Detective Comics #961 Storytime

"Intelligence" Part Four.

Ghost in the Shell!

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the emo Bruce is so bad

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Next issue:

KNIFE FINGERS.

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Action Comics: Hal Jordan+GLC: JLA:

I'm not sure I like teen Zatanna crushing on Bruce, but I'm definitely enjoying adult Zatanna being portrayed the way she is
I want to give her a hug

Is this how she remembers the >rape?
Hot.

>all this convoluted plot just to do AzBats again but have it be just a suit
Booooo

Like dad, like daughter. Brainwashing Batman runs in the family.

Is Identity Crisis even canon anymore?

This is emo to you? His hair's not covering one eye, he's not wearing makeup or writing poetry...

>here's my reasoning
>you're overthinking it. its actually this more complicated reason

>The old costume when Azrael subbed for Batman in the 90's
I love it. It's like seeing an old friend again.

I like that they modernized it by getting rid of the 90s era abundance of pointless pouches, but the knife fingers still feel a little overkill for me.

I've always kind of wondered what Zatanna would be like if Dini hadn't brought made her a semi-Batcharacter.

DON'T YOU DARE HURT POOR CLAYFACE YOU SHIT.

>From from the saving grace
Editor is blind.

Rookie #1, I miss Gordon as Batcop.

damn, I'm pretty sure the mindwipe panel is a reference to the IdC one, but I just can't find it

>we can't do that. we don't have a chance of winning without him
Tynion is such a fucking hack. Whole page of exposition to explain retarded gimmick. Get him out of this book and get me someone like Tomasi so I can enjoy comfy batfamily.

Yes!

I liked their battle.

Large chunks of it are not, since Tim Drake's parents are BOTH alive.

Why is the gimmick retarded? It seems sensible to me that they'll have to beat Ascalon with more than just power, but they'll have to actually have some kind of conversion through demonstrating that Jean-Paul can live another way.

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These look like prototypes to the Batman Beyond suit. Neat.

I like it, but I'm worried what they have planned.

> It seems sensible to me that they'll have to beat Ascalon with more than just power
It's Batman (who has contingency plans on I'd-fuck-up-JLA-if-I-need-to level available for all occasions)+whole Batfamily+Zatanna. And it's sensible for you that ONLY WAY to solve this situation is the most convoluted shit that requires involving someone who just attacked you, because they don't have a CHANCE of winning without him. This is reddit tier suspension of disbelief.
There are so many ways of bringing Azbat back without going full retard on the way and he actually written the suit as deus ex machina solution to the idiotic problem he himself created few panels before. Seeing Tynion doing this kind of shit over and over again in book that I wanna enjoy boils my fucking piss.

How did Batman have plans to stop OMAC? Because this situation seems pretty similar, if a bit smaller-scale. Plus, Tynion hates Batman, haven't you heard? /sarcasm

Why is Cass so best?

Because the world owes her some love after her upbringing. :)

Nice to see an AzBats suit, but Luke is now implying that Batman is a religion now.

JVP can take a beating.

Philosophy isn't the same as a religion. It's a code of conduct, not a metaphysical treatise. Would you consider the 10 commandments in isolation (just the commandments, not the rest of the Bible) a religion? I don't think so. They are religious symbols, but by themselves, they're just a code of conduct, similar to the 12 step programs or the writings of Confusius.

While I disagree that tynion hated Batman, he does write him as useless support does the family to shine. Shiva bearing him so easily, admiring Cass would beat him, Tim being smarter, etc. Now while I do believe Cass and Shiva would win in a h2h, Bruce has standard gear he carries at all times that puts him over those people. And in this situation he has the helbat, justice buster and waterebwr else and zatanna. Now for story I understand those have to be ignored, but it is weird seeing Bruce consistently weak.

Also power levels in Tec are not consistent. Cass beat 200 ninjas then beat Shiva one on one without getting hit. But against azraels the only hit she got in was behind his back and need the batwoman and herself duo to gain the upper hand. But azraels did nothing in the Los arc

I was being sarcastic when I said Tynion hated Batman. I disagree that he's useless support - but I would agree that he's support, not the main character. Shiva and Cass should be able to beat Batman. It's part of their character concept - they are the best at martial arts. If Batman is better, then what's the point of their characters (now, if you think their characters are already pointless, well then, there you have it.) I don't think Tim is supposed to be smarter than Bruce, just able to see things he can't because he's not as enmeshed in the darkness of Gotham - and the fact that Bruce sees the value in Tim's ideas is proof that he's a great character.

I loathe the Justice Buster and other contingency plans - partly because I loathe the Justice League, and partly because it makes smaller stories impossible. Why does Batman have difficulty making Gotham a better place when he can defeat gods? ugh. Again, I don't think he's weak - I think he's just a supporting character. If he were to win all of the time, he would be the equivalent of a killstealer NPC in an RPG - the point of Tec is the family, and showing why the family is important. If Batman can do everything solo, why have a family?

