Marvel

What is Marvels end game? Are they purposely trying to destroy the industry, or is their goal even more nefariousness?

Other urls found in this thread:

marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Lila_Rhodes_(Earth-616)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtue_signalling
cc.com/video-clips/6tm6zq/the-colbert-report-exclusive---better-know-a-district---georgia-s-8th---lynn-westmoreland
youtube.com/watch?v=GhQOqhV9jFM&t=330s
blog.comichron.com/2017/06/comics-orders-rebound-in-five-week-may.html
twitter.com/AnonBabble

>Hanlon's Razor

Hanlon's Razor itself is stupidly naive.

Money, a goal which is confused by ego and incompetence across the board.

Trying to make as many comics as possible as cheaply as possible. Look at every problem they have, it can all be attributed to penny-pinching.

Firing half the editorial staff? Cost-cutting measure.
Hiring writers and artists off tumblr and twitter? Can probably get them much cheaper than industry vets.
Constant relaunches and replacing characters with legacies? Get cheap bumps in sales for issue #1s and first appearances.
Charging double what they used to?
Constant, unending events? Events sell better both as floppies and as trades.

It's all just for short-term profit.

Marvel exists at this point as an IP archive that Disney keeps around to mine for movies. Part of the reason no one seems to put any effort into it.

Wouldn't they want to put more effort in at that point, since Marvel Studios would have to pay the creator something?

This, money. They care very little about fans, the state of the industry or even some of their properties.All for the money.

I don't blame Marvel, I blame the mindset of people who think that if they can shove their messages in their stories, they can change the world, which unfortunately makes people believe "Message > Story", and if you don't like their story, you're sexist, racist, etc. And it's not just Marvel. I remember debating someone about The Force Awakens, and the point he kept going back to over and over was "But it's good to have a female lead character" and started to talk about Luke and stuff that I had to shout "I'm not talking about the fucking main character!" People these days are so obsessed with representation that they just don't care about the story, they care about how good said characters look, and that's exactly Marvel's problem now. EVERY Female Hero has to be a paragon of feminism. EVERY Minority Hero has to be top dog. Except for the characters who aren't popular. They can just rot in a ditch.

We've entered a period of post plot driven storytelling and more character focus pieces. Didn't get the action you wanted this time? Don't worry, I'm sure the next episode/issue/movie will deliver it. Oh wait, it just got canceled! Better star all over again and hope it does better this time!

You know...it's really sad because I'm looking at what you just said and it nails it so well...

I also wonder if there's a mandate where they just use less characters now because they have to pay royalties otherwise.

Not him, but I think it applies in this case. The idea that they are grossly incompetent seems in this case to fit even better than that they have any sort of plan.

>I also wonder if there's a mandate where they just use less characters now because they have to pay royalties otherwise.
They literally took Fantastic Four out of circulation due to not having the movie IP rights at the same time as making a naked attempt to replace X-Men/Mutants with Inhumans and banning ( for a time ) the creation of NEW mutant characters ( because the IP would automatically go to the X-Men franchise holders ).

On the other side of things you had:
marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Lila_Rhodes_(Earth-616)

The preexisting young woman of color who was the niece of James"Rhodey" Rhodes ( War Machine/Iron Patriot ) who was a mechanical genius and familiar with his armor ... but Bendis created a NEW character-sue in Riri so he could self-inset his adopted black daughter and, ya know, royalties.

Modern Marble's just a shit-show from the top down these days, desu.

>so obsessed with representation that they just don't care about the story
The phrase you're looking for is:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtue_signalling

It's why Liberals tried to defend the new Ghostbusters even though it was clearly a crap movie and it's also how you get a Conservative Republican Congress Critter insisting the we need the 10 Commandments posting in classrooms ( and trying to pass a law to do just that, because fuck the 1st Amendment and the Establishment Clause ) ... and then he can't even name half of them when asked ( he literally got 3 out of 10 before giving up ).

cc.com/video-clips/6tm6zq/the-colbert-report-exclusive---better-know-a-district---georgia-s-8th---lynn-westmoreland

That just reminds me of that conversation I had where every criticism of The Force Awakens I had was always countered with "But main character female"

Hell, my sister is even really annoyed how much people liked Wonder Woman, especially those who "cried" over the female presence. It really feels like the world just has constant amnesia and doesn't remember anything outside popular circles.

