Post 2012 (some would argue Post-2008) IM has really been shit. And I mean truly shit. So, how do we fix the title?
Well, first off, get rid of Bendis. Bring in Hickman to write the solo. Give the pencils to one of these guys: Marquez, Maleev, Camuncoli, Epting
>make it a blend between hard sci-fi, political intrigue & the corporate world >show Stark being a global figurehead, as he has branches of Stark international all around the globe >revitalize his villains >have him work on his own Rapture/Columbia type of city and show what happens when people are placed in it and how society evolves >have him come across alien tech and get into some light cosmic horror (think Alien/Prometheus, but not The Void) >explore the leftovers from the Shield mini >explore the theme of transhumanism >devote time to his "board-room" scenes, like Mad Men did
Just a few plot-points that could really make this title fresh again. Also, as far as characters go:
>keep Doom as a quasi-ally/supporting cast member >bring back Deist/Christian Secular Tony instead of the recent Flat Earth Atheist >bring back Pepper and Happy but drop any romantic relationships >resurrect the Widow/IM relationship >have Ghost be a major antagonist >have Rhodes come back and be in the US Cabinet, and be in conflict with Stark >have Janet work as his PR spoke-person and work in Pymtron >have the Mandarin get his 2005 personality >explore the Makluans & The Stark >bring in the Beyond Corporation for some Lynch-esque mental fuck-ups
Oh, and kill off RiRi. Tony is the only character who should be Iron Man.
Matthew Brown
>Bring in Hickman to write the solo. >keep Doom as a quasi-ally/supporting cast member I don't want to read Doomwankery in a Tony Stark book. In fact, I don't want to read Doomwankery period.
Jaxon Walker
Oh come on user, Doom & Stark have some great chemistry. Remember the Camelot Trilogy? Or how Doom had a day of mourning in Latveria when Tony "died"? It is worth exploring.
I do agree about the wankery though. In my mind, he'd take control of Latveria again, and he'd be a frenemy. He'd improve Latveria and have a deal with Stark Industries and it'd eventually lead to this Rapture/Columbia city.
Jason Sullivan
1. And most important! Give him a better rogues gallery. Hell Doom is a better villain for him because he can represent what Stark could be come if left unchecked. They mirror one another so well. Also while you are at it retcon whatever Doom is doing right now in the suit because there is no damn way Doom thinks anything he has ever done to be wrong and the idea of making amends for the good intention of reaching DoomWorld is dumb as hell.
2. Retcon he isn't a Stark. Keep Arno. Retcon all of the Oceans 11 bullshit with the mobster Alien greys and stuff with Starks parents.
3. Remove all political correctness bullshit and the idea that Tony would ever work on green cars and other bs projects like that.
3.5 Get rid of Bendis self insert ever existing or replacing Tony or James.
4. Make him a pro war Howard Hughes again.
5. Fuck everything I just said kick off Bendis self insert strong independent black woman and replace her with Arno and start fresh.
Elijah Myers
I agree with you 100% especially
>bring back Deist/Christian Secular Tony instead of the recent Flat Earth Atheist
But also there would need to be a ton of other retcons like his ancestry, death, "modern" politics.
Cooper Sullivan
>1 Yup. I have some ideas to revitalize his villains, but they'd need to really change. Also, the Doom/Stark rivalry was always more nuanced than the Reed/Victor one.
>2 Yeah, I forgot to comment on that. I'd make it so that Arno is the same Arno from that AU 2020 and was just fucking with Tony. Turn him into a new villain.
>3 Well, to be fair, Stark IS about the future. If he could find a way to improve life on Earth he'd do it. I agree on the PC stuff. Tony should go back to being a hard capitalist again.
>4 Dunno about "pro-war", but he needs his grrove back. Banging super-models, enjoying his riches and not being ashamed of it. He worked for it, he fought tooth and nail. He shouldn't apologize for being an Alpha.
I know, right? The contrast between the "cold, logical machine" and the man who has his own baggage to deal with always was interesting.
Him being a Deist/Secular Christian fit with all the scientists of his time and fleshed him out. Nowadays all scientific characters are just Flat Earth Atheists, and it annoys the hell out of me.
