DC's Crises

What does Sup Forums think about them? Are they all terrible? Are some of them good?

Original is very good.
Final Crisis can be...difficult, but overall I like it.
Don't care for the others.

Worst one is Secret Wars.

Final Crisis is great.
Infinite Crisis is very entertaining.
Original is a slog, but fun to read at least once.

>DC's Crises
>Secret Wars

It was a dig at how the new Secret Wars was both a shameless Crisis ripoff and generally shitty.

DC fans are incapable of true self-assessment. It has to turn into a criticism of Marvel even if it's not relevant to the discussion.

damn...

I like Final Crisis more for the impression it left me with more than the actual plotline.
CoIE has a special place in my heart because one of my earliest comics was one of the main CoIE issues

>like Final Crisis
What the fuck was even happening in Final Crisis? I mean, Darkseid was somehow dying yet somehow capable of almost taking the universe with him and there's some weird multiverse eating vampire at the end who just seems like he came out of nowhere.

COIE is good.
Zero Hour has some great tie-ins and zero issues.
Infinite Crisis has good moments but largely feels soulless.
Final Crisis is disjointed.

>What the fuck was even happening in Final Crisis?
Darkseid died but fell backwards in time, creating a four-dimension black hole. Mandrakk was trying to collapse other universe so that he could become the sole Monitor again.

Final Crisis is the casual's rabbit hole.
It got me into comics that had more on their minds than Geoff Johns esque stuff.

Haven't read CoIE.
Infinite Crisis was mediocre but very confusing at times.
Final Crisis is amazing.

Why is the villain of these things almost always a giant dude?

I just picked up the deluxe Crisis on Infinite Earths
Anything I should read/buy before hand? I've been splurging on trades lately

Darkseid finally got the Anti-Life equation but was defeated.
Darkseid was dying but since he is a god and intrinsically linked with the universe, his death was acting like a blackhole that was destroying space and time. Batman had shot him with a super bullet that both poisoned Darkseid AND traveled back in time to hit Orion.

Batman was blasted by Omega Beams and is sent through time in a Quantum Leap sort of deal, each time jump building energy for a metaphysical time bomb attached to Batman like a thetan.

Meanwhile, the Dark Monitor was feeding off the multiverse like a vampire. The heroes have to reboot the universe to fix it.

The book should have everything you need to know. Even if characters show up that you aren't familiar with it doesn't matter to the grand scheme of the narrative.

There was a long build up to CoIE throughout the DC titles but really none of that even amounts to anything other than educating readers at the time about the kind of multiverse shenanigans that modern readers are all too familiar with.

Fucking time loops.

>CoIE
Good
>ZhCIT
Mediocre
>Identity Crisis
Terrible
>Infinite Crisis
Good
>Final Crisis
Great

Crisis on Infinite Earths is actually a pretty decent comic.

Zero Hour was mediocre, but produced a handful of REALLY strong tie-in issues (Flash in particular).

Identity Crisis should be avoided at all cost.

Infinite Crisis isn't bad I guess.

Final Crisis makes no fucking sense, but some of the issues are entertaining as fuck nonetheless.

Flashpoint just sucked.

No one ever talks about the ORIGINAL Crises.

Really fantastic stuff that just got better and better every year. I recommend them to any fan of DC because they really give you an appreciation of DC's history.

Why are Marvelcucks incapable of taking a joke? I thought they loved quips?

One or two of these have spiked in price. I've been keeping my eye out for the full run.

Zero Hour also really picked up once Hal actually fucking showed up (which was only like the last two issues)

I unironically think Identity Crisis is the best of them all [Spoiler]maybe because it's an actually decent story that doesn't need to throw in cosmic bullshit asspulls to retcon stuff[/Spoiler]

Can somebody explain to be the multiversal/ continuity impacts of the various Crisises?

REMINDER
Identity Crisis is not a real Crisis

>The heroes have to reboot the universe to fix it.
how much better would the Nu52 be if it came out the time it was meant to?

