Has there ever been a worse editorial decision in comics?

Has there ever been a worse editorial decision in comics?

No More Jokes in Spider-Man/Deadpool

Let's scrap everything and start completely over.

Quesada's only mistake was that he didn't just kill her off.

I still do not understand why they had to use a covenant with the devil when Wanda rewrites reality regularly and she's a wild card, even now. I would have fired Joe Quesada immediately if he had brought me something like this

I think what's worse than the fact that they undid the marriage, worse than their excuse for undoing the marriage, and worse than the fact that Peter made a deal with the devil, was the fact that there were literally zero consequences for making the deal with the devil.

Like, literally everything is hunky dory. He makes the deal to save Aunt May's life, and she's fine. Quesada just brazenly ignores continuity and fucks up not just Spidey's character, but also Mephisto. Mephisto doesn't make deals that work out for the people he makes them with. Johnny Blaze made a deal with Mephisto to save his surrogate dad from Cancer? You know what happened? Mephisto removed the cancer and then caused him to die in a motorcycle accident. You know what happens to Aunt May after Mephisto makes the deal with Peter? Fucking. Nothing. She's fine.

No, OP, there has never been a worse editorial decision than the garbage that was One More Day. It destroyed Spider-Man as a character by undermining the core of his character. "With great power comes great responsibility? Better make a deal with the devil to save my aunt who literally told me she was ready to die and be with her dead husband by sacrificing the marriage to the woman of my dreams."

Have you read modern Marvel? They make One More Day look like War and Peace.

No more mutants.

This. Who the fuck thinks an actual deal with the devil will actually be in your damn favour? Honestly, I try not to think about it too much, because it just straight up infuriates me that some retard actually published it.

>OMD cuts sales drastically because it's shit
>sales manage to come back a bit
>then they decide to do OMIT
>sales plummet again

CEOs of normal companies resign or get fired by the board for fucking up that bad. Spider-man is their most popular character and he's stuck with one of the worst writers and all his spin off comics end up getting cancelled due to shit sales.

Meanwhile Batman prints money just for being associated with any comic.

The reason why Marvel abuses events and relaunches is because they can't promote their best characters properly and let them get ruined by shitty writers and sabotage by editorial mandates.

He lost the child he didn't know MJ was carrying

What about Sins Past?(

>He lost the chance to have children with the women he was sacrificing his relationship with
No shit

Sin's Past, as shitty as it was, could be disregarded as "Oh yeah, that happened." whilst OMD changed the status quo for Spidey big time.

I know you're not saying this, but a reboot isn't as bad as One More Day. A reboot wipes the slate clean. One More Day was like pouring poison into the watering hole. And from that poison the worst editorial decision arrived.

Hiring Dan Slott and putting him on Amazing Spider-Man;

I feel bad for JMS, his run is probably my favourite but it's soured by Sins Past and One More Day, which were both altered by editorial.

Pretty much this desu.

After Hickman, i would have liked a true reboot for the marvel universe.

Yes, you are right. JMS was pretty good with Spider-man, but Sin Past It's really , really bad.

The perfect change to.
But then a world built up by the current Marvel couldn't be anything more than shit in a dirt pit.

No, MJ was pregnant that's why she was puking.

The editorial decision would have been fine if the story wasn't so completely shit. Fuck that story. It was the worst thing. I've had cluster headaches that were less of pain in the ass then that book.

>Has there ever been a worse editorial decision in comics?

This was objectively worse. People still read Spidey after OMD (no idea why, but they did)

Spidey didn't make the deal with the devil

Marvel did

Having Bendis writing in the 616 universe?

/thread

No More Mutants was a huge step back for the X-Men that it's never really recovered from.

Seriously, they have to know how much NOBODY liked it, why didn't they just retcon it out as a fever dream?

Because no one's assassinated the quesadilla yet

Disney?

More than anything else, the whole group was totally self-destructive after that event, and yes, they never recover, It only gets worse.

I unironically think One More Day is the greatest comic book ever. Ask me anything

If I shoved my cock in your ass so hard it ruptures your organs, will you like it?

