Would the Joke work better if he was a spirit that moves to a new body of a severely mentally ill person each time the...

Would the Joke work better if he was a spirit that moves to a new body of a severely mentally ill person each time the body he's in is killed?

Think about it.

It incentivises Batman not to kill him, since he'd just move into someone else

It makes it clear why Batman keeps having him locked in Arkham. He may not get cured but atleast he can't do much harm in there so long as he's restrained.

It allows writers to have widly different looks and methods for the joker at various points. You could have a lady joker, black joker, etc

Say he's the embodiment of madness thanks to a Gotham curse or something

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=rHFwBhZniiQ
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

That's actually my conception of the character. The Joker as disease.

I think it works better. Like hes some how related to the hyper-adapter from ROBW.

Adding supernatural elements to the joker utterly ruins the character

I think he would work better if he was brutally raped.

The only good Joker is the eccentric mob boss version in BTAS and most of 70s/80s/90s Batman comics. Not the "super-sanity" bullshit or the super competent genius Mary Sue Joker. This of course also requires Batman to be the grounded noir detective instead of global-scale prepgod.

This. The idea is interesting, tough, and it would help explain why he always seems to come back. Still, I don't think it should be stated outright, but implied in Joker stories. Let people know that that's a possible interpretation, but never confirm it

they touched on that idea in the Joker graphic novel, only without the spirit thing

Just make it so that the acid bath made him immortal. That would also make his relationship with Batman has a deeper meaning, since Batman was the one that made him fall to the acid tunnel back when Batman was first starting out and was a bit edgy. Now Batman forever blame himself for turning a normal criminal into a deranged immortal psychopath. Every pain the Joker causes now is on him and there's no way he can stop the Joker.

There's even continuity bases for that, since Joker's appearance had him surviving knife wounds and shit.

god dammit Jim, we talked about this

There's stories where he gets killed outright though. It would be a hard sell to add something so big to a character with such a long history.

they should make it a separate character
"the funnyman" or something

Why not keep him frozen ala Demolition Man?
Throw him into the Phantom Zone?
Chemically sedated and asleep?
Magically Seal him away?


It's a big setting. So many options.

So you have an immortal, body hopping evil that moves to another upon death?

Big woop. Restrain him, with chains and dont touch him, chemically sedate him, then freeze his body AFTER sealing him in a casket with magical seals. Then, put him in a rocket, throw him into deep space. towards a black hole.

What is he gonna do now?

that's fucking awful

>gets jailed
>he kills himself imprison
>he's out again
>does this whenever he's in a pinch
>basically unstoppable
Nope

Wasn't that more or less what he was in Arkham Knight?

They have ways of stopping mental patients killing themselves you know

Then he dies of old age, and the cycle continues
Or he kills himself as he's being arrested to avoid all that

Just have something worse show up whenever Joker dies

No, Joker is best when he has no origin or explanation.

Well, yeah

That's the point of OP, to make a way where the Joker a,ways coming back makes sense

nah magic is dumb, I want it to be luck

It is a good idea that would solve a lot of problems, but like says I think it would ruin the "point" of the character. The Joker is supposed to show just how destructive and evil regular, non-superpowered human beings can be. At least that's how I have always seen the character.

Again, it is a very interesting idea though. Might be neat in an Elseworlds or different universe or something like that.

>he was a spirit that moves to a new body [...] each time the body he's in is killed?
>It incentivises Batman not to kill him, since he'd just move into someone else

So what you're saying is make him a shitty Judge Death?

Gotham did something like it and it was beyond stupid.

It would kind of kill the mystery of him.

Friday the 13th Part V and IX were terrible movies (so bad that Part VI existed primarily to retcon V, and IX basically killed the series, forcing it into space and a reboot) and should not be emulated.

The real problem with this idea, though, is that it already is an acceptablr headcanon and background idea. Making it explicit doesn't do anything other than cause some other comic writer to explicitly retcon it away.

I haven't caught up on Gotham in a long time, but didn't they imply that's how it worked?

Do you guys prefer the circus clown motif or would you guys like a deck of cards motif more?

I still keep hearing Bob Hastings and it's funny yet disturbing.

Dammit Comish! You just can't rape away all your problems! I mean, sure it worked with your ex-wife but this is the Jokah we're talking about 'ere!

