.

Because he does not cry manly tears of regret and sorrow. He cries little kid tears of insignificant nonsense.

>all of these emotionally immature men

Oh boy

>a few

Vash is broken on the inside, everything is a farce. But he's optimistic about it at least.

That moment isn't meant to justify or say that he's noble, but yes he did do it out of love for his father, even though he didn't realize it himself. His father who he was forced to kill as a child since his dad was kind of a dick about traditions. Kenshirou gives Souther respect not as a way of bypassing his crimes, but because he understood Southers heart, his love, his sadness. Kenshiro is an empathetic guy who could understand the people he clashed with as long as they weren't heartless ruffians. Sourther was just a guy broken by his own traditions as a child but he did still have genuine feeling deep down.

Yes giving backstory and contexts helps, what people who spit at the backstory miss is that its not meant to clear them of guilt, but it does change the intent behind their actions or give it decent context which fleshes them out.

Kenshiro deals with people who kill others, but he's rare to hate people. He had to learn the hard way early on that you can't be light on crime in his world.

Raoh only cried like once, and that was because of Toki.

What makes Kenshiro work is that even though he empathizes with some pretty cruel people he never lets them escape punishment if they are guilty. Basically Lawful Good done right.

>Kenshiro, when do you cry?
After a grueling battle where I had to kill a a warrior of great skill, principle, and drive who strayed from an honorable path to become a tyrant. Also depending on the arc that guy was one of my brothers.

>Guts, when do you cry?
After my best friend was tortured so much he was basically just a head on a stick who then sacrificed all my other friends to become a demon and raped my girlfriend so hard she became retarded.

>Steven, when do you cry?
youtube.com/watch?v=R0v0LnW0qJk

So where does he fall? Manly tears or bitch tears?

are you still fucking crying about that you fucking pussy

or lawful neutral

I don't think he cried over Souther at all.

Because those characters don't cry over fucking ice cream sandwiches.

Im in wild roller coaster Tear

>Steven Universe
>"few tears"

Nigga, were your parents related? Like, before they were married?

Steven cries in almost every episode, and usually about the weakest shit in the most obnoxious manner, he even cried over an ice cream company going out of business like a goddamn autist.

Badasses like Kenshiro from Fist of the North Star and Colonel Mustang from Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood cries SPARINGLY during scenes with actual dramatic impact, so they had a very good reason to cry about the death of their allies and closest friends.

Go jerk off to the Miyazaki-ripoff granny instead of spouting dumb bullshit to defend your shitty show, you apologist retard.

Because they didn't cry for dumb shit like getting their favorite snack discontinued

When Raoh see how weak Toki really is, it made me cry too.

>Steven is one of the most layered, complex, and interesting protagonists of any cartoon, and people that write him off as being a crybaby are idiots.

You're a fucking moron, Steven is NOT a good character, he was willing to forgive someone (Jasper) who tortured him and his friends and constantly harassed them, all while getting pissy and offended whenever Kevin showed up just because he was being a mildly smug douche at a dance party.

Steven is a shit character and you're a retard for having your head this far up your ass.

>four cookie cat references in one thread
you know he continued to be a pussy after the year 2013, right

comparing guts in anyway to steven universe

kys

Don't be stupid. Guts cries after Satan rapes his wife, Stephen Universe cries because of ice cream bars.

Yeah he cried when Aquamarine was going to wreck their shit and Connie begged him to fuse with her

is steven fucking Kenshiro?

no

steven is a fucking fat blob with no REAL problems and no, i haven't fucking watched your shit tier show.

kenshiro had his fucking GF stolen from him, she kills herself, his brothers try to kill him, one of which kills his friend and so much more shit.

FUCK YOU if you think pussy fat american child with rock mom and gay looking deadbeat dad could EVER not be a pussy for crying over someone like Kenshiro

Did Kenshiro ever cry over ice cream?

>Shinji is le pussy meme

What? They are literally war vets, the saw many people die.

In SU crying is basically a laugh track for sadness.

>comparing steven universe to actual men

>Steven keeping the peace within his family, because he knew that if he picked one gem to pretend to be his Mom, that would disrupt things and cause tension within the group.

No, they were all ok with Steven only picking one. They all had retarded excuses though.