Lucas Murphy
> Tony should go back to being a hard capitalist again. I haven't read IM in a while, is he not that anymore? I thought the whole point was that while a 'hero', Stark was kind of an insufferably smug, capitalist, weapon-manufacturing asshole. About the future, definitely, but not necessarily a peaceful one.
Logan Cook
I really wish they'd make it clear what the fuck Tony's ideology even is
He seems much more naturally suited to being a libertarian individualist hero
Charles Hernandez
After the RDJ movies they've completely changed him. His days of being a kinda smug asshole are gone. Now he just cracks jokes. The capitalist side of him has been erased, alongside his industrialist one, and in the stories where something like that comes up, he's all about giving things for free. Just recently he gave all of his tech to a random girl 'cause she built a low-tier suit based on his schematics. When everytime something similar happened, Tony personally shut them down.
The guy has been severely neutered and has lost everything that made him unique. His attitude? Gone. His beliefs? Gone. His political alignment? Gone. His demeanor and seriousness? Replaced with bad quips. They were even pushing the Pepper thing from 2008-2014.
He's, for all intents and purposes, a downgraded copy.
Nolan Morgan
Why would he be a libertarian? In the old books it was stated many times that he values nations and creeds. Take away those and the foundations for the future become shaky.
See, writers mistake the past as meaning obsolete, and something that should be done away with, when in reality the past is your foundation. It has to be kept alive for the future to turn out better and stronger.
Besides, Tony was always the James Bond x Q combination with some Howard Hughes thrown in. He was created to show that capitalists aren't the Devil. Making him a liberal would go against everything he stands for.
And as a reminder, just because someone is a capitalist doesn't mean he hoards everything and puts taxes on the poor workers. A good capitalist, like Stark, paid fair wages, invested in projects that elevated the communities and generally created opportunities for people to make their future. Having him give it free without folks striving for it goes against his ideology. It has to be earned, not gifted.
Jaxon Evans
>When everytime something similar happened, Tony personally shut them down. As it should be. Not that the little girl deserves it, just the opposite. That's just what an arrogant tech giant would do. Hell, Tony Stark was originally intended by Lee specifically to be as intolerable as possible. Not every hero needs to necessarily be a good person or a role model, and some of them just shouldn't be.
That isn't to say that the guy can't have character development and get a little more of a heart, but there's a difference between that and just sanding down all his edges.
Josiah Davis
Sorry, I read that Liberal the first time and it got stuck in my head. Libertarian sounds like a good fit, but it doesn't exactly work.
Nathaniel Parker
The irony being that RDJ would have been fucking perfect at playing an old-school, smug asshole Stark. You can see tinges of it in the first IM movie.
Brayden Phillips
Eh, I don't think he was in the wrong. People infringing on your copyright is a big deal. Having tech as dangerous as his in the hands of normal joes isn't the best idea. I'm not saying he should put her in jail, but give her a "talk". It's the logical thing to do.
And yeah, not every character needs to be cut from the same cloth.
Ayden Butler
True. But they saw that the humor caught on and well... they completely ruined him. Jon Hamm would've been an amazing Stark as well.
Liam Garcia
Yeah, not necessarily wrong. That should be a bigger theme of Stark's character, IMO. Doing the things people in power need to do (or feel the need to do) that, while not wrong, aren't popular or good superhero PR.
Luis Hall
Exactly. People would be "outraged", but that could serve as commentary on how entitled people have become.
Juan Harris
Stark definitely fits very well as a blend of pragmatic capitalism and progressive futurism. I don't know how I feel about OP's suggestion for a Rapture-esque city, it feels a little too idealistic and utopian. More likely, I think, would be Stark Industries producing systems that cities can privately buy to turn themselves into self-sustaining, Rapture-like communities. That could be a really interesting story to tell, and would intersect with important social issues (cycles of systemic poverty preventing people from lifting themselves up, general class issues) without doing so in a way that ham-fistedly alters already-established characters.
Matthew Price
OP here. Well, his Rapture/Columbia wouldn't really be an ideallic city, that'd be the point. Some would use it as an option to advance. Others would take it to the extreme and become degenerates. Others would lose all morality and do unspeakable things in the name of progressivism.
And yeah, the theme about certain groups' inabillity to "ascend" would also play a role. It'd be an "us vs them" story with no clear moral answer.
Hudson Myers
Ah, alright, that actually does sound pretty solid. Shit, OP, maybe you ought to pitch some stuff to Marvel. Certainly can't be worse than what they're doing.
