Will Marvel cancel Holland's contract now that Spider-Man Homecoming is confirmed to be a huge flop?

Will Marvel cancel Holland's contract now that Spider-Man Homecoming is confirmed to be a huge flop?

Stop this meme.
600 million worldwide, even with the rumored cost of advertising, means there was still a HUGE profit. Give it up.

it literally needed to clear 30 trillion the first weekend TO JUST BREAK EVEN

I hope not, it's not HIS fault.

remember when MCUfags said this would gross 1.2 billion

35 trillion at least, Marveldrrooone.

Cape shit movies are just dying

Is not a flop but lets face it, he's the fucking spiderman, I hope this movie makes at very least more than amazing spiderman 2, the last thing I want is another reboot.

This is good news for comics, though.

I think Disney expected at least a billion on GotG2 and SpiderMan

seems a bit hopeful for disney really.

>implying comics will survive the death of cape shit movies

You're obviously not counting the 62.31% of box office that goes straight to RDJ's pocket.

(A) Marvel forced Sony to go with a younger guy, when Sony was, at least initially, wanting to stick with Garfield. However, Holland is UNDER CONTRACT with SONY.

(B) By the same kind of measures that people called BvS a bomb or huge flop, it's WAY more than fair to call SM-H a "huge flop" or comparable. At this stage in it's release, GotGv2 had made $50 million more dollars than SM-H. That means it is unlikely that SM-H will go much over $300M and certainly not as much as GotG made in North America (which matters most to the studios because [a] they are NA headquartered companies, [b] local bragging rights, and most importantly [c] most of the money that the studio makes is from the North American market. They make far less from the foreign distribution, even the very large studios such as WB and Buena Vista (Disney) who have international distributors in the largest markets - however, there is stuff they cannot control even with those foreign shell companies - for example, Russia won't let them take any more than they 'think' is appropriate out and China doesn't even put it that nicely.

(C) Wonder Woman just passed GotG domestically which means SM-H won't even be the second highest grossing film. In fact, given what is still left to release before 2017 ends, SM-H will be lucky to be #5.

Good, i'm sick of them.

>By the same kind of measures that people called BvS a bomb or huge flop, it's WAY more than fair to call SM-H a "huge flop" or comparable.
This is why company wars are retarded. None of them were massive bombs but both underperformed from their expectations. BvS was saved from a very strong opening because after that, it plummeted like a fucking rock. It made about half of its box office on the opening weekend, so while it didn't bomb, it didn't leave a very bright future for the franchise. Fortunately, Wonder Woman regained some good will for it.
Spider-Man seems to be on the opposite side of that. While somewhat underperforming, the good reviews and overall good audience reception leave a very bright future for the sequel to do much better than this one.

Why are you using my comment to try and debate. I never said BvS was a flop, it made it's money; hell I never said Wonder Woman was not going to be the number one movie either, or Spider-Man would be in the top five for that matter. Take your company wars elsewhere. I merely stated the FACT Spider-Man was not a flop.

Idiots who do not understand movie revenue called BvS a flop. The reason the Snyder was let go was not due to profit, but due to how horrible the movie was reviewed and received (worldwide).

Company wars are for cancerous neckbeards who suffer from brand loyalty. Argue and debate about things that matter.

>The reason the Snyder was let go
For someone who cry about people who don't understand things, you aren't very good at facts either it seems.

That is fact. You can believe it was due to 'family reasons' and the PR they put out there all you want. If it helps you sleep at night and keep your little company wars going because epeen size matters, well do it. No one cares.

You do not step down and suddenly have the movie do a shit ton, not the normal amount but A LOT, of reshoots and practically recolor the whole damn thing.

He was let go. It is obvious.

Are you implying that if he wasn't let go he would have stayed on the film when his daughter an hero'd?

>at least initially, wanting to stick with Garfield.
Really?

I thought that Sony was kind of pissed at Garfield because he blew off a meeting or something.

I mean I've got nothing against Holland, I liked him, but I kind of wish that we got older Peter/Garfield too.

Stop

I've never had that confirmed. And some of the Sony emails that float around are fake. I worked on trial prep for a DIFFERENT Sony movie, but because the screen writer for that movie also worked on Raimi's, we ended having to look through a bunch of raw emails we received directly from Sony's servers.

