What went wrong?

What went wrong?

Everything?
The designs were pretty bad, the story was fucking retarded, and all of the characters get arbitrarily shuffled around like they were given to someone who had no idea who they were. Why did the nicest guy in Beast Wars turn into an angry hate-tank? It just took a fucking dump on everything Beast Wars had built up. Fuck I hated that show.

The most fundamental problem was that it tried to have TWO major themes at once, without doing either of them real justice.

Either go for the whole "restore balance between organic and cybernetic" on Cybertron route, or the "til all are one!" Megatron trying to combine all Sparks into himself theme.

I think that was the biggest stumbling block, and when that tripped them up by trying to make the cartoon bigger than they were capable of delivering, everything else was bound to be fucked up down the line.

This is what happens when you piss off Canada.

We won't go to war, we'll just sabotage our animation industry, and give the world even less stuff worth watching.

ITT butthurt people who didn't understand the amazing story OR people are mad that Dinobot died.

>The crew of the Axalon return safely to Cybertron
>They arrive to discover that Megatron's tampering with history DID have unexpected repercussion on the future, and that they planet is now ruled by the Tripredacus Council
>The planet is scoured by their Vehicon drones, keeping the citizenry in line
>Megatron learns that in this timeline, he still stole the Golden Disks and went back in time, but it was under the pretense of "undoing Vehicon rule and liberating the planet."
>He is quite literally a figure head for people to rally behind
>He is broken free from prison by some of his new disciples (including a Waspinator who was eventually brought back to Cybertron after the G1 bots woke up and returned to Cybertron themselves)
>These soldiers take beast forms as a way of emulating their leader and declaring their loyalty to him
>In retaliation, the Tripredacus Council begins virulent anti-organic propaganda to vilify Megatron and his followers, and unfortunately, that results in the Maximals being ostracized as well
>Optimus Primal and Megatron are now unwilling allies in a war not just to overthrow the COuncil, but simply to survive and defend other beastformers who suddenly find themselves targets of the government

Did I fix it?

DiDio did want it to be continuity heavy.

Nothing, it's much improved over Beast Wars. Got rid of the awful sense of humor, wasn't afraid to treat its audience like it had brains, had an intense ongoing plot rather than episode of the week drivel.

I find it hilarious that the Maximals didn't even transform, in a transformers show

They fucking meditated and magically morphed in a flash of light, in a TRANSFORMERS show

Why was this show so hated?

they got told not to watch beast wars

No. The most fundamental problem is that instead of having the same dudes write for it, they got a completely different staff who were told NOT to watch Beast Wars, so without context, Beast Machines just kind of went full retard with the Avatar plot.

Great show. Terrible sequel.

>Got rid of the awful sense of humor

What are you talking about?

BM Rattrap's entire shtick throughout the series was basically nonstop comedy relief "slipping on a banana peel" tier garbage.

DiDio told the writers not to worry about continuity. In fact, I think he explicitly forbade them from watching BW.

That said, the foreboding atmosphere and the designs of Vehicons were 10/10

>What went wrong

Literally nothing.

(You)

Is ti true that Didio is responsible for this being shit?

Deal with it mate.

Smart move on his part. Can't imagine how the show would have been if they had.

>"We must seek the balance, Megatron. Not just between organic and technological.. but between sworn enemies. Between you and I! Prepare... for reformatting."
>Five minute long gorilla fart

Why is it so fucking UGLY?

Who designed this show? What were their influences? Who okayed this?

What went wrong?
Well, they had a neat story, but they were told not to watch Beast Wars and every character was awful because of it.

Except Jetstorm.

Would you prefer exposed brains and buck teeth?

All the designs were complete shit. Rattrap, Blackarachnia and the bat were by far the worst. They are so fucking ugly.

I want to rub my dick on Blackarachnia's forehead.

Of his three designs, that's Rattrap's only good one.

Yes.

Yesss...

But you're wrong. His face is creepy as fuck, and removing legs and giving him just wheels was just fucking stupid

You must frighten as easily as a TV Tropes editor if you think that face is creepy.

Not bad, but a bit forgiving to Megatron for all the cruelty he's capable of committing.

That's why Megatron has to make a selfishly heroic sacrifice at the end, allowing him to live on forever as a martyr in the memory of his people.

It had a chance to be progressive with it's environmental messages but it fucked it all up with it's violent scenes. I can't let my wife's kids watch this macho garbage.

>and all of the characters get arbitrarily shuffled around like they were given to someone who had no idea who they were.

>Dan DiDio (born October 13, 1959) was an executive at Mainframe Entertainment assigned to the Transformers franchise during the third season of Beast Wars. Dan is best known for being the producer who informed Marv Wolfman that Beast Wars had no ties to the original series and to do as he pleased with Generation 1 continuity when outlining Beast Machines, and then instructed Bob Skir and Marty Isenberg to disregard any previous incarnations of the series in writing Beast Machines, as Beast Wars was too "continuity-heavy".