Isaiah Cook
I've kept some notes and I'm actually thinking of turning it into a book. Nothing to be published, basically glorified fan-fic, but I'm studying physics, so I think it'd be neat to try and use what I learn and put that in a book and try to "explain" some stuff. It'd be good practise and it'd be a nice way to take my mind off my studies.
I'd start from the beginning though, so that I could do away with the retcon bullshit and give his villains some personality.
Austin Ramirez
Fraction's run has a lot of fantastic ideas that should be explored. What's unique about Iron Man? It's about technology and corporate espionage. Sure, that stuff might not appeal to the RDJ-fan normies from the movies, but clearly they don't care about the comics so stop pandering to them.
>Tony would ever work on green cars and other bs projects like that. >Make him a pro war Howard Hughes again. You are absolutely fucking retarded.
>Give him a better rogues gallery He has fine villains. Mandarin, Spymaster, Ghost, Madame Masque, all good villains that fit in the corporate/tech company theme.
People like you that think "how do we fix Iron Man?" are the problem. Go back to what's special about him instead of trying to reinvent him for retards.
Caleb Diaz
>Others would take it to the extreme and become degenerates. Others would lose all morality and do unspeakable things in the name of progressivism. what do you mean by this? a lack of "arbitrary" rules like not doing drugs or something is very progressive.
Isaiah Torres
>use what I learn and put that in a book and try to "explain" some stuff. sounds like the exact type of thing that comic book and science enthusiasts (which i'm sure there's a healthy amount of crossover between) would buy, honestly. i'd check it out, concept sounds kind of like a comic book-themed version of randall munroe's What If?, and I was super into that blog
Michael Morris
Fraction's run had some good ideas, but it did not push the envelope far enough. Agreedon the war/green projects. Tony's all about ending the war. It doesn't mean he's a "break down borders" kind of guy. He's absolutely in favor of having the tools to protect yourself, just not using them. I see it this way: The amoral scientists like Ock & Sinister (they wouldn't be there, just an analogy) would go all in. They'd use human lab-rats, they'd commit atrocities, they'd generally leave morals behind. "This is the City of the Future, and the dogmas of the old have no power here" sort of thing.
As for the "degenerates", a healthy city shouldn't have just scientists. it'd have people from every class and order. But some would see it as a chance to "rewrite laws". New place, new order. Imagine futuristic gangbangers with their code being that in this new world, the ones that can't adapt easily "fall behind". New drugs, new fads, all of that as well.
Isaiah Gonzalez
>Bring in Hackman Nah fuck that, he had a chance to write good Iron Man or good Avengers and he blew it. I'd not wish Hackman upon any Avengers except for maybe Namor and Panther.
Luis Long
>randall munroe's What If? I'm still in my first semester, so I haven't really tackled it yet. I'd rather wait a bit and "perfect" it. Right now I'm just playing with concepts. It's just that IM books have been so bad and unimaginative for the past few years, that I feel the need to write my own.
Carson Rogers
His Tony was pretty good. He was serious and not a jokester. And Hickman has concepts such as hard/machine sci-fi and conspiracies down to a T.
Carter Cooper
>I see it this way: The amoral scientists like Ock & Sinister (they wouldn't be there, just an analogy) would go all in. They'd use human lab-rats, they'd commit atrocities, they'd generally leave morals behind. "This is the City of the Future, and the dogmas of the old have no power here" sort of thing. >As for the "degenerates", a healthy city shouldn't have just scientists. it'd have people from every class and order. But some would see it as a chance to "rewrite laws". New place, new order. Imagine futuristic gangbangers with their code being that in this new world, the ones that can't adapt easily "fall behind". New drugs, new fads, all of that as well. So something like a city of anarcho-capatalist mad scientists (Progress) vs the general population from "brave new world" (Degenerate)
Michael Robinson
Plus the regular folks who continue to move forward without losing their humanity. Same problems as down here on Earth, but with a different spin. It'd show that you can't really force change, especially in such big groups. It has to be gradual, it has to be earned.
Levi Garcia
>suits need to be bulkier. >no more of this bleeding edge or other bullshit where the suit just magically appears around his body. >dial tony's intelligence and resources back a little. >update his old rogue gallery for a modern cyberpunk setting >get japanese cyberpunk manga/anime writers and artists to make ironman comics.
