So now that Wally has time stop does that mean he can counter every other speedster by using it...

So now that Wally has time stop does that mean he can counter every other speedster by using it? How are they going to balance this shit?

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I always thought a villain that could manipulate time would be a threat to a DC speedster (it probably has been done a few times before but I'm mainly aware of the rogues and other speedsters), that ends that notion.

He's going to have some kind of limiter, you can count on it already.

And he's not the first speedster to have time stop power, tight? Nor is the first time he has this kind of power, or something like it. It's a bit like when he got stuck into really, really, really, really slot bullet time because he was stressed because he couldn't save everyone. Or when he was bored: it happened to him before, if I'm not misremembering it.

I wonder if Waid's run storytime user is here and can confirm.

>tight?
I meant "right".

There is a difference. Wally has only ever ran at stopped time once to beat instant transportation. All the other times it was just slowed down extremely.

Why do they need to balance it? He was already the strongest one. Just gives him a more unique gimmick and nothing else has changed.

>Time-stop powers

Do you have pictures? Issue?

Nope. Thawne had timestop powers in the New 52 and Barry Allen just clenched his asshole and immediately undid it. Wally's power is pointless against top tier speedsters like Barry and Thawne.

It was in the last Titans issue

How would Wally fare against Stopman?

>Barry
>Top tier
He is like number 3 fastest most and more like number 8.

Does stopman rape them?

Barry and both walls are the fastest men alive. But many speedforce users have their own special things.

By the way zoom is the fastest now.

That's literally Zoom's powers.

He could slow down the flow of time to the point that it was all but stopped.

Wally had to borrow all of Jay and Bart's speed in order to go so fast that even with time basically stopped he was still moving fast enough to keep up with Zoom.

Yfw wally has ZA WARUDO

Barry is and always will be better than Wally. That's the entire point of Barry's return. He was and always will be the best and that's why Wally's tenure was always doomed to end.

That's strange since Barry is still slower than Wally and Zoom in cannon.

Does he still have the pacemaker, or was that already undone?

He's slower than Thawne but that's it.

The Pacemaker is apparently what's giving him time stop powers.

Wally was much faster than Barry up until his recent nerf user. This was even referenced in the comics. Nothing Barry has done in the comics comes even close to What Wally could do.

No he isn't. Hugs bookmto uses hi my so fastest Man alive. So does Wally.

Zooms from the future do faster than both. You can tell they are grooming Zoom to replace Barry someday.

He is Johns mega fav.

Barry was immediately more powerful the second he came back in the original Flash Rebirth. The entire point of Flash Rebirth was that Barry is the center of the Flash family. He literally is the Speed Force. No one besides Thawne (who literally is the Reverse Speed Force) can be faster than him.

Wally saying he beat Barry in a race means jack shit. So did Superman.

Oh, that makes sense. Cause that's how things should work.

Have you fucks never read the comics. Wally is literally a billion times faster than zoom. Even in Rebirth Wally was faster than Barry. What the fuck are you faggots on about? Never has Barry or Zoom done a single thing on par with Barry's speed. Even Wally in the show is faster than Barry.
Read the fucking comics jesus christ.

Thawne beat Wally, by himself, in Rogue War. Fairly easily, too. Thawne embarrassed Wally in the original Flash Rebirth.

Wally bested Thawne a couple of times, both when he was very early in his career. He has NO CHANCE against Thawne, especially modern Thawne.

"Even in Rebirth Wally was faster than Barry" the fuck he was. Freaking Lady Savitar was handing Wally his shit. Barry beat her SINGLEHANDEDLY. Thawne was running circles around everyone, yet Barry was the only one fast enough to stop him.

He's literally the Speed Force. Wally only accesses a fraction of BARRY'S power. Anything Wally can do is merely just the trickle down effect of Barry's power.

You are retarded. Wally has done things Thawne couldn't even imagine doing. He isn't faster than Wally. This is an objective fact. Zoom (as in Hunter) is also much faster than The Reverse Flash.

Did you just ignore Flash Rebirth? Wally was helpless against him. Thawne was mocking him for not knowing SHIT about his own powers. Thawne fixed his kids in half a second when Wally couldn't do shit.

