With the new mlp the movie trailer coming out...

With the new mlp the movie trailer coming out, it got me inspired to pop in my old VHS of this movie and that got me thinking

This movie is generally accepted by a good portion of the TF fanbase as being a crown jewel, but yet it was hated by critics and to this day is really only known by fans of the franchise and disregarded by everyone else cause "its toys!", but what are your thoughts? Do you think this is the ultimate representation of The Transformers to this day? If not, what Transformers do you prefer?

its cool robots fighting and rock music without all of the nonsense that bogs down most transformers fiction

> Do you think this is the ultimate representation of The Transformers to this day?

Yes.

It's dumb, and I think it knows it's dumb which makes it really fun. It's not a "good" movie at all but I still love it for what it is, pure dumb fun.

Maybe the best Transformers thing just isn't very good.

It had a really weak middle arc (looking at you squid robot trial), the unicron thrall characters had meh design, the movie had too much focus on killing old characters to make way for entirely new ones.

Other than that, I got the touch.

> hated by critics

everybody already knows mainstream film criticism doesn't care about animation, who cares what they think?

Or maybe it's the best ever

I brought up that point for a specific purpose, critics are fucking jackasses. This movie is loved by tons of people and yet if you read reviews about it from when it came out, they are not good

Same goes for the first TMNT movie, another film loved by many and considered a classic, but these days people seem to hold the opinions of critics higher than how they feel or how other people feel, as if critics possess some super power we, the regular people, lack

The only power critics have is the power of being bitter and pretentious and a high school need to create a hierarchy in which they can rule

Not mindblowing animation or deep storytelling or anything, but it's a kickass movie to just turn your brain off to and enjoy. It's just badass fun, and the movie itself knows it's just badass fun.

Wrath of Karza #3 Preview:

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II would say something about them sucking Disney's dick, but even they were on the critical chopping block a fair bit.

Then again, film critics are probably one of the worst things to happen to humanity.

I saw this in the theaters as a kid... I'm a grown man with kids of my own now, and I still fucking hate and blame Hotrod for the death of Optimus Prime. Fuck you Hotrod... fuck you forever and ever.

evil jeeg is bad-ass here.

> film critics are probably one of the worst things to ever happen to humanity

underage b& detected

In terms of "ultimate representation" I feel the current comics arc has been really good and if they gave it animation and stellar voice acting it could surpass it, but I'm more than happy to have the movie serve as "the face of"

>Do you think this is the ultimate representation of The Transformers to this day?

Yes. Whoever made a TF movie again in this style and with animation of at least that quality and detail again would get my wallet open.

Bay garbage fucking disgusts me, and has never gotten a cent from me.

>Do you think this is the ultimate representation of The Transformers to this day? If not, what Transformers do you prefer?
Beast Wars

>Bay garbage fucking disgusts me
Why?

Nope, not underage. But at the same time, it isn't entirely wrong. They praise movies that are shit and bash the ones that aren't.

Maybe I did jump the gun too soon in the "Film critics are the worst thing humanity's made" statement, but let's be honest here, they've made some pretty bad mistakes.

Horrible aesthetics that don't even resemble the characters they're portraying in the slightest. Ironhide was black? Optimus predominantly blue? Whatever the fuck "Que" was? The infantile humor (the black stereotype twins, hurr Devastator's balls), the terrible writing, the shit focus on humans that no one gives a shit about, Megatron continually being everyones bitch, etc.

Every film has been a gross waste of time, money, and potential. That China alone keeps ensuring it's a billion dollar success every fucking time because some shithead rice farmers will watch anything sickens me.

>Do you think this is the ultimate representation of The Transformers to this day? If not, what Transformers do you prefer?
The answer will always be Beast Wars. Prime is also good but a bit predictable.

>It had a really weak middle arc
This. First time I watched the movie, I was bored out of my mind at that part. Junkions too, sorry to say.

>"ultimate representatioN"
It's definitely not the "ultimate representation" of Transformers. The "ultimate representation" of Transformers is probably different for every person at this point. As a 90s kid, my expectation out of Transformers is a moving story, so my "ultimate representation" is Beast Wars, followed by G1 and Animated.

>crown jewel
Crown jewel my ass. It is, however, the origin for a lot of Transformers stuff you see today, like the matrix of leadership, comic relief Grimlock, and a bunch of lines. And do you know what? It does something that I prefer: give us new characters instead of rehashes of Optimus Prime, Bumblebee, etc.

Can you really not imagine why a person would hate the Bay movies?

>Prime is also good but a bit predictable
Predictable really doesn't mean anything. For example, if you predicted that Bulkhead was going to be just fine in a couple of episodes after his injury, it's not bad because you predicted it. It's bad, because it's bad, because they tried to make it seem like a big deal when it happened when we all knew it wasn't a big deal. They were being dishonest with us. They were insulting us.