In the initial meetings with Marvel, Amy and the producers of TAMS and some other people discussed keeping Garfield.

Marvel then came back with a story idea and script proposal (not an actual script) that called for a high school and 'pushed' Sony into dumping Andrew and replacing him. Garfield, in Hollywood, had a good reputation for being professional, and doing what the studios want them to do (e.g. press tours, talk shows, cons, etc.)

However, Sony is owned by and corporately run by people raised in Japanese culture so the story about him being rude to the Sony (corporation) CEO from Japan by not meeting with him (because Garfield was sick) has the sense of being true because that's something that might be seen as discourteous and in that respects rude to the big whig.

OTOH, people have done worse shit in Japan and on the Sony lot in Culver City to any number of the execs from Sony Japan and kept their jobs. Sony didn't really think it was Andrew's fault that the TAMS1 and 2 didn't make as much money as they wanted but they supposedly ultimately decided to agree to Marvel's request to recast with a younger guy.

that's why I phrased that with the 'same kind of measures' - and the fact of the matter is that Marvel Studios isn't happy with the gross (Marvel's cut of the profits are diminished by their payouts of the back end to RDJ, for one thing) and Sony is downright upset - it might make a bit more than TAMS but I personally don't think it will due to the poor performance of it's legs (essentially the same thing you noted about BvS).

You're right that a sequel could do better and that's exactly what Marvel is going to say to Sony.

>I merely stated the FACT Spider-Man was not a flop.
I used BvS because it was a perfect example of a movie being profitable and yet being viewed as a flop. I could point to AoU if you prefer but it's not as good an example and many of the same circumstances in BvS are present in SM-H (for example, that Batman/Superman and WW are the big three for DC/WB and that MCU Iron Man and Spider-Man are the big two for Marvel/Disney)

Well fuck.

Keep in mind, this film hasn't opened in China yet.

Not that guy, but when a director has to step down for reasons like that, the film is usually finished by someone from his crew, following his notes. You don't bring in a high profile director like Whedon to do some pick-up shots and post-production. Besides, Whedon had already been working on the film long before they announced Snyder's stepping down. Of course, Snyder's daughter's death might have been what made him just quit the movie alltogether, but he was obviously losing power within the DCEU and was probably gonna be let go after JL. I mean, look at all the movies they announced for the next few years. None of them are Snyder projects and all this lineup didn't just come up after Snyder's daughter died.

>posts facts and asks people to discuss about it
>Bait

Wow! Calm down moviefag! I'm sure that this will not make the movie not stop existing and you will be able to watch it again in the future!

>essentially the same thing you noted about BvS
Yeah, but coming from a flop like ASM2, it's actually peforming better than BvS, and again, it's left people with a positive feeling, unlike BvS so that means more good faith for a sequel.
So even though they're similar in many ways, there are also differences that makes Spider-Man's underperformance a less important thing than BvS's, because there's still a lot of positive things that came from it.

I heard it was pirated as hell there already

one can only hope. worst thing to ever happen to comics and this board. love comics, hate capeshit flicks.

Well, guess that shows why you don't open a blockbuster film in July now, doesn't it.

I almost wonder if Marvel Studios set Sony up for this fall with letting them take a July release.

Isn't this really just because of fucking Dunkirk?

When the movies die, so will the comics.

Nolan strikes again

kek

Marvel, the comics division, it's already dead in my eyes. You can shit on the movies all you want but the matter of fact is that the comics are in a far worse state.

Here's what I've noticed. Most critics and a lot of viewers are fond of Garfield as Peter. He made a strong impression in Civil War, and people did enjoy watching him in Homecoming. People also liked Vulture, although it's hard to tell if he'll return in future films.

Many people, whether they're longtime Spidey fans or MCU fans, seemed to be alienated by the high school setting. I myself have heard a few people state that they "don't wanna see that kiddy shit". Longtime Spidey fans also aren't necessarily fond of how much influence Stark has on Peter's career as a crimefighter. They also, generally, don't like how Uncle Ben got no mention at all.

As far as box office goes, while not the massive success people were hoping it would be, it'll probably outdo Amazing 2, which was around $700 million. That's not a failure, even if it's not spectacular by MCU standards.

Based on all this, I believe that Holland will stick around, but they might minimize the high school influence.