Thawne's the master. The only reason Barry can stand a chance against him is he's the most powerful of the good speedsters. Even the editor of The Flash says Barry's faster than Wally.

Zolomon doesn't exist anymore so not really anything to talk about.

>Did you ignore Flash rebirth
You mean in the final scene where Barry wasn't fast enough so Wally was behind him pushing him forward?
It's mentioned because Wally is faster than Zoom and Zoom is faster than RF

is it something he activates? or is it just whenever he runs?
are there risks?

Call me when Barry outruns instantaneous travel.

Read the issue and find out yourself, user.

Wally wasn't pushing him forward in the finale scene. He did it at the start but once he helped Barry get through that first hurdle Barry was always leading him with Wally behind. As it should be.

And again, you're ignoring Thawne beating Wally one on one in Rogue War rather easily. That's why Barry had to show up -- Wally stands no chance against Thawne alone, much less Thawne and Zolomon.

Barry's ran across space in a "fraction of an instant."

Human Race wasn't even Wally's own speed. It was literally everyone BUT Wally's speed.

>Leading him
Holy shit, no. He was behind him helping him out. Jesus fucking Christ Barryfags don't even read comic books.

>Fraction of an instant
Not instant travel.
>If a character beats another that means they are faster or stronger
I guess WW is stronger than supes then you idiot.

Read it you fucking idiot. Wally's not helping at all. If anything he's benefiting from getting to run in Barry's wake. Wally's just looking on as Barry gives his speech to Thawne as he runs him back to the present. Wally doesn't do anything after that first push.

I don't think you understand what the word instant means.

Wonder Woman can outfight Superman, sure. When it comes to speedsters it's all about speed. Thawne schooled Wally. If Wally was SO MUCH FASTER than Thawne like this fucking faggot says he wouldn't get smacked down like a bitch.

Said the bias'd wallyfag.

>Wally doesn't do anything after his first push
Because he pushed Barry so he didn't need to. Holy shit Barryfags are retarded. Barry couldn't be as fast as Wally so Wally had to push him.
>Wally has been shown to be faster than Barry multiple times and it is even said in the comics and in Rebirth
>YOU ARE BIASED
No, I just read comic books you idiot.

>Barryfags ruin another Flash thread
Fucking CW casuals.

That means absolutely nothing since it's still your opinion.

Making "I read comics books hurr" not a good defense against libel.

It had nothing to do with speed. Barry didn't know how to cope with travelling through the Speed Force. Wally gave him some advice, and voila, Barry immediately learned in seconds what it took Wally like 100 comics to get good at. Because Barry is faster and better.

The entire point of Wally's own character arc is that Barry is the ideal he strives to live up to. Barry necessarily has to be better than Wally or he loses his place as the ideal.

...

>Facts are opinions
In no point during Rebirth has it been shown that Barry is faster than Wally while on the other hand it has been literally stated that Wally is faster than Barry multiple times.

Wally's never been shown to be faster than Barry. It's not like we've actually seen them seriously race even if Wally says he could beat Barry in a race.

Like I said, the people literally running the Flash franchise right now say Barry is faster. What more do you want? and this was before the pacemaker shit.

No, the characters are tools for writers to tell stories with. And because of this that means interactions do not always play out exactly like they should simply because the story demands it be different.
I'll also add to everyone in this thread that arguing about power levels is the most fucking basement dweller of a thing to do, but you all are clearly having fun so carry on.

or just tell me, user.

>The entire point of Wally's own character arc is that Barry is the ideal he strives to live up to
You didn't read the comic. Pretty early in Waids run Wally beat Barry's speed. In fact Wally has been faster than Barry for 25 years now.
>I never read the comics
It's literally the entire point of The Return of Barry Allen
>the people literally running the Flash franchise right now say Barry is faster
Who? Give me the quote? Since this has never been the case in the comics. Read the fucking comics faggot.

>Zoom
Wasn't that Hunter Zolomon?

Your opinion, is not fact.

Just outrun the time stop

>Wally's never been shown to be faster than Barry
Why don't you actually read the comics? It has literally been stated AND SHOWN dozens of times
See above.

Aside from the fact that Rebirth established the fact that Barry is the source of the Speed Force and thus Wally's power is literally only a fraction of Barry's power that Wally gets, right?

