Why is he the villain?

Why is he the villain?

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God forced him to be to stroke his own ego.

Cause the bible says so, duh. And you should always believe everything you read.
Incidentally, I'm a girl on the internet.

This. There where literally no reason for god to not just make him be okay with letting the Jews go. But instead he choose to draw it out to show his destructive powers to the Jews and Egyptians.

Oy vey, da jewish people were bein taken advantage of, goyim.0

God doesnt force you to commit sin. He gives you up when you choose the path of sin and its in your hands.
The early isrealis had a moment were the wrre degenerate as fuck and this was mentioned, i can probably find it but its not a Sup Forums related discussion to have.

Not in the Jewish version of the story. In the original, Yahweh and the Egyptian Gods were having a pissing contest and the Egyptian Gods hardened his heart after every plague so he wouldn't yield and they only backed off when they realized that Yahweh could literally kill every last Egyptian to get what he wanted.

It's only the modern Chaotic/Christian stories that don't want to imply that this story was a war between Gods so they just make him a dick

How shitty would it be to be an Egyptian God, and this newcomer Yahweh starts stealing your fame and glory?

God opressed him and shit, cause he and the jews were mad that the egyptians wuz kangs.

>power devided among a bunch of gods who may or may not like each other
Vs
>power into one superior being absolutely
It isnt hard to imagine why monotheism caught on

The whole point was that the Egyptian Gods didn't realize how out of their league they were. They'd always assumed they'd "beaten" Yahweh which is why the Jews were enslaved, so that's why they didn't take him seriously when he said "Alright, funs over furries let my people go"

This naturally miffed Yahweh, so the 12 Plagues were more to humiliate the powerlessness of the Egyptian gods in his way, since if you can't stop another God from preforming miracles, what good are you?

Old testament god was a fucking dick
New testament god is a cool dude

>early Israelis
You realize this is a myth, right? This didn't actually happen.

Because he's black and the other guy is jewish.
Think about it.

Because he was standing by the bad decisions of his father instead of confronting them and changing.

Moses learned about the murder of the hebrew babies and decided to distance himself from that. Ramses could've done the same. He could've been a better man than his father was, but chose not to be.

Pretty much this. Also, Jesus was the broest of bros.

>"Fuck the commandments, just treat others the way you want to be treated."

Ancient biblical history implies he's a fucking oppressor.

Ancient biblical history implies there exists a mountain on Earth from which you can see the entire surface of the Earth at once.

...No it doesn't.

I mean I get your general thrust, but I'm pretty sure there is no ultimate mountain in the Bible.

except for the part where it explicitly says that God "hardened the Pharaoh's heart"

What? The tribe of juda who went on to create isreal never existed? Is that what youre implying?

The EGYPTIAN GODS hardened his heart, not Yaweh.

He NEVER said to disregard the old word he CONSTANTLY belittled his opponents on how LITTLE they knew about their own fucking religion.

>>"Fuck the commandments
Jesus never said that, he never even implied it. He constantly said the old word was still the word of God and should be adhered to.

Slave owning dictator.

God doesn't fuck with people's free will.

Ra, Obelisk or Slifer?

I'm not sure if it mentions a specific one, go read the original story.

Bruh. God hardened his heart to prove his power to the captured Hebrews.

And then he wound up destroying the Hebrews anyway.

The whole point of Jesus is that he makes a new covenant with humanity (a 'testament', if you will) that supersedes the old one.

Depends which version you're citing. The oldest version its the egytian gods who do this.

But doesn't invalidate it.
Just means we no longer need to sacrifice blood of our livestock or of our own for him anymore.

Moses is torn up about what he's doing throughout the movie and even at the very end he still feels bad about what happened to Ramses. He just was full of himself at first because he was pharaoh, and was driven to madness and rage when his land was destroyed and his child died, which is understandable. In fact they play up the fact that his magicians were constantly stroking his ego in several scenes, they're arguably more villains than he is. Furthermore, he desperately wished to live up to his father's expectations, as was readily established at the beginning of the movie, and felt like letting Hebrews go would be an admission of failure, which his father was very hard on him about. He's a sympathetic villain throughout the movie, forced into the situation by outside influence, and is never portrayed as being outright evil. It's honestly one of my favorite things about Prince of Egypt.

So are there Egyptian Gods or not? Which version of the Bible is canon?

Go home yami

In the context of the movie, his ego and personal issues lead him to keep the Jews in bondage to the detriment of everyone.

Egyptian gods predate christian god. Humans went from poly to mono theis. Because its much easier to adhere to the ideal god then a set of gods and the god of gods.

