This story will show you the evils of Communism

>This story will show you the evils of Communism
Alright, show me what happens
>The elite pigs who run everything live in pampered luxury and show favoritism towards their own kind, while the workers who support them live with much less
Wow that does sound pretty unfair. What happens under your Capitalist system?
>Umm

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Wait, Animal Farm was supposed to be about communism? I got from anti-capitalist messages from it because, well, the pigs were supposed to resemble the bourgeoisie.

Animal Farm is a criticism of Stalinism by a socialist.

Once again people misinterpret Orwell's work.

Is Stalinism just dictatorship/autocracy? Too lazy to look it up

Why do you think your last argument is relevant to the book at all? It never was pro-capitalist, either.

Animal Farm is an allegory for the Russian Revolution. As soon as the Tzar was deposed, the shitheads who replaced him started acting like total shitheads. Of course, such is the story of almost every revolution ever.

>What happens under your Capitalist system?
>Orwell
>Capitalist

I am going to guess that you have never read the book or know who Orwell is.

Police state trying to make a country industrialize in a very short amount of time.

actually, its about games journalism

I thought it was about animals

Under communism there is only slavery and poverty. You will have nothing and you won't ever be allowed to have anything no matter how hard you try. Furthermore you will be told what you can and cannot think and say. You will notice that liberalism operates under the same principle.

t. Slav

>2017
>gamergate boogeyman

>The elite pigs who run everything live in pampered luxury and show favoritism towards their own kind, while the workers who support them live with much less

So you'll smugly use that to criticize capitalism, but the instant someone points out the over-represented ethnicity in politics/media/academia is jewish you'll shut down and start repeating "anti-semetism." Careful, wouldn't want anyone to think you were anti-pig for pointing out the truth.

>t. classcuck

The USSR and its satellites were not communist, they were state capitalist. The unless the workers themselves own the means of production and have democratic control over their workplaces, it is not communism,

State Capitalism

it's about the evils of creating a totalitarian state in which there's a rigid bureaucratic/ruling class, which inevitably corrupts said class (assuming they had pure intentions to begin with). the class then proceeds to amass more wealth for itself, leading to massive gaps in income and opportunity equality, with the system eventually reverting to a capitalistic nightmare not unlike modern day america.

I see, thanks. I'm sure this would be clicking more for me if I'd read/seen Animal Farm.

>No true Scotsman example
>t. delusionalcuck

Communism is not achievable, since even by Marx's dialectic you have to pass through socialism first, and all attempts to date have gotten stuck there. The closest to true communism was Cambodia, with a death toll of nearly 1/3 of the population before neighboring Vietnam ended the madness.

>"No true Scotsman example" fallacy
>t. brainlet

shhh, let them frolic in their 'education' just a little longer

There's a webm for this meme.

webmshare.com/play/vg495

You got me. At least I don't use fallacies for my "arguments".

>t. true brainlet

Why do retarded communists keep spamming this thread? And why on Sup Forums?

The biggest problem with communism is it's more religion than government. It cannot fail but it can be failed by imperfect men. Which is a fine philosophy for a God but a horrible one for a government who's entire purpose is to account for the imperfections of men.

Someone post the gif

Yeah, basically happens all the time when it comes to Communism.

Under capitalism "poor people" have iPhones and rent 3 bedroom house. Yes I know it's brutal. They will never have equity, they will always be subject to a landlord. Alas they will survive.

...

ITT

samefag

>life is shit under the farmer
>life is even worse under the pigs
I don't believe you actually watched this cartoon or read the book OP

Yes and no. The actual characters and events are meant to reflect the Bolshevik Revolution but Orwell himself stated that this isn't something restricted to communism and any economic ideology can fall under totalitarianism. Orwell wasn't anti-communist he was anti-bureaucracy and believed that capitalism was also going down the shitter if people weren't paying attention.

If anything Orwell was more socialist then not, since in the very same book Orwell makes a point to show that Old Major is in the right and makes Snowball look sympathetic more then anything.

Good goys, the status quo is indeed the ideal system for your people that takes into account all their silly foibles. Trying to improve your lot would only be against your own nature ;^)

>anti-communist
Actually no, let me rephrase that because he did in fact hate communism and for good reason.

Orwell wasn't anti-socialist is what I meant.

No, it would be capitalist.

Yeah, the thing people forget is communism is socialism + revolution, you can be socialist and abhor commies.

i think the point there is an interesting one, under an unaware/incompetent monarchy, there will be pockets of freedom that the authority cannot or will not attempt to seize, it is these gaps that eventually fuels a revolution, but if the revolution falls into the bureaucratic, rigid-class structure that the previous authority had, it may end up worse as the new regime will also be aware of the pockets and their dangers as well as how a revolution can come to be, squeezing even tighter than the monarchy. what's even more sad to me is that the revolutionary authority may initially do this with good intentions to avoid a regressive counter-revolution from occurring.

