Gravity Falls

How would you fix the show?

Assuming no behind-the-scenes problems, etc.

Only thing I took issue with was the ending. There were lots of great things about it, some mediocre things, some bad things. I think they just needed a little more space and time, really. I wish they'd rounded out the character development for the secondary characters

It would be nice if you were a little more specific instead of going "muh ending, muh character development". What were the good and bad things about it?

Also, I'm not really sure how much more decent material they could have come up with. I have a feeling a hypothetical season 3 would have ruined the show.

That whole end fight scene between the Mech and the main antagonist was just anti-climatic. There was honestly nothing at risk because you knew the protagonists were going to succeed.

Plus, bringing Stan back within the minute of erasing his memory was pretty lame in itself. They effectively castrated any sense of emotion that scene held. It's been a while so if there are any other faults with the ending that I noticed then I'm just not remembering them.

I literally wasn't sure whether you were talking about the season 1 or 2 finale until the second paragraph.

Remove Wendy and all the teens

I agree stan should've stayed a vegetable, him geting his memory back just made it not a sacrifice.

I get it's a teens show but that doesn't mean they should completely shy away from things like that. The fact that Bill couldn't kill anyone just made him non-threatening. Like what was the point of having Mable in that bubble instead of removing her outright if she's been such a thorn.

I think most of the follies in the show stem from it being unable to tackle more serious themes and consequences.

It's still great though.

The largest (not the only one, but the largest) problem I've had is the complete absolute mischaracterization of Stan during the finale. Stan coherently acts like a bastard with a heart of gold for the duration of the show, being a flawed but fundamentally good person. He also has an iron will and at least some concept of "greater good" considering he spent years trying to save his brother.

Then during the finale he just decides not to follow Ford's plan TO SAVE THE GODDAMN WORD just because he's super jelly and mad that the kids like him more :'(

It's just the epitome of bad, lazy writing. Hirsch is good at slice of life, low stakes shit but the moment any kind of actual serious conflict with true consequences comes into place he just becomes suuuuper lazy.

>Like what was the point of having Mable in that bubble
The bubble was essentially a massive flytrap, he says so himself. Anyone going in to save mabel *COUGHDIPPERCOUGH* would also be trapped in their own fantasies. Bills idea was probably to get as many prophecy people and especially Dips out of the picture.

-More build-up towards the prophecy wheel
-Make Weirdmageddon more of a bizarre hellscape and less of a whackyland
-"Escape from Reality" focuses on Mabel and how she eventually breaks free from the bubble of her own will
-Change Dipper's reason for going back home with Mabel ("The town will always be here, but I'll only get one chance to grow up with you.")
-Have Stan recover all of his memories of what happened during the summer while Ford still has to help him regain his memories of their childhood.
-Waddles stays at the Mystery Shack to be its new mascot and Mabel fits him with her shooting star sweater

The ending should have had an actual sacrifice. I understand that it's a Disney show so actual death would've been out of the question for anything that isn't a paranormal creature like Bill, but there was no reason to make Stan regain his memory within 3 minutes.

It wasn't Disney's decision, it was Alex's. We don't KNOW if Disney would have allowed him that because Alex never tried. He said he didn't want to punish the twins by having them metaphorically lose their uncle. I guess in his mind, the memory thing was more cruel to Dipper and Mabel more than it was redeeming for Stan.

The show does not have to be fix, but some extras episode will improve the show

Then why didn't he make it so it was actually impossible, or at least extremely difficult to leave? The bubble being as toothless as it was, especially for a character who has displayed the extraordinary willpower and resiliace of Dipper, just serves to Make Bill look like even more for an incompetent fuckwit doing things "for teh lulz".

