I don't know shit about this guy and I can't say I keep track of the personal politics of directors. But...
>complete mischaracterization of Luke >killing off Snoke with no explanation of who the character was >killing off Luke uncerimoniously >making MaRey an even bigger Sue >admiral looks completely retarded >asspull Leia superman All this shit was so obviously the wrong choice and to top it all off: >movie gets greenlit for Chinese audiences so lets put a Asian-African interracial couple in the movie and screen it in a country notorious for not only disliking interracial couples but blacks especially And it isn't like he didn't know, Disney edited TFA posters in the past precisely because it is known in the business that the Chinks don't like blacks.
Tl;dr, did Rian do this on purpose? Does he hate Disney and try to sabotage his own creation to make it as unprofitable as he could?
No, I think they literally just cucked themselves in terms of the social messages crammed in there being in the worst received parts of the film. Otherwise he's just a subversive hack, the only good things seem like luck compared to all the horrible comedy and wasted potential.
Brandon Perry
>Crashing this series >WITH NO SURVIVORS!
Juan Barnes
who is this guy? he had what, 2 movies, neither did terribly well, so why was HE of all people given star wars 8, and on top of that, another entire trilogy BEFORE 8 even came out? what blackmail does he have on the mouse?
Isaiah Morris
There's no plan or subversion here. Use Occam's razor, they just tried and failed to make Star Wars appealing to the modern general public.
Ethan Adams
SUBVERTED :)
Dominic Phillips
No, but he obviously doesn't understand/hates some aspects of Star Wars and used the movie to mock them. He likely thinks that these movies are for little kids and frown up SW fans are stupid.
Chase Brown
>they will expect to find one of us in the rubble
Ethan Morris
Its happening where an industry thinks it has a captive audience, usually a White and male audience, where they think,
"We've got White men 15-45 by the throat. We can do whatever we want and get their money. But we don't have women, so we're gonna have women, we don't have Hispanics, so we're gonna have that, blacks so we'll go for that, Asians..."
And then they don't service the core White male audience and sometimes antagonize them wittingly and unwittingly and all the Women/Black/Hispanic/Asian people that were supposed to show up...
Don't!
Because groups that aren't White men talk real hot on the internet and hoot and holler for "representation" but when the time comes, they don't see the movie and the movie's merch warms pegs.
Classic overreach.
Caleb Fisher
fucking smug asshole you dont even have a theory. this pic triggers the fuck in me
Austin Nguyen
I'm curious about this too, he got to both wrote and direct a main Star Wars film on a background like that. Just handed it to him. There's some fuckery going on somewhere.
Isaac Thompson
>She's a big girl
Juan Hughes
Bury the past, milk it if you have to.
Andrew King
He allowed Kennedy to fuck him with a strap-on
Charles Cruz
How much of a bubble do you have to work in to not be called out on any of the dozens of bad creative choices they went with in TLJ?
John Miller
#metoo
Sebastian Hernandez
They have a Story Group which is meant to be the "check" on the Writer/Director's creativity.
Unfortunately, it is led and filled with political aparatchiks selected by Kennedy to assure that her feminist vision is carried out. Most of them had no experience with Star Wars. The only men in the story group (and the ones with Star Wars experience, like Hidalgo) were sidelined.
Carson Allen
SJWs really fucking like this movie. Don't kid yourself, they think it's Kino. They finally see Star Wars as fixed.
Alexander James
Ironic. Disney SJWs could revive Star Wars from death but could not keep it alive.
Brody Parker
This guy is right and you know it
Cooper Morgan
How is there not any subversion?
Snoke had no backstory, what primary villian ever had 100% no backstory. The protagonists of the last trilogy-completely shit on
Kevin Ward
>what primary villian ever had 100% no backstory. Palpatine before the PT.
Asher Adams
I have a feeling that he ACTUALLY had a couple of good ideas, but the rest of the writing committee decided to axe them
Justin Thompson
Dude, there are 3 monty python and holy grail references in this movie at least, reference to bombing scene from dr Strangelove, ur mom joke and the plot overall makes complete mockery from concept of female leadership. Not to mention the ending is established in way that it clearly feels like final episode. It is so obvious that he deliberately sabotaged the movie that he simply couldn't be more obvious without doing text message in movie telling that you have been trolled.
Adam Rivera
>The protagonists of the last trilogy-completely shit on Kenobi in ANH.
Joshua Wilson
stop directing movies
David Ross
Occam's razor man.
Occam's razor.
Luke Nguyen
Palpatine was the leader of the Empire. The Empire ruled the Galaxy.
Snoke is the leader of the First Order... who existed after the Empire... but somehow have as many resources as the Empire... even though they don't have the same amount of power at all.... so how did Snoke get there?
There's a difference. Once the universe is set up, you have to explain how pieces come into place after the events of previous installments.