"However, it has become clear in the last few years that "common ownership of the means of production" is not in itself a sufficient definition of Socialism. One must also add the following: approximate equality of incomes (it need be no more than approximate), political democracy, and abolition of all hereditary privilege, especially in education. These are simply the necessary safeguards against the reappearance of a class system. Centralised ownership has very little meaning unless the mass of the people are living roughly upon an equal level, and have some kind of control over the government. "The State" may come to mean no more than a self-elected political party, and oligarchy and privilege can return, based on power rather than on money.”
—George Orwell, THE LION AND THE UNICORN: SOCIALISM AND THE ENGLISH GENIUS (1941).

The devil you know is better than the devil you don't. My life isn't perfect but I have it better than any communist who's ever walked the earth.

wew I didn't know leftypol was lurking here. I guess they are butthurt because their precious CNN got doxxed by autistic LARPing Nazis on a Cambodian sweater-knitting chat.

>communism is socialism + revolution
More like socialism is about redistributing a part of wealth when communism is the end of private property and everything becoming public.

The 3 pigs are supposed to be Lenin, Stalin and Trotski. You even got one pig who got rejected by the 2 others to mimic Trotski's end.

Next you'll be telling me that Alien isn't an allegory for rape...

...

You're doing it wrong you faggot. When you're pointing out a fallacy, you have to explain why it's a fallacy and not an argument. Otherwise you're being fallacious yourself.

>"You're doing it wrong you faggot. When you're pointing out a fallacy, you have to explain why it's a fallacy and not an argument. Otherwise you're being fallacious yourself." fallacy
t. retardo

by naming it as a no true Scotsman hes explained it, assuming you know what a no true Scotsman is.

>Good goys
You do know that a shitload of Communist thinkers were Jews and that most of the Communist revolutions in Europe were either led by or explicitly started by Jews right? I mean it's one thing to meme, but at least meme consistently.

>redistributing a part of wealth
Call it what it is. Theft. It's not "redistributing wealth", it's taking somebody else's shit and giving it to someone who didn't do anything to earn it or, more likely, yourself.

i have rights of free speech to denounce the system, property that cant be taken from me, a fair trial so i cant get killed like the horse and vote to get them away from power

If someone else has more or better things than me, they only got it by cheating or exploiting others.

jews are disproportionately represented in almost all philosophies and often in positions of authority, as they are culturally leaning towards academia and creative production as well as business, at least partially due to their turbulent place in european society.

Communist revolutions, led by members of an underclass whose religion strongly encourages education? Egads!

>believing any of this
wew

>taking shit that someone didn't earn and giving it to the person who did

fixed

Most of a rich guy's money come from other people's labor, which he owns the rights to and gets the profits of, giving the laborers themselves only what he feels like.

Orwell was a socialist. But he hated totalitarianism, so mostly it's usual that both sides misinterpret him. His works are not' anti-communist, but they are not anti-capitalist either.

Wrong.
It was criticism of marxism by a trotskyist.

Hey, society's fault for only allowing Jewish people into very specific lines of work for years and years and years. They will of course wind up having dynasties inside of those industries and nepotistic networks to all hell.

im sure as hell not going to support the people who try to take it away even tho its all been compromised by now
rights are the other side of democracy, without them there is no democracy because they exist so the unrepresented minority isnt opressed
so excuse me if i laugh when you rail up stupid minorities under the goal of taking human rights away, those people will be the first to die when the communist utopia is acheved

t. niggers

Nobody owes you a fucking thing.

not a communist or a socialist, i'm just pointing out how wrong you are with your claims. the only one that works is your right the denounce the system, which is bound to be taken from you when you reach a large enough base, unless hollow out the message to make money, in which case you're actually working within and for the system.

I am sure you enjoy the crumbs that your boss makes you feel privilege to eat.

>giving the laborers only what they are worth.
FTFY

This.

Plus, their religion pushes education and study, as well as generally discouraging conversion or marrying outside of the unit. In Western society, this typically meant that they ended up in a lot of the "scribe" positions -- typically those saved for lower classes -- or were forced into merchant positions of one type or another. Combine that with the nepotism inherently encouraged by depending on good relations within your community in order to "marry well", and you end up with a group that tends to form "communities" within industries. Sort of like how a lot of people from India end up in Western tech positions.

And you don't owe your boss a fucking thing.

Well, Huxley's vision was the one that ended up becoming true.

Except the labor that you agreed to when you agreed to work the job, for whatever compensation was part of said agreement.

If you don't like it, renegotiate or get better and more marketable skills.

It's just a cautionary tale against revolutionary politics in general. It's almost an argument for the status quo

>you don't owe your boss a fucking thing.
You're being paid to work, so yes, you do owe your boss the labor you were paid to do. If you don't like how much you're paid, work somewhere else or gain skills that make you worth more.

Oh I know, it's just that the user going "good goys" should have fucking known at least that much.

Obviously you can't show graphic cannibalism in your children's movie.

Which would be fine if negotiation was an effective tactic in modern society, or marketable skills weren't gated by requiring large amounts of capital.

