Watched Homecoming Monday with family. My dad didn't get why the Vulture was so bad or why Spidey didn't just join him

Watched Homecoming Monday with family. My dad didn't get why the Vulture was so bad or why Spidey didn't just join him.

Is this a common thing?

Is he a Trump voter?

Vulture was a pretty sympathetic villain. But it doesn't help that middle-class white families are insecure as fuck.

Either the movie didn't convey that he's selling weapons to murderes properly, your dad wasn't really paying attention, was too dumb to catch it or he's totally cool with it.

well we only saw 1 crime actually be committed with the weapons and it wasn't violent until spiderman interfered so if he wasn't paying attention he might've missed it

We've gone over this.

>My dad didn't get why the Vulture was so bad or why Spidey didn't just join him.

You might want to check if your Dad is secretely a super-criminal.

Yes. Yes it is.
I was surprised why Spidey didn't levae him for good in the end.

It's the fuck you got mine mentality that a lot of people, myself included, have in regards to family.

Simply put Vulture was doing what he had to do in order to keep his family afloat. Didn't matter that what he did got people killed, all that mattered was that the family unit was provided for and his child and wife were safe.

A lot of folks can get behind that mindset, especially if they've ever lived below the poverty line. When the bill pile up and the food's running low sometimes you've got to hustle to keep shit running and keep a roof over your family's head.

>did what he had to do
Why didn't he get another job? He put his family in jeopardy by becoming a crook.

>tfw i dont walk out of films and discuss flaws within the movie with a cool dad

Or his dad is secretly running guns and wants a son to mentor in the family business so the film resonated with him

Because in his mind he might not have had time to find another job, or at least relaibly find one.

The tech was there, it was basically money right in his goddamn face and he obvioulsy knew enough people on the shadier side of the law in order to get his business started.

Why go through months of not working and put your livelihood at risk when all it takes is a forklift some technical know how and a couple of phone calls to start living on easy street?

I believe it is stated in the very beginning of the movie that Vulture invest all his resources in executing exactly this kind of job - collect and work with unknown alien technology. Also he recieved a strong fuck you instead of compensation from guy who sells weaponry. So it could affect his behaviour too.

Kek

Your dad is part of the Sinister Six.

>My dad didn't get why the Vulture was so bad or why Spidey didn't just join him.

Yikes. Is your father a supervillain?

What I don't get is why he didn't sue the city down to scorched earth. He was hired to do the job, he got into hock to do it and then the feds swoop in and take the job away from him.

How wasn't the media all over this? Tony isn't THAT popular.

It's not like he was asking for something unreasonable. Compensate the man for chrissakes.

I don't remember Cagney being so unreasonable.

I can totally understand why your father would think that. He was one of the more relatable villains in the MCU, definitely compared to previous Spider-Man villains.

He never put civilians in danger and he gave Spider-Man a pass or two after saving his daughter's life and his own . Hell, even when he killed his underling like villains love to do, it's played up as an accident.

Litigation takes time, and the city has better lawyers than he could afford to take on.

Once again, why take the hard road when the easy one is right there?

Sometimes it all boils down to convenience.

You underestimate the power and irresponsibility of people who has a strong sense of impunity due to their wealth and influence.

Vulture needed to stop, but honestly I would have been okay with things if he realized he was going too far and just quietly closed up shop.

Like, he could go and get a real job now. A fucking FANTASTIC job. He and his crew are some of the foremost experts on alien tech on the planet, especially in regards to melding it with human tech.

His shit might not compare with the likes of Shield or Hydra, but its clearly leagues above what anyone else is working with.

As Better Call Saul made clear, there is a difference between being a criminal and being a bad person.

Vulture is a criminal, but he is also a good person. That's all there is to it.

OP's father just assumed that good people can't be criminals, or he thinks criminals don't matter. Maybe he just thinks that death rays should be legal, who knows. If he is American I can see why he might be okay with random people on the street being able to slice a house in two.

>Stark transporting all of his gadgets and fucking HULKBUSTER without any escort

This movie falls apart completely at the end, also why was Tony happy when Peter did exactly the same shit as with the ferry and tried to bite more than he could chew.

What if the plane crashed into a building?

Pretty much this. The vulture is honestly barely a villain and I dont see a single dad on earth who wouldnt act like him under the right circumstances. Sure selling weapons is bad but he only really became a murderer when he killed Shocker (which was another crook). Other than that, he was basically just repurposing junk and tried to steal from Scrooge mcduck while giving Spider-man more than one chance to leave him alone and stay alive in the process

I wish my dad was a super criminal instead of a cop.

Because this time it worked.

In case you hadn't noticed, Tony is an 'ends justifies the means' kind of guy. Consequences only matter if you fail.

won't that bring the authorities to question where they got their expertise?

He was selling hotwired alien death rays to muggers and bank robbers, death rays which he barely even understood how they worked. Hence why he was using alien grenades as power source for his own flight rig for eight years. His guys were selling that shit five blocks away from his fucking house, he was definitely putting civilians at risk.