With the success of the MCU, Marvel has been really popular with casuals and mainstream. They make a shit ton of money in movies and merchandise. But not comics. They're trying to bring in people that don't read comics and that's what synergy is about. There's proof that it does work but rarely lasts for a long time. It's when a movie comes out and everyone wants to buy the comics. But then the movie fade from people's memories and then the sales drop back down.

Marvel is doing exactly what Nintendo did with the Wii. They found a new audience and turned away the usual fans. Then when the new audience lose interest and find something else to love, the company is left with a shriveled fanbase and basically have to grovel to get them to come back.

This leads to what Marvel is sort of trying to do with Legacy. But they want their diversity characters to stick around. Marvel has been pushing away fans by dumping fan favorites in favor of new characters that people really don't like. And that goes on top of the problems they've had for several years of constant events and relaunches. All the comes back to bite them right when DC does Rebirth and dominates while printing significantly less ongoings than Marvel.

tl;dr Marvel wanted the casuals and pissed off the hardcore fans, now they want the hardcore fans back while still trying to get the casuals

You'll see, 2020 is gonna be the reveal of some grand kekaiku

We're gonna get a crisis on infinite earths tier story and everything gonna be ok

That's the part that's so screwy to me. Marvel clearly wants a casual audience, they clearly want the people watching the movies to start buying the comics.

But they go about doing that by making the comic books NOTHING LIKE the movies. The superheroes are all totally different people right now.

>>Know a girl who goes on and on about progressive stuff in media.
>>Fawns over comics when they do progressive shit.
>>Give her my Captain Marvels and Mockingbird issues
>>She never reads them.

>t. Autismo

DC is doing the exaxt same thing. The only reason they didn't get praise before is because journalists are fundamentally normalfag and only know what they see on the screen, i. e. MCU and DCU. Now that Wonder Woman made a gorrillion dollars at the box office and was totes empowering I LITERALLY CLAPPED AND CRIED WHEN I SAW ALL THOSE WOMEN ON SCREEN AT THE SAME TIME expect DC to get similar praise.

Social justice is just the hip trend of the 2010s that'll fizzle out again by 2025 like these things always do. Saying that virtue signaling is the cancer killing tv/comics/vidya is like saying that disco killed music. The ultimate driver of these things is and always will be greed, the constant race for the bottom of executives that are very good at making money and not so very good at making good art/entertainment.

Anyone telling you otherwise is just a political fag trying to radicalize you to follow their little cabal of retards.

Because the synergy didn't work and it seems a lot of sjws are running it now and are forcing their views and politics into comics. There's still synergy due to movie rights but I will bet money that the push is from Disney and Ike. Marvel comics may want synergy but they're not going to abandon popular franchises unless someone higher up tells them to.

There's also the lack of talent with many leaving for indie work and some going to DC.

Virtue signalling isn't a new trend. It's a cancer that's been around since the dawn of time. Excaberated by social media. It's all about being SEEN as a good person with the least amount of effort. Sometimes at the expense of others.

>Social justice is just the hip trend of the 2010s that'll fizzle out again by 2025 like these things always do.
YES! Just like women can no longer vote, blacks are back in the back of the bus, and the gays are closeted and faking heterosexual marrages THE WAY GAWD INTENDED!

Or, maybe, you're just a fuckwit.

>posting colbert
MUH TWO SCOOPS

This. Anyone blaming SJWs, casuals, synergy or whatever else is being short sighted. These are all problems that Marvel has, sure,, but they're symptoms, not the root cause. Marvel has been about short term profits at long term expense for decades now, and it all comes back to greed, from the top on down.

Does anyone really think that Perlmutter pulled a "no more editors" because he was chasing after the casual market? Or that constant relaunches, back to back events, overshipping, single issues being priced upwards to $9.99, etc. is all because of tumblr?

No one can deny that Marvel is fucking about with virtue signalling, but that's a desperation move on their part. Their real issues boil down to being greedy well past the point of stupidity.

>>>/genderstudies101/

The progress social justice makes stays, but the periods in which it is "hip" to be progressive change. I'd argue that even the 60's weren't necessarily that time and I was more making a reference to the early 20th century reformers.