And some people really, really disliked the MJ reveal.

doubtful. i think comics will always be around in some incarnation be that physical or digital.

modern marvel comics are fucking garbage. the only titles i've bothered to read from marvel over the past couple of years are spidey 2099 and the scarlet spider titles. overall i've always been a bigger dc fan. i'm always afraid that marvel's movie success and messages will bleed into dc's printed comics.

I hated the movie because it wasn't a Spider-Man movie. It was the worse adaptation we've gotten yet and that includes the live action 70s show.

>Based on all this, I believe that Holland will stick around, but they might minimize the high school influence.
Personally i loved the highschool scenes BUT im already in College so i don't want to see Peter in school in the next two movies. Why can't they do it like Raimi?

>i'm always afraid that marvel's movie success and messages will bleed into dc's printed comics.
Back when SS opened the team was shortly after to the movie line up.

Prepare your anus for dudebro Aquaman.

I feel that's not as important as you think. Yes, longtime comic fans are pissed, but it's not necessarily a huge issue. She's just a bit character. If she stays that way, no harm no foul. More important than that is who they use as the main villain of the next film, and what kind of conflict it will be. I know Homecoming teased Scorpion, but no way that moron can carry a film. The Gargan from the movie didn't exactly seem mastermind material.

if you combined the domestic and EU earnings for the studio it only totals up to around 141 million dollars. I don't know what the splits are for the other territories, though I do know Hollywood only gets 25% from China. this movie had a 175 million budget, and if you add the promo budget of 140 million, that's 315 million. even if we just assume all the other territories to have an even split like the US and EU, they'd still come up short at only around 286 million dollars from a worldwide gross of 572 million. it needs to make 700 million worldwide to start earning a profit. needs to make more if Sony and Marvel split the profits.

This is another point that gets overlooked too and not in the 'REEEEEEEEE WHY ISN'T SHE A REDHEAD REEEEEE' way.

I know a lot of people who like the actress but they're pissed about the MJ reveal too since they feel like Marvel/Sony wants to get diversity points but they pussed out and didn't make her Mary Jane proper.

>Most critics and a lot of viewers are fond of Garfield as Peter

I'm assuming you meant Holland right?

Well, for starters, despite being almost 20, Holland does not make a convincing adult. Second, I think they wanted Spider-Man to have a sharper contrast with the rest of the MCU.

>it needs to make 700 million worldwide to start earning a profit.
assuming the splits are even which they are not(except EU and US) and not taking into account China(only 25% profit).

Yes. God, we really have been through three Peters.

>I hated the movie because it wasn't a Spider-Man movie.
lolwut

right. the latest issue of tomasi's superman run confirmed this fear of mine. specifically the coexist car sticker page. i was reading preacher user's countdown SOP this weekend and a lot of the shit that is written into that run would never happen now in DC. just sucks to see casual tastes and this era of runaway PC impacting comics.

diversity strikes again!

It hasn't even opened everywhere yet. China and Japan to come

I dug the High School setting and the lower stakes, it made for a different feel in the MCU, most of the humor fell flat though. I really don't get why it gets so much hate around here.

Something that really ticked me was the suit though. Yeah, I get it was made by Tony Stark and it makes sense in-universe to have all kind of functions and gadgets included, but hotdamn I just want a Spider-Man that bounces around, punches people in the face and overcomes adversity by using his smarts not for the suit to do all the work. Having said, after the Vulture reveal the movie was incredible.

>Scott Mendelson
Oh no, the DCFag who blogs on the Forbes server? Is it time for another pointless WW update as well?

One important factor is what villains they plan to use. I think Marvel's gone on record and stated that they won't reuse villains from.past films, but I think this is a mistake. Fact of the matter is that the villains Sony HAS used so far are just too popular and iconic. There are people who are literally waiting with baited to see the MCU incarnations of Osborn, Otto, Venom, etc. And these also happen to be Peter's most personal enemies too.

Mind you, how Sony feels about it is a factor too. The fact that they plan to make a Venom movie without Spider-Man may imply that they're not willing to share.

China will save this movie's ass despite the piracy shit. The Marvel brand is just too popular.

Funny thing I noticed. The first shot of Spider-Man we ever see is him sticking Iron Man's trademark three-point landing while holding Captain America's shield. Think it was on purpose?