For example, imagine if they released a new Star Trek: TNG film but the entire crew is different except for Geordie LaForge with no explanation or reason.
Kevin Clark
he no they yes the whole point was to drive away existing fans. as much as it hurts there are idiots out there that love nu wars.
Eli Roberts
>Dude, there are 3 monty python and holy grail references in this movie at least Wait, the fuck? Could you name them?
Who cares, they're a minority. Normies are still pretty split about how fucked the trilogy is
Christian Jones
Explain using occam's razor how they managed to botch up the safest franchise in the world, antagonize the army of SW nerds which normally would eat up the sourest shit and rejoice, and punish themselves for hundreds of millions of dollars for absolutely no reason.
Michael Diaz
Based Rian continuing to BTFO the autists
Dylan Lopez
He said he loved Luke as a hero so much that he had to do something to honor him- by humiliating him in front of all his fans and discarding his character
Connor Murphy
How was Kenobi shat on in ANH?
Michael Ross
Being an unimaginative man child on a site that serves as an echo chamber for thousands of similar mules, your opinion means less than shit.
Adam Wright
The story team also golden showered the movie. Just a bunch of no talents.
Aiden Allen
and yet here you are
Josiah Long
>There's a difference No. Not really. You're still not explaining how the character got to where they are, who they are or their motivation.
It is really the exact same situation but one has nostalgia and the other doesn't.
We forgive the OT because for its time it was better than good. However if someone wrote a scene for scene rewrite of the Iliad with different settings and characters it would be panned even if the original is held as a classic because tastes change. Audiences demand more, storytelling evolves.
But you're still condemning one for the faults you now ignore in another.
Grayson Howard
better than being a buttflustered faggot like you
Zachary Howard
Calm down Rian, make sure Kathleen gives you your meds
Nicholas Nguyen
He's probably always hated Star Wars for being the film that birthed the modern blockbuster and thus killed off cinema as an art form.
1:03 That whole speech about Luke not being important + Kathleen worrying lol
Anthony Lopez
PT >be one of the greatest jedi masters in the galaxy >hero of the clone wars >defeat your corrupted former pupil in an epic lava duel who himself was hailed as an epic hero of the Republic ANH: >turn invisible after smacking your corrupted former pupils laser sword a few times
Landon Roberts
He sacrificed himself willingly to let Luke escape.
Lincoln Cook
Like a bitch
Cameron Lewis
>be one of the greatest jedi masters in the galaxy He's an autismo stickler in the prequels who spends half his time talking down to Anakin
Luis Barnes
Why do people act like wiki autism counts for actual criticism?
Blake Rogers
Maybe.
But still leading a personal army and sitting on the Jedi council. His skill was recognized.
Henry Sanders
Nope.
When you set up a universe you don't need to explain how all the characters got to where they are.
To continue the Star Trek analogy - when Star Trek began, Kirk is Captain of the Enterprise. We assume, because we understand heirarchy rules from our own lives, that Kirk got to this position through a career the proved him deserving of that position.
When Star Wars began, we understand that there is an evil Empire that controls the galaxy. This Empire is headed up by Emperor Palpatine. We assume he got there through nefarious tactics, because we understand the rise of tyranny from our own history.
When a new Star Trek series starts, because of the understood rules of the universe, we can surmise that the reason Picard is Captain of the Enterprise now is because he proved him deserving of that position, much like Kirk had before him. That's because the Federation is a military much like our own. If Star Trek had chosen to set up that captains of the Enterprise are actually hereditary, and that only Kirk family members can be Enterprise captains, then a new Star Trek series with a Picard as head of the ship would cause questions to be asked - and likely answers given in the show itself. If answers were never given, fans could fill in the gaps, but it would be a pretty big thing to ignore.
Which is why Snoke makes no sense and giving him no backstory is unacceptable. The Empire was destroyed. If it hadn't been, then the viewer could assume that Snoke was simply the next ruler, hand-picked by Palpatine or Palpatine's successor. But the events of TFA and TLJ take place too soon after our last installment for this character to just appear out of nowhere and somehow be able to run an Empire himself. It reduces the power of Palpatine and makes it seem like just anyone can throw together a galactic Empire
Andrew Barnes
He made Looper and directed some good episodes of Breaking Bad
Jack Reyes
Why do people act like saying "autism" invalidates logical points?
Benjamin Cooper
>That's because the Federation is a military Stopped reading right there.
Adam Lewis
>muh peacekeeping and humanitarian armada
The Federation follows military rules for advancement and promotion and you know it you turbofaggot.
Jaxon Murphy
>Nope heard it here first folks. storytelling doesn't evolve.
Chase Martinez
The First Order is an Imperial remnant that rebuilt over 30 years. Requiring any further explanation IS wiki autism, no matter how its dressed up.
