>Editorial is miserable. Understaffed, under experienced and overworked. The direction at the top corporate level is a mess of politics and in-fighting. They all look the fool to Disney because of Feige’s split and the bad PR & constant gaming of their declining sales is wearing on them. Top brass want to make a hard left back to what worked with Steve, Thor, Tony, Banner and other recognizable faces. Editorial knows how bad it’s going to look to push all their diversity celebrations to the side. Reality is those books didn’t sell. A lot of it had to do with Marvel’s chincy practices finally reaching a breaking point with fans but the internal editorial spin is that comic shop fans aren’t ready to embrace change.
>The terrible reaction to Hydra Cap/Secret Empire forced a change in plans. Originally it was going to end with a quasi-Dark Reign scenario where Hydra is vanquished thanks to Kubik shenanigans and the World Security Council from the movies steps in to assume power over super heroes and everything has Civil War-era overtones with registrations, boot camps, the idea of an Inhuman ban. The Vanishing Point would be a way to bring back Steve, Tony, Thor, Banner; sort of like Hickman’s “Time Runs Out” jump-skip but in reverse, it would rewind the characters to before the Hydra subversion stars. The classic heroes realize that they have lost touch with the people and need to learn how to fight for them again. In the meantime, the new generation of Miles, Kamala, Riri and other Champions would form “the resistance” against the WSC state. (“Generation” was also planned to be the transition from the classic guys taking a step back and letting the new generation lead the charge).
Ryan Fisher
>Legacy is a rush-job. They can’t afford to take the classic characters off the table like that for so long but they also don’t want to piss off the new diverse audience they’ve been trying to court. They’re trying to have their cake and eat it too, and please all masters. It’s a scattershot way to buy time while they right the course on several books. It’s not going to be about “new number 1s” but milestone 500, 600, 800 issues. A lot of these big volume numbers are really stretching the definition but the constant relaunches have started to seriously damage the trade department’s ability to plan out long-term marketing.
>They’re bringing back the Ultimate line for the teen heroes. Miles will become Ultimate Spider-Man again. Siri becomes Ultimate Iron Man. X-Men Blue becomes Ultimate X-Men. Champions becomes the Ultimates. The only “adult” character that will be a regular presence is Captain Marvel because they want her to be seen a prominent character to the overarching power structure of the WSC/SHIELD and other elements that will factor into her movie heavily. They’ll still make guest appearances in the “main” books but don’t expect them to anchor anymore franchises. Bendis staying on Miles and Riri. Hopeless is still on Ult X. New Ultimates writer is Amy Reeder
Hi Rich!
David Bailey
>Waid is a stop-gap on Cap to bridge the Legacy launch, then takes over Iron Man with 600 (Doom will be the main villain). Coates is taking over Cap with 700. They want him on the book to endorse the image rehabilitation. There’s a lot of face-palming internally about the “cap is a nazi” talk. He’s on both that and Black Panther as long as his schedule allows.
>They got lucky with Greg Pak and Hulk. It leads into a Planet Hulk revival pretty seamlessly.
>Jane Foster dying was always the end-game with the storyline, but the positive response with female fans means they’re trying to find a way to make her stick around. Tentatively planning to make her the new Valkyrie as the movie version is a blank slate and no one cares about the 70s Defenders character. >Classic Thor will be space-bound for awhile. Definitely through “Ragnarok.”
Alexander James
>Slott is off Amazing Spider-Man. They’re going to move him over to Friendly Neighborhood; the fear is he would sign exclusive with DC if they took it away from him completely. Plus he struggles with deadlines and there’s less risk with him off to the side. They can’t ignore declining sales anymore and it’s time for a refresh. >Spencer was earmarked for ‘Amazing Spider-Man” for awhile but he’s “earned it” after taking the heat for Secret Empire. Plus there are fans of his “Superior Foes” book in editorial and the plan is to emphasize tech-based criminals, go smaller scale, focus on NYC. Yes, like the movie. No, they’re not going to de-age him to a teenager. (Although it is a corporate synergy idea that has been floated; editorial has been able to argue that there’s no great way to do it … yet. They’re hoping Tom Holland ages up and they give up on that idea. The time-displaced X-Men are an albatross brought on by First Class synergy). >No major plans for MJ beyond guest spots here and there. The marriage isn’t coming back ever. Renew Your Vows will stick around until its a money-loss. It’s just a spin-off that had some legs, like Spider-Gwen. Silver Sable/Black Cat plans are being developed. Big plans for the Venom series to have a central role in Marvel events.