Any idea that hinges on "think about it" is always garbage.
No exceptions.

gordon. we talked about how rape is not the solution to everything already.
problem with it is that. by fixing the problem known as joker it like solving 90% of batman's problems. to counter this it would be necessary to write good villains that can be just as much of a pain in the ass as joker spread just as much chaos as him.

>it would be necessary to write good villains that can be just as much of a pain in the ass as joker
You seem to forget that Batman has a rogues gallery filled with tons of great villains that aren't Joker.
It's okay, apparently DC forgot about it too.

I still remember the backlash from when it was retconned he was immortal.

No.

Slippery slope, dude.
If they kill the Joker than they'll keep killing villains and end up with no Rogue's Gallery. They'll actually end up needing The Funnyman and Split Face Guy and Killer Alligator and so on because they killed the entire main brand cast.

ReZero's Beetelgeus is literally a Joker with that kind of power but instead of a virus it's a spiritual possession.

I mean they are going to reboot that shit for the nth time so might as well try and make the story a bit less episodic and more linear. Who knows, it might even work better.

Why can't The Joker simply be some criminal ringmaster that never really gets caught, but sometimes at least gets some karmic retribution against him at the end of his stories like Charlie Colins (or, occasionally have him simply "die" off-panel like in some kind of open ended serial cliffhangers) instead of making him out to be some lone wolf terrorist piece of shit who for some reason is always sent essentially to the same second-rate, +60 years behind-on-code mental hospital instead of the electric chair where he belongs for mass murdering people by the hundreds?

Why does he either have to be an edgy/modernized remake of a character that, for most of his early history, functioned essentially as a Silver Age joke antagonist, or escalate directly up to the extreme of a fucking supernatural force of nature that cannot die? What the fuck is even the point of his character when his only important character traits are smiling and being crazy? Why can't somebody more developed and interesting like the Riddler, or Two-Face, or even Ra's Al Ghul succeed him as Batman's arch-enemy instead of artificially trying to force some symbiotic hero/villain relationship with him?

Sure, you can argue that he's the most "mainstream" Batman villain and has a lot of momentum from the many popular adaptation's he's starred in, but I think that's bullshit. If you suddenly gave somebody like Scarecrow that same media push out of the blue, and gave him one good breakout moment on par with Heath Ledger's Joker, he could EASILY replace him to the mainstream if he was written well enough for people to care.

Just don't have the Joker or anyone else kill anybody.

>wanting to send super villains to the electric chair just because they're mass murderers
Don't you understand? If you kill your enemies, you're just as bad them, and then they win

Also it's probably job creation; the Arkham Asylum union is probably Gotham's version of the Teamsters

but then that would make the Joker into Deadman's problem/arch villain
and Batman as a side character

desu, I'd read that. Does deadman even have a rogues gallery?

There was that return of the joker where he was able to implant his memories into an older Tim Drake.
Maybe if he had the technology he actually could become more than one person

Am I the only one who would LOVE to see he interacting with Delirium of the Endless?

How do you think they would interact?

But, as always gets pointed out in these threads, they have killed the Joker. They being everyone from Batman to the government to the Joker himself to rival gangsters, and the Joker always comes back.

>the riddler
>interesting

You lost me.

Would you like to talk about how you fucked my daughter? She's pregnant now and in a wheelchair. how the hell is she supposed to take care of her baby while she's in rehabiliation therapy? And what's more, my grandchild is going to be on every psychopath's hit list. Not only because I'm the commissioner but because it's the seed of the bat? What kind of fucking shit were you smoking that day Batman? Were you thinking at all?

But what if he likes it?

People who read shit like Batman doesn't read comics like Sandman.

Since part of the Joker's thing is often a lack of backstory, I'd like to see at least one mini where the Joker is a mask someone can don but not take off.
Like a deal with the devil, someone wants something (revenge, to make someone else "happy," whatever) and wearing the clown make up lets them do it, but from then on they are trapped as the Joker.

Obviously, like every other Joker explanation it would be quietly forgotten, but I think it could make a neat story for its duration.

