“Why Don’t You Get Things Started???”, the audience exclaimed.
First I have to say that I am overwhelmed by the outpouring of love and support in your comments, from friends old and new, celebrities, press, and fans worldwide. You have no idea how much that means to me. I keep tearing up as I try to read…my keyboard is a mess…. That might explain the technical difficulties that have prevented me from posting. Hopefully things are working and you are reading Thursday’s post now.
I understand and appreciate your range of emotions from sorrow to outrage as I have traveled that path myself. There are many things to tell you about all of this so in order to avoid writing boring dissertations, I am (hopefully) going to break this into more manageable and digestible bits. Plus, its Saturday and I have grass to mow…and laundry to do…
Since so many of you have responded to the last sentence of my first post, “failed in my duty to my hero”, please indulge me in adding a bit more to try to clarify.
I guess I always thought of the work I’ve done with the Muppets as tending my little portion of the garden, you know? But, in the big scheme of all the fear, negativity and really bad stuff in our world it seemed quite small and often ineffective.
I would read cynical comments to fan’s concerns like, ‘I don’t know what the big deal is. It’s just a bunch of puppets’ or ‘Get a life! Anybody can do a Kermit impression…’, and there was a part of me that couldn’t help taking it personally because I realized that, in my mind at least, they were trampling Jim’s legacy. I get pretty defensive when people go after those I care about.
While Jim was unassuming and graceful, he was also powerful in his gentleness and integrity. And those ‘cute little Muppets’ who so many think are for kids were, at their best, raucous, irreverent, outspoken and rebellious against injustice. So, when I speak of ‘failing’ in my duty, a big part of what I mean is this:
Do the Muppets matter in today’s world? Your comments – indicate that they do.
If they matter, then their history matters. Being at their best is vital. I believe characters like Kermit need to remain built on the sturdy foundation of their past in order to be progressive going forward. Integrity is everything, and that’s true for the Muppets, as well. As one of the last two active originators of the Muppets, I still have a big job to do before the next group can effectively step in.
It is no longer the Muppets if core values are lost or discarded. While I fought very hard for the integrity of the Muppets over the last twelve years largely to my own detriment, maybe I should have fought even harder and louder…and, yes, I would have likely been gone sooner… I fear I was the last samurai.
Aaron Cook
Having read literally every comment left on the first post, I want to point out one left by Peter A. Cancilla. If you’re interested here are the answers to the questions he poses:
Are you burnt-out and disillusioned? Burnt-out, no. Disillusioned, yes. Or maybe a better term is disappointed. I firmly stand by my belief that the needs of a large corporation can indeed be balanced with the creative needs of an anomalous franchise like the Muppets. In my opinion, this relationship should be the very definition of symbiosis, and though these two factors have often appeared to be seemingly irreconcilable, the integration of Jim Henson’s essentials with doing business progressively and effectively has been my primary goal for the Muppets over the last dozen years within Disney. At this point what is your desire? Do you feel taking an indefinite break from a ‘Muppets’ you possibly no longer recognize may be the only option for your peace of mind? Or, if given the chance would you jump back into the work and continue pushing for the tone and personality you know to be appropriate for these sacred characters even if you cannot win every battle? You’re correct that the Muppets are fast becoming something I no longer recognize, but my desire stays the same: to continue doing what I think is best for the Muppets to whatever extent and on whatever level I am asked. If that means doing nothing more than performing Kermit and the other characters in which I am established and forsaking the offering of unsolicited input, then so be it.
For the record, I officially offered to do exactly that within that first telephone call, a second time by communicating it through my attorney, and I committed to memorializing it in writing. It was flatly refused. Do with that what you will…
…More tomorrow. Best to you all!
Jose Nguyen
Continuing from the last thread re-linking the shared petition
This is very upsetting to read through, tried to do right by the characters that Jim created and he got shit on for it. They sacked him and he loves the characters so much he offered to return to the role promising not to interfere with the way Disney is actively harming The Muppets.