Azrael got stabbed in League of Shadows due to surprise and overwhelming numbers. Cass wasn't surprised, and is more used to that particular kind of combat.

Plus...it's ninjas and robots. Some things just have to be expected based on what kind of fantastical story is being told.

>, Tynion hates Batman,
this

/sarcasm, user.

Eh. Okay. Note to self: don't include stupid memes in sarcasm.

Oh yeah u completely agree that they are better h2h, I even states that. Because like you said their character is pointless is not. BUT. Bruce has standard gear in his belt like bombs explosives, Sonics, nets, electricity, traps, etc that every writer has him use except Tynion. With those in saying he takes the other two. But tynion purposefully shows him without that. Los mentions several times how Bruce can't win. Why? Has him demolishes by Shiva when in the last a h2h fight would go to her, but it would be closer . It was to prop cassandra. Bruce had his belt he should have done something. And I know how azraels lost in Los but based on Cass showing she should have wrecked him here but she couldn't take him.

Sorry I meant I agree at the start of my post not u agree

I agree that Shiva should beat him, but not in one page and simply by twisting his arm a bit.

Well...Bruce does use a tooth bomb in Rise of the Batmen to escape. And Shiva makes not that Batman has too much equipment to safely let him do anything when she captures him. I think Tynion is walking a fine line with Batman in Tec - I like it, but I can sort of understand why others might not. But I think it's clear that Tynion doesn't hate Bruce at all - he just wants to see Bruce as a father, supporting his family, rather than stealing the show every time.

Azrael was also recovering from the beating he took in Rise of the Batmen in League of Shadows - he hadn't really gotten his groove back. Now he has recovered from the beatings he took in both of those arcs, and he's additionally completely out of control - Cass is fighting the System, not Azrael, so I think that's a difference that makes sense.

Also though, to your point about Batman doing everything solo, that's exactly what Cass and Tim did in their arcs. Cass literally solo beat an army and the greatest martial artist. It was sssooo extreme, it has the same problem you have with Bruce and preoeration. What's the point of everyone else?

Cass beating an army is just fun. Why do you hate fun, user? :)

There's a way to show his "kids" be useful without having him look stupid. I mean come on, it'd Batman. You don't see anyone saying Power Girl is stronger than Superman or Supergirl is faster than Superman or Superboy being smarter.
Tim is not as smart as Bruce, if you want to say he has the potential when he reaches his thirty to reach a godlike intellect no other human will, that's fine. Same with Casssadra, she can have the skill and potential to be the best hand to hand fighter in the world but she's just a kid now so she's not that good yet.
Also, creating a character who's gimmick is "the best at x" is stupid.

Yeah I agree about the fine line. He acknowledges Bruce should do more. He had Shiva wish to fight h8m for real. But it just makes no sense in the story. Cause she demolished him. That's why I hated Los but like this arc. Show characters kicking add without making Bruce look ridiculous. But a tooth bomb is nothing compared to what he traditionally has. I get he's support I like that. Other characters deserve to shine. But the comparisons and low balling is terrible at times. He s beating Shiva and stalemate Cass with his belt.

Why does Bruce look like he's 20 at most here?

Like, I'm all for making DC characters more anime but Bruce is a weird place to start.

Cass should be the best. But overall should lose to Bruce because of his tech and brains. Batman is the jack of all trades. Tynion just writes him as weaker but that doesn't mean other characters shouldn't get their due too.

Oh, it's a flashback. Didn't catch that. NVM.

Cass isn't my fave - I stand up for her, because I think a lot of people have good reasons for loving her, but I do think her concept, while cool, is completely ridiculous, and her series that everyone loves was too nihilistic for me. But you have to acknowledge that her gimmick absolutely is "the best at martial arts." If you don't like that, it's fine, but it's the point of her character concept.

How would you write a Batman family book (in our ideal world, let's call it "Batman Family" ;) ), and have Bruce be a supporting character but not "job"?

Eh. How would you showcase a Cass vs. Shiva fight without having Bruce at a serious disadvantage, though?

Remember how ras took him out? Like that. He outplayed him which is feasible. Or have Shiva beat him in a pure h2h situation where he doesn't have his belt. Just not in one single move. I'm not pandering Batman, I enjoyed this issue and overall think the series is well written, but you must admit, Bruce with his standard gear should take Shiva and when he fought Cass in the pass they stalemated. Tynion wrote him as fodder basically. I love Bruce as support idea, but don't have him join the fight just to lose so that others could surpass him. The loss to Shiva on one move served nothing story wise except shock value. Like and azraels were given plausible reasons why they were taken out. Bruce also with Ras. The extra with Shiva was just to show oh look Batman can't do it but Cass will

Well, for one I wouldn't make Batman a supporting character in his own book. You can make the others shine without making one if them look bad.