Jesus never said that, but he was a fucking rebel vs the Jewish tradition of purity.

Most of his miracles where done on people outside of the community that was allowed in the temple.

Indeed, they put a lot of effort into making him an interesting figure which is why they don't kill him at the end (as happens in the Bible). Ralph Fiennes puts in a great performance.

Not even in the bible. Not exactly. God's hardening of you heart is a mercy. You are BORN sinned, remember.
Its not that God MADE the pharaohs heart harden, and more that he ALLOWED it to be harden on the pharaohs own will by tipping over the first domino by sending Moses to him with his message.

The passage people all get confused about, I will provide the hebrew for it as well.
ז:א וַיֹּ֤אמֶר יְ-הֹוָה֙ אֶל מֹשֶׁ֔ה רְאֵ֛ה נְתַתִּ֥יךָ אֱלֹהִ֖ים לְפַרְעֹ֑ה וְאַהֲרֹ֥ן אָחִ֖יךָ יִהְיֶ֥ה נְבִיאֶֽךָ: ז:ב אַתָּ֣ה תְדַבֵּ֔ר אֵ֖ת כָּל אֲשֶׁ֣ר אֲצַוֶּ֑ךָּ וְאַהֲרֹ֤ן אָחִ֙יךָ֙ יְדַבֵּ֣ר אֶל פַּרְעֹ֔ה וְשִׁלַּ֥ח אֶת בְּנֵֽי־ יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מֵאַרְצֽוֹ: ז:ג וַאֲנִ֥י אַקְשֶׁ֖ה אֶת לֵ֣ב פַּרְעֹ֑ה וְהִרְבֵּיתִ֧י אֶת אֹתֹתַ֛י וְאֶת מוֹפְתַ֖י בְּאֶ֥רֶץ מִצְרָֽיִם: ז:ד וְלֹֽא יִשְׁמַ֤ע אֲלֵכֶם֙ פַּרְעֹ֔ה וְנָתַתִּ֥י אֶת יָדִ֖י בְּמִצְרָ֑יִם וְהוֹצֵאתִ֨י אֶת צִבְאֹתַ֜י אֶת עַמִּ֤י בְנֵֽי יִשְׂרָאֵל֙ מֵאֶ֣רֶץ מִצְרַ֔יִם בִּשְׁפָטִ֖ים גְּדֹלִֽים: ז:ה וְיָדְע֤וּ מִצְרַ֙יִם֙ כִּֽי אֲנִ֣י יְ-הֹוָ֔ה בִּנְטֹתִ֥י אֶת יָדִ֖י עַל מִצְרָ֑יִם וְהוֹצֵאתִ֥י אֶת בְּנֵֽי יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מִתּוֹכָֽם
(cont)

7:1 Yhwh said to Moses, “See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron shall be your prophet. 7:2 You shall speak all that I command you, and your brother Aaron shall tell Pharaoh to let the Israelites go out of his land. 7:3 And I will stiffen Pharaoh’s heart,[5] and I will multiply my signs and wonders in the land of Egypt. 7:4 And Pharaoh will not listen to you, and I will lay my hand upon Egypt and bring my people the Israelites, company by company, out of the land of Egypt by great acts of judgment. 7:5 The Egyptians shall know that I am Yhwh, when I stretch out my hand against Egypt and bring the Israelites out from among them.”

He also said
3:19 Yet I know that the king of Egypt will not let you go except by a mighty hand. 3:20 So I will stretch out My hand and smite Egypt with various wonders which I will work upon them and after that he shall let you go.
>Yet I know that the king of Egypt will not let you go except by a mighty hand
There are many other indication he didn't harden his heart or strip away his free will completely, (Exod. 7:13, 22; 8:19 8:32)

Samuel 6:6, also proves otherwise that the pharaoh was under God's control, it was his own free will that lead him there.
God sent Moses to the pharaoh, so inevitably such an action meant the pharaoh would have to make a decision. And of course God knew what the pharaohs choices would be. God sets the stage, we are actors of free will within that stage. 10:5-11 state he will use the sinners for his causes.

God already KNOWS what the pharaohs decision is, he didn't harden his heart on his own he was stating his heart hardening was inevitable because this is necessary for his plan. The pharaoh was a sinner long before Moses arrived.

*wasn't under Gods control

Cause he's black. Black people are always the villain

> God doesn't fuck with people's free will.

Exodus 7:3
> But I will harden Pharaoh's heart

The pharaohs heart was already hardened, God was stating the obvious.
>Yet I know that the king of Egypt will not let you go except by a mighty hand
The original hebrew doesn't exactly translate as that anyways.