You can say Snoke is an ineffective villain because you didnt like the CGI, or Serkis, or felt he was killed of for shock value, but saying "HURF DURF CHARACTER BAD HOW HE BEOME EMPRAH" would get you laughed out of serious circle of film criticism
Oliver Hernandez
They're explorers you autistic armyboo faggot.
Evan Kelly
>who existed after the Empire... but somehow have as many resources as the Empire... even though they don't have the same amount of power at all.... Read the books/wiki articles As for Snoke, even they just say "he suddenly appeared"
Xavier Green
Holy fuck. Yes they did in on purpose.
How many 'I hate white men and want to destroy everything that brings them comfort' articles do you need to read by people who smash things the percieve bring white men comfort before you take them at their word?
They really do hate you for being born a man with white skin.
As they will happily tell you if you ask them.
Indeed, they have told you they hate you for being born a man with white skin many times already. Did you really not hear them?
Carter Johnson
>read the wiki hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahaha what a terrible idea
Jacob Campbell
What you're arguing for here is that films don't have to follow on from each other in a logical fashion.
- How did the First Order rebuilt anything at all, given the Republic now controls the galaxy? - How could a sith master powerful enough to head this rag-tag group of Empire sympathisers have evaded detection for so long? Why wasn't he part of the Empire true, given he was around to have seen it form? Maybe he was - maybe he was a secret apprentice to the Emperor, in case Vader were to die or betray him? Gee, it's almost like you could have told that story in a 2 minute flashback or even in the fucking TFA title-crawl and explained it away literally that easily. - Now that TLJ has introduced the concept of the Republic and the First Order literally buying ships, now you have to ask how the fuck each side manages to fund all of this expensive weaponry? When it was the Empire it made sense - they'd just have slave planets, and taxes. So who is Snoke to have so much disposable cash, enough to build a literal planet-sized weapon?
Logan Parker
>we're explorers >many episodes deal with court-martials and the chain of command
Have you ever watched Star Trek?
Adam Allen
Books/Wiki are bullshit and meaningless. The film should explain simple shit like "who are the characters".
Pretty sure he did it on purpose. Hollywood as a whole hates these movies and the people that buy tickets for them and for good reason in some cases (pic related). Killing v the franchise and making it look like an accident would make him a hero to every pretentious hipster film school grad.
But it is also very plausible he is this stupid, or at least the committee of diversity hires that had input in the script are.
Here's how we'll find out: If his career withers from here on out, it was an accident. BUT if he gets to make his low budget film about a gay Jewish alcoholic writer living in Berkley in the 1960s who takes up drug dealing to pay for his retarded sister's abortion who was raped by a Catholic Priest AND the movie gets more Oscars thrown at it than rice at a wedding.....well......he killed Star Wars on purpose.
Jason Roberts
>serious circle of film criticism oh boy tell me about these elite critics and why i should give a damn about what they have to say about proper film reviews
Colton Barnes
That's funny, I just started watching fresh new RLM flick and Mike basically says the same thing about this modern attitude towards established franchises. It's obviously not an uncommon idea and a lot of people said this already, but still. youtu.be/DpHbLewg79c?t=155
Tyler Garcia
>they're not explorers
Have YOU ever watched Star Trek?
Ian Gomez
>he got to both wrote and direct a main Star Wars film
Kek. You know TLJ was written by a cadre of female writers. They just stamped his name on it as part of the deal
Thomas Carter
good riddance to be honest. it's time to stop watching this drivel, kids
Austin Stewart
Good dodge of the point that rectally ravages your argument.
They are a military organisation, the primary purpose of which is exploration, but they are a military nonetheless.
Michael Lee
Snoke wasn't compelling anyhow. It was just Abrams wanting a new Emperor that was now 300% more deformed because edginess.
I think we all knew the original crew was targeted for retirement and due for pathos sacrifice. It was maybe the only conclusion of the movie that made any sense, even if they did it in the most strange meaningless way possible.
Jordan Foster
Guys, do you realize that you're pretty much talking about two rather different VISIONS (or versions) of Star Trek, which actually both hold true when viewed in context?
The "military" idea really dates back as far as TOS. Kirk describes himself as a "soldier" in "Errand of Mercy" and some other episodes, after all. Carol Marcus doesn't want the military (i.e. Starfleet) to get its hands on the Genesis Project in TWOK etc. etc.
It was TNG that basically "nerfed" Starfleet. BUT it actually did so in a plausible manner if you ask me. It would simply seem that peacekeeping had higher priority during the TOS era than it had in the TNG era, mainly due to the Federation-Klingon peace treaty being in action and the Romulans showing no sign of activity whatsoever. I personally presumed that Starfleet's purpose was always twofold and actually quite in line with the historical reality of the 20th century, when originally military research bore fruit in a plethora of other fields (just as civil research sometimes helped the military greatly).