The bad guys were always the best part of the show. and the next logical step of Megatron's megalomania and paranoia. Yeeeeeesssss

Beast Machines traded in a badass rock soundtrack for garbage goth club music

Sinful in itself, and a true trademark of why the late 90s is pretty much always inferior to the early 90s

You're a fucking jerkoff. All Beast Machines designs were crap and NOT Transformers looking, aside from some of the Vehicons TOYS, not even the show versions which were all crap

I can't fap to this!

All the characters were such little bitches. Besides Cheetor.

It was like reverse Thundercats 2011.

Don't care. Still love this show for more glorious BW Megatron and hail marying a final victory at the last second.

You're a fucking jerkoff. All Beast Wars designs were crap and NOT Transformers looking, aside from some of the Machine Wars TOYS, not even the show versions which were all crap

Beast Wars designes were VERY Transformers looking....they were Transformers with organic animal forms, different? Sure, but it was a different take on the SAME aesthetic

Beast Machines designs are completely out there, they aren't humanoid in their robot forms in the slightest, they're fucking mutant animals, most of the Beast Machines would fit better in a fucking edgy version of TMNT than Transformers

Beast Wars was a new version of Transformers, Beast Machines wasn't Transformers at all

>being this geewun because they made a cartoon without rhino farts and loony toons jokes

>that same one retard who is the only one in the fandom who likes this awful show
>still obsessed with rhino farts

>likes beast machines
>doesn't like g1
>doesn't like beast wars
>doesn't like looney tunes

You're fucking Lee Goldson levels of autistic man, there is no fucking way you aren't.

I always felt the downfall of Canadian animation wasn't Johnny Test and TDI (though that did help), but this series. It really did feel like shows such as Beast Wars, Arthur and the Tintin cartoon were simply just flukes after this point.

BM was the fore-barer of what was to come, bad animation/designs, terrible writing, shitty characterizations for 90% of the cast... The show had everything going against it.

>they're fucking mutant animals, most of the Beast Machines would fit better in a fucking edgy version of TMNT than Transformers

>says this when over half the Beast Wars toyline have Ninja Turtle faces

Literally the only thing about that you could say is "TMNT" is the mouth, everything else is straight up Transformers aesthetic, from the angular bright colored eyes, the "helmet", the metal beard thing, the flat noses

And early one pretty much all Beast Wars figures had static G1 style slut mouths with only the bigger figures like Megatron or Polar Claw having expressions on their mouths

>slut mouths

Well, Cheetor DID suck a lot of dick...

Nothing.

...

>Beast Machines traded in a badass rock soundtrack for garbage goth club music

Lies, I did not hear VNV Nation playing.

Teenage Mutant Ninja Beasties, heroes in shell kibble, Double Turtle Face Power!

Facial expressions and facial construction are not the same thing.

I love G1, and I love Loony Toons.

But goofy Loony Toons jokes don't belong in Transformers. Nor do fart jokes. Keep that shit in Michael Bay movies. Beast Machines is better because it all but removes all the awful humor that plagued the earlier shows like Reboot and Beast Wars.

My point still stand, there are more figures with faces like Cheetor or Dinobot than like Armordillo, and even stil, once again, it's literally just a more detailed mouth than old TF headsculpts, the rest of it could easily pass for G1 head sculpt without a single issue
Beast Machines is shit because it removes all of the charm, and any likeness to Transformers at all that Beast Wars had

I'm not the biggest fan of (all) of the humor in BW either, I think the show in general had lots of great gags and the self awareness it had was clever for it's time and is something you only see in shows THESE days, but yes some of it was stupid

That being said, if you think an off or juvenile joke here and there ruins the series or makes it worse than the abomination of edgy late 90s garbage that is Beast Machines, you're fucking nuts.

Was it ever established why organic life *needed* to be restored to Cybertron?

and what exactly was Beast Machines retaliation for?

As a kid I was so confused, the location and character design.

It wasn't someghing I was use to.
I had no idea what was going on reasoning doing things besides surviving.

Fruit episode creeped me out.


It's something you can jump in to like beast wars.

The designs really were wretched, fucking Rattrap there literally has his ears "cleverly" designed to look like hip DJ headphones or some shit...and his head is a RAD sports helmet or some crap painted like a mouses face

And let's not forget there was literally a "Transformer" with an emo hairdo. Just looks like some edgy fursona to me.

This. It's hard to make a Beast Wars sequel anyway, I mean you can't really outdo it.

I hated how tonally divorced it was from its predecessor.

Beast Wars ends with the Maximals flying home and Megatron strapped to the outside of the shuttle for laughs.

In Beast Machines, that same joke is now the reason Megatron was able to escape into the past and take over Cybertron before they arrived.

Sounds like a potential Shattered Glass story.