Shit wasn't a Spider-Man story at all, nothing about it felt like a Spider-Man story. Sure the characters had the names of characters from the Spider-Man franchise, but /nothing/ was left preserved.

>The fact that they plan to make a Venom movie without Spider-Man may imply that they're not willing to share.
They just want to ape in the renewed interest for the Spider-Man franchise by pitching a movie about the most casual-friendly character they have left, which in fact is Venom. In the mind of those people they are throwing Carnage in ,because everybody likes symbiote joker, for maximum profits and BOOM! you have your very own billion dollar shared universe.
Remember they still get a huge part/all the revenue from the solo movies, so them stopping Marvel from using popular villains would be akin to shooting themselves in the foot.
Now, for the villains themselves they still have Kraven and Mysterio which make for very interesting movies.

>I just want a Spider-Man that bounces around, punches people in the face and overcomes adversity by using his smarts not for the suit to do all the work
You and me buddy, but sadly this new spidey isn't allowed to punch BECAUSE EVERY LITTLE KID LOVES SPIDERMAN AND DISNEY DOESN'T WANT HIM TO BE A BAD INFLUENCE ON THE KIDS. As for the new suit, well the thing is, MCU Spiderman is incredible weak compare to past versions and he needs all the help he can get

You're just being a pathetically dramatic >not muh because Iron Man was mentioned a couple of times.

I don't know...

But I loved the fuck out of that movie.

>MCU Spiderman is incredible weak compare to past versions and he needs all the help he can get
Literally manhandled Winter Soldier in Civil War and incapacitated both him and Falcon, so weak my ass, more like Cap is fucking OP in this universe.

>tfw Spider-Man is going to get Fantastic Four-ed

But they're making a Black Cat/Silver Sable film too. What normie knows about Silver Sable?

>Will Marvel cancel Holland's contract
Are you crazy? did you see everyones reaction in the Comic-Con when Tom appeared in the IW Trailer? Fucking everyone loves him. At this point if Disney takes him out the MCU is over

>DCFag
He gave BvS and SS rotten reviews, and Civil War a fresh one.

I'm just gonna copy paste what I said last time about how this wasn't a Spider-Man story because I don't want to write it again, or put effort since I know you'll just dismiss my points by saying "Hurr duurr, not muh fag"

Spider-Man isn't some goofy kid who spergs out at everything he sees and acts like a moron constantly, throwing himself head over heels over a complete stranger. Teen Spider-Man is a kid who has no friends, and was prematurely thrusted into an adult world. He doesn't really trust or respect most of the other hero community unless they're outcasts like he is. He doesn't rely too heavily on tech because his intelligence shines through when he applies his knowledge of chemistry and physics to the enemies he's trying to defeat. He relentlessly makes fun of his enemies because of his pent up aggression towards his enemies. But most importantly, it's about a normal person who finds himself with amazing powers. Not someone who has amazing powers and has a billionaire supporting him, but someone who is dirt poor and doing the best with what he has. His entire motive is that he let his father figure die from his own actions and feels that if he doesn't become a hero something bad will happen again and we see him grow with actual character development and we see his personality radically shift with the more experience he gets, which is something unheard of in cape comics (Until some asshole decides he doesn't like it and makes Peter sign his marriage over to the fucking devil). I didn't feel like I was watching Spider-Man on the big screen. I felt like I was watching the flanderization of what some shitty Tumblr accounts impersonation. You know the ones, the kind that depicts him as the child of Tony Stark and Steve Rogers?

Plain and simple, this isn't a Spider-Man movie.

Re-read again user.
They are pitching the whole universe with Venom because he the most recognizable character and then obviously branding out with different characters.

And don't pretend Silver Sable is not being paired with the Black Cat which is pretty well known by casuals too.

>manhandled Winter Soldier
nice meme spiderfag, Falcon threw him out a window with redwing and Giant Man knocked his bitch ass out just by touching him with his big hand while falling down.He's weak as shit.
>implying he hasn't been for years.

Why would they?
This is Sony's problem, not Marvel's.
Marvel just wanted to have Spiderman.

The reason Spider-Man flopped by MCU standards is because the brand has been ruined by years of Sony fucking with.

Okay, MAYBE Venom without Spidey could work. They'd just need to get rid of his spider imagery and abilities. So I guess he'd just be a slime tentacle thing?

