Stephanie Brown = Worst Batgirl

Barbara and Cassandra wouldn't have given away Batman's secrets during torture

Huntress wore the Cassandra Cain costume first. So she's the worst Batgirl. Plus Huntress got fired on her 1st night out as Batgirl by Batman himself.

Isn't that her thing? She's literally meant to be the worst vigilante period.

Wrong

she wasn't batgirl then

barbara raped her boss.

now who's the worst?

Barbara had pictures of her naked taken by the Joker.


Who's the slut now?

This bait again?

What storyline is this?

They both are.

bruce timm's the killing joke

Huh no reveals here.

Oh wait. We may have what OP was talking about!

Wait NOPE looks like OP is lying.

> Black Mask only found out about the Clocktower because Hush told him it was the Bat Cave.

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I could care less about Batgirl-fan-dick-worshipping, but what's with Sup Forums ordering characters from "best" to "worst" according to their in-universe effectiveness?

Like, doesn't Sup Forums bitch about how making a character TOO competent also makes them boring?

Daily reminder that Cass thinks that sex is evil and she only thirsts for justice.
And Superboy.

> her thirsts shifted to something else at the end.

Nah OP's intial post was bait.While I do enjoy Cassandra more. It isn't about effectiveness more about her character. After that Stephanie is my #2 for those same traits. Barbara is #3 only because she became a better character AFTER being Batgirl.

My fetish girl.

Cassandra is for sexual.

That makes Barbara better

What people like in Cass? I have tried to like her, but she is pretty forgettable.

Dynamic character with propulsive narrative. Makes for great streamlined, art based storytelling.

Plus she ties with the rest of the batfamily in a non-obtrusive way in part thanks to her being the daughter of Shiva.

Shiva is hardly connected to the batfamily, though.

Exactly.

Wasn't Huntress fired for being too hardcore and not for incompetence tho?

Not to mention her tight friendships with Tim and Stephanie.

Huntress had two strikes against her. One was following Bruce somewhere when he told her not too. The other which was the real reason was he told her to hold the line.

Basically when Bruce was doing something Two-Face and Penguin attacked Batman's turf and Huntress just let them take it (Harvey masterminded the entire thing having someone stall Batman long enough so he could take it).

Basically, Huntress just upped and left the line. When Bruce came back he found some of the men who guarded the turf strung up and dead with Two-Face's mark claiming domain over it.

Bruce never forgave her for that and that was a recurring theme throughout No Man's Land for her since. Then at the end she protects the babies of one area from the Joker and almost dies. Only then Bruce gives her a compliment and they bury the hatchet.

But Bruce allowed her to be Batgirl, even though one running around pissed the living fuck out of Barbara. Because he understood the symbol gave hope to the people of Gotham. Just that when Helena did that thing she lost the right to wear it.

When Bruce saw Cass save Jim Gordon from another Two-Face operative (who was Cass's pop David Cain). He basically used the opportunity to fire Helena and with Babs' blessing give the costume to Cass.

Yes/no. Old Cass yes. Especially when she's with Steph and/or Tim. New Cass no.

So, what makes Cass interesting to you is her relationship with Tim and Steph?

I'm sorry, but I never get any satisfying answers from you Cass fans that makes feel like she is an interesting character. I never really liked Steph, but some of her fans made some points about her that made feel that she actually has a personality.

That was an add-on. But if you're asking about why I find Cass an interesting character? It's many reasons. One, for example, is her reason for believing that anyone can change are buried because of what she tells herself each day to herself as well. She was born from two killers and bred to kill. Yet she can change. Use what she was given to be more than just a killer.

Another is the social awkwardness. Yes, she's this fantastic fighter. But talking to people? Maintaining friendships? Meeting people? Watching her struggle to earn these friendships is another.

It didn't take a single issue for her friendship with Stephanie to happen it took seven issues for them to become close friends. Same with Tim. After she became Batgirl, Tim was freaked the fuck out by her and avoided her every chance he could. Until well, they ran into each other on a case. Then that friendship began. Then after all the shit that happened to them both (Stephanie, Bludhaven, Slade juice, and the various shit Tim had to deal with) they were there for each other. Through thick and thin she was there for Tim at the end and him to her.