Eh. I like a Batman who is awesome, but not the absolute best at everything. Having Shiva beat him every now and then works for me. Tynion also gave us a bit of a handwave by saying Shiva threw their last fight(s), giving Bruce overconfidence.

Welp, you're against the concept. So there's probably not an execution of the concept you'll like.

discreet batsuit improvements. he's going the heavy armor route from the looks of it.

plus obvious tech improvements of course.

I wouldn't have minded him losing, but at least show it as a fight. It was over and done in two seconds. And then he takes it back by having sh8va wish she could fight him for real. I too don't want or need Bruce to win all the time. I don't need Morrison. But some competence would be great. Hes the only one qualified for the league, but there is nothinf awesome about him here. He just gets beat over and over. Even some reviewd commwnt in it. If you've read Batman in the past you must admit his standard gear puts him at their level. If he lost to Cass or Shiva in a fight like that but they showed it close, then I'd be ikay. And I know if you're not a huge Bruce fan then it doesn't really matter, but going back to you're Cass beating an army is just fun comment, if Bruce beat the army yeah it would be awesome and cool to see, but then we are still left with the problem of Cass as in what's the point of the team if these levels stay consisgent.

Well, as I've said before, I HATE the League. So ignoring that is exactly what I would want. It all comes down to what you want to ignore - because you can't include everything, as it's ridiculous for a League Batman to still have problems in Gotham.

I'm a fan of Bruce and Batman - but I want him to be human, not the god of the Justice League. Which is why I hate the League. It makes Batman stories make no sense.

I'm okay with Bruce beating Bane's army in Tom King's I Am Suicide. I just think that Cass beating the army of ninjas here was also fun.

You want consistency in comics? Um. You might need a new hobby, user. Cause it's never coming. I agree that writers shouldn't be lazy, but I have yet to see someone suggest how Tynion SHOULD write Bruce in a way that doesn't just turn Tec into just another Batman Wins Everything book.

Wait I don't understand you're argument. Ignoring league Bruce he's still.more capable with his belt and tactics than tynion gives him credit for. The army busting thing was stupid in my opninon, too much. But if you're okay with that are you saying that you acknowledge that he's written more capable traditionally but don't mind if he's not here? To make him more human? But that should apply to Cass too then, she shouldn't just wreck everything also. Ideally make Bruce a strictlybsupporting character. Take him out of the fights. Cause while I understand the human argument. That doesn't jive with the 200 plus Shiva version of cass. That's not human. That's justice league level of stuff.

As for how he should write Bruce? Support only. Not in fights. How Ras beat him was pwrfect

Yes, I hate the concept of making someone look stupid so others can look good.

But I have to say I don't agree with the league inconsistencies. Bruces villains are mostly intellectual, not physical. They challenge different aspects of him. Bane could be a league threat Rad is and joker and eixdlwr have taken them on too.

>but I have yet to see someone suggest how Tynion SHOULD write Bruce in a way that doesn't just turn Tec into just another Batman Wins Everything book.
It's been said already. Have him lose his belt, prolongue the fight. There's no reason to make Bruce look like a bitch in front of Shiva, she can beat him but don't make it 1 page and have her look roughed up a bit to show that he wasn't just a mook for her.

Nice strawman.

Is that the evil AI robot from BTAS in the top panel?

I'm sure you would not mind seeing Teen Zatana wearing the uniform of Adult Zatana

This guy.

>HARDAC with Bat-Ears

Nice

Actually I take that back. While I do believe his rogues are intellectual and would cause problems for the league one on one because you can't just hit them, in no way are the whole league level threats.

Cass watches Batwoman take all the damage. Only helps when asked. Cass is enjoying this.

Batman doesn't just bring reinforcements, he brings a fucking white mage.

I like that Batwoman is beaten within an inch of her life, and the worst thing that happened to Cass was having her mask ripped off.

What is it with her in this series getting a lot of damage done to her mask yet usually her costume turns out to be okay?

So is Rookie going to be a part of the AzBats suit? If so, I love it.

I came. The glorious suit is back!

No, it's not canon any longer. Dr. Light is just coming back in next month's Deathstroke.

>Isherwood
>Slade
>Dr Light

How can one title hold so many pedophiles

Cause it has Terra the bait?

>Isherwood
>interested in vaginas
He shares the name Isherwood with Christopher Isherwood for a reason, user.

Ooooh so Wally then is the lure for him.

Probably because they want to show her facial expressions so she has to lose the mask each issue.

Same thing happens with Steph. Artists don't like featureless masks.

Gays don't like black men tho

HARDAC!