> The original hebrew doesn't exactly translate as that anyways.

oh shit we've got an Ancient Hebrew expert in this thread. Just pick any translation you like from the link provided. God literally made Pharaoh to refuse to let the Jews just so he could show off.

>The pharaohs heart was already hardened,

No, god hardened it as the text says. God cares not for freewill,

>Slave owning dictator.

Wait....the Jews had slaves. God never condemned slavery.

Exod. 7:13, 22; 8:19, 8:32, 3:19
Samuel 6:6
God may use you, but he doesn't force you to sin.
The hardening of the pharaoh was inevitable, God knew this. He was stating it. He used the pharaoh's ego to his advantage to make a display out of Egypt.

>It's ok when we're the ones doing it
t. everyone

Keeping jewish slaves was looked down upon, since jews always bought their citizen back. Jews believed to be chosen people and so keeping their image clean, freed jews that had been taken slave under non-jewish families. One would only keep jew as a slave to bargain them to Israel, or if the master was jew themself.

Well he's not wrong. It isn't an exact translation. Of the dozens of languages that have conventions that don't translate into english you're surprised Ancient Hebrew is one of them?

> God doesn't fuck with free will excepts when he does but it's okay because it's the same in the end

it's like saying murder isn't murder because the victim would've eventually died anyway

>> God doesn't fuck with free will excepts when he does but it's okay because it's the same in the end
I never stated the first half of that sentence, that is a misconception christians make all the time though.
God is ALL FUCKING powerful, of course he can strip away your free will. He tends not to fuck with it because he wants an organic experience of your character in order to judge it.
He will use a sinner to his advantage, this is clearly stated

He's not wrong. Hebrew is a sketchy language to translate into English.

of course it's not an exact translation, but that doesn't mean what he is saying is right. By that logic, you can just pick anything you don't like in the Bible and call it a bad translation. You'll just have to find a source you trust the most and use it. In this case, all the translations say the same, and just English ones, I also checked 2 others.

> and just English ones
*not

It means we don't know if that is what was really stated in the original text because Hebrew is hard to translate into English. All the example of translation you gave are English one.

The word hebrew word אַקְשֶׁ֖ה

to harden, to make difficult ; (scholarly) to question

So which is it?

I am going to trust people who spent their entire lives studying, and they seem to go with the first

Иcхoд 7:3
Ho Я oжecтoчy cepдцe фapaoнoвo, и явлю мнoжecтвo знaмeний Moих и чyдec Moих в зeмлe Eгипeтcкoй;

Ելք 7
3 Սակայն ես թույլ կտամ, որ փարավոնի սիրտը համառ դառնա, և կշատացնեմ իմ նշաններն ու հրաշքները Եգիպտոսում։

just post the songs.

cos' slaves

Great. It's this shit again. Fuck off to Sup Forums or /his/.

Again, you trust it but it doesn't even make sense because its contradicted. Its not like """Experts"" haven't been wrong before. See "Though shall not kill" shit fiasco

To question the pharaoh or the make it difficult on him is the more obvious use of the word here.

yes, every single translator we found made the same mistake just because you don't want to accept that by today's standards God is a douche.

Just like the second option is more obvious to you, a random shitposter or Sup Forums, the first one was obvious to the scholars of the past.

PROTIP: Nothing in the Bible happened, it was history's earliest school shooter notebook. Literally no historical record ever describes Egypt suffering the sort of losses the three plagues would have instilled but many do describe the Israelites being kicked out of Egypt for fucking with early currency systems.

Nice try reprobate. GO READ THE FUCKING BOOK

Dude, it pretty fucking blatant that the hebrew word אַקְשֶׁ֖ה has different meanings and its POSSIBLE people have been fucking it up because its an easy mistake to make. Again,. use your head, its a direct contradiction to other passages in the same fucking chapter, it isn't even used the same way in the other chapters.

Slavery was ok, considering the time period. Even more so during Christianity, as the church saw it's citizen slaves/servants of God. Holyfying matrimony meant you had to marry the slave you slept with. The murder of slave was no different from the murder of freeman. Slavery was mostly a punishment, which made it in the eyes of god ok. Better option to dungeon, mutilation, death or exile. And some free-spirits used it as adoption.

How could they manipulate currency if they were slaves?

youtu.be/-tVTEyuCKn4

Because they weren't exclusively slaves, savannah darkies were.

Religion is wack

Why do isrealis have ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics in their temples if they were never in Egypt? Why are there pharaohs chariots with dating that would be accurate to the time period in the story in the red sea? Come on man. At least learn a little bit about history before spouting nonsense.

You can say that the magical elements of it arent real, whatever, but these stories have a fucking origin man and they are true to historic findings.