It kind of is Marvel's problem.

Imagine making a Batman movie but having no access to Joker. Could work, but people WANT Joker. Literally the easiest way to makemoney.

And the release date. Whoever thought it was a good idea to release a fucking Spider-Man movie the week before Apes and two weeks before Dunkirk and Valerian oughta lose their job.

They read on some balance sheet that Spider-Man had higher brand awareness than Apes but never accounted for the fact that Spider-Man reboots are a fucking joke.

> Falcon threw him out a window with redwing
>threw
What about you rewatch the scene faggot? He wasn't thrown he was carried away after being taken by surprise.
>Giant Man
Which took War Machine, Spider-Man and Iron Man together to bring down. You're talking of a character that was throwing trailers without much effort, so yeah anyone would've felt that also he was once again distracted when it happened.

>took a who knows how many pounds trailer over his head and a whole building
He is no Tobey Spider-Man but by no means he's weak in the MCU.

Movie might have done a little better if he didn't sound like a girl.

China will save it. International markets is what matters. They made that Mummy movie for overseas.

It is one of the reasons new Ghostbusters did not do well - couldn't open in China. What kind of dumbass business person would approve that budget without China to back it up,

Except in Spiderman people want Spiderman.

>745m
Hi there sweetie!

Um I'm sorry but weren't you people saying that Homecoming is the movie that has the REAL Spider-Man?

When it got glowing reviews then it's Marvel Studios work, but now that it's not doing too hot it's Sony's fault? Come the fuck on.

Only way they'll fire him is if he disrespects the honor of the almighty Japanese executives like Garfield did.

They want Spider-Man to fight iconic villains. He can't just fight C-listers or other heroes' rogues forever.

>Um
Please, avoid talking like a tumblrina.

Fine, Falcon used red wing to send that loser flying out the window.
>Which took War Machine, Spider-Man and Iron Man together to bring down.
I'm not dissing Giant Man, he's strong, but the point is he kicked Spider-Man's ass without trying.
>by no means weak in the Mcu
user, Cap floored him with one kick. He's a glass web shooter.

He might be contracted with Sony but Holland is the mouse boy and you can be your ass their mafia reaches all the way to anime land.

>Garfield's next movies are about evil Japs

He has never been a proper Spiderman, only people who stuck with 60's comics think so.
Spiderman wasn't worth bringing to the MCU at all.
Let's hope at least they have the decency of killing him in IW so they bring Miles Morales, flops harder, and Spiderman fucks off.

Spiderman has no iconic villains beyond Green Gobling and Venom.

Movie sucked according to all Spider-Man comic fans I've interacted with.

>but the point is he kicked Spider-Man's ass without trying.
Again nigger. He hit Spider-Man while he was distracted, in fact, when fighting against him he couldn't even touch him.
>Cap floored him with one kick
Except he didn't? He thew a fucking trailer on his head to incapacitate him.

This Spider-Man is not weak just inexperienced as fuck.

>going through so much effort to bring a superhero that's now completely irrelevant
Even fucking Antman is more iconic than Spiderman now.
Spiderman only works to sell school bags.

IN EVERY MOVIE EVEN BLACK PANTHER

>China will save it.
reminder Hollywood only gets 25% of the box office revenue from China. GOTG2 made 100 million over there, but Disney only got 25 million in revenue.

that's a little guy

>Spiderman has no iconic villains beyond Green Gobling and Venom.
I'd consider Doctor Octopus pretty iconic.

Spider-Man has this charming motherfucker to fight. If they don't get their asses on getting him on the big screen they deserve to flop.

I was also amazed by hearing the huge cheering he got.

Same for Black Panther.

Yeah but they're probably not going to use him again since they said they're trying to avoid repeating stuff from the earlier movies. I actually wouldn't mind seeing a fresh tack on Doc Ock but I can see why they wouldn't want to do it.

Also this probably means we won't get Jameson, which is well enough because nobody's going to top Simmons.

>I actually wouldn't mind seeing a fresh tack on Doc Ock
Out of all of the already used villains he's the one I'd be okay seeing again. If they do yet another Goblin in this continuity I'm out.

Maybe they'll bump the sequel a year later than planned, and have it take place after Peter has graduated. I'd be more than okay with that.

>Fucking everyone loves him
not everyone. a lot of people, sure, but not everyone.