Hudson Sanders
Can Disney just say they are sorry, made a mistake, and give him his job back please?
Nicholas Morris
So what were the issues the executives had with him?
Jace Moore
He most likely criticized what they were doing with the characters.
>It is no longer the Muppets if core values are lost or discarded. While I fought very hard for the integrity of the Muppets over the last twelve years largely to my own detriment, maybe I should have fought even harder and louder…and, yes, I would have likely been gone sooner
>You’re correct that the Muppets are fast becoming something I no longer recognize, but my desire stays the same: to continue doing what I think is best for the Muppets to whatever extent and on whatever level I am asked. If that means doing nothing more than performing Kermit and the other characters in which I am established and forsaking the offering of unsolicited input, then so be it.
Colton Hall
We don't know and anons can't answer the question without projecting heavily.
Noah Rodriguez
>Disney >Ever admitting they're wrong
If anything it will be like when Roy Disney made that protest site after he got sacked from the board, he will get the job back but in a limited capacity (so he doesn't get to speak up about anything they do with the characters) and he'll stay on for five more years until Disney is fed up with him and find an excuse to sack him for good.
Logan Martinez
I think Matt Vogel especially feels bad about being chosen to be Kermit, especially since he's worked with Steve for over 15 years
Jaxson Campbell
tl;dr?
Gabriel Butler
He knows that if he speaks up about it he'll get sacked as well.
Cooper Smith
The mouse is greedy and demands unquestionable loyalty no matter their decisions
Logan Cook
>I fear I was the last samurai Dave Goelz is the last of the original Muppet Show crew. I think Dave knows that since he's the last one, he will have little to no power to stop whatever Disney has in mind for the Muppets.
Luke Russell
>Dave Goelz is the last of the original Muppet Show crew.
He is now, Goelz is close to retiring anyway. Especially now with his buddy Steve unceremoniously getting fired by Disney, I honestly doubt there's much keeping him there other than still loving the characters they created with Jim.
Kayden Thomas
>going to Disney in January with my girlfriend >Muppet Vision has been one of my favorites since I was a kid >sees this I'm more mad than hyped now Fuck you Disney, you made me unexcited for my own trip to Disney World
Levi Collins
The video with Matt Vogel as Kermit is supposedly coming out next week, should we mass dislike it as a sign of solidarity to Whitmire?
Enjoy it while you still can, it's Jim Henson last directed movie before his death. There have been loads of rumours about Disney wanting to get rid of it for some time too.
Jaxon Walker
>girlfriend yea ok
Jeremiah Morgan
>you can still see the old sign burned into the bricks
Jackson Carter
Disney does not really give much of a shit about someone else's legacy,
And the company is well known for firing on a whim, to anyone. They dropped Lassiter years earlier minutes after a meeting, and in the form of a memo. They do not give a fuck who they fire or how they fire them, or what contributions they made.
Leo Green
So are they dropping Kermit specifically? Not just replacing the voice?
Levi Torres
Why did they remove the sign?
Josiah Myers
The old one said Jim Henson's Muppet Vision, Disneý wouldn't want to confuse people into thinking they're not their property or something.
They're not dumping Kermit, just the guy who was handpicked by Jim Henson and who has been Kermit's voice and puppeteer for 27 years. Matt Vogel will be replacing him.
Juan Sullivan
>The video with Matt Vogel as Kermit is supposedly coming out next week, should we mass dislike it as a sign of solidarity to Whitmire? It woun't prove anything and it will only hurt Vogel. It isn't Vogel's fault and he's being expected to perform his own characters AS WELL as the ones Whitmire did. Leave Vogel alone.
Levi Thompson
It's not as a slight against Vogel at the least, of course it isn't his fault. It's just to show a sign to Disney that it isn't okay to do what they did.