>Everyone shits on the bible and christianity
>It's actually the most progressive religion and the only one that says to treat your enemies like your neighbors first before resorting to conflict.

forgot my pic
I realized you acknowledge the jews being in Egypt in your spoiler anyways so whatever.

>Why do isrealis have ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics in their temples if they were never in Egypt?

They were in Egypt, but they didn't convince a powerful sky wizard to destroy Egypt with his magic powers. Most Israelites weren't even slaves.

What? No.
There actually was a wave of natural disasters and subsequent refugee/pirate crisis that fucked pretty much every bronze age civilization around the Mediterranean to death that coincides with the probable time period of Exodus.

And the Hiboru/Heboru, who became the Israelites, had nothing to do with currency, they were a Canaanite caste or ethnic sub-group of mercenaries working in Egypt who fucked off and set up their own state north of the Sinai desert when civilization in general started falling apart, ~1200 BC give or take.

Read the story again. God literally makes him change his mind multiple times, as he would have otherwise let Moses & co. go.

God is the only villain in the story.

The flood stretches across more than iblical culture, Jesus stretches across cultures and even has documentation proving he was real. Again, i don't care if you believe in the magical side of it, but to say the bible never happened is objectively false.

of course it's possible but extremely unlikely that every single one made the same mistake independently over god knows how many centuries

Technically yes. Pretty much god is the only true lord and other gods are scam artists. He's not saying that other gods aren't real but that they are not as powerful, good or great as he is.

>The flood stretches across more than iblical culture, Jesus stretches across cultures and even has documentation proving he was real.

[citation really fucking needed]

He's Middle Eastern.

No he didn't, the pharaoh was acting on his free will the vast majority of time. After each plague HE hardened his heart more, not God.
The pharaoh was never CLOSE to letting the jews go before God wreaked havoc. Citation fucking needed on your quote here
> God literally makes him change his mind multiple times, as he would have otherwise let Moses & co. go.
>as he would have otherwise let Moses & co. go.

God used him, but the pharaoh was already a sinner and would have done this anyways, hence why he was used in the first place by God.

Yeah, Egyptian gods are just as real as YHWH. He just establishes that they're OTHER peoples gods, and the people of Israel are only allowed to worship Him.

really? the flood was mentioned in greek mythology

so you know how God thinks and acts?
look I understand having faith as an anchor or touchstone with what you consider truth and virtuos but I hate when religious people claim that their personal spiritual experience makes perfect rational sense for everyone.

Why is he the villain?

Actually you are wrong. A big problem with the language is that since it is always evolving and there are so many that even slight changes can complete change the meaning. This is why muslims only teach using Quarns that are in Arbic as to avoid confusing in translating.

Hewbrew's are sketchy in general! hey yoo!

Were south africans ever considered slaves, even to egyptians? The mediterranean slave market was mostly operated by ships, which south africans lacked.

Floods are mentioned in everything from Islander mythos to Chinese mythos to native American mythos because few things are scarier to an ancient human than a big ass amount of water being everywhere for no discernible reason. This is like saying because Thor used lightning and God used lightning, all lightning in every mythos everywhere is evidence of the Bible being real.

Most savannah people (who don't live in South Africa, they never have) were abducted because they resemble humans and work as hard as humans, or at least they do when frequently disciplined. Israelites started as a slave caste but quickly left it, and even among their own kind there were middle-class Israelites and slave Israelites.

>Biblical stories
>/his/
Know how I know you're American?

Because he though that because acting like a preteen girl and got angry when god told him to shut the fuck up and stop being such a brown noser.

> Actually you are wrong
Actually, I am not. Mistakes in translations will happen, but the same mistake but dozens of men won't independently make the same mistake over the centuries

Josephus (37-101AD)
Celsus (175AD)
Lucian of Samosata: (115-200 A.D.)
Suetonius (69-140AD)
Pliny the Younger (61-113AD)
Phlegon (80-140AD)
Mara Bar-Serapion (70AD)
Tacitus (56-120AD)
Thallus (52AD)
all mention Jesus and the chirstian, never referring to him as a fictional person.

You are. The same mistakes can be made numerous time. Though shall not kill was the known commandment forever even though it was murder not kill.

It wouldn't be the first time mistranslations have happened and haven't been fixed. The king James bible STILL states thought shall not kill today.

*thou

>gives me names but no actual citations

Yes, names of historians/people who have written a lot of shit. Why don't you go google for once instead of excepting us to spoonfeed you. I gave you a great start and several names to look into and research yourself.

I can't even understand this sentence. No surprise that a Christfag can't master his native tongue.