The real problem is that ever since Trek '09, writers seemed to be unable to make heads or tails of those visions of the future and/or felt the need to make it all more easily digestible for the casual viewer.
Blake Ortiz
>asspull Leia superman Reminder that this was Kathleen Kennedy's idea. we'll never know the extent of the input the 'story group' had on this shitfest but I'm sure it's big. I don't think Rian became a radical feminist all of a sudden. There is no such narrative in his previous films so all of this is on Kathleen kunt kennedy.
Evan Gonzalez
They are not a military organization. They are explorers with a secondary military capability.
Charles Perry
>Imperial remnant that rebuilt over 30 years Meanwhile at the New Republic, they just fucking let them.
Connor Flores
The emperor dissolved the senate, and was shown to be a master of the dark side and concerned of the son of skywalker all before RotJ
Landon Wood
He purposefully destroyed every major plot point JJ left for him, I think, if it's true what they say about him and that he is indeed a very knowledgeable star wars, that he tried to erase everything people were complaining about in The Force Awakens. He made some poor decision though, and if I was JJ I would see this as a personal attack and I'd be probably not pissed but mildly resentful. Maybe I'd even try to hurt his career a little, not ruin it but you know, just a reminder of who's in charge.
Samuel Evans
holy shit they have no idea how the force works
Owen Johnson
>so we're gonna have women I find anyway their way of thinking disturbing. For them, appeal to women means destroy men. Regardless what /r9k/ tells you, not all women are like that. The one I went with to see TLJ was outraged by what they did to Luke. I was disappointed, she was mad.
Brandon Anderson
fpbp
Logan Morgan
This is wiki autism not relevant to the story being told no matter how hard you kick and scream otherwise.
Star Wars is not a documentary
Joshua Johnson
Was Mark Hammill in on it? Every press event he seemed to be hinting that this movie was trash.
Angel Harris
The Imperial Senate will no longer be of any concern to us. I've just received word that the Emperor has dissolved the council permanently. The last remnants of the Old Republic have been swept away
Chase Hill
Just like Europe let Germany remilitarize after WWI, and they didnt have "muh unknown regions" as an excuse
People do stupid shit when theyre desperate to avoid war
Sebastian Rivera
Its so hard to tell these says if someone is retarded or malicious I think him and that women are just uncaring retarded
Lincoln Reed
>He purposefully destroyed every major plot point JJ left for him >he tried to erase everything people were complaining about in The Force Awakens
THIS. I have a feeling he was lurking on Sup Forums way too long...
Evan Lopez
Looks like a less handsome Officer J. Dangle.
Brody Baker
But then that would have been a way more interesting story. Heck, even have TLJ as a flashback on that after the safe TFA.
Sebastian Hernandez
People who aren't so autistic they treat star wars like a real place
Brody Gutierrez
Not that user but organizations inexplicably having access to things they shouldn’t have access to is a plot hole.
Andrew Rodriguez
No, I'm the only one that's correct. Does the Federation operate like a military, yes or no. The answer is yes. Fuckmuppet here thinks they're just starry-eyed explorers roaming around the cosmos like his mother roams from Motel 6 to biker bar for her daily semen shot, applied directly to the mouth and anus.
Camden Bell
They didn’t discard all their weapons & sent numerous warnings before they eventually got tired of their shit.
Adrian Edwards
But its not the story being told and 95% of people dont care about space politics in star wars after the prequels
Aaron Nelson
You really think a no name guy like that would get the final cut of a Disney blockbuster?
Anthony Garcia
>the central premise is not relevant to the story
Then nothing is fucking relevant to anything you easily-pleased lemming. Just watch the pretty pictures flash in front of your eyes for 2 and a half hours then go away. Come back in 2 years and watch some more pretty pictures.
Activate your rational thinking lobe before it completely atrophies. It may be too late for you though.
Asher Powell
According to whom? Who decides the military capacity and GDP of a fictional organization in a fictional universe?
I'm always amazed you guys meme about Aragorns tax policy yet demand to see Snokes tax returns so you can figure out how he funded starkiller base
Jayden Evans
>hurf durf I'm a true intellectual because I treat the space fantasy series like its a real place governed by real rules and demand its economic and political situation explained to me
Isaac Morgan
>when you find out your owner is a sonygger
Ayden Torres
he saw the coming storm and he closed the loop
Brandon King
I actually wouldn't have cared very much about how the funding was achieved for Starkiller Base if they hadn't explicitly pointed out that both sides apparently buy their gear now. I'd always assumed they just made it all in-house, which is why the Empire's ships are sleek but built cheaply and en masse while the Rebel ships look kind of janky but are built for survival.
But no, apparently both sides just buy the ships that identify them in a crowd for some reason. Why does the Resistance buy a bunch of TIE Fighters are really fuck with the First Order?