I'm not saying that we're heading into another 50's or 80's, but I do see fourth wave feminism and other similar movements either changing gear (like I see with a lot of new focus on male feminism stuff like toxic masculinity) or sort of shifting focus entirely (like how LGBT focus, both for and against, has shifted from sexuality towards gender identity).

...

They think they can live off of MCU bux and make their sjw propaganda, even if that means no one wants to read their shit.

Probably. They crashed the industry in the 90s. Maybe they think if they crash it again that Disney will bail them out (and they would) thus allowing them to be the only successful comic company.

You realize Disney has nothing what-so-ever to do with the Marvel Comics division right? Yeah they own it, but don't fucking do anything about it.

You have no idea how the dynamic at Marvel works do you? The Movies and Comics have been virtually separated by Disney and Fiege.

Or maybe Ike is just a Jewish stereotype on a rampage and refuses to admit he is wrong until it is too late.

Liefeld and Image tried destroying the industry but Valiant and Wizard really did

>Marvel is playing some big long con with social justice and bad comics
Social justice shit is in a very small minority of their major comics. Kamala being the new Captain Marvel is no more SJW than the current Green Lanterns.

Right-wing death squads would meet the fate of that guy with the Pepe drawings getting choked

And all the while Diamond Distribution is there stirring the whole pot for all eternity.

The last time I brought up Lila, someone suggested it might be because Marvel doesn't want to pay any royalties to Ales Kot, who's apparently such a big asshole no one wants to work with him anymore.

I moved on. I quit Marvel and I quit the Alien franchise.

I don't buy products from assclowns.

Those were the right-wing death squads choking Pepe guy.

They hate alt-right memers almost as much as they hate SJWs.

We still have the Hal Jordan book.
And I would argue Green Lanterns isn't as much SJW in your faces than Kamala Marvel.

Baz might a muslim and we see it with his family but he actually do stuff with alien.There is a good dynamic with Jessica and character development.

Kamala being a Muslim is her ONLY characteristic. She just preach endlessly. And her cancer isn't limited to her book.

I honestly like Baz, because he is a hero first and a minority second.

gwenpool is a non sjw female lead character. read her comics you guys!
youtube.com/watch?v=GhQOqhV9jFM&t=330s

>What is Marvels end game?
complete domination and they're doing an amazing job at it

although they're going up agains DShit so it's not like it's a challenge

>Kamala being a Muslim is her ONLY characteristic. She just preach endlessly. And her cancer isn't limited to her book.

It's like you've never read her comic.

Her main characteristic is being a cute hyper fangirl.

Oh god, I forgot the art was that shitty.
And the dialog in this page is cringy.

And it isn't cute, it is annoying.

Their goal is money, just like every other company.

The difference between DC and Marvel is the way they try to achieve growing the industry.

DC plays safe bets and is more keen to stability, while Marvel plays a high amount of risky bets,expecting that even 1 or 2 will succeed in order to drive them forward.

What's it like to have no soul?

You just need to have some sex man

>using MLK for b8

Kindly choke to death

>Social justice shit is in a very small minority of their major comics

Is that why every indie comic is nothing but liberal faggotry?

Pretty good actually.
I can enjoy book with real art.
Ethan Van Sciver for example. I don't know who commit the piece of trash you call a page here but it is worthless.

>muh tinfoils

>house style
>good

>Employing tumblr artist
>Good

Why does pretending to be dumber than you really are bring such satisfaction, user?

What is Sup Forumss endgame? Are they purposely trying to destroy Sup Forums or is their goal even more nefariousness?

>enjoying a 90s flashback
>steroid cases with veins popping everywhere

they are trying to get younger female readers. doing a shit job at it though. they are just mass producing shit until one of it becomes successful enough

>and then carol starts speaking in pakistani

I've read her comic here and there and it's pretty harmless but one of the main things about the book is her faith and family. Remember that her best friend wanted to get with her but her brother didn't want it to happen because the friend was white.

It did it well but don't pretend her background is a huge part of her. I'd say her fangirlism is the second biggest thing about her.

I know what it's like to have false hope being the only thing to keep me going too. Just makes things worse in the end...

What do you guys have more faith in: the superhero genre of films, or the comics medium as a whole?