Well, don't you think the success of the movies is good for the brand overall? I don't know about you but when the anime years were going on I felt like Transformers was going to end as a brand and go the way of G.I Joe

I bet like 70 percent of the people who hate the movies didn't care about Transformers before they came out, which isn't to say all fans like it, just that the movies massively expanded the number of people who even care about Transformers

Maybe if I were an investor in the brand I'd be happy. Like, say, if I were invested in McDonald's, I'd be happy as long as their stock went up. But that doesn't mean I'd like or ever want to eat their garbage food except in desperate circumstances.

Same thing here. I'm happy it brings in money, but I'd rather not have that shit be synonomous with the brand at all because it really holds very little in common with anything else in the TF world, in the same way McDonald's holds very little in common with actual, real food.

In terms of 2D art it is it's height. I enjoy it but the critics are right that the characters are flat and uninteresting which is why it feels like it's just toys fighting. HotRod, Prime, Megatron, and Starscream are the only ones with any real personalities I remember. And those guys personality are very simple, too simple for leading roles.

>but I'd rather not have that shit be synonomous with the brand at all because it really holds very little in common with anything else in the TF world, in the same way McDonald's holds very little in common with actual, real food.

Transformers has something for everybody, just like Beast Wars and TF Prime cater to a certain audience, and Rescue Bots caters to another audience, and the comics cater to another audience, and the anime cater to Jap 4 year olds

It's all part of the bigger picture, the movies are meant for the masses, for the people who would never otherwise pay to see a Transformers movie

You need a character like Sam Witwicky and you need him to have a coming of age story where he meets a girl and deals with his annoying parents, that's what the people will relate to

A Transformers movie that catered purely to Transformers fans would likely be a gigantic flop and then you'd have no toys to buy, no comics to read, and no cartoons to watch....because Hasbro would be like fuck this shit

>You need a character like Sam Witwicky and you need him to have a coming of age story where he meets a girl and deals with his annoying parents, that's what the people will relate to

Bullshit. He was a presence in the original cartoon that made the demand for the TF's so explosive in the first place, but he was never the focus. The actual robots where the focus. Sam was little more than a plot device. They could've easily done the same in the movies without turning it into Teenage Shitty Melodrama: Now Featuring Sort-Of Transformers.

>They could've easily done the same in the movies without turning it into Teenage Shitty Melodrama: Now Featuring Sort-Of Transformers.
They could have. Mothers, fathers, and girlfriends wouldn't like it though.

A TF movie made for TF nerds and only TF nerds would make a significantly smaller amount of money

>Mothers

Not the target audience for a boys toy line.

>fathers

Possibly a target for a boys toy line, especially when those fathers could be happy G1 loving folk bringing their kids to see the movie.

>girlfriends

Not the target for a boys toy line.

So yeah, I see no problems here by making adjustments so the movie is actually a fucking Transformers movie and not retarded jokes and explosions for 2 hours.

So, you're saying a Transformers movie would make more money if it pandered to one group of people rather than pandering to the masses?

Seems unrealistic to me.

>targeting a focus group rather than trying to detrimentally alter movies to fit all audiences
>unrealistic

Well, I mean, Hollywood is going bumfuck retarded lately, so it's not unrealistic anymore.

Not that user but he's saying that it would make more money if it pandered to the target markets, the people most likely to continue fuelling the franchise. Mums and girlfriends in no way are part of the target market, which was action loving American men & boys.

I had to watch the movie with my brothers because mum couldn't find a babysitter for me (and she was only going because kids not allowed in cinema without an adult) and she just fucking shut herself off for the whole thing idk how she managed to do it. Neither of us were part of the target market and we didn't go on to buying bumblebee lunchboxes or watching the cartoons. Hell I only got into transformers years later when I had a depressive episode, got roaring drunk binged the whole of G1 and related to Starscream on an emotional level.

I remember when the first movie came out, I saw a lot of what you might call "fake geeks" or "gamer girls" suddenly love Transformers, being a teenager at the time and someone who has been a fan my whole life, back then I found this offensive, but I now see the value in it

My mom also loves the movies, she thinks Shia is cute and they are as hardcore of an action film as she is willing to take, but I digress

>Not that user but he's saying that it would make more money if it pandered to the target markets, the people most likely to continue fuelling the franchise. Mums and girlfriends in no way are part of the target market, which was action loving American men & boys.

American men and boys are still seeing these movies, the only people who aren't are film snobs and art fags, the same people who were NEVER into Transformers to begin with so it really doesn't matter, 13 year old boys like these movies just fine

There's always outliers like those fake geek gamer grills I see them crop up every time a mahvel movie gomes out. but honestly how many of them have bought a toy, comic, or dvd set and supported the franchise beyond the first movie? Knowing those types I'd say the answer is very little. I should have said it in my first post but even though I'm into Transformers now and consider Starscream my spirit animal I'm most likely never going to buy a toy, and toy sales is the support beam to the Transformers franchise.