Lucas Reed
Whitmire is nearly 60. Replacing him now is easier than risking his voice going in the middle of a production. If he hasn't managed to transition into some kind of backstage role yet, well, that's kind of on him, isn't it?
Daniel Young
This. I've got nothing against Matt, but Disney "fucking over the old Gatekeepers" needs to be heard by the public.
Kevin Perez
Dave Goelz is still doing the voice of Gonzo at the age of 71
Hudson Martin
The older Dave got the better Gonzo's voice got I think.
Unlike the guy who plays Big Bird.
That's just kind of sad to hear these days.
Mason Parker
I agree but blasting things with Vogel in it wont send the message you think it will.
Leo Phillips
Like how Casey Kasem's Shaggy started sounding like a dying old man instead of a stoner.
Samuel White
Matt Vogel already does his characters on Sesame Street, Steve stepped down from doing Ernie on Sesame so he could focus on being Kermit. How do they expect Vogel to juggle doing Big Bird, Count von Count with being Floyd Pepper, Robin, Lew Zealand, Uncle Deadly, Crazy Harry and now Kermit on The Muppets?
It's going to be a very rough road for him.
Ryan Parker
>next week You mean tomorrow, cause that was announced last Monday
Adrian Price
Hollywood Studios is in the middle of a transformation.
Thomas Long
Think this thread will still be around by then?
Hudson Thomas
That's fast, I'll make sure to hit the dislike button on that shit tomorrow
Tyler Rivera
Oooooo you're really gonna show them!
Cooper Rodriguez
Something Jim Henson would have done. It's the reason why he wouldn't sell to Disney when he was alive.
Mason Smith
Think Frank Oz will say something about this?
Jace Long
Whitmire didn't agree with the direction that Disney was taking the Muppets in and thought they were actively destroying the brand by neutering it and not living up to Henson's vision. He actively fought against and raised these concerns to Disney, until Disney finally got sick of him not kowtowing to their wishes and fired him. Then he told them that he'd do whatever they wanted and keep his mouth shut if he could keep his job, but it was too little too late.
Now Whitmire regrets not being more vocal earlier on since he realised that while that probably would have gotten him fired much sooner, he might have been able to steer the ship in the right direction before it got to this point and he takes the blame for that. Hence his "failed his hero" comment.
Jaxon Ramirez
WHY IS DISNEY SO EVIL REEEEEEEEEEEE
Zachary Barnes
He has always been pretty vocal about how Disney handled The Muppets (2011) and he probably hates seeing his dear friends get fired by Disney for no reason.
Here's what Frank had to say about the ABC Muppets.
>Did you see the new “The Muppets” TV show on ABC? I did—the first 15 minutes.
>Why did you stop? I felt the show wasn’t true to the characters. There was a purity in each character that was vital. I felt that purity was being moved around to areas that didn’t feel right.
>It was cancelled quickly. My brothers, my sisters, were in there [as the puppeteers]. They did the very best they could. But essentially, they were working with scripts that other people wrote. They had to do it the way it was. If it was given more air and they trusted the performers, as we had air, it would have come alive more. Those abilities, to riff and be smart enough, weren’t appreciated.
>What did you think of “Muppets Most Wanted,” the last movie released by Disney? I think there were some very funny things individually. And the purity of certain characters stayed. I got to hand it to Disney—they tried. It’s very difficult. Disney and all these people are trying to do the right thing. It’s like you’re a fan of Formula One racing, you go to every race. But being a fan of it and driving it are different things. They are fans and they want to drive it as well; it’s not as easy as people think.
Liam Anderson
>They did the very best they could. But essentially, they were working with scripts that other people wrote.
>They had to do it the way it was. If it was given more air and they trusted the performers, as we had air, it would have come alive more. Those abilities, to riff and be smart enough, weren’t appreciated.
So Disney just pinned the blame on Whitmire instead of the hacks writing the show.
Nathan Cooper
I wonder what Disney was actually planning to do with the Muppets that Steve Whitmire had such an issue with? Another movie? Another tv series? What?