Guns don't kill people, people do.

>becoming a crook
So, what, I sell a pistol I find on the street without a fancy-schmancy BIG BAD SALESMAN OF WEAPONS OFFICIAL MERCHANT OF DEATH license, I'm a crook? That's called scavenging. It's not stealing if the fucker is dead and was trying to kill you anyway.

Really the last time Peter let a criminal go away his uncle died.

>cryingToby.gif

Guns really fucking help. Especially if you send some motherfucker back in time.

If you're particularly savvy in a particular practical field, the government is more than willing to look the other way. Look up Operation Paperclip or any alphabet soup agency's declassified escapades, for that matter.

>white families

>He watches movies with his dad
The only time my dad ever went to see a movie with me was The Incredibles, and I'll cherish that movie forever for it. I'm envious of you, OP.

I´m just saying why peter didn´t let him go. Maybe another hero would have let him do that last job.

>Vulture is a scavenger, feeding off the carcasses of the Chitauri invasion force.

its like pottery

true.
also it might just be a matter of how they will break into the legit side .probably release small products then work their way up to bigger stuff rather than just dump cutting edge tech outtanowhere so they won't get too much attention?

>white families
Blacks and Asians literally spend their entire lives fronting to be on white families' level lmao

we will never get a male villain called the cuckoo

impregnates your wife/girlfriend and you get stuck with raising his kid.

Fuck off.

I never understood why people want to go to the cinema with their father. But than I watched almost every single MCU movie with my mom and half of them in the theatre.

>Mike could totally be a Spider-Man villain if he had some crazy gimmick.

>villain wants to do one last job and then retire for good
>this is the job that the hero finally catches them on

Every time.

>>this is the job that the hero finally catches them on
Realistically he was going to get caught once Tony Stark get mad. The only thing different is that he would have spread the Arc Reactor tech everywhere by the time Tony get to him. The Vulture was never meant to fight the Avengers or the US army for that matter, he doesn't have the resources for a war. Further his family would definitely be in danger once he became an official big time criminal. That was why he was against the big job for so long, that he wasn't going to deal with that risk until it was the last option.

Because they like their dads unlike you?
just because you have issues doesn't mean everyone does

By today society standards, they are basically the same thing

I guess you right. However I don't think watching movies in theatre together is something what good parent need to do obligatory to be a good parent. Especially if kids already are grown ups.

He fucking vaporised a guy and then shrugged it off.

I'm not American though so not really.

As someone studying law, i'll just say you have a lot of faith in the justice of any legal system.

Besides, if the city is superseded by a federal act he can't sue them even if he did have the resources for a court battle. He'd have to sue the federal gov/Stark, and at that level he's doomed to years of litigation before he ever sees a cent back.

>Sup Forumsmblr

Someone made a comment before on YouTube or something regarding the whole conversation between Vulture and Spidey before the rubble falls. The Vulture made some good points about being fucked over by the world and if Spidey was older, he most likely would have let him go about his life. But since he's young and doesn't understand how the world works, he has no sympathy.

To the average adult audience member, I can easily see where he is coming from. It's a dog eat dog world and he himself is not out to kill anyone, he is honestly just like a small time Stark (Vulture)

>the entire world is murica
fuck off, cops are respected in non cucked countries and we don't cry for murders and rapists

While the suburban white people try their hardest to be black

>Sometimes it all boils down to convenience

That doesn't make him sympathetic.

>To the average adult audience member, I can easily see where he is coming from. It's a dog eat dog world and he himself is not out to kill anyone, he is honestly just like a small time Stark (Vulture)
Only Americans think selling death rays to known criminals wouldn't kill anyone.

So your dad is a supervillain too, huh?

Vulture isn't guilty of anything Stark isn't guilty of in spades, and is more polite and nice than him on a purely personal level, so it's hard to hate him in any capacity.

Some people do empathize with murderous thugs. It happens until they or a friend gets thug'd.

If he wasn't in capeshit he would be viewed as a morally challenge hero who must do wrong to save his family.

They're just keeping those death rays for self defense and hunting!

And Stark "redeemed" himself by realizing suddenly "oh wow, those weapons I sold for years were used to kill people, I better keep them all for myself".

Spidey pushed him to actually pursue that last big job, though. He was perfectly happy going after DDC trucks, explicitly because robbing Stark would be too high-profile, and refused Tinkerer's suggestions to upgrade his wings for that big job. Spidey stopped one of those DDC truck heists in the middle of the movie, part of what pushed Toomes to rob the plane.

Not necessarily, but I feel that's what they were going for with the Vulture. The man is a pragmatist who genuinely cares for his family; with his skillset, this is the way he can provide the best life possible for his family.

But he is flawed. You see that he's not just getting by, but living a fairly affluent lifestyle because of his scavenging and weapons dealing. Indeed, he didn't have to go for the plane heist. He's sympathetic, because you can see that he believes his own justifications for his actions, and you can see people like your father being pushed into situations like that in reality, but he's also driven by greed at heart.