James Reed
His Tony was a plot device and epitome of psuedo intellectualism found in average Hackman comic where character for issues be a mouthpiece of some philosophy and explain some plot point in quasi sci-fi language and act intelligent and then would do the dumbest shit. I actually don't know if Hackman is a genius who writes his characters in a manner where they come off as psuedo intellectuals as a way to critique these archetypes or a hack without self awareness.
Benjamin Murphy
Mitch Gerads once posted this artwork / teaser for his own fan - slash - pitch for an Iron Man series, more spy stuff based, almost like a Knauf Director Of SHIELD revival.
Actually kind of enjoy the general mood he tried to transmit.
Cameron Phillips
>Hickman writing Doom >No Doomwankery Pick one.
Adam Bailey
>It'd show that you can't really force change, especially in such big groups. It has to be gradual, it has to be earned. I think you could easily force change, but you're right that it takes time, generations, but if you enforce and control education at a young age you can slowly weed out most ideas you are not ok with.
Parker Barnes
The fuck is this thread? Tony (not Ironheart) has had some of his better stuff the last ten years. Only just now it sucks cause of events.
Have you fags even read superior Ironman?
Gavin Harris
At this point it wouldn't really work. It'd be better to just keep moving forward. Well, to be fair, all of the characters were plot-devices. It was a very plot-driven story that had the characters deal with a specific situation. I'd give him a chance. It's not like I can think of a current writer who could do better. Damn, that looks cool AF. Well, we can be hopeful, right? Sure, but take random people, put them in a futuristic dome, and chances are you won't like the result. It'd be a statement against the "I breathe, therefore I am entitled" sentiment.
Andrew Williams
>Superior Iron Man >9 irrelevant issues Is that really the best that Tony Stark has to offer?
Robert Sanders
>bring in Hickman
There's two problems with that:
1. the machine is broken
2. he was fired for some things he did
Carter Jones
Jeez user, how does it feel to be entertained by mediocrity? Are you seriously telling me that the Bendis volume was good? Or that the Gillen one was great? Superior was fun, that's it.
IM is a character that could have runs that rival Sandman and Transmetropolitan, but nobody wants to actually do anything new with the character.
Yes, the 2005 volume was GOAT. The Fraction one was pretty good as well. But what's happened since then?
Asher Kelly
>he was fired for some things he did Citation needed.
Benjamin Carter
>but take random people Is that what you're doing? enforcing a no Travel/Immigration scenario with hostages that didn't actually agree to live in a super-bio-dome?
or is it more like "mission to mars" where you sign up and pa some stupidly high fee and get to live in the superdome for the rest of your life?
Kevin Hughes
>fired
wut? Last I remember he said he'd take a break. He pitched a LoS book at DC which they found dark and didn't pick up. But I haven't heard anything about that.
I mean, the guy got done writting a 7 year saga, he needed a break.
Lucas Long
I'd actually keep RiRi around, but significantly re-work her role. Instead of the smartest girl ever who everyone loves, she starts of in an engineering school Tony sets up and quickly proves herself gifted. However she proves to be overly confident and cocky, prone to pissing people off and rejects any form of authority outside her own, but still hold a strong desire to do good. Basically a reflection of how Tony was at the start of his career as Iron Man. A poorly constructed Iron Man suit and some very public successes and mistakes later, Tony feels obliged to train her in how to do things properly.
In this role she can both display how far Tony has come character wise and how he's influenced the next generation, for good and ill. Can also serve as a Watson for Tony to exposition to on what the Audience needs to know.
Bentley Allen
The latter. You sign up and enter. You'll be tested of course, and the city would accept certain numbers of certain professions/people. There'd be a balance.
Hudson Bennett
>You sign up and enter. then how is it random?
Adrian Martin
It's not a bad idea user, but Tony shouldn't have a sidekick protege, he should eventually have his own biological son and go through the same hardships Howard did, but try and reverse all that. Show the relationship of him and his dad, and how now that he's a father he begins to "suffer" from similar problems and inabillities to be intimate.
Eli Hughes
I meant random asin average/typical/not just a certain group. You'd have teachers, doctors, musicians, office workers, etc, etc. You'd have Americans, Spaniards, Greeks and Lithuanians.