Henry Smith
>The X-Men are still in a tight spot. ResurrXion was itself a rush job after the Inhumans movie push was officially kaput and there was no future for family of books. Because of the Fox issue, they still can’t create new ideas that could go toward the movies so its literally just nostalgia retreads. Uncanny will be back next year with Xavier. Old Man Logan is sticking around for the foreseeable future with X-23 becoming his sidekick, the book will be called “Wolverine.” They burned out Deadpool fans with the price gouging, so no plans for spin-off series, but there will always be mini-series on the side to line out trades.
>Seriously, don’t expect the classic Fantastic Four anytime soon. Ike has seemingly dug his heels in; even though Fox will probably never figure out what to do with them, he’s spiting the brand because of how bad the negotiations went. Sue & Reed and the kids are seen as “boring” enough to sacrifice. Two-In-One is basically a containment book for people to get their F4 fix. It’s an inventory book, no set writer, it’s like “Avenging Spider-Man” or “A+X.” Different writers will get to use different pet characters.
Lincoln Perez
>Ms. Marvel is in a funky spot because most at Marvel are aware that something organically special happened with her book. She’s basically the new “Runaways,” a special project with a special writer’s connection. It will last as long as Wilson wants to writer her, with a focus on the bookstore market while she pops in and out of other books when relevant. They want the audience to have enough familiarity with her because it’s inevitable she’ll be adapted sooner than later; it’s way too soon for her to be introduced into any Carol Danvers sequels so the TV division might snag her for their Hulu/Freeform teen show pitches. (Moon Girl is saved by her trade sales but the threshold is much lower for if sales drop any lower.)
>Wilson is also taking over Captain Marvel. They need to make it work and she’ll do the best job tying the legacy together. Kamala, Monica Rambeau, SWORD — its all part of it.
>Runaways is just a mini-series. They just want the trade out in time for the Hulu show. They can’t seem to get readers to care if it’s not BKV but they know people still love the franchise. >Cloak & Dagger and New Warriors series are coming. Squirrel Girl is wrapping up and North is moving her storylines over to NW where she’ll be the main character.
Joshua Fisher
>Elektra, Bullseye, Kingpin tanking so hard shook them. They need the “Marvel Knights Netflix” corner to be sustainable, so they’re relying on Bendis on Defenders & Jessica Jones for awhile. Say what you want about his other stuff, everyone here thinks its still his sweet spot. >Brian Buccellato is on Daredevil with issue 600. >Justin Jordan is on Moon Knight; big hope that he can give Marvel their “mature” critically acclaimed book that juices up that corner of Marvel.
>Secret Warriors and Royals are already wrapping up. Rosenberg is moving over to one main Inhumans book. Quake/SHIELD will be background characters until “Agents” wraps up (everyone knows this is the last season). >They’re going to give Ahmed a shot with Black Bolt until sales drop.
>No plans to take Duggan off Guardians. Gunn is moving full steam ahead with Adam Warlock weirdness and they want to make sure those characters/ideas are “accessible” but still fun.
>Punisher War Machine is just one storyline involving Stark tech. They want to pull the character back from some of the real-life darkness and imagery; Nate Edmondson’s rep + Secret Empire has made him “ugly” (plus no one cares about Cloonan’s run). They want to scale him back to the Spider-Man/Defenders side of street-level, with less focus on real guns and more emphasis on comic book-y tech.
>Al Ewing is on Spirits of Vengeance. Editorial likes him, but he can’t sell a book to save his life. They just want someone with a love of Marvel lore to write the magic/horror characters to have them prepped for future Movie Phase exploration with a Blade reboot. They know that corner of Marvel horror needs its own “Annihilation.”
Elijah Perry
>chincy
Its chintzy.
Asher Hernandez
I thought it was chinsie.
Lucas Price
lol
Jose Green
>No major plans for MJ beyond guest spots here and there. The marriage isn’t coming back ever. How long til Mary Jane Watson is killed off and replaced with Black MJ?