Marvel are more interested in what they want than what their fans want. As far as they're concerned, it's not a matter of people having a different opinion. To them, anyone who doesn't want Peter to go from one meaningless relationship to another is simply wrong.

killing MJ and making Peter a widow would made real progression for the character

Honestly? I'd say pushing the Inhumans over the X-Men by having a death cloud kill the mutants. I think that damaged two franchises at once. Spider-Man meanwhile still sells.

>Haha! Look how funny I am!! I make sex jhokes!!!!!!!
Kill yourself DNC supporter.

New 52

Again, how did he make a deal with the devil that was in his favor?

THIS

Someone's getting the tapeworm.

>>Spider-Man back in high school
>>Miles Morales is his classmate

Fuck off you fucking coalburner. Go back to tumblr and cry over Hillary's loss like you always do. Trump will be president for 8 more years and there's not a damn thing you can do about it. #MAGA

don't want none if you got bugs son

Yeah, I'm going to have to say this. Spider-Man, despite OMD, is still selling. Ultimatum was a sledge hammer to the Ultimate U's head that caused it to stumble around until it died. This was so bad, that nobody remembers the Ultimate Universe anymore. That is worst than OMD.

Marvel should have never let Spidey get married without a backup plan. They chased publicity and quick sales and it worked out too well that they had written themselves into a corner.

Having let it happen, they should have never retconned it once it became clear that their readers, at worst, didn't mind the marriage. It lasted, full strength, for 20 years and JMS was heralded for "fixing" it at the start of his run.

But they retconned it anyway because fuck the fans and have used the last 10 years of their preferred Spidey status quo to let Slott do absolutely jack shit. No story written in the last 10 years will be remembered in the character's run. THAT is why OMD is the worst editorial move. They got what they wanted despite severe negative backlash and then proceeded to do fuck all with it.

What got me so mad about M-Day was that it was just misery that got worst and worst, and then they just focus on other characters. None of the characters who were put through so much pain got good send offs. They just went "Hey look! Here's Quentin Quire! Your new favorite faggot"

any sjw decision that marvel and dc have made the last 4 years

Are the effects of OMD still around or has OMD been retconned?

The unmasking to begin with, getting rid of a lot of secret identities... a LOT of shitty decisions at least on par.

But worse? Identity Crisis.
>was a huge step back for the X-Men that it's never really recovered from
It got rid of a lot of morrison's shit, and prompted good stuff later on.

I haven't touched a single issue of Spide-Man since OMD. The butthurt is still real.

I considered it a few years back, but that was around the time of Peter being put in Doc Oc's body and I gave it a pass. Now he's nottonystark, which makes him even less interesting as a prospective reader.

I dont think its worse than OMD but New 52 was pretty fucking bad, it was a reboot that didnt want to be a reboot and in general editorial didnt know what the fuck to do, it was all over the place for the most part with no real goal or intent that ended up being canned completely. It was a publicity gimmick that was carried for too long and too seriously with nothing of substance to back it up.

There's some good stories in that time but those stories are not really depending on new 52, they could've happened in the 'old' continuity.

Maybe The New 52. Maybe.

Kicking PAD off Incredible Hulk and resetting about 140 issues of character development for no fucking reason was pretty bad. And IMO Hulk still hasn't recovered from that. And he probably never will.

People remember. Liking it is another matter entirely.

Don't forget that it moved a lot of characters and franchises off of the chess table for years in favor of pushing specific characters and stories like Justice League: Origin, or Harley Quinn and her Suicidal Friends. So long, Captain Marvel, Legion of Superheroes, and the Justice Society.

The New 52 was also a redesign of the universe to be much more "cinematic" and aesthetically appealing to movie-going audiences. It was driven by Warner Bros desiring a universe that would have more synergy with their films from an aesthetic standpoint in addition to a narrative one. This is why Superman, Flash, Batman, ect. all got unnecessary costume redesigns that did away with the spandex and went for armored paneling.

New 52 was pretty much Marvel's Nuhumans or Carol Danvers push but on a line-wide scale.