I liked the original and Infinite Crisis. Final Crisis was a fucking disaster and didn't really make any sense but it was still entertaining

All that stuff about the bleed, the Super Young Heroes, and Metron's chair was nuts... it was more like a New Gods event than a Crisis sequel IMO. Funny that Flashpoint and Rebirth had more impact on DC continuity than an actual "Crisis" branded event did

Infinite crisis wasn't that great, but the countdown to it and 52 were both fantastic

Yep, neither is Multiple Earths. It just got renamed to that to sell more trades

yeah 52 was great since it was just a weekly Booster Gold book

The actual multiverse crisis part of it only took place in the superman tie in and the very last issue.
Maybe if Morrison included more of the other worlds that we're facing their own world shattering crisises, and included them more in the final mandrakk battle

CoIE: No more Multiverse. Just one Earth.
Infinite Crisis: Multiverse is back, several dead people are now alive, events have been fucked around.
Zero Hour: Who cares?
Identity Crisis: Batman doesn't trust anybody, because brainwashing. Sue Dibny and Firestorm are dead. Lex is heading up a Supervillain Union and using the fact JLA brainwashed a guy to get people on his side. Ralph is left to grieve which eventually brings him to the events of 52, which are pretty much the only reason to read Identity Crisis.
Final Crisis: Darkseid is dead. Mary Marvel has a corruption fetish. Multiverse has been explained in 52.

COIE basically merged Earth-1 and Earth-2 to one New Earth, effectively erasing their timelines so while similar they're different. It also killed other realities
Zero Hour also erased other realities
Infinite Crisis Multiverse is back
Identity Crisis which isn't technically a crisis basically made Batman into a more paranoid nut
Final Crisis has Darkseid finding the Anti Life equation and dying thus having the universe collapse but was save by Super singing and Miracle Machine
Flash point rebooted Earth-0 to a younger one
Convergence erased the events of COIE

Lets not talk about Convergence

Countdown to Final Crisis is better then people tend to admit and Final Crisis itself is kind of pointless as a Crisis and makes more sense as a universe-wide event since Superman just ended up recreating the DC universe as it was before the Final Crisis. Wasted opportunity, we could have had Nu52 then instead then by Flashpoint.

COIE is probably one of the best when you take the time to fully understand the implications. It's a bit long and slow at the beginning tho.

COIE destroyed the multiverse. However, the LOSH required the existence of a Superboy (which Man of Steel rendered non-canon) so almost immediately there was a "pocket universe".

Zero Hour was an attempt to clean up continuity, especially Hawkman and LOSH which both got rebooted. It was also an impetus for several new (Darkstars) and revamped (Aquaman) properties. It also a tool to erase several controversial DC happenings like the Team Titan or Atlantean Peej getting knocked up by her own grandfather.

Infinite Crisis restored a multiverse of 52 Earths.

Final Crisis killed the New Gods and began the Fifth World (already hinted at in Genesis) and was intended as the lead-in to a proto-nu52 reboot but faltered. Ultimately it did nothing.

Convergence then went back and altered COIE. The multiverse survived but now is composed of clusters of 52 worlds and inter-cluster travel seems difficult (although Dark Days/Nights might change that).

You fucking dumbass, "Crisis on Multiple Earths" is a collection of all of the original Crises.

Also Doc Magnus got to shine in a prominent supporting role and that was great too.

It honestly would've made sense, but people would get really upset about it still.

Didn't COIE also introduce the Charlton and Captain Marvel universes into the mainstream DCU?

Yeah I think you're right.

Infinite crisis is let down due to how fantastic everything building up to and following it was

>Convergence then went back and altered COIE. The multiverse survived but now is composed of clusters of 52 worlds and inter-cluster travel seems difficult (although Dark Days/Nights might change that

Ugh, they really need to go back to the old Post Crisis set up of One Earth for the main continuity and everything else is an Elseworlds.

...

>Everything has to be about mahvel
Settle down, true believer, I'm about to go Excelsior on your ass.

y-you just didn't understaaaand it plen

>more on their minds
>Grant Morrison
>more on their minds
You mean cock? Cock is the answer, innit?

I liked zero hour with Hal showing his true colors and getting all up the universe's ass. Too bad that turbofaggot Johns had to bring him back for some silver age wankery.

Bump for later posting

Here is the thing: I unabashedly love Infinite Crisis and it's build-up
I really don't understand why some people think it's complicated and inaccessible. I've started reading DC during Final Crisis/Batman RIP/Rage of the Red Lanterns, then went back a few weeks later and read IC, and IMO it was really easy to pick up the clues on what was happening. But this is really subjective.
I think the meta-commentary in IC about heroes not acting like heroes any more is quite smart, and Johns unfairly gets a lot of bad rep for making the DC universe edgier.
Yes, there is quite a bit of violence in his works, but if you look at his pre-IC output (GL, Flash, JSA etc.) his heroes are still heroes in the classic sense of the word. He isn't responsible for stuff like the Identity Crisis mindwipers, Azbats, Byrne's murdering Superman, Parahal, Jason returning or the asshole Batman of Brubaker/Rucka.
One of these days I'm going to do a mega-Infinite Crisis build-up and tie-ins storytime (starting from Public Enemies where it's first mentioned, thru Identity Crisis, GL Rebirth, Planet Heist, the Death and Return of Donna Troy, the Secret of Barry Allen up to Countdown to IC, Crisis of Conscience, Rann-Thanagar War, Omac Project, Sacrifice and then the main event).
We are talking about hundreds of comics, so it's quite the undertaking, but it's an exceptionally wild ride to a well-knit event.