Gavin Price
this is much more believable than this shit here what the fuck is the Vanishing Point exactly, user? >Brian Buccellato is on Daredevil with issue 600. >Justin Jordan is on Moon Knight LMAO at these, both guys are hacks
Zachary Myers
Coates on Cap was not a very well kept secret
Leo Nguyen
Two in one could really be fun. Let the writers enjoy themselves.
Christian Carter
Link?
Noah Gutierrez
>a hero vs hero fight over politics followed by a betrayal and conquest that was secretly planned decades ago leads into an oppressive status quo
I know Marvel has become the House of Recycled Ideas and OP might be making fanfics but I honestly would not be surprised if Marvel was copypasting almost a decade's worth of event storylines.
Justin Nguyen
A lot of it had to do with Marvel’s chincy practices finally reaching a breaking point with fans but the internal editorial spin is that comic shop fans aren’t ready to embrace change. >It's not our fault our shitty books and practices failed, the comic shops are just racist and totes made the book purposely bomb!!!!
Stay classy, Marvel.
Camden Bennett
>FOX: "Here's Daredevil and Ghost Rider, you guys want Fantastic Four?" >Ike: "HAHA FANTASTIC FOUR IS SHIT!"
Later >Ike: "Alright, give me Fantastic Four." >FOX: "Sorry, we're not selling." >Ike: [screams eternally]
Jeremiah Morales
>Siri becomes Ultimate Iron Man They're doing a crossover with Apple?
Nolan White
Ike is the biggest dumbass and I'm surprised Disney hasn't hired a hitman to kill him
Jason Perry
Hitman is DC.
William Smith
>and no one cares about the 70s Defenders character. Tell that to those who loved her on Secret Avengers. (& fearless defenders to a extent) Tell that to the Valkyrie focused series The Fearless which is universally agreed to be vastly better then Fear Itself which it followed.
>They want to pull the character back from some of the real-life darkness and imagery. >with less focus on real guns and more emphasis on comic book-y tech. You stupid fucking liberal bastards.
Lucas Parker
>They’re bringing back the Ultimate line for the teen heroes.
I guess they are planning to kill off the shitty legacies after all.
Julian Evans
Relegating the ethnic placebo to a side line is absolutely a great idea but I wish it wasn't Ultimate. I'd take Ultimatum & Ultimates 3 many times over before I would accept Riri.
Adrian Thomas
Are you guys OP or are you easily this fooled
Owen Jackson
Ovens, cameras, bullets...Ike dodges em all.
Joshua Sanchez
>hey, people think captain america is a nazi now, what should we do? >let's give the title to an ultra-liberal WE WUZ KANGZ! >brilliant!
Kayden Perez
>what the fuck is the Vanishing Point exactly, user? Its just like ... a Spencer plot device. It could have been WeirdWorld (oh boy that was a failed plan). It's just Spencer's take on a "place out of time" a la Morrison.
There are no plans for a Spidey reboot like that. They can't get readers to pick up a teen Peter Parker since Bendis killed off Ultimate.
They wrote themselves into a corner because no one cares about kids books like Marvel Adventures or that "Spidey" book from last year.
There has been some discussion about an "Untold Tales of Spider-Man" relaunch with teen Peter and the high school cast but they don't want Busiek and there's no market for "prequel" books.
There's a thought (and I agree) that once the animated Miles movie comes out, they'll have their "Spider-Man for kids" so we want to keep him strong in the comics and cartoon merch. The Sony deal is kind of closed off but in terms of brand direction, we're all about synergy. The Gwen revival talk is dead now that the Emma Stone movies are done.
We're just kind of waiting to see Sony's next steps but there's kind of like a prep for nostalgia for the Raimi trajection in terms of MJ & college.
We're in the dark about a lot of the post Infinity War plans now but the overarching brand direction we were looking at was scaling it to revolve around Spider-Man even though Marvel can't make a solo Spidey film.
I think Tom Holland is going to be the new lynchpin for the MCU. They're not going to have a new "Iron Man" franchise but they've got Holland locked into a deal where he'll teaming up with characters in their own stuff.
Jacob Campbell
It amazes me how fast Marvel was able to go downhill when it comes to Comics and Animated Movies.
They really did put all their eggs in the Live-Action Movie basket.
Reap what you sow, Marvel.