Or the fact that Thawne was clearly significantly faster than Wally and Barry was equal to Thawne.

Or that Wally couldn't even perceive Lady Savitar and Barry beat her effortlessly.

Wally is necessarily weaker than Barry. He always will be. The only time Wally can be "better" is when Barry is dead. So until that happens (keep dreaming Wallyfags) you better learn to cope.

>He is the source of the speedforce
Doesn't make him faster. By that retarded shit logic Barry should have always been the fastest speedster but that isn't the case.
>Or the fact that Thawne was clearly significantly faster than Wally
When? Wally has outran death itself faggot.
>He is weaker, he always will be
Except he even stated in rebirth that he was faster.

>You didn't read the comic. Pretty early in Waids run Wally beat Barry's speed. In fact Wally has been faster than Barry for 25 years now.

Not really, though. I mean they said shit but Barry was WAY faster than light. When they said Wally was faster than Barry it was when Wally just barely exceeded lightspeed.

Post Crisis retcon, I suppose, but if you want to use retcons then the fucking Flash Rebirth retcon changed all of that.

twitter.com/bcunningham71/status/866372505711255552

There's Brian Cunningham, the Flash editor, citing Barry created the Speed Force and that makes him faster than Wally.

Wasn't Barry being the source of the Speedforce retconned? I don't remember so I could be wrong. Not the same user btw.

Wally has a much higher max speed. There have been very small instances where Barry went and thought faster than Wally but that is because Wally's powers increase depending on the situation. Wally isn't always instant travel level and neither is Barry.
>Not really
Except it was explicitly stated

No, he's still the source of it.

It was a retcon, so of course it's not going to be perfectly congruous with everything that came before. Wally "surpassed" Barry in The Return of Barry Allen but wasn't even light speed. Jay Garrick was fucking lightspeed in his first comic.

>Editor
And yet the actual writers say differently. He also said he doesn't think which is far from the word of god.

Nope, Flash editor confirmed it's still the case.

>Jay Garrick was fucking lightspeed in his first comic.
I need a source on this shit since I actually read it and he could rarely outrun a bullet.

Wally is never at instant travel level. That was him getting a temporary power boost from both the population of Earth and the population of Kwyzz. That was not Wally being faster than anyone. You could've swapped out Wally for anyone else and they can do the same thing because that wasn't Wally's speed.

Except he ran at infinite speed. Adding numbers up together doesn't equal infinity. It was Wally learning how to bend the 4th dimension that did that. Even then you have Wally outrunning death.

New52 Zoom did this with Barry, countering him all the time... except for the bullshit ending, where they didn't know how to beat the OP Zoom and went with some bullshit like "speed depends on time and distance passed, but u only slow time, while the Flash passes distance, so I'm suddenly faster now!"

In Johns's Blitz arc of the old New Earth Wally West comics Wally had to steal every other good speedster's powers to be able to stay on the same level as Zoom, and even then he was slower and won by a lucky shot throwing Hunter into one of the time reaps he's been opening by using his timeforce powers.

It was that and him running through the same portal in space as the big bad. He still had extra time to adjust every radio station on Earth to the same station though.

That doesn't mean shit. Barry might have created it but he is still worse than other speedsters at using it.

It's all narration but it happens multiple times. I mean it was comics for children so I wouldn't worry too much about the depth or consistency of the writing.

The main point was that Barry was going lightspeed forever. The Return of Barry Allen's version of Wally was nowhere near that fast.

Yes, the second Zoom (and arguably the THIRD Reverse-Flash), the one without the "Professor" moniker.

But he needed all of that power from the people to do that. Otherwise he wouldn't have asked for it.

It was just time travel anyhow. He ran through the fourth dimension, which is time, and appeared there before the race started. Not that big a deal.

Why do wallyfags keep bringing it up if it doesn't matter to you?

That got retconned. Jay and Barry were only able to go light speed after Barry gave Jay the speedforce and Barry died in it.

Except for in the very comic they establish it where Barry is better and faster than all the other speedsters.

Barry also outran Death. Nothing new.

Because I am sick of idiots who don't read comic books and only watching the CW show getting shit wrong.
Source nigger.