To be fair, it was also to capture modern youths that grew up with edgier, grounded and grittier aesthetiics to media in general, not guys in bright spandex. The N52 designs fit that idea, but were too much of a change from what was originally there.

I am personally enjoying Rebrth's blend of the two. Apart from Barry's design. It still looks shiit with those yellow lines.

They did that and it didn't work, they ended up having to bring her back pretty quick. Don't know why the outcry over that worked but 10 years later OMD is still upheld. And you're right, Peter was great as a widower.

Truth. At least you can largely ignore the fact that it happened.

Renew Your Vows, as good as it was, and Amazing is a CONSTANT reminder of what was lost.

Spider-Man is probably the most marketed fictional character in the world. Maybe Santa Claus has him beat. But he's up there. There are children in America right now that only know two words in the English language: Spider and Man. He is huge as a money maker. I work in a school, and let me tell you almost every classroom you'll go in has a half-dozen Spider-Man backpacks, lunchboxes, shirts, or shoes. It's even bigger when a new movie comes out.

Now, you'll notice that in virtually - if not every - other medium besides comics, Spider-Man is unmarried. This is because the character's 'default' is a student working for the Daily Bugle with all sorts of problems - the least of which usually isn't a string of problems tied to a female love interest.

Other characters deal with this too - for almost twenty years Adam West's portrayal of Batman was the default. It took a big-ass movie to change that into the dark, brooding hero we think of today.

Spider-Man being married fundamentally detracts from that marketable 'default' status. It ages him at least ten years, and it is not interesting to younger readers. A kid could go watch, say, the latest Spider-Man movie (TASM2) and read a comic where Spider-Man is married and there would be an element of confusion. Maybe it wouldn't last very long, maybe it would, but it would decrease the chances of that kid reading another Spider-Man comic.

Most superheroes aren't married for that very reason. It takes a certain aspect of their character and grinds it to a halt, along with all the other drawbacks I mentioned. Fuck, they gave Batman a kid and still didn't marry him. The only superhero who it seems to work for is Superman, and that's because Superman and Lois Lane has been a thing for almost eighty years.

And they STILL un-married him when New 52 came around.

The fact is, Spider-Man's marriage was a publicity stunt that, somehow, tied to the cartoon strip of the time. I guess it was popular back then, because that's the only reason why I'd see editorial thinking it would be okay - to match one up with the other. Who knows.

All I do know is that they have been trying to undo it ever since, and even if it took a mediocre ass story, I'm glad Joe Q had the balls to do it.

Nope, and Dan Slott said that Marvel is never ever times infinity ever undoing it, even if Bill Gates buys Marvel from Disney it's still not happening. Even if all 100 of the hottest women in the world lined up to fulfill all of the CEO of Disney's sexual fantasies in exchange for it being retconned it's still not happening.

Okay, who is this, Joe or Dan?

I remember this pasta

Try and refute it.

It's entirely predicated on the dual assumptions that a) a character being married makes him more unattractive to younger readers and b) people are noticeably put off by differences between movies and comics, neither of which I believe to be true.

>Nope, and Dan Slott said that Marvel is never ever times infinity ever undoing it,
Wait, didn't they say that they were never ever times infinity undoing Peter's unmasking in the first place?

I believe the exact words were something like "it won't be undone with a magic wish" which is essentially what happened.

>a character being married makes him more unattractive to younger readers
When the younger, unmarried version of the character is the one in all the cartoons, movies, video games, etc. that's a given.

>people are noticeably put off by differences between movies and comics
Maybe not 'put off', but they'll no doubt recognize the changes and, if they liked the movie/show/video game/tennis shoes or whatever the case may be better than the comic they're flipping through, they may put that comic back on the shelves.

We can't because it's textbook begging the question.

>Shit, he's got me...what was that one thing I learned in philosophy class before I dropped out of community college? Ah, begging the question. I'll accuse this faggot of doing that and then I'll look smart!

It's already been done. Just like in the last thread you eventually had no defense other than "no one refuted my argument".

Your entire argument is based on one point that is in dispute and you cannot prove.

It is literally the definition of begging the question.