It's also the challenge that she has. Oh sure she's a great fighter. But let's throw her the curve balls Gotham can give you. Seeing the various shit Gotham threw and seeing how she dealt with that was also fascinating. She unwavered and kept her loyalty to the symbol.

She just worries the Bat-guys are out to hit it and quit it instead of looking for an emotionally invested relationship. Which isnt an entirely unfounded fear when you see how Dick can act.

>Barbara and Cassandra wouldn't have given away Batman's secrets during torture

now why wasn't this in yesterday's ryona thread?

I've sort of had the impression Cassandra either would barely even react to the "torture", or she'd just get nostalgic.

She's X-23 done right.

Modern Cass will get a Clayfacial soon.

Basically this as well.

It's going to be gutting when Clayface turns heel again. It's going to be the most gutting story and I hope Tynion continues down this path because it'll be the most gutting tragic thing we've seen in a Bat book since probably Damian dying.

That's my gripe with this subplot. You know it's coming from the moment it began.
It would be fun if Clayface (and Cass) would remain the only ones loyal to Batman in the end.

technically that makes her the worst Robin.

I'm just curious where this will leave Cass in the end when the heel turn happens. Will it be a moment where Basil has a choice. Save Cass (and the world) or be human? Or just the slow burn game which seems to be the play Tynion is having?

Hopefully she and Cass will get a little team up book with Babs and a decent writer.

It's weird out of the three of them Cass is still the one who is getting off better character moments and progression. I mean Stephanie is too but it's a longer ass game Tynion is playing with her. I think the next one is what October with her?

Still, beats Barbara who seems to be even in a deeper pit of never-ending status quo with no goal of character progression in sight.

Why do I feel that Barbara is currently occupying the niche Steph should be filling, with a few tweaks?

When was the last time Barbara had an arc that didn't have the main or subplot be about her love life? How many love interests has she had since Burnside? Five (seven if we just want to include Dick and Jason)?

>teen pregnancy
still steph

Man, the cover art in her Batgirl run was so good

To be fair she had a near death experience (Cataclysm) and was on the outs with Tim at that time period. The guy she banged was a mistake (pic related) and she did the right thing by giving the baby up for adoption.

All Batgirls had good cover art. Well, until the Burnside era. The last good Batgirl cover was the "Purple Rain" homage variant.

Batman's suppose to be world's greatest detective, can't figure out Steph wasn't actually dead

this makes my peepee feel funny

why am i so sick in the head

Cause War Games made us into torture porn lovers.

Because this is a fetishistic fantasy, not really torture. She's basically posing like a model. You don't see her face turned into a throbbing, bloody mess or her leggins dripping with piss and shit while she sobs and offers to give black mask a blowjob on the condition he lets her live.

You again, asshole.

Go ahead. Post the actual panel where she gives away Batman's secret identity. Post it.

Basically yes.

>Barbara and Cassandra wouldn't have given away Batman's secrets during torture
Ironically, this is why Steph is a better Batgirl than either of them. Cassandra is some serious Mary Sue bullshit.

I still refuse to take that as shipping.

Explain why she's a mary sue.

Hell, if people take that as shipping, then Cass and the ballerina dancer's interactions are also shipping

Also Harper.

Yeah. I'm still worried that Tynion will do that, but I kinda think he won't, even though Harper is his fave.

I don't know why you think she's meant to be the worst. She's meant to be a person whose determination outweighs her training, who is rejected for stupid reasons but continues to try to help people.

OP BTFO.

Does your Steph-hating butt hurt now?

Steph had a whole series with the love interests being way, way down on the plot chain. They were there, but they never took up very much room. In Babs' book, they're the main show constantly.

>even though Harper is his fave
>Harper

He helped co-create Harper, and made her have pretty much the same backstory as himself, except substituting being a superhero for being a comic book writer ridiculously young.

One of my favourite pages from that Batgirl run is Gordon asking the detective if he is aware that Steph might not exactly be legal yet.

That was a great page. But Steph was 19 during that run. So no pedo tecs. :)

>determination
>Quit after a bit of torture

Sure, user. You just put it in the nice way.