Lucas Gonzalez
>Tell that to those who loved her on Secret Avengers. (& fearless defenders to a extent) >Tell that to the Valkyrie focused series The Fearless which is universally agreed to be vastly better then Fear Itself which it followed.
lol who bought those?
Chase Evans
What's going on with Kang anyway?
Benjamin Hernandez
>Originally it was going to end with a quasi-Dark Reign scenario where Hydra is vanquished thanks to Kubik shenanigans and the World Security Council from the movies steps in to assume power over super heroes and everything has Civil War-era overtones with registrations, boot camps, the idea of an Inhuman ban.
And this would've been different from what's going on within Secret Empire HOW?!?
Jace Edwards
>Miles will become Ultimate Spider-Man again. Siri becomes Ultimate Iron Man. X-Men Blue becomes Ultimate X-Men. Champions becomes the Ultimates. Is Ultimate just the code name or is the Ultimate universe coming back?
Ryan Lewis
I'm just waiting until the comic book movie bubble bursts, so we can get over this fucking synergy, 'writing for the screenplay' or IP farm phase Unfortunately, I don't see it happening for a while
Tyler Lopez
Slott getting kicked off ASM is a surprise. Didn't think he would settle for a spin-off book.
Brandon Smith
Civil War = Civil War 2 Secret Invasion = Secret Empire Dark Reign = WSC status quo
It's like pottery.
Isaac Carter
Superior Spider-Man = AXIS/Superior Iron Man = HydraCap = Infamous Iron Man
Bentley Sanders
The original plan was to mirror the Civil War to secret Invasion to Dark Reign arc.
There's a reason this is called Secret Empire. The next step was "Nomad"'ing the entire Marvel lineup. There was a lot of editorial excitement about saying something about Trump's win and the baby boomer backlash.
No one was expecting the backlash to cap hydra and they probably could have kept the original plans intact but I think it was the sales/marketing push that buried it.
Not everyone is an idiot here; we are aware of how we price gouge comic shops. I think that was more the issue and once all the online fan political arguing started happening around the book, retailers just finally threw their hands cause it wasn't worth the outrage.
Julian Clark
Why is AnnieMay being aged up so quickly?
Robert Barnes
What were the offices like when the "Break the Internet" variant covers were announced?
Grayson Rogers
what are the chances of Slott jumping ship to DC? or actually, are there any writers/artists who might do that?
Nathaniel Lopez
>Slott is off Amazing Spider-Man. HA! In my dreams.
Anthony Clark
>Al Ewing is on Spirits of Vengeance. Editorial likes him, but he can’t sell a book to save his life. They just want someone with a love of Marvel lore to write the magic/horror characters to have them prepped for future Movie Phase exploration with a Blade reboot. They know that corner of Marvel horror needs its own “Annihilation.”
I might actually pick up a Marvel book.
Brayden Hughes
What's the status on Carnage? Power Pack? Rightclops?
Carson Sanchez
>wanting more fanfic
Kevin Lopez
just an imprint line. not a separate universe.
Jason Aaron is off doing his own thing. His Avengers BC thing is just a Morrison mini series idea he has. Spencer "made his statement" now that Captain Sam won't be the status quo (that was the original plan while Steve goes back to the maskless "Super Soldier" identity). I think everyone agrees its time to take teens away from Waid.
But the senior editors had big plans for that push and now there's nowhere else to put it. But we can't just get rid of it forever.
There was no plan to replace all the "white men" its just how the pieces fell into the place. Honestly, the Riri thing was the tipping point. It was Bendis' idea, no one in editorial had a big plan for it and it hurt the big post-Secret Wars push to make Tony Stark the franchise of the MU.
Since it's basically a book for his daughter, we're kind of stuck keeping her in print.
Edit wants to have a fresh voice on a Miles book in time for the Sony cartoon. David Walker apparently had a pitch that got people excited.
But there's just no way to take Miles AND Riri away from Bendis without burning a bridge with him forever.
Matthew Cooper
>Spencer was earmarked for ‘Amazing Spider-Man” for awhile but he’s “earned it” after taking the heat for Secret Empire
That's a funny way of saying "failing upwards"
Dominic Wood
>The time-displaced X-Men are an albatross brought on by First Class synergy
JESUS FUCKING CHRIST THE O5 WEREN'T EVEN THE FOCUS OF FIRST CLASS
Seriously, how many of Bendis' runs as of late can be traced back to hamfisted movie synergy?