It's a shame Final Crisis was so terribly executed
I wouldn't call the other two high literature, but at least they are coherent
DC really dropped the ball with FC, the build-up was botched, there were massive delays and shitty fill-in art, and it felt even more disjointed than Morrison's usual work
Also, remember how it looked like the Hawks died and Aquaman returned during FC, but both were retconned a couple issues later?
Or how FC was never referenced again (outside Morrison's work)? At least CoIE and IC had massive consequences.
Or how Libra was never mentioned again?
Or how it was supposed to lead to a Fifth World by Morrison which never happened?

>gwenpool threads always hit bump limit
>no one talks about crisis comics

waifu-bait comics were a mistake

52nd post

>Aquaman returned during FC,
I forgot about that. Maybe that was Aquaman from some other Earth. Supergirl from Earth 10 fell through into Earth 0 during FC.

Yeah, you could say that it was a 'multiversal leakage' or somesuch, but I don't think that was their original intention

It did. Also technically it folded in Earth-X (not the Marvel one, but the Earth where Uncle Sam and the Freedom Fighters fought Nazis) which honestly makes no sense based on what Roy Thomas wrote in All Star Squadron, but then again I thought Thomas made a mistake in making Earth-X's Quality Comics heroes coming from Earth-2.

Flashpoint was probably the worst
Wally's last appearance for five years was getting frozen to death
The New 52 as a whole was done for movie synergy, which is what's fucking Marvel's comics division at the moment.
It's not going to be looked at the way Crisis on Infinite Earths was.

COIE was GOAT. Infinite Crisis was mostly tolerable. Mostly.

Final Crisis was complete incoherent gibbering baboon shit written by spastic deviantart-using edgelord monkey on meth. If this was Russia everyone involved includiog partents, relatives, friends and pets would be shot. And unforgivable what they did to Mary Marvel.

No, Identity Crisis just needed to throw in normal ever day ass pulls.

This isn't even funny.
Sup Forums is so sexually frustrated, it's just annoying.

>Or how FC was never referenced again (outside Morrison's work)?
Why else would you read FC?
Final Crisis is part of Morrison's DC tapestry much more than it is with the Johns showrunning aspect.

bringing a flame-thrower "just in case" is normal everyday stuff?

Mary Marvel wasn't slutted up in FC though.
That was Countdown.
And besides, that was fun.

>Yes, it is cock.
I knew it!

lame
This is why Sup Forums (and Sup Forums) are so bad. So much sexual obsession that isn't on topic to the discussion.

haha penis

I have a soft spot for the original Crisis but only 'cause I grew up with those comics. Couldn't tell you about the others.

>And besides, that was fun.

Interesting, I always thought Infinite Crisis did that for a lot of people.
That's probably a sign of doing event comics the right way, then.

That was the biggest problem with Final Crisis. The ultimate finale only made sense with the tie-in which is generally a no no for these event books.

Anti-Monitor was giant. Superboy and Mandrakk not so much. The point is to give it an epic feel to it, and being a consequence to one another, so if you mean large-scale then yeah that's kind of the point.

Same guy here.
Infinite Crisis was just a spin off of Johns' Teen Titans for me.

That was only an issue for the floppies.
Every collected edition of FC puts the Superman Beyond issues (and SUBMIT) into it.

It's meant to make it feel interactive with the readers and try to explore what 'evil gods' would mean. The idea is that the story affects the readers just as much as it affects the characters.

Final Crisis is basically what coming down from an acid trip feels like-
Time feels like it's looping as everything seems to be deteriorating around you and it feels like nothing could stop it.

I wouldn't doubt it if that was intentional.

It also tied in with Rock of Ages, Seven Soldiers, and all the other New Gods stuff Morrison had been working on since the 90's. It very much was a New Gods thing, but also meant to explain the monitor's roles.

Things got that bad because the monitors, now split into multiple beings due to the return of the multiverse in the shattered way it happened, stopped being what was essentially the janitor of the multiverse and developed their own personalities. Nix Uotan was supposed to protect that universe, but due to their newfound bureaucracy was exiled and the world was left defenseless.

Seven Soldeirs is so much more ambitious than Infinite Crisis.
I love Johns and I like/love a lot of stuff he's done, but he really isn't the most high minded thinker.

Yeah, it was basically a link to tie up loose ends. Not that it wasn't fun as hell at times. The Freedom Fighter's murder is still one of my favorite villain group scenes.