Hirsch actually addressed this stupid point:
>It was never the plan for Stan to lose his memory fully. I love these characters. I loved to see that they are willing to risk it all, but I love them too much to have them lose it all oractually die. The idea that the memory gun would be a way to defeat Bill seemed like a good way, within our internal rules,to take down a character who seemed undefeatable, but at the end of the day, it was very important that Dipper and Mabel would have a final goodbye with their Uncle Stan that was a real goodbye—[that] the Stan we know, and the Dipper and Mabel that we know, got to look each other in the eye, see how much they meant to each other and hug before [the twins] got on that bus to leave town. If Stan had lost his memory for good, that would [have] provided some interesting narrative places for him and his brother to go, but ultimately the show is about the kids. Stan and his brother are meant to be a parable [that show]what can go wrong in a family relationship, [but also]show that, with hard work and sacrifice, the riff can be repaired. If Stan's memory had been fully erased, it wouldn't punish himso much because he'd be gone, but it would punish Ford, Dipper and Mabel most. Even though Ford might deserve that punishment, Dipper and Mabel do not. Ultimately, I felt it would be unfair for them to go through that. As an audience member, I wanted to see that final goodbye.

Hirsch has shit taste. Saying "B-b-but I don't like that" doesn't mean it wouldn't have been better.

That's exactly what an amateur would say in response. Hirsch is a professional showrunner, and because of that he knows the messaging and characterization issues that would result from Stan losing his memory permanently.

Not to mention that it would have robbed us of some of the best moments of the series, let alone the finale: Stan handing over the shack, but even more so the whole Stanowar II deal.

>Hirsch is a professional showrunner
He had one show that he wanted to quit after 20 episodes because he overworked himself. Then he let the pacing and writing of the second season suffer as a result.

Not very professional sounding to me.

I wouldn't backtrack on the character development Wendy, Soos, Pacifica, and Mabel that "Into the Bunker", "Blendin's Game", "NWMN" and "Sock Opera" did with each character's respectively

Here's my idea for a change to the finale that I think would at least partially solve the problems people had with Mabel. I might've posted this in a thread some months ago, I can't quite remember.

The idea would be set during the scene in which Bill is about to kill Dipper or Mabel in front of Stan and Ford. When it's unsure who he's going to pick, Mabel nervously and reluctantly decides to sacrifice her life for Dipper's. This would partially be out of love for her brother and partially be out of guilt for having given away the rift that caused Weirdmageddon, believing it to be all her fault.

She doesn't mention why she decides to sacrifice herself, so Bill decides to force her to admit what she did to Stan, Dipper, and Ford. Mabel tearfully spills her guts about it, and Bill decides to milk this for all it's worth by forcing her to repeat it tothe entire town. He then gleefully tells her that after the barrier is broken, he'll happily tell the entire world that it's all her fault.

After that, Bill drops her on the ground, and she takes the opprotunity to give Dipper one last hug. During this, she sobs that she's so, so sorry for everything.

Bill is just about to kill her in some spectacularly gruesome way hen Stan interrupts disguised as Ford and things basically continue like normal.

Later, Dipper and Mabel have a talk about why she decided to try to sacrifice herself. By the end, Mabel's still feeling guilty, but not as much. Still, she's learned her lesson, and resolves to be a better sister from now on. They make up, and all is well.

Extend by another season. Two at most.

Why?

Dipper should have been a girl

Why?

>I'm not really sure how much more decent material they could have come up with. I have a feeling a hypothetical season 3 would have ruined the show.

Oh, they didn't need three seasons to ruin the show

It was supposed to be impossible if t weren't for one thing:

Wendy crush episodes, FUCKING Wendy episodes. Dipper was so used to not getting Wendy or having to accept he'd never have her it helped him realise the Wendy wanting his ass wasn't real. He was like 2 seconds away from being honeypotted otherwise.

>dump Dipper being a pua
>have episode about Ford & McGucket meeting up after all this time
>have Mabel realize what a selfish bitch she's been & she just lets go of the bubble rather than what we got
>take away bullshit with memory gun
>no giant mech mystery shack
>have the Stans fight, but they end up reconciling to save their family
>use the fucking space ship if you're going to set it up
>have Stan fight Bill in the mindscape (he was shown to know more about it than anyone else in Bill's first episode). if you need an explanation, how about he spends so much time asleep that he knows how to dream anything he wants
>either no redemption for Gideon or have his redemption be because he sees Bill is just about to kill her
>Mabel can't take the pig with her, but Dipper goes with her & says something cheesy
>if you're going to use the memory gun, don't outright say that's a way to kill Bill. it gives away the whole way you're going to kill him
>bring back the Shapeshifter
>if you're going to erase Stan's mind, don't give him his memories back