Jeremiah Nelson
OP is lying, dude.
Henry Garcia
I'm not kidding: the Slott FNSM run is going to marketed like Joss Whedon on Astonishing. It's its "own thing" "unrestricted by the monthly continuity but still taking place in the MU" which is code for "if its late, its late."
It's going to be sold as "separate but equal" to Amazing. I have no idea how long it will last, but it's to assuage his ego apparently as he was interested in other books.
I don't think anybody wants anyone else to jump to DC. The real fear is Disney seeing that Warner had success moving the comics office to Burbank and lining everything up under one roof.
Moving Marvel Comics out of NYC and onto the Disney lots is a real possibility. A lot of us will get downsized or just not relocate if that happens.
Asher Gray
>it's another Sup Forums industry fan fiction thread
Jacob Diaz
...
Jayden Lopez
>assuage his ego apparently as he was interested in other books. meant to say NOT interested
Jeremiah Perez
What's the news on well known writers returning for Legacy? Will it be the Image guys? Old man Claremont?
Connor Butler
As nice as a Marvel horror Annihilation would be, I also don't trust modern Marvel to ever be able to replicate Annihilation. They couldn't even do that when they weren't sucking this badly.
Gavin Williams
>Tentatively planning to make her the new Valkyrie as the movie version is a blank slate and no one cares about the 70s Defenders character. Fuck you if this ends up happening.
Nolan Lee
War Machine dying because the Civil War trailer made it look like he'd die.
Watch and wait for them to kill Vision next year, just because everyone expects him to die during Infinity War.
Justin Brown
Given Ike's notorious penny-pinching, it blows my mind that they still pay Claremont to just sit around doing nothing.
Eli Walker
not surprised. just our typical variant trick thats been meant with diminishing returns while contracts get lined up for new last-minute books to replace post SE plans. shitty day for me because i had to handle a lot of the online damage control until like 8:30
I dunno, ask gerry conway. Marvel doesn't care; its a side book serving a niche
Anthony Russell
>Siri Why couldn't that be her name instead of Riri? It doesn't sound like a slang for retard, it's something of a tech based joke, and Tony fucking with her going "Hey, Siri? No, not you." could have been entertaining.
Joseph Reyes
Real talk: What makes Marvel think that Slott would jump ship to DC?
Rather, what makes Marvel think that DC would take him in?
Kevin Hill
>no one cares about kids books like Marvel Adventures I cared, damn it.
Juan Martin
lol. none. this is just re-shuffling teams around like how we did Marvel Now. Soule is taking a play out of Gillen's book and just taking a Star Wars paycheck while focusing on creator owned books. The SW stuff is like a safe zone from most of the BS because they're always going to sell.
I don't know the last time I've seen Claremont's name in any marketing prep.
Aaron Hernandez
>Ewing can't sell a book. Confirmed to be fake when you infuse your rumours with Sup Forums memes.
Brayden Sanchez
Riri sounds more like a nickname than an actual name. Like, her first name should be Rihanna and her nickname is Riri. Hell, from there you could even get a Siri nickname from people talking to Siri within Riri's earshot.
But "Riri" is not much of a birth name.
Ethan Torres
I'm sincerely sorry you had to do a lot of work for that, Whisperer. Hope it wasn't too much.
Jacob Roberts
Show me ONE (1) Ewing series that sold and didn't bleed readers.
Austin Ross
Show us a Ewing book that sells
Noah Stewart
I hope you don't lose your job, man
Camden Torres
>There's a thought (and I agree) that once the animated Miles movie comes out, they'll have their "Spider-Man for kids" so we want to keep him strong in the comics and cartoon merch.
Major problem with that:
Miles has never really worked and comes off as a piece of Bendis fan fiction. Never mind that white readers are starting to resent the obvious efforts by Marvel editors at racially replacing heroes for no other reason than pushing diversity. Besides which, Peter Parker is Spider-Man in the same way that Clark Kent is Superman. I have doubts that the Sony animated movie is going to change that.
Aaron Robinson
I want to believe.
Noah Torres
Has even one of his titles been a strong seller?
James Lewis
Show me a modern era writer that sells. All that sells now is Batman and Spider-Man.
Carson Brown
Gillen?