Lincoln Garcia
Disney tried making a Sesame Street but with the Muppets there's footage of this attempt on YouTube and it had them interacting with kids
James Torres
Can't wait for the Muppets Cinematic Universe.
Do you think they'll launch it with Muppet Movie or a Kermit solo film? I know Gonzo is their big money character but I think he needs to be established before he gets a solo.
Pigs in Space could be as big a hit as Guardians of the Galaxy.
Sad that we won't ever get Fraggle Rock crossing over because Fox owns the rights.
>he'll stay on for five more years until Disney is fed up with him and find an excuse to sack him for good. Roy wasn't sacked the second time, he retired. Which as a supporter of his protest site, pissed me off, frankly. I wanted him to stick around and lead another animation renaissance.
Jayden King
Man it must suck to be those remaining muppeteers now. I imagine for all but Goelz, Whitmere's been there since the start.
Dominic Lopez
Imagine losing your job over a Family Guy joke.
James Turner
I remembered it wrong. He protested the board two times. >First "Save Disney" campaign (1984) >Second "Save Disney" campaign (2003–05)
What's new direction is Disney taking with the muppets that's seen as neutering it?
Christian Cooper
They're generally just kiddifying further than Henson ever did. Generally, Muppet Babies was as kiddie as Muppets got, and it was explicitly for the kids.
You know how Ghostbusters 2 is often frowned upon because it took more cues from the Real Ghostbusters than the actual first movie? Disney has been doing that to the entire Muppets franchise.
Disney really is one of the most vile corporations out there.
Luis Bailey
So I never saw the new Muppets show but heard it was terrible, what was wrong with it?
Carter Ward
It was unfunny.
Jason Roberts
It made the mistake of using a format the general public had long gotten tired of (Office, 30Rock, Parks&Rec) and it then relied on name dropping celebrities and shitty cameos. The show runner was sacked halfway into the season and whoever was put in charge tried to salvage things by bringing back sketches but it was too late to turn things around as it was bleeding viewers with every episode. It didn't get the chance to grow with a second season, performers didn't get the chance to do improv and were forced to stick to the script. It was cancelled after its first season.
Jaxon Baker
They heard the criticism that the Muppets had been too nice and kidde and took it too far in the opposite direction. So, here, watch your favorite characters behave like neurotic assholes and make a bunch of weird veiled sex jokes.
Christopher Watson
Whatever happened to fucking Clifford? Won't he or any Muppets Tonight exclusive characters come back?
Zachary Turner
-It ripped off 30 Rock/The Office -More importantly, the writers clearly didn't want to use the Muppets, they just had Rizzo and Rad and Pepe the Prawn have all the subplots, because they were two average guys who were television writers like the actual television writers.
Nicholas Lewis
They're actually starting with Rowlf the Dog. The post-credits scene shows Kermit walking into the lounge he's playing at. Screencap this.
Jackson Cruz
It's been a long time coming, but I don't think I'll ever watch a Disney product again. I didn't like how they were treating Star Wars, but that's been a commercial enterprise ever since Lucas saw the first action figure checks coming in.
The Muppets is one of the most pure, friendly pieces of media anywhere. This is Disney buying Mr Rogers Neighborhood and firing Mr Rogers.
Hopefully the Jim Henson Company can pick him up and give him some kind of advisory role. Whitmire is a great guy.
Easton Jackson
>if you look past the Muppets movie by Segal you realize the movie reflects real life but the ending isn't a happy one >the Standard Rich and Famous Contract is up and an evil corporate master takes control of the Muppet Theater and by extension the Muppets themselves >the main character, Kermit the Frog, is sidelined for some new no name bland Muppet with no actual interesting talent or facet to his character >the corporate master owns them now >the magic is gone, the dream is dead >Muppets will never be what the used to be, and will be hollowed out and commercialized like everything else Disney owns