That sounds cool

Who would be offering the deal?

yeah youre right
ambiguity can be a good thing in this case

For as much as I hate New 52 Joker, they at least managed to find a way to get around this. In New 52, he never actually gets imprisoned, he vanishes or "dies" at the end of his arc. That's the way it should be. He doesn't get killed because he never gets captured, his plan just gets foiled so he disappears.
He is still the invincible fakedeep edgelord he's been for years, and in a way this makes it worse because he hardly gets karmic retribution anymore, but that's the way they seem to get around the problem of why no one kills Joker.

>Why does he either have to be an edgy/modernized remake of a character that, for most of his early history, functioned essentially as a Silver Age joke antagonist, or escalate directly up to the extreme of a fucking supernatural force of nature that cannot die?
Because he's the most iconic rogue, and things like The Killing Joke and LedgerJoker convinced writers that, the edgier you make Joker, the more invincible and detached from the narrative you make him, the better. This is also partially due to necessity to make him keep up with Batman's powercreep.
I'm not sure if Jokerfags even like this flanderization. I certainly don't.

>What the fuck is even the point of his character when his only important character traits are smiling and being crazy?
One of the other reasons why Joker is so overused is because he's easy to write. Most other rogues require at least some level of creativity to work with, to try and reinvent. The challenge most other rogues present is how to turn these silly and specific gimmick villains into three-dimensional characters. That's the challenge characters like Penguin or Mr.Freeze or Riddler present.
But Joker's gimmick is neither specific nor is it hard to work with. You can make him do anything, say anything, and it flies because "lel it's a joke". Joker's personality, or lack of one, makes him ridiculously easy to write compared to the other rogues.

Honestly I think the Jokers mostly immortal.
Sure he can die, but he'll just come back.
Nobody sees him when he comes back though. He just pops out of nowhere and it's like "How the fuck? Weren't you dead?"

>Why can't somebody more developed and interesting like the Riddler, or Two-Face, or even Ra's Al Ghul succeed him as Batman's arch-enemy
Riddler is often perceived as a joke because of his live-action portrayals, the Arkham series and him being overall silly. He's been overcoming this more and more recently but there are still plenty of people who only see Riddler as a joke. And with modern depictions of Batman making him a dark and gritty character capable of taking on gods and defeating anyone with preptime, Batman being overwhelmed by a silly man in green spandex doesn't go well with Batfags who want him to be serious business. This is also one of the reasons why characters like Penguin or Mad Hatter don't do much these days.
Also, as Dini said, Riddler isn't easy to write because of his crimes involving a cerebral element that is central to his character. Riddler is only as smart as the person writing him, and unfortunately most comic writers aren't very smart.

If I'm not mistaken Ra's al Ghul has been getting a push lately, in fact I'd say he replaced Penguin as the Number 2 in the Rogues Gallery.

instead of artificially trying to force some symbiotic hero/villain relationship with him?
It's not like there isn't a solid grounding for Batman and Joker to have a symbiotic relationship, Joker is Batman's opposite more than any other character. The problem is that all Joker does or is these days is defined by a homolust for Batman. Which, again, ties into what I said here about Joker not having a personality anymore.

>If you suddenly gave somebody like Scarecrow that same media push
Funny you mention this because Scarecrow has actually gotten a push lately, thanks to Arkham Knight and Injustice. But I don't think it's going to last long.
The only way Joker could ever be replaced in the mainstream would be if he completely dissappeared out of all media for years (decades, even) and some other villain got the same push. Which won't happen.

The "deal" is metaphorical.
The story'd start with explaining that the Joker is this boogeyman type story going back to Indian myths about the wendigo and holy clowns and how people adopt this visage and legend.
The current Joker's wife once had cancer, and in order to get money for her treatment he started robbing banks as the clown. He loved the feeling he got in makeup, of having no limits or filter, and while he was successful in getting the money and saving her, she was horrified by his change and left him, but by then he didn't really give a fuck and just carried on with his crimes for the fun of it.
This joker gets killed by the police in a shoot out.

Couple years later, a restaurant owmer is getting squeezed by the mob. He becomes frustrated with Gotham PD and Batman's lack of interest in what amounts to penny ante racketeering, and so starts his own vigilante war under the guise of the Joker. He comes to like the killing more than he cares about the mob and goes full Macbeth.

There'd also be a marked difference between #1 and #2. #1 would be more like Silver Age Joker, playing stupid pranks and robbing banks, an asshole certainly but not a murderer (very often). #2 would be the more modern, edgy type, who carves up people's faces and blows up high schools because one of the student's dad pissed him off.