People bemoan the death of the comics industry, but I have a bit more faith in its longevity than that of today's popular film genre.

I wonder what they're going to do when the MCU gets too impenetrable for new viewers to get into and too convoluted for old viewers to keep up with. Will they reboot? Or will they go the way of the western as the culture gets behind a new brand of popular media?

And the tits, don't forget the tits.

HAHAHA fucking drone faggots. This is what you get for Man of Murder posting

Writers and artists are paid up front. If their stories get turned into movie scripts they don't get extra money. Ike the Kike does.

Marvel Comics treats employees like shit, so mostly only shitty people work there now.

They will reboot when lowering sales make it less profitable when having to pay actors more money. I don't think the bubble will burst but the cost will get too close to the profit and Disney will stop the whole thing and go back to individual franchises.

>the way of the western
The Western dominated the box office from the inception of film until the 70's.

They can just phase out characters played by expensive actors like RDJ especially since they'll be getting tired of being in these movies.

>People bemoan the death of the comics industry

Fuck that, the death of the current industry would be the best thing for comics as a whole. Fuck having a monthly release of a story where you have to either pad it or rush it to fit a stupid schedule, both in story and art-wise. It's like bemoaning the death of books being published chapter-by-chapter in newspapers instead of being printed as whole pieces. I'm sure there were people complaining about that in victorian coffee-houses.

The future of comics is clearly going to be like books, where a whole story is sold in a package after it's completed, instead of being churned out on a monthly basis. The ones releasing each bit as it's finished will be relegated to webcomics. And it will improve the whole medium because nobody will be buying "books" if they've got shitty art backed by a decent story or shitty story backed by decent art, forcing them to produce better-quality stuff that isn't just capes fighting other capes because that's what suits thinks the kids want.

it's funny because sales have been declining across the board, and will eventually peter out since nobdoy fucking reads comics anymore.

They could make so much more money if they actually gave a shit about thier product.

>Remember that her best friend wanted to get with her but her brother didn't want it to happen because the friend was white.

Not because Bruno's white, but because he's not Muslim.

If she wasn't a fangirl and just the Muslim character, she wouldn't be so popular.

I dunno if that's particularly true when you look at modern marvel, they might not wanna work with him because MUH PPOLITICAL VIEWS.

>Valiant
wut

People keep buying their shit anyway,while they don't stay behind DC in sales for an entire year they wil not change.

Comics readership is declining but no knowing how low it can get while still being sustainable depending on where the industry is willing to cut corners.

>Hiring writers and artists off tumblr and twitter? Can probably get them much cheaper than industry vets.
>it's okay when DC does it

>DC plays safe bets and is more keen to stability, while Marvel plays a high amount of risky bets,expecting that even 1 or 2 will succeed in order to drive them forward.
How the hell does Marvel play riskier bets than DC?

DC has their main imprint of cape titles geared for mass appeal but are more than happy to launch really experimental low selling niche titles for artistic purposes that range from mature and strange (Young Animal), paranoid and militaristic (Wildstorm), to just plain out there conceptually (Hanna Barbera). And that's not getting into Vertigo, webseries and their really good DC Superhero Girls stuff which just skyrocketed. They try and cover nearly every niche and reader while Marvel literally just has their main cape universe and Star Wars.

Don't confuse incompetence with a nack for experimentalism.

Everyone says "Modern Marvel" is catering to SJWs, and Kot is as SJW as they come. If anything, you'd think he'd be their poster child.

>The future of comics is clearly going to be like books, where a whole story is sold in a package after it's completed, instead of being churned out on a monthly basis

That's how it works with eurocomics. The downside is that they produce 50 pages a year instead of 20 pages a month. Clearly this leads to a very different pacing.

Kot cant sell a book to save his life.

It's rather modern Marvel has done the opposite, their top talent has suddenly found their inner SJW despite you know many of them having past history of dumbshit comments and action that would offend most SJWs.

>Wildstorm
>paranoid and militaristic

>that's not getting into Vertigo,
yeah Vertigo, who was butraped by WB and forced to give their main character to DC (Constantine).
The DC just cannot make the same money as Marvel.

Sure, but I'm wondering what about his political views (aside from the parts that make him an asshole, like trying to destroy Edmonson's career because Kot disagreed with his politics) would make Marvel not want to work with him?