Robert Roberts
>he was fired for some things he did what horseshit
Chase Hall
did somebody spill orange juice on his hair?
Mason Butler
>be at the top of your game >take a break
nope
he knows what he did
every freelancer in the world can guess what he did
don't Hickman
Christopher Jones
I'd rather she be a sort of side kick and co-star of the book and Tony teaches her everything, Tony's role in the book is of a mentor and he focuses more on corporate as well as invention while Riding does the superheroing.
Jack Hughes
>he did something >i'm not telling you what >he knows
Jeez user, now I'm convinced!
Luis Stewart
I wouldn't be in favor of that. Tony is both the industrialist and the super-hero. The progressive and the conservative. The human and the transhuman. It's these antithesises that make the character tick.
Sebastian Brown
remove RiRi and have Rhodey's niece fill that role
Brayden Rivera
>IM is a character that could have runs that rival Sandman and Transmetropolitan, but nobody wants to actually do anything new with the character.
Holy fuck. How deluded are you. Tony is barely interesting and is only popular cause of RDJ. He had 3 good stories. Yes Superior Ironman imwas just mediocre. But that is his entire career. He will never be a Batman. He will never even be a swamp thing or Wolverine
Dominic Sanders
Oh then tell me why all the A list writersleft marvel to do indi stuff? No one wants to work for them anymore
Jackson Sullivan
>hasn't read anything pre NOW!
Jeez user, how can you be so autistic? Besides, the whole point of the thread is taking the core concept of a character and expanding it so that it COULD rival those titles. Learn to read...
Christian Parker
I think it gives more avenues of storytelling to explore. Like what would Tony Stark do with all the free time he spends on doing Superhero stuff. Fuck bitches, crash parties, conquer the world, innovate. Ideally this should have been Benis's Iron Man from the start but he's not really an intelligent or creative fellow.
Isaac Thomas
I'm really hoping we get some sort of Iron Man 2020 series when the year actually rolls around.
Joseph Perez
Eh, the dual life makes him interesting. And honestly, bad as it may sound, I don't want a female PoC taking the role. Tony is supposed to be the old-money white industrialist with Western values. It'd be like race/gender-bending Bond & Batman. The same way, in the end, Bruce will always be Batman, Stark will always be Iron Man. It goes beyond a super-hero identity. It's a symbol.
Anthony Davis
There is NOTHING you can do with Iron Man to make him that interesting. There are a thousand characters like him and he is nothing special.
If you want a knock off Iron Man character to be interesting you have to make a new interesting character.
Levi Johnson
I've never given it much thought but holy fuck, these characters will STILL be around in 2020 How is Marvel gonna expalin all their futures when the time comes? What happens in 2099?
Levi Jenkins
>93230296 Yeah, sure buddy, sure... (You) don't even deserve a (you).
Kevin Anderson
There are people who like Namor and he has even less good stories than Tony.
Gavin Thompson
That shit has been on the back of my mind for ages. Marvel really needs to utilize legacy characters properly.
Camden Lopez
Throw him in a corporate/espionage keikaku book written by Priest.
Michael Sanchez
Or..just more Black Panther. Nothing interesting about this
Jaxon Moore
Iron Man has been shit since Civil War. They completely burnt down everything that made Invincible IM a good read and Tony still tolerable despite his mistakes.
I hate it when comics do this, but they need to wipe clean Tony's history from the past decade or two. Start fresh, no Avengers for a bit. Let's go back to the classic stuff: Tony dealing with corporate espionage and villain organizations. Bring back his rogues, notably ones like Blizzard, Scarecrow, Unicorn, Melter, and even Jonas Hale.
Go back to Tony's roots: Billionaire playboy, working on staying sober, balancing his company with his hero life. Tony relocates his home to protect himself, his confidant Happy Hogan, and his secretary Pepper Potts, who both now stay with him for their safety. Tony is known to be Iron Man still, and because of that Tony has to deal with many enemies attempting to either destroy his company or steal his tech.
Jacob Phillips
>I hate it when comics do this, but they need to wipe clean Tony's history from the past decade or two. This happened already. Fraction's Tony literally rebooted his brain from Civil War and Post-Civil War Tony.
Cameron Powell
>Rebooted his brain
See, why does that even need to happen. Just ignore the garbage and keep it mainstream.