Then you wrap it all up by implying that Bruce Wayne had once contemplated the Joker as a possibility before being inspired to become Batman. There but for the grace of God, as it were.

Joker hasn't done shit since Endgame happened, unless I'm missing something from Tom King's run.
I wonder how he's going to become the Joker again? They haven't really touched on that.

Super-sanity was the nadir of Joker characterizations. It's like Morrison read a summary of Capitalism and Schizophrenia and just launched off from there without thinking.
Which is how most capeshit characterizations are probably conceived.

Fuck off Snyder

>It's like Morrison (...) just launched off from there without thinking.
That's pretty much every Morrison comic ever.

Honestly super sanity is a great idea for Morrison's Joker.
It becomes shit once they try to apply it to other versions of the character or when it's treated as the definitive explanation for the character.

Joker is already a mutated creature though. Unless it's just a guy with clownface, like Ledger.

Jim, Barbara's not pregnant, Nightwing checked.
And she hasn't been in a wheelchair in years.
You're delusional, you need professional help. Go see a doctor before I'm forced to send you to Arkham.

I actually thought up that exact concept as a sort of deconstruction of the Joker archetype. It could certainly work for a Joker expy it the right story, but the Joker himself? Nah, it would feel like an asspull.

This. The entire point of the Joker for years has been that he was a normal, perfectly sane guy who had one bad day and completely fell apart, as any of us could. If you instead turn him into an evil ghost who slides up peoples asses and makes them CUHRAZY MADMAN it diminishes the character in an attempt to add artificial depth.

You mean like this ?
youtube.com/watch?v=rHFwBhZniiQ

It's been done before though.
In the DCAU he digitized his brain and brainwashed Tim Drake for years.
In the DC: One Million timeline the Joker Virus is real and Batman has to stop it spreading accross the solar system.

And Snyder tried to do the Pale Man thing despite it all being a ruse.

For all intents and purposes The Joker has been already categorized by some as a pathogenic agent on more than the social level by writers to varying degrees of success.
But I'm on the same boat as those that prefer a genetic/chemical virus than a magical version.

>Nightwing checked

come back the God of Madness or some shit

They how about a little meek guy off somewhere that you never see that keeps submitting people to stuff like "The Killing Joke" which turns them into Jokers? The Joker is still a guy who want too far after having one bad day, but instead of continuously lashing out, he keeps creating the bad day for others, making them lash out. His power, instead of super-sanity, is more akin to weaponized psychology.
Nah, fuck it. They'd probably just end up making Harley Quinn the real Joker, anyway.

It's already being done by Stan Sakai...

They already toyed with that idea in Gotham Academy. Oh, what the hell, I'll post it.

...

...

...

I prefer the idea that there's more than one Joker. It's just one long string of copycat performance artists trying to top the act of the last. That's why the body count keeps rising, and that's why he's got so many different looks and proportions and even personality nuances over the years; it's literally different guys.

It also explains why no one kills him in lockup; people DO, even Batman has accidentally done it once or twice, but every time the Joker dies someone thinks "this is my shot", breaks out the greasepaint or the bleach, and maybe there's even a minor turf war. At the end of which you get a new Clown Prince of Crime.

...

...

...

...

...

...

So Bob from Twin Peaks?

...

...

...

...

...

Morrison did this too in 1000000. He turns himself into a technovirus that infects minds, even multiple brains at once. Basically becoming one with the concept of Joker Venom / Laughing Gas.

I'd actually be fine with the Beyond concept being canon. It makes sense for him to have an insurance policy that doesn't involve going metahuman. If only because he enjoys the challenge, and the idea of a human causing so much havoc for tightass supers. Plus it's a great perversion of Bruce's whole shtick about using technology to save and advance mankind.

...

'One path out between two worlds, laughter walk with me'

...

...

...

...

The end.

Batman already has a foe that is a spirit that transfers from body to body after death

But I have been seeing a doctor, a rather nice fellow called Hugo Strange. He's the one who told me that the only way to solve my erectile dys-I mean to save Gotham was for you to rape the Joker, preferably on an internet livestream for all to see.

>and maybe there's even a minor turf war
Are custard pies involved?

>Nah, fuck it. They'd probably just end up making Harley Quinn the real Joker, anyway.
Don't even joke about it, user.