>What is Marvels end game?
>This is what you get for Man of Murder posting
Dominating yet another month?
blog.comichron.com/2017/06/comics-orders-rebound-in-five-week-may.html

>Purposefully priced 25%-33% higher.
>Purposefully publishes more titles.
>Purposefully publishes more events, #1s and specials.
>Dominating.

>i-i-it doesn't count!

>the goalposts, I shall move them!
Hahahahaha!

Don't feel bad, kiddo: when DC poops out that next set of Lenticular covers with it's next Big Event it might ( might ) manage to scrape a win for a month or so before things go back to normal.

Of course if that happens you'll start a thread to crow about how it's all ogre and Marble's donefor and and and it doesn't matter that it's just because of Event Hype because ( say it with me now ) "IT'S OK WHEN DC DOES IT!"

I tried to get in to reading comics a few years ago. I already bought graphic novels and the like, and collected a few issues as a kid, but trying to penetrate as an outsider is near-impossible. Reading into it online to get started, I saw every hero seemed to be relaunched quite a few times over the past few years, there seemed to be two or more people playing the part of each recognisable hero, frequent events would break the flow of a line and insist on knowledge of unrelated lines to fully understand the story often stretching back a few years, and to top it all off the Marvel website is no help at all in understanding what is being released and what I need to read to catch myself up. Honestly with the success of the MCU it amazes me that Marvel haven't slowed down, refocused and tried to ease new readers in with a simple entry point and kept everything as well formatted as possible. You add on to this the legacy character bullshit and forced SJW moralising and it's no wonder that DC is selling much better.

>inflating numbers to maintain their false pretenses of superiority

Absolutely pathetic

That article literally says that everyone in the entire industry is doing well but Marvel, who is holding everyone back but they hope this event launch will help them. But I guess as long as they pull every sales trick in the book to look good for one month it won't at all catch up to them at some point and all the grumblings of angry fans and retailers aren't real.

>That article literally says that everyone in the entire industry is doing well but Marvel,
"Marvel's performance, about which much was written this winter, improved year-over-year — although, following a pattern we've seen in 2017, the rest of the market improved by more. "

So ... the market leader year in and year out is doing even better saleswise; but they didn't go up *quite* as much as the others ( you know: the ones dragging ass from behind? )

OH SHIT, YOU'RE RIGHT! IT'S OGRE!!!

How much overshipping this month?

...

>take your market domination and leave me to my shame
Hey, hey, now! Don't cry. I mean: Wonder Woman is doing great in the theaters so you've FINALLY got a movie that doesn't fucking suck!

Of course it's killing your whole narrative about movie critics and normies and whatever other excuses you've come up with for always being The Mouse's Bitch; but you've gotta be used to the taste of that cock by now.

>It's all just for short-term profit.

Don't forget the spinoffs. Black Panther did well (it's not my kind of book but it did well). So the editor immediately launches two Black Panther spinoff books.

But the spinoff books didn't sell, because no one wants more than one Black Panther or Doctor Strange book at a time. And then the sales on the parent book took a hit because the spinoffs just diluted its sales.

Editors aren't (mostly) stupid, they have to know that the more spinoffs you launch, the more you risk hurting the original book. But they have to do this because corporate policy is to flood the market with as much crap as they can.

>Events sell better both as floppies and as trades.
Eh. While events do give Marvel those sweet sweet (You)s and dollarydoos for their floppy sales, their trade game isn't as strong as DC's. Marvel has one best selling trade and that's the first Civil War. Everything else is just fluff.

>their trade game isn't as strong as DC's.
>implying Capcom fighting games aren't superior to Nether

Hiring shills for one cent a week? Of course.

>Her main characteristic is being a cute hyper fangirl.
She hasn't been a fangirl in a long time. Since she joined the Avengers, she's been propped up as an A-lister, and since Civil War 2, she lost her idol in Carol Danvers. Kampala is no longer the wide-eyed amateur in her early run. She's a Marvel veteran who appears in all sorts of books preaching her social politics and telling people to vote for Hillary a day after the elections.

what?
Marvel doesn't do well in bookstore/amazon sales in comparison to DC/Image/DarkHorse/etc, what does that have to do with fighting games?