Logan Sanders
Bendis.
Nicholas Brooks
You'd think Hickman would come back. It's not like his own stuff is making waves.
Bentley Sanchez
Johns.
Tyler Young
Kirkman
Isaiah Richardson
What are the chances of Miles/Kamala?
Lucas Foster
Are you fucking autistic? Neither of them are new.
Dominic Walker
Pls respond.
Aiden Brown
>His Avengers BC thing is just a Morrison mini series idea he has. So basically the higher ups took a story that Aaron was working on the side and made it the centerpiece of their legacy thing. It's pointless.
Ryder Ortiz
>All that sells now is Batman and Superman. FTFY
Luke Cox
You never said "new", dumbass. >Show me a modern era writer They're all "modern era".
Jose Martin
Are you fucking retarded? The post said "modern era writer". All of those are modern era writers. If you want to say new writer then say new writer, people can't read your retarded mind and figure out what you're trying to say.
William Thompson
Oh? You'd think that the Disney Marketing/pr team would be welcome.
And maybe worth joining too. Just saying.
Jose Wilson
Two decades old is not the modern era by any means. Nobody responds to late 90s or early 2000s as modern era.
Jaxson Lewis
Gonna need to take a break soon cause I haven't even been home since leaving work. Trying to rapid fire these
Carnage: big villain for the Venom plans Power Pack: early early development for a freeform show, comic would follow obviously
cause thats just how the comic business works. he likes superheroes. i don't think anyone would turn down the opportunity to write superman or spiderman or batman or x men
This is how Marvel corporate works under Ike: we don't give the fox and sony movies anything but we will milk the cash in on comics.
After X3, the plan was to do a teen focused reboot, so we were going to cash in on that. Not literally the movie cast, but remove the baggage and make them streamlined and accessible to younger demos.
Claremont is like the "Spider Man wedding" of X Men. Its this unwieldy thing that none of the senior editors like that they want to rewind but because of the movie deal we can't make new IP.
X-Men has been a micromanaged mess since I started here. AVX was a sales team gimmick to replicate Civil War, which messed up Schism. Remender's plans got hijacked by the time displaced O5 which was a pretty shameless Bendis pitch to corporate. There's no central architect guiding the franchise, just big plans that get derailed by the next sales gimmick.
Then the fox talks started going really south and it wasn't just "don't give them new ideas" but actively scale it back.
Yes Ike and corporate really thought they could replace X Men with Inhumans. They don't actually care what it is, just as long as they own it.
The 05 was seen as a way to scale it back and might as well "House of M" the last vestige of Grant Morrison's run and just make Scott & Emma straight up super villains. But its been a mess cause no two writers are working together on the bigger picture and Gillen and Aaron and Remender all had different plans.
IVX was a mercy killing to a character that had been written into a corner
Landon Flores
Bendis, Johns and Kirkman are all current writers, you mong.
Samuel Campbell
Superman doesn't sell more than Spider-Man. Superman sells even less than tec.
Alexander Bell
So did I. And I even liked Spidey as well, except for the middle issues (#4-7) which featured some of the worst art in recent memory.
Oh well.
Nothing for me at Marvel anymore these days. And sadly it doesn't look like there is gonna be anything in the future either.
Juan Harris
Fan fiction or not that is a good solution to the legacy cancer.
Gabriel Diaz
Superman has been outselling both for months now. Supes and Bats have been topping sales while Spider-man barely even comes close
Gabriel Sanders
>Vision dying
he's not gonna die, but Thanos is going to get that fucking stone and Vision will be comatose because of it
Sebastian Garcia
Hickman
Christian Ramirez
I want to believe, too. Any Avengers news? Anything on Pymtron, Wasp, Hawkeye, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, Vision, or Hercules?
Evan Bennett
Does Hickman even have anything in circulation right now
Manhattan Projects has gone tits up with an indefinite hiatus if not cancelled entirely
and I'm not aware of anything else he's been working on
Elijah Garcia
Thanks for your time, user. It has been a really interesting read.
Cameron Thompson
Of MJ and Peter aren't together, then will Peter date anyone else we'll-known?
Also, does this mean Black Cat as evil Kingpin is coming to an end?
Gabriel Russell
Do you mean in the MCU? He doesn't even have an Infinity Stone in the comics.