We've set up a system where the rich hold all the cards, and now we're reaping the result. Depending on the kindness of strangers is no way to live, but that is exactly what most salaried earners are doing -- depending on the magnanimous nature of business owners to result in a fair return on the amount of work they're putting in.

Oh, yeah, gotta agree.

If a skill costs more to learn than you would be able to pay back, you are picking the wrong skill, or an overpriced school.

Bluebell starts up her own farm with better prospects for workers, so eventually Napoleon loses a bulk of his following & production decreases. Napoleon better get wise & spice up the deal for his workers if he wants them to stay.

comics and fucking cartoons

>if negotiation was an effective tactic in modern society
It is. That's why every self-help success book notes it, and also why they are all regarded as bullshit because the people who buy and read them are too lazy to actually fucking do it, which is also why they're stupid enough to buy self-help books.

>marketable skills weren't gated by requiring large amounts of capital
Go to a fucking library and learn how to fix a car or a toilet, then take a goddamn class and get a certification.

Marketable skills aren't gated for shit. You just think you're too good to be a plumber.

The argument for communism during the time was, "Corruption is impossible!" The point of the story is that communism isn't infallible, leaders are. And since under communism everything is in the hands of the leaders...

Leave it to a liberal to get wrapped up in a tu quoque.

and thats not a problem to you?

sure which is why if anything i'm anti-american.

>rent 3 bedroom house
>poor

I'd fucking kill to have a 3 bedroom apartment, let alone a house and I am by no means poor. Is this 3 bedroom house you're citing in downtown LA or something?

Saved.

>What happens under your Capitalist system
The same thing except I'm not starving to death and have never had to eat my dog to survive.

you say rent like its a good thing or that having an iphone equates wealth when literally everyone can get a smart phone on essentially a financing scam cell plan as long as its an old model, hell some people these days gave up on desktops and laptops since paying in installments for a phone make more sense.

>Muh perfect communism has never been tried!
>Sure every other attempt ended horribly but it will work for real this time!

You don't eat your dog to survive. That's way above your pay grade. You get to eat your pet cockroach.

>Which would be fine if negotiation was an effective tactic in modern society

Sounds like you're just bad at negotiating, honestly. Are you a woman, perhaps?

>you say rent like its a good thing
It is a good thing in an unstable housing market, since you can just pick up and leave whenever as opposed to investing a shitload of money into something that won't hold its value.

>or that having an iphone equates wealth when literally everyone can get a smart phone on blah blah blah
On this, I halfway agree with you. They're highly-subsidized because they allow easy access to the personal data of every single person who owns and uses one. It's a good investment, governmentally-speaking.

>The USSR and its satellites were not communist, they were state capitalist
Only on Sup Forums

Capitalism, also known as private ownership of the means of production, is a system of "the rich get richer" and "the poor stay poor"

If you start with money, you can buy and own land, stocks, businesses, and the rights to people's labor, and while the working class works harder and harder, you get richer and richer off of them, because you own what they worked to create.

It's a pretty crap system. The USA is only (barely) making it work because it has liberal amounts of socialism injected into the works. A true capitalism has no minimum wage, monopolies that stamp out any emerging competition, and no regulations on the safety or quality of products those monopolies put out.

also because it's in a perpetual state of war, has many client states overseas and forced it's own people into submission through non-secular education.

Wasn't Communism supposed to solve the problems of Capitalism?

To nobody's surprise, central planning doesn't work.

Seems right.
Even with the Marxist rhetoric, there was the ruling elite who were above the rules and made damn well sure that they lived better lives than anyone else.

I mean, the ideals of a communal society completely fall apart when you force it to a national level and let Stalin mix some authoritarianism in there.

I guess nobody has ever come up from nothing via innovation, then, if "the poor stay poor".

You're so full of shit I'm surprised it isn't coming out of your ears.

The point is that communism is impractical and leads straight to totalitarianism mixed with elitism. Modern Russia, for instance, is pretty much exactly that with an additional oligarchy.

Eh I dunno bro.
I am a third worlder who lives in a country who has way more liberal amounts of socialism injected than USA.
Yet due to the power of the governement, everyone is corrupt as shit.
Protectionism in the end only made the most incompetent pet projects from politicians (who were, for the most part, Socialists in different spectrums) succeed while stamping out any real competition.
Over-regulation in the wage and syndicate system made hiring a worker very costly, so only outsider, foreign companies who are in the bed with the corrupt "regulators" (who are also corrupt as shit in America, FYI) or said pet projects get to thrive.

I literally work outside my country by the freedoms provided by technicalities of the USA system that deals with the third party employers as well unregulated websites who are in practice, a type of monopoly where content creators get paid decent enough anyway.

Literally the Capitalism side of America is what pays the bills of this third worlder knee deep into shit like "free healthcare" and "minimum wage laws".

So I'd argue that no, capitalism isn't a shit system at all. It's what is keeping me alive.

100 Million dead. We did it.