That kind was my problem with the movie. I found the vulture very unthreatening. I undestand they tried to make him a sympathetic villain, but maybe he was a little too sympathetic.

Because he was good at it. Because he had too much pride not to work for himself.

Most importantly, he didn't just want his family to get by, he wanted them to live well, as evidenced by their nice big house.

he was sympathetic until the reveal that he was an upper middle class family with a fucking amazing house so he wasn't doing what he did to save his family like he said he was, he was just doing it to keep his family comfortable
that said that might've come from the time gap between the start of the film when they're actual salvagers and later on when Peter gets involved and then he didn't feel like stopping

still hard to sympathise with him though

>His guys were selling that shit five blocks away from his fucking house, he was definitely putting civilians at risk.
He killed the guy for doing that, to be fair. Tom Hardy was only supposed to be selling the weapons, not giving a demonstration.

But that guy was an asshole, so it's OK.

Vulture isn't a murderous thug, though. He's a thief but he doesn't set out to harm people unless they interfere in his work. Not exactly a saint, but better than someone like Carnage or Norman Osborn.

Russian cops are literal bandits. It definetly not Murica.

Well, no. If Spidey was older he would be able to better articulate the problem with Vulture's enterprise, namely that Vulture was turning ordinary criminals into super-criminals and vastly increasing the chance of a catastrophe. How long until a heist goes wrong and a building gets knocked down? The film is too lighthearted to go into it, but imagine if a terrorist or spree killer had got their hands on one of those weapons.

Yeah I mean he could've tried to say that Toomes' weapons could endanger Liz and he'd get right to the point.

>Vulture was turning ordinary criminals into super-criminals and vastly increasing the chance of a catastrophe

Literally this. I feel a huge embarrassment for all those dads who do not seem to understand such an elementary issue.

Don't you believe it. There's always another perfect job.

>selling to murderers
>while tony stark profits off the wanton destruction he and his super powered frat boys caused
>he's only doing this because Stark fucked him in the ass
Yeah, Starks still more of a prick than Vulture. Fuck laying down to die when big Tony runs a train on your life, sell to gangbangers.

>What if the plane crashed into a building?

That would have been Tony's fault.

Vulture ended up being a hypocrite though. He ends up getting rich by selling to criminals, just like Tony got rich by selling weapons to killers.

Weak bait user, weak bait.

>put a 'kill mode' into the suit of a 15 year old

"Mike Kills the Marvel Universe" when?

So in the movie, the vulture and gang have been selling alien tech for years but no one noticed the laser guns until spider-man saw them?

vulture was also the only character with a clear motive-- which is essential for a protagonist-- spider-man was a little less clear-- impress stark, etc.

Calm down. Yes, Tony sold weapons, but he sold them to the American government, at least to strengthen his nation. In the MCU is Stane selling his weapons to terrorists.

This does not redeem Tony, but certainly does not put him on the same level as Volture that literally is arming street criminals that have all intention on using those weapons in the city.

Vulture wasn't a hypocrite. He didn't think what Tony was doing was wrong, in fact his ENTIRE JUSTIFICATION for his actions is that "I'm doing exactly what Tony is doing, and I'm arbitrarily a criminal while he's seen as a legitimate business man". Vulture isnt a hypocrite. He doesn't demonize what Tony does only to do it himself. He disapproves of the world around him being hypocritical in their differing treatment of him and Tony. And then Stark Enterprises colluding with the government via damage control means "they get paid to make their messes then they get paid to clean them up" which only makes him angrier.

Vulture did absolutely nothing wrong if you pardon the things he did that Tony did as well.

lul

Well he is the Norman Osborne analogue in the story.

So you're telling me the writers tried their hardest to paint a white middle class nuclear family as the bad guys and a bunch of innocent brown and black people as the good guys and still managed to fuck it up? Lol.

>white middle class nuclear family
>white
His wife was black user.

So was his main enforcer.

The main hero is a white kid from Queens.

He was bar because he sold weapons to dangerous criminals
But he was sympathetic because he was doing it for his family and not his own greed

Too be fair it was an accident he wanted to use the anti-gravity gun

>"""white"""

Yes

Zemo is best girl though, so it works out.

Well he kept it lowkey.

>But he was sympathetic because he was doing it for his family and not his own greed
He was totally doing it for his own greed, and directly endangering his family in the process. Did he need a $5 million house? Why didn't he just continue doing his job? Don't give me that shit about how the government screwed him over by violating his contract after he'd bought equipment, they're legally required to compensate him for that.

The MCU countries are all failed states. See also: the US government somehow surrendering authority to an international organization and allowing it to nuke New York City because of space bikers that killed less than 150 people.

Move Malekeith to high tier once you find out about the original script and parts cut from the film.

four crimes:
the robbery
The sell
The vaporization of the guy
stealing from the truck