Indie hate

When did you grow out of indie comics? What are your complaints about indie comics and small press?

A lot of them are boring as fuck.

I didn't mind Fun Home, but god was the sequel about her mother terrible.

This is a real shitty set-up for a thread but I gotta say I read that book yesterday and I found it really impressive. Even just technically, the parallelism running throughout made me frequently stop and look back, consider.

It does have this kind of cold artificial air and I understand why it's labelled "tragicomic" because some of the moments in it really feel too perfect to be believed, but it kind of breaks down emotionally at the end so I feel that colder voice works too. And the acknowledgement of the lack of grief shown builds up an honesty. Hardest-hitting panel is probably "He did hurtle into the sea, of course."

Overall, I wish I'd read it earlier.

this, if i want to see a bout boring man i put on the news and misery

Bump

My only complaint is that they take too long to come out, but other than that none. There are plenty of genres and authors to pick from.

Sturgeon's Law
Don't assume it's gonna be good just because the 'hip' kids read it

Never liked them to begin with. A good product needs structure, oversight, discipline. The indie circuit has none of this, and it's why indie "efforts" suck.

Yeah, you can either read a shitty sjw comic or an autobio comic

Here's your (You).

While I disagree with your overall assessment, I do agree that structure, oversight, and discipline are extremely helpful in making a quality product. Unfortunately that's missing from a huge chunk of the big comic book publishers right now. We all know Marvel editors do sweet fuck-all aside from hand down edicts about tying into events or whatever dumb shit they're currently doing. On the other hand, I think part of why DC's enjoyed such high praise lately is they have editors who know what the fuck they're doing.

We should be praising indies, not hating them. Yeah, most are bad but I prefer some variety to just Batman and Superman and Spider-Man etc.

>hating anything absolutely

Their artistic choices seem to be a mere inability to reach any worthy level of craftsmanship, camouflaged as a rebellion against the more mainstream artists.

Picasso painted like this when he was 14.

it's another "people shitting on comics despite having almost no technical knowledge of art, visual storytellingm or writing" threads

hoo boy

>I have absolutely no understanding of art

>Picasso's father painted this and passed his son of as a prodigy

>I can't raise to even the simplest academic standards

Well, I mean it could be that indie comics are 95% the same shit, but done without much tact or technical skill. There are good comics, but they are very samey with all the wannabe punk or alternative culture that really isn't all that interesting because it's not secret or that taboo any more.

>grow out of indie comics?

What kind of question is this? We're just supposed to read capeshit or something?

As for complaints, most indie creators don't commit to their work. There's no discipline or consistency. Part of the reason why Robert Kirkman is so successful is because you could trust his books to be out every month.

>god was the sequel about her mother terrible.

This. It got way too bogged down in psychiatry crap, way different than the literary references in Fun Home which, felt very natural. I think Bechdel's relationship with her mother was just so strained and cold that she had to grasp at convoluted theories for her to make sense of it. Shame it just doesn't make for a good story.

i never grew out of them but just like with cape stuff most of it is kinda boring but everyone now and then you get a gem

I didn't mind Fun Home.

I minded Alison Bechdel getting the opportunity to do something on stage and bypassing her biggest creation to make her autobio into A FUCKING MUSICAL WERE YOUR CHARACTERS NOT GOOD ENOUGH YOU SELLOUT BITCH

Here's Alison.
"My parents were self-absorbed intellectual shitheads who didn't die fast enough for me to forget them."
No one fucking cares. Dykes to Watch Out For was great. Stop telling us about your comparatively boring life and the assholes who were everywhere in it.

Dan Clowes hasn't got discipline
Michael Deforge hasn't got discipline
Chris Ware hasn't got discipline
Peter Bagge Hasn't got discipline
Simon Hansellman (who I don't even like) hasn't got discipline
Anya Davidson hasn't got discipline
Sammy Harkham hasn't got discipline
Adrian Tomine hasn't got disciplne
Robert Crumb etc etc...
....yeah obviously these comics take longer BECAUSE IT'S ONE PERSON MAKING THEM YOU FUCKING CRETINS. Now tell me that a concentrated, personal artistic vision ISN'T better than corporate factory system comics...

ITT--Comics "fans" who cannot be patient

That's all, corporate comics fucks have literally no comeback

"Most are bad"
> Someone who doesn't read independent/small press comics

Where do you go after grow out Indie comics?
Tails get trolled and Kelly?

>I'm a completely stupid cunt: The Post

If you had any fucking nous you'd realise that small press/alternative/independent stuff has much more in common "artistically" with your example...look at Jim Woodring or Robert Crumb or Gary Panter, for example. Accepted by the "art establishment" but total and complete cartoonists, too. In fact I'd say that those three examples are more of an "artist" than ANY contemporary mainstream creator you could name. Your argument is fucking pathetic, please just admit that you shitty modern mainstream capeshit will never be as artistically valid as "personal" work by cartoonists who put their whole fucking BEING into their comics; writing, pencilling, inking, lettering and colouring their work in an overwhelming vision of completely "pure" "art".

This, this, fucking this 100 years this
> I've read maybe three alternative comics in my whole life/I think Image titles are "alternative comics"

I love getting independent comics from Comicket. Especially when they sign it immediately even thought I'm not yet a fan. I sure hope to see the Comickets of America, Singapore and one day Japan.

There's a big difference between an Asian comic convention and and a hipster comic convention in america. All american small press comics are over priced. They're usually crappy screen printed art zines or eight pages of xeroxed doodles.