Cheetor isn't so bad but Rattrap looks like that one boss from Wario World that would force himself down your throat if you looked into his eyes

I'm not sure any of us can pinpoint what went wrong, honestly it's a mystery....

Lots of things. Though this series isn't as bad as I once thought, as lately I've been doing rewatches of TF stuff and I purposefully rewatched BM before BW (as to not get a sour taste in my mouth for what happened to the characters). (I still love BW more than anything else though)

The designs in BM tho... Cheetor's beast mode was cute. Every other Maximal was either noodles or... it looked like they got inspiration from Tim Burton??? The Vehicons and Megatron looked good though.

tl;dr everyone's either posessed or insane in BM, and everybody's got these tiny limbs that bother me. The show itself isn't too bad ignoring that it's supposed to be immediately after BW.

>goofy Loony Toons jokes don't belong in Transformers
>Conveniently forgetting the time Starscream forced Rumble to clean bird shit
>Conveniently forgetting the time Astrotrain tried to command an army of trains while Blitzwing received strategic advice from a football coach
>Conveniently forgetting that G1 is what gave us Wreck-Gar, who is Loony Toons jokes in transformers form

You have no idea what you're talking about, do you?

I liked optimus and cheetor's designs and the theme song was good
other than that it was pretty forgettable

Actually, I think the one thing I remember the most was how much I hated rattrap and nightscream's designs

I feel like one of the ways they could solve the uncanny valley shit is by making the eyes solid glowing colors like in Beast Wars.
Pupils and irises on Transformers doesn't always work out, though there are exceptions, of course. In this case, it just made them look bug-eyed and weird.

>One odd brief was that both Mainframe boss Dan DiDio and Hasbro didn't want Skir and Isenberg to watch old episodes, as they wanted a fresh take and DiDio felt Beast Wars was too continuity heavy. (He'd even told Wolfman that Beast Wars had no ties to the original series and to do as he pleased with Generation 1 continuity when doing his outline!) Again: Beast Machines was a sequel to a sequel. As it turned out, Beast Machines ended up being more continuity heavy and one reason was because Hasbro told them about things like Vector Sigma and Hate Plague and encouraged them to be used!

Alright. Erase Beast Machines.
Keep Beast Wars, II and Neo and then make the 4th Beast War
With these animals. Have some of the older guys return.

That would help, but still wouldn't make them much more appealing to me personally.

Hell, even looking back at some of the Fuzors and TM2s I'm not a huge fan of some of the designs but BM took it to a whole new level of weird and just "changes from mutant animal to mutant animal standing upright "looking, I know it was a gradual progression and I GET that's what they were going for, I just don't like it

What the fuck was it suppossed to be?A bat? A sugar glider? A colugo?

A bat. Believe it or not, the image I posted is it's "robot mode"

I still remember that one Superdeformers strip about that
>I GAVE YOU STRENGTH! I GAVE YOU POWER! I GAVE YOU A KICKIN' JET MODE!

This show lacked any real sort of "Bad outcome". Since it was a kid show, good guys have to win, bad guys will lose in the end. Yes, that was true for Beast Wars too BUT, the suspense of the plot was always there. They were in the past, and once they found out the golden disks were tied to the Ark and Prime, at least there was some threat. Maybe DinoMegatron was never going to complete his plan of killing G1 Prime like he wanted, but he could have messed with some other stuff that would lead to something bad once G1 picks up, you know?

With BM, meh. Megatron turned into an IDW Shockwave, where he wanted to just take over everything, all or nothing. Which of course, was never going to happen. I liked that they had built up (a little bit) that Silverbolt and Rinox were stuck in Deception bodies, and Primal had to free them. But they didn't handle that too well either. Then they gave Rattrap the love story? HIM of all the people on the team, was a weird choice. The flower bot was uncanny. Blah blah. Don't make my transformers into organics.

I liked Nightscream's powers though

A vampire bat transformer with a sonic scream and energy draining abilities

>Goes from kick ass fuzor to shitty samurai bird
Still mad

Not only that buy his smoking hot bitch was now ugly.

Truly a fate worse than death.

Perhaps, but it's more like convenient circumstances in Megatron's favor is what I was going for.

He would still be the conniving manipulator he was in Beast Wars, and the Maximals will be well aware of that fact.

How does this sound as an ending (to mitigate how forgiving the story might start out):
When the Tripredacus Council and Vehicons are beaten, that's when Megatron makes his own grab for personal power and the series finale is one last showdown between Optimus and Megatron?

Because honestly, I just like the idea of the two being forced to work together in a show, but not necessarily do a redemption arc for Megatron

The early beast wars models certainly had aesthetics and design elements from the original transformers. Transmetal still had this as well. With someone of them really fitting in with other animal formers. Though the mutant parts did make them start to stray. By TM2 Beast Wars had becomes it own thing with very little resemblance to the original transformers.

The Challenge was In The Change

Transmetals will always be my favorite aesthetic even with all that chrome, too short lived imo