Either change Weirdmageddon significantly or remove it entirely

>dump Dipper being a pua
No thanks, that BTFO of everyone saying Dipper is beta, Hirsch is SJW, etc. was fucking awesome

Stan should've lost his memories, but then Ford says something like "we can try to take him back, but it'll take some time"
Timeskip to a month later, Stan remembers the twins, Ford, Wendy and Soos, and hands over the Shack to him. Then he goes on adventures with Ford and begins regaining her memory

even though they acted like he was in the wrong for just talking to these girls & getting his confidence up? or how they acted like he was in the wrong for candy being hurt by all the girls he was talking to b4 they got together?
i wouldn't mind it coming in early season 2, but the 2nd half should pretty much be entirely spent building up to the ending

Hirsch wouldn't have gotten away with treating her the way he treated Dipper.

How so?

Fuck off, you're just going to deny what he says if he goes into detail

This is literally an appeal to authority. Kill yourself.

I physically cringed when he wouldn't get in the goddamn circle. No realistic person who get pissy then of all times.

There are dozens of things you could fix about Season 2.5 to improve the show, to say nothing of how much better things would have been paced with a third season to work with. Instead I'm gonna focus on utility - making the biggest fixes with the least amount of changes.

"Escape from Reality" was the biggest mistake of the finale, the jokes are cheap, the entire episode completely undermines the tone of the finale and more importantly the character development we needed to see in the penultimate episode. Fix that episode and you fix a LOT of the problems people had with the ending to the series.

Everything building up to Mabel being tricked by Bill and being trapped in the prison follows Mabel's character arc in the final episodes of the season about not wanting Summer to end, to lose her friends, grow apart from her brother, and grow up. What the episode really needed to be was a Gravity Falls twist on "For The Man Who Has Everything", showing Mabel living out her days in a perfect, endless Summer in Gravity Falls with her friends and brother, but ultimately coming to the realization on her own about how wrong and hollow it all is. We need to see Mabel make a personal sacrifice for once and give up something that makes her happy for the sake of doing the right thing.

Instead we got Dippy Fresh and Mabel in Wackyland.

All the episodes were fine so I wouldn't really change anything.
Maybe more Shmebulock but that's it

I still think it's weird that Mabel never apologized for Dippy Fresh

erase the second half of season 2
stretch out the first half to last an entire season
make the society of the blind eye the main villains of the season
end with Ford coming out of the portal
add season 3
actually use Ford as a character and talk about his time in alternate dimensions
make Bill into a good villain or scrap him and make a new villain
make mabel actually suffer consequences of her actions
make a decent finale
Dipper accepts Ford's offer to be his apprentice
they don't both act like idiots and not realize that mabel can just stay too and go to school in gravity falls

misc:
actually use wendy, pacifica, gideon, etc, give them actual character development
don't give the characters tools only to have them never used again
either let dipper get a girl or don't focus on romance at all
make the mysteries actually mean something

I can see the episode being misplaced angle, but there wasn't anything wrong with the ep itself really. He was shown to be in the wrong only for leading the girls on.

Mabel doesn't apologize for anything, and that's what makes her part in the finale all the more insufferable - her brother risks life and limb to rescue Mabel from what he, his friends, and the audience all assume is either gonna be
A) Some horrible mental prison where she's being tortured constantly or
B) Some perfect like they're going to have to break her heart by tearing her away from
and instead she's the fucking mayor of smile town.

But he wasn't leading the girls on. Nothing either the girls or Dipper did showed any intention of leading to an actual relations ship, and before you say "muh Phone numbers" keep in mind that they meet at tourist traps as strangers. If you think anything long term or lasting can come from that you are a fucking idiot.

The writers had this weird thing against Mabel suffering even the slightest bit

So is it a rock or is it a face?

It's the face of a rock monster, Obviously.

It's a football.

So is it a rock?

It's a rock that *looks* like a face.

Are you saying it's a face?

A rock that looks like a face Becuase it IS a face, just made out of rock.

But that's not how it was actually portrayed. The girls clearly expected him to contact them, and Dipper himself considered whether what he was doing was wrong.

3rd season
Bit more backstory on Bill
Give Mabel an actual character arc
Paddipica.