I guess though if the film wanted to raise awareness of the series it certainly achieved it, but the other guys point still stands. Focussing on a target market is in the end more profitable than trying to appease all audiences. The movie was an attempt to expand the target market beyond kids who stayed at home Saturday mornings to other types of people who bought toys (and i guess including parents who'd buy those toys for their kids, somewhere I bet some dad shed a tear in his eye as he bought a movie Optimus thinking little timmy was learning good american value idk what the movie meme is over there).

>Starscream my spirit animal I'm most likely never going to buy a toy
Okay you're fucking weird, and go buy toys, buy at least five Starscreams if you're gay for him.

>The movie was an attempt to expand the target market beyond kids who stayed at home Saturday mornings to other types of people who bought toys (and i guess including parents who'd buy those toys for their kids, somewhere I bet some dad shed a tear in his eye as he bought a movie Optimus thinking little timmy was learning good american value idk what the movie meme is over there).

Over where? And expanding the demo is what the movies exist for, yes, and they succeeded. Do you realize how much money these movies have made for Hasbro? Lots, more than toys have. Toys these days aren't the hot commodity they once were, every kid has a sony microboxcube 350 handheld version, toys don't aren't as important to them

And once again, these movies being successful is the reason other Transformers media (you know, like comics and cartoons) continue to be put out, the series was virtually dead before '07 (the year of the first movie and later TF Animated) because it was anime bullshit even anime nerds wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole, nobody cared about Transformers during that period at all aside from the hardcore fans, which back then was a much smaller and more niche group

>Okay you're fucking weird, and go buy toys, buy at least five Starscreams if you're gay for him.
Mate I just relate to him because I'm also a whiney, backstabbing, attention seeking cunt, who'd sell you to Satan for one corn chip. But I'm not loose in the head to obsess over him, write fanfiction or spend a tenner on some cheap plastic that's gonna smell weird after a year.

>Over where?
You've been using the US spelling of mum so... the US??

>And once again, these movies being successful is the reason other Transformers media (you know, like comics and cartoons) continue to be put out.
Ye I agree on that point. My argue point was its more profitable to focus on a target market than a general market. Target market =/= the fandom, though the fandom can be part of the market if that makes what I've been rambling on about clearer.

>My argue point was its more profitable to focus on a target market than a general market.
I really don't think that's true though. You're saying a TF movie targeted towards the fandom would make more money than one targeted towards the entire country?

Put it this way, Transformers The Movie was panned by critics and never got a sequel, Bayformers was initially liked by some critics and is still going to this day despite now being panned by critics

It comes down to money, I see no way a Transformers movie that only targets the core fanbase being any kind of monetary success

>It comes down to money, I see no way a Transformers movie that only targets the core fanbase being any kind of monetary success

Would you at least consider that over the course of five movies, they could have gradually moved the focus of the plots so they became increasingly focused on the robots, and the human cast faded into smaller roles, rather than continuing to be the focus?

>You're saying a TF movie targeted towards the fandom would make more money than one targeted towards the entire country?
Noooooo. I just said target market =/= fandom. A target market is basically, who you want to appease best? Who you want to buy the product again and again? It's about figuring out who's gonna watch this and how are you gonna milk them for all they're worth.

The reason why the new Mummy movie is so on the nose with everything is because the target market is the Chinese, so they made the plot and dialogue as easy for foreign people to understand. They think the Chinese are more likely to watch then Americans, so Chinese pandering. The G1 Transformers movie's target market was definitely the kids who were already invested, but those kids already had the toys, thus they introduced a whole load of new characters for those kids.

There's like a billion people in the US right? And its an immigrant country so you have tonnes of people from all different backgrounds with different tastes, different interests, different goals. For every person who wants to buy a robot car toy there could be 1 person who thinks toys are dumb, 1 person who prefers animal based toys, 1 person who can't afford toys, 1 person not allowed toys because his parents want him to be a doctor not a dinosaur. Why spend money filming intellectual scenes and marketing towards posh boy Alex when his parents would sooner be caught giving free money to the poor than buying him cheap plastic toys? Those same intellectual scenes could turn off middle class Joe, he wanted to see a movie about MAHRINES SHOOTIN ALIENS not watch people sit round a table deeply discussing the politics of having giant robots around. Even if the movie somehow has a bit of everything for every American there's preconceptions to consider.

I'm not saying we need more screentime for robots or G1movie is better than baymovie, I'm saying a jack of all trades is master of none. I'm going to bed.

>Would you at least consider that over the course of five movies, they could have gradually moved the focus of the plots so they became increasingly focused on the robots, and the human cast faded into smaller roles, rather than continuing to be the focus?
There is , apparently, a prequel movie in the works that will be all robots
Fair enough but Hasbro wants Transformers to be a household name, not a name only known by nerds like us talking on Sup Forums and people at fucking botcon

>botcon
What's a botcon?

It's the Transformers convention.

Sounds horrible.

...

Eh, smells worse than it sounds.

fpbp