How did she quit? She went to Africa and heroed over there. It was the whole point of the Robin/Spoiler Special. And she came back after being tortured almost to death. Try harder, anonhole.

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Stephanie being the worst is part of her charm. There are plenty of talented, skillful Batfamily characters, but Pre-New52 Stephanie was one of the worst, and she knew it. She also had the best sense of humor compared to the other batgirls and her dialogue was always entertaining.

But Orpheus WAS the man on the inside. Black Mask just didn't know that there was also a woman on the inside, and didn't ask.

Besides, Steph also divulged the fact that the clocktower was a secret hideout.

...

Post the panel, OP. Post it.

That was Hush who did that not Stephanie.

And I can post that page too. Something OP can't or should I sat hasn't.

fucking slut, offering her ass for rape, seriously what a whore

Oh, what's THIS? Why it's Steph-- oh wait that's Hush. Hush who's spilling the beans. Oh OP how does it feel to know how wrong you are about Stephanie it's okay?

Poe's law?

Is there a level of BTFO that OP hasn't blown the fuck past?

Ladies and gentlemen boys and girls. Isn't it fun to actually have evidence. You know what OP doesn't have or hasn't even provided? We're all waiting OP but it seems the only one providing any sort of evidence is ME.

Maybe the shills who claimed Wonder Woman would do terribly without exception, but it's a close one.

The funniest thing is this was the easiest ones to get. Why? Because they're in Batgirl Vol. 1. Which kind of reveals who I do favor more, but I'm making a point of proving how much OP is shit.

Your ball OP. Where's the evidence?

Oooh, good call.

Steph and Cass fans shouldn't have to be enemies. DC editorial hates both of them, and us, so if we hate each other, all we're doing is helping the enemy.

I never am, while I favor one in particular more than the other. I still favour all three. It's called legacy for a reason. I honor the past, present, and hope for a future where there's another Batgirl beyond just freaking Barbara.

I love War Games so much.
In fact, I love everything about that era.
From Knight fall to Knight's End
From Contagion to Legacy
From Cataclysm to No Mans Land
From Officer Down and Murderer to Fugitive
From War Games to Under the red Hood
From One Year Later to RIP
From Reborn to Incorporated
All of it was gold!

Why hasn't a single storyline since reached these levels of quality?

You're OP aren't you?

Because those stories used and built upon everything that had been established before as opposed to now where writers are more interested in starting from scratch, rebooting and retooling everything and leaving their own mark

OP seems to hate Stephanie, though. I love them all. My favorite Steph is robin Steph though

And my favorite is Cassandra. I love all three. So-- fuck OP this is now a Batgirls thread. Since OP can't prove shit. Just post Barbara, Cass, Steph, Bette, and hell any gal that ever was Batgirl.

Well, ironically Batman was one of the few who remained most of their past because Incorporated wouldn't make sense otherwise.
But pre-52 Batman had a distinct flavor- though writers like Grant, who focused on the small interactions, or writers like Brubaker, who approached the stories soberly and like a novel, the stories were HUMAN. Batman is supposed to be the most human of superheroes- he should fight illness (Contagion), natural disasterstone (Cataclysm), poverty (No Mans Land)... etc. He's at his best when he can't punch his way out of something.

I think this is were the new 52 went wrong. They approach his stories like movies rather than novels, always having to be bigger and putting Batman in robot suits battling armies and whatnot. Misses the point, if you ask me.

Current batman feels written like the IDEA of batman. He always has the same serious expression and he can't be a normal human anymore.

>When was the last time Barbara had an arc that didn't have the main or subplot be about her love life?
The Entirety of the burnside arc.

Interesting point. Tynion in Tec is building heavily on everything that's come before (a lot of which he helped write, true, but he also has awesome stuff with Rookie from Superheavy, and he's touched on Layman's run with Detective in the Wrath issue. Plus, he's big on trying to set up Steph, Tim, Cass, and Jean-Paul very similarly to the way they were in the 90s.

It all comes down to the mighty dollar and the baffling incompetence at DC. A shared cohesive universe with a history lends itself to telling better stories with richer themes and characterizations, but it's easier to slap a new logo and a fresh coat of number paint on a cover than actually try.