Are you 12?

I always felt it was more of a 'fight against change' story. Lex and Superboy sort of representing the jaded readers who thought everything was shit since Crisis happened and trying to recreate this world they'd idealized, but lost sight of. Hence why modern, darker, Joker murdering Lex in an alley was sort of poetic justice.

( So basically, the same fucking readers we still have today)

I do like IC a lot, and one of the big reasons is the art.
They were doing a TON of shallow focus shots and cinematic looking stuff all around.
That's what big budget comics should look like.

Johns is essentially that fanboy that finally made it. He does cool stuff with the characters he grew up and loved, but he's never really seen it as less of a thing he loved and more of an actual story. Even with his Lantern stories, a lot of it was a throwback to Moore's run but amped up.

I meant to say that Final Crisis was more ambitious than Infinite Crisis, but SS applies too.

Adding a spectrum of Lanterns was the best thing to ever happen to Green Lantern.

Yeah I said it.

More like an autism spectrum.

damn...

>appreciation of DC's history.
This is the reason why its one of my favorites. It could not have worked without George Perez's art. Same reason I like the Busiek/Perez Avengers run. Both seem to love and respect the history of the characters

Even the little things like Black Adam killing Psycho Pirate and the broken trinity at the ruins of the moon base.
Johns is fucking great at making things feel like a Blockbuster movie. He has his flaws, but being boring ain't one of them.

I think it's because of all the Johns comics that the DCEU doesn't get me so buttflustered.
I'm used to bombastic DC.

Honestly, MoS felt more like a modern DC story than the Reeves movies in a lot of ways.

COIE got me into comics.

I'm not saying otherwise. It created a shitload of potential for stories and characters in all the DCU, but most of it, from the Five Conversions, to Nekron, to Volthoom, hell, even The Predator were him tweaking things that were already there and tying it together. That's not necessarily a bad thing, mind you.

Larfleeze is OC.

Honestly, I kinda blame Nolan.
He tried to make Batman more realostic and serious. He's a dude who fights immortals and crocodile men.
A guy at full human potential that fights monster men and sentient clay.
Take away the fantasy elements and it just feels like a diluted Bond flick.

>blame
I was saying that I like gritty DC.
>not exclusively, mind you

Johns himself stated that he's basically Daffy Duck. Again, not a bad thing.

A moment of silence for Larfleeze's great New 52 solo.
A good comic, gone too soon.

Ah, I thought you meant more along the lines of Superman Returns and that whole trilogy.

I don't have a problem with dark and gritty if done right. I liked Man of Steel, but everything felt so saturated. Even if it was just his costume it would have made him pop out more. (Also I'm tired of Zod and Luthor. Give us Braniac or Parasite, or hell, even Atomic Skull)
Also that Pa Kent thing kinda felt unnecessary.

I felt like the color palette gave the movie an icy feel, almost fortress of solitude-ish.
Like a commentary on Supes' loner quality in the movie.

Fucking finally, some genuine discussion, a day after the thread started.
While its true that Johns isn't the most 'high-minded thinker', like I've said here , he occasionally strikes gold with his ideas.
Another smart bit from him was the meta-commentary in Blackest Night about constant resurrections. It was an elegant solution, saying that there was a force (Nekron), which allowed resurrections, so it could use these people later as a booby trap.
And IIRC, he was the first to give Superman a 'son' in main continuity (I'm thinking of Chris Kent), which resonated really well with the audience.
Also, I liked the Brainiac-probes idea (all the different Brainiacs over the years were probes), the 'Superboy being cloned from Lex' thing, and tying the different parts of the GL mythos into an emotional spectrum.
He gets a lot of shit for being just a dumb fanboy, but IMO he is pretty smart for figuring out all these in-universe connections.

True. In those terms it does fit the story.
Looking back, I think my biggest hang up with both that and a lot of comics at the time (coughcivilwarcough) is this idea that people are just stupidly hostile and ruled by their fear of things they don't understand.
...before last year I very much liked to think people were generally better than that.

>the 'Superboy being cloned from Lex' thing
I alwaysdid like this.
And the tone of his TT in general.
How Superboy comes downstairs in the tower in the middle of the night and Robin is on his laptop because he doesn't sleep normal hours.

yeah, he isn't a great, philosophical thinker like morrison, but there is a certain, genuine inventiveness to his work
i also admire him for trying to fix hawkman's history thru jsa/hawkman/brightest day
and all for nothing, because the new 52 once again fucked up his continuity

>and all for nothing, because the new 52 once again fucked up his continuity
Do we actually know the behind the scenes on that?
Why did the New 52 happen/who was responsible?