Lots of things get retconned. The most recent relevant retcon is the "Barry is the Speed Force" retcon which trumps any other argument. Wally's literally just an offshoot of Barry's power. The people in charge who write the comics agree.

Barry is the fastest Flash. Wally gets to keep calling himself The Flash as a courtesy.

...

>Is able to go back in time in a way no one else has been able to
>not a big deal
Barry still needs the treadmill to go back or forward in time.
That is a retarded argument. Just because Barry created the speedforce doesn't mean he is the fastest. If that were the case then he should have been the fastest the second he got his powers.
If I create a skateboard does that mean no one is able to ride it better than me?

Final Crisis. Have YOU read comics?

If i created a gun is no one able to shoot it better than me?

What's Flashes relationship with the Source, btw?

I think the other user's argument is because of the recent retcon, well, relatively recent, barry now being source of the speedforce changed things.

I did, what about it?
It is still cannon and stated that Wally is faster.

Barry broke the speed of light dozens of times. His death in COIE was literally narrated by him going hundreds of times the speed of light.

But even if that didn't matter, that's not the point. This comic is from the 90s. You're 20 years out of date. Barry's the fastest NOW. He has been since he came back.

Here's a really fucking easy way to tell who the fastest is: Who's the star of The Flash? Who's the main Flash?

When Wally was the main Flash he was the fastest, sure. But he's not. He hasn't been since 2009. Since then Barry has been the fastest. The second Barry came back he was immediately superior to Wally purely because he's the main Flash and Wally's the spinoff/offbrand version.

>Wally's never been shown to be faster than Barry.
I know this is bait, but even if we disregard all the New Earth stuff as no longer canon (even though it's more like in a limbo of uncertain canonicity), there is still the latest Williamson's run on the Flash.

And like an issue or two ago, Barry gave us the CURRENT official ranking:
>Thawne is faster than me... Faster than even Wally!

That's what we have right now. Wally got slower after the pacer incident, but last Titans issue he suddenly discovered that it somehow gives him Zoom powers (almost a full time stop on the level of Hunter Zolomon or New52 Thawne).

That's a stupid fucking question. You have to build guns from other resources.

If you exuded guns spontaneously from your being you would have more access to guns than someone who picks up some of your leftover guns on the ground.

That's still a stupid argument. Someone who creates something isn't going to necessarily be the best at it. Wally is still able to use the speedforce far better than Barry. In fact even Barry said this himself.

Stating that Thawne is faster than Wally doesn't make Wally faster than Barry, what the heck? Barry doesn't even know how fast Wally is. Last he remembered of him he was Kid Flash. They've barely interacted since then.

And yet Barry himself said Wally is better at using the speedforce and it's been shown to be the case.
Barry himfucking self says you are wrong.

>How are they going to balance this shit?

Bring back Zolomon and have him kick Wally's ass again.

>Aside from the fact that Rebirth established the fact that Barry is the source of the Speed Force
Being the nexus of Speed Force doesn't make him the most skilled in using it.

Generally, Wally is the most proficient Speed Force Wizard and the one able to bend it to achieve infinite speeds. HOWEVER, Barry, while not exactly the fastest Flash generally, can tap into infinite powers "when it counts", as in, during crisis events. I don't think Wally, much less Thawne, ever run so fast it ruptured the timeline itself.

Yeah, until Barry actually has to use it. Then he's got so much power he can destroy the universe because THE ENTIRE SPEED FORCE IS HIS POWER.

The second Barry feels like it Wally doesn't even have powers anymore.

He's a Japanese character who exclusively targets women.

He ain't buying them pizza.

...

>I have no reading comprehension

Yeah man, Wally can like, make clothes and shit out of Speed Force. He knows more tricks, I'll grant you. Barry's still faster. The fucking guy in charge of The Flash stated it as plain as day.

Holy shit you are retarded and clearly don't read comics. Barry can't consciously decide who does and doesn't get the speedforce. If that were the case then he would take it away from everyone that is evil.

...

So barry's an idiot savant that trust's his arch nemesis to do the right thing instead of just being honest with the people he loves.

He jobs by stupidity. Why are we having a power level argument when that is the more important thing. He trusted thawne, again.