No that would be America Chavez

The one character Bendis wrote halfway decent and he killed him off for Miles.

Yeah, an argument that no one can refute is a solid argument - it's almost like Marvel's reasoning behind the OMD retcon was sound!

>When I decide who wins, it's impossible for me to lose!

You are more than welcome to refute my post above. Or, you can stubbornly refuse and come across looking like a pathetic idiot. The choice is yours.

You're the only one looking like an idiot by refusing any and all arguments that refute your bullshit

Hal becoming evil and deciding to fuck the entire time continuum was pretty shitty, even if it's all been swept under the rug.

You're entire argument is based around sales and marketability, not the qualities of the actual story.

This is a given if there is a full reboot, unfortunately. They're even forcing him into the new game where Peter has only been Spider-Man for a few years and I believe he's going to be in the new animated series as well.

You argue in maybes, could haves, and it's possibles. There's no facts and you put the burden of proof on us.

I'm amazed you made it out of a Jr High English class.

I've already said the story itself is bad. Do you really think the suits at Marvel were thinking about that when they decided to do OMD?

The screwjob that was the Death and Return of Superman

I got my hopes up for nothing. Stupid fucking healing comas.

He said that so that people would leave him alone.

It didn't work but it was probably worth a try considering how many people hate OMD.

And the worst part? Due to synergy, we'll be seeing Miles stay around in the comics.

I'd much prefer to see Scarlet Spider, but I guess Marvel won't let up on this push for diversity.

The Death itself was stupid but World Without and The Return of Superman were great.

And picking up a comic to find Peter a rich buisnessman wouldn't be confusing?

That is too, no one's defending that decision, but it's more easy to reverse/retcon that Peter being married for 25 years.

Let's just, say, hypothetically you're correct from a marketing stabdpoint. Why do you personally like OMD? Do you think all capes should be bound to a status quo, never to evolve?

Marvel's problem was letting it last longer than 20 months, let alone 20 years. they should have never let it happen in the first place and then when they couldn't get the early retcons to stick because it was too popular, should have just gone in on an OMD then, in the early 90s.

The Spider marriage was mismanaged from the start. It should have never have happened and then once it did, it should have been eliminated much quicker, and when it wasn't, it should have been left to stand or end naturally.

>Other characters deal with this too - for almost twenty years Adam West's portrayal of Batman was the default. It took a big-ass movie to change that into the dark, brooding hero we think of today.

Then let's make a movie with adult Spidey with a wife instead of the nth shitty high school film/cartoon series
If it worked for Batman, why should it not work for Peter?

Frankly, I don't think it's the getting rid of Spidey's marriage that pisses people off. Retconning it so it never happened is the only way to not age the character up. It's the fact that he made a literal deal with the devil to do that's maddening.

Byrne retconning away Og Superboy was a giant clusterfuck that should never have happened.

There are few stories that are as badly written and no stories as widely hated in cape comics. The fact that Marvel likes to antagonize their fans by reminding everyone they published this toxic waste does not help.

Wasn't that something that editorial wanted? I think the robotic Krypton was worse than a lack of Superboy.

Doesn't Captain America has now sales in the same range Black Panther and Crew did when it got cancelled? It's in the 30s, you know it's only not getting cancelled as long as SE lasts.

>pym slap
>OG Secret Wars and the start if the event cylce
>OG Secret Wars 2- the suckage
> Parker gets Married
>drive away the top talent

It's just one of the many creative clusterfucks that have Jim Shooter at its core.

I think that's the core of it. The story itself is so anti Spider-Man and is one of the worst stories ever written in modern comics.

You can argue all day about the marriage being healthy for the long term future of the character. Seeing as it lasted 20 years (which is more than 1 generation of new readers) and was in a good place with fans just before OMD, and Spidey was still by far the most marketed cape in existence, I would say it had no negative impacts. But I don't have access to Marvel's bottom lines (and I don't the shill user here does either) so can't say for sure.

But the manner in which they were broken up is what still infuriates the fanbase a decade later. also given that they've done exactly nothing with their precious retcon in those 10 years does make the OMD decision one of the worst in hindsight.