>actually portrayed
How it is portrayed is nothing compared to how it actually is. If Hirsch and the writing team seriously expect people to at like that over a random encounter at a tourist trap then they are autists with an understanding of social situations on par with /r9k/bots.

For the last time it's NOT an actual face

Or is it?

I think it's a metaphor

A third season. The first half of Season 2 was perfectly well and good; if not better than the first season. The issue seemed to from the fact all the build up for the later half of season 2 and early season 3 had to be scrunched together into half a season. And it was fucking terrible.

>Warhammer 40k techpriest.jpg

>WE NEED ANOTHER SEASON GUYS
>literally what the creator was trying to avoid

I thought 3 seasons were initially planned though? It sure had the setup for a three season show.

you realize that if he made another season, he'd probably make it very political

>How would you fix the show?
Remove Mabel.

Unironically this

Ironically this

Figuratively this

Realistically this

Mabel literally makes the show what it is, dumbass.

Bad?

It was supposed to be 3 seasons and a movie, but Hirsh realized too late how much work that would take on a project he was already bored with. He was lucky Disney let him end it at 2 seasons.

Mabel is a selfish obnoxious piece of shit, her entire personality is about being as annoying and childish as possible.
Alex should have give her some character development at least.

It really would've only taken a couple scenes to give her some development and not have her end the series as a selfish shitstain

Or at least not have that fucking unicorn subplot that taught Mabel literally nothing.

Mabel > Wendy > Grenda > Pacifishit

Debate me fuckers

We get it Alex, you wanna bang your sister.

HOLY SHIT

If you're gonna cite inaccurate info, at least do so correctly: it was "gonna be" 3 seasons OR a movie, not both.

But it was actually going to be 1 season, a second season might never have happened let alone a third.

Giddeons arc didn't really go anywhere. Wendy was useless until the end. Bill should have been more ruthless.

Because the big name on a project always knows what he's talking about right?

If Mabel was removed, nothing would really change. There would still be mysteries, there would still be adventures, there would still be Dipper learning to grow up. Mabel doesn't contribute anything irreplaceable to the show.

>people to at like that

Remove Wendy

>relations ship

>Some perfect like they're

What?

>No realistic person who get pissy then of all times.

>How would you fix the show?

get rid of the truly awful fucking ending and all the build up leading to it

continue with the mysteries and adventures

maybe have it span over a few separate summers, so one full summer is one full season

eventually have it lead to Gravity High

>Gravity High

I hope it won't be anything like Equestria Girls.

3rd season
remove wendip parts

What the fuck is a pua?

pick up artist

Pick-up-artist, referring to Roadside Attraction.

>i wouldn't mind it coming in early season 2
This, we just got Ford and the shack protected by unicorn hair, then they leave him and the Shack behind. It was a waste.

Giving Wendy actual epsiodes and tagging along more. Actual development for Mabel, More development for Pacifica. At least one more season to give Ford more development.

Why are you randomly quoting things?

Gotta wonder how Hirsch feels about one-nigh-stands.

How is that any different from say, Wendy having had multiple boyfriends?

From the start, Give Wendy flaws to learn from and an actual character arc, have her tag along considerably more often, and either tone down Dipper's crush significantly or remove it entirely. In general, make her feel more like part of the main cast like she supposedly was

What would be a good Wendy episode? We got close with last Mabelcorn, she was really more of an accessory there.

Maybe something involving a magical/supernatural disease. I always felt the show was missing an episode with one of those

3rd Season. The show was great, it just needed more room to end things right.

>One more season in the middle, each representing one month of summer vacation
>Finale is theatrically-released movie and/or feature-length TV movie instead of 3 episodes released 84 years apart
>Entirely remove the Mabel dreamworld subplot
>Remove prophecy wheel
>Weirdmageddon far, FAR more of an eldritch nightmare world
>Soos sacrifices himself to save the kids
>Stan's memories aren't brought back
>Final photograph in the montage during the end credits: the now-adult Dipper and Mabel having returned to GF with their spouses and own children (twins, natch) posing happily with aged-up versions of all the characters
>^^ Only one Pines brother in picture, ambiguous as to which it is (maybe wearing Stan's fez and Ford's glasses)

Probably more I could think of but I'm tired.