Indie comics > cape comics

While most indie comics are shit, ALL cape comics are fucking terrible.

t.never been to a small press convention

>ALL cape comics are fucking terrible
and then there's this asshole

Don't deny it. I used to waste my time following blogs and going to these conventions

What, you went from reading small press/alternative/underground stuff to reading capes and genreshit?!!? Either you're baiting or you have no ability to discern interesting comics

Maybe one day you'll see the light. But not right now I bet you use terms like literary comics

Yeah, I use terms like literary comics. And "art" comics, "avant garde" comics etc etc. I've been reading comics since I COULD read, so, say 1983 or thereabouts and I'm pretty confident that I've experienced all that the medium can offer. Cape/corporate comics are totally and utterly creatively fucking bankrupt, prove me otherwise you fucking shill.
Maybe one day you'll see the light.

Really, genuinely feel sorry for 20-and-under year-olds who have the attention span of a fucking gnat.

You know, I've been trying to figure out how Blankets did it. Like 95% of indie comics seem to be about the authors personal life and them whinging about their personal issues and shit, and it's utter tripe. Blankets, on the other hand, is comfy as fuck and a joy to read, but the subject matter is almost exactly the same as these other boring indie comics. So how is Blankets more engaging?

Nice false dichotomy there and missing the point, champ. I didn't say that indie comics couldn't have that, I said that having an editorial process helps with those things. And a lot of those creators you listed shit out a boatload of turds and would greatly benefit from having someone telling them "yeah your ten pages of circle-jerking are ruining the pacing here, you should probably trim it a bit." It's hilarious how autists like you go on and on about MUH ARTISTIC VISION don't see that giving a creator carte blanche to do as they please completely on their own isn't always a good thing. Sometimes it is, and then other times you get shit like the SW prequel trilogy when a creator's surrounded by yes-men.

Show me an equal amount of MS creators who have reached the same "artistic" heights as those I've mentioned. And, uh, tell me that Kim Thompson wasn't the most fucking savage comics editor out there...fucking prick...broaden your fucking horizons, lad.
Blankets is fucking shit. I own it, but it's fucking shit. Goodbye Chunky Rice is a much better telling of the same story

>Now tell me that a concentrated, personal artistic vision ISN'T better than corporate factory system comics...
Robert Crumb whining about how much he hates modern music for three pages isn't necessarily more engaging and enjoyable than any random cape comic. On the whole, artists who aren't bound by their publishers can create some interesting pieces, but you're a fool if you think no publisher ALWAYS means better comics.

I mean jeez, you sound like the Northwest Comix Collective, and they're straight up parody.

But I haven't. In fact, their the only comics I do read

Capeshit is boring

Oh, and for every "turd" the artists I listed "shit out" your TOP TIER MAINSTREAM CREATOR BIG BUXX $$$ has shit out twenty. Seriously any m/s artist on the same level of popularity has many, many more artistic failures than their (approximate) "literary" counterparts.
I don't know what Northwest Comix Collective is, is it a webcomic? What is this "no publisher" nonsense?! Crumb has always had a publisher, only thing that was remotely "self published" was the first coupla issues of Zap. Not sure you know what you're on about. If you think a recycled fight scene with the latest rebooted superhero is more interesting than an old man whinging about hip-hop where you can actually SEE how heart-felt it is, it's bleeding through every fucking mark on the page; well, I suppose it just comes down to taste...but those comics will never be objectively better than a sincere and heartfelt piece of art, that a cartoonist is 100% invested in.
And no, I don't think small press stuff is AUTOMATICALLY better than m/s shit, Gd knows I have some fucking TERRIBLE alt stuff...but at least it's SINCERELY terrible, you know what I mean?! Not just hacked out for a buck--terrible, but utterly invested in what they're doing.

The conveyor belt system will die eventually. The cinema is the best medium for telling superhero stories nowadays.

>genreshit
>?!!?
Oh hey vollsticks

Oh hey Sherlock, masterful detective work there, why isn't your nose buried in the latest Tom King Batman comic?!

It was probably a bit of a cash- in. Fun Home was amazing and got her a lot of recognition, so making a follow-up about her mother seemed like a natural decision. Only she had already said all the really important stuff about her family in Fun Home, so there isn't much left to explore, and the result is a very meandering book that doesn't know where it's going. There's even a bit in the comic itself where she's talking to her publisher about figuring out what the book is actually about.

Is Corto Maltese indie or mainstream?

Seriously the latter Dykes To Watch Out For is a more satisfying comic desu. Got a lot of respect for Bechdel as a creator but I don't think Fun Home was a complete success.

Man go watch a fucking movie, in due comics usually suck cause the artists are either trained poorly as writers, or as cartoonists, but almost never visual storytellers, they don't know how to frame stuff and it's always full of filler pretentious garbage that does nothing to inform the reader on subtext.

And as "personal expression" pieces, they suck too cause they're usually from the perspective of a bunch of entitled rich hipsters with a victim complex with nothing of value to say except a bunch of approval begging from other art kids. Go read some fucking nonfiction novels, educate yourself. Or hell go read some good fiction that actually has enough room to fully develop.

And god, do indie comics love wasting your fucking time before getting to the point, fuck decompression, these niggers need to take a cue from 2000 ad and make shorter shit. No fucking wonder half of them can't deliver stuff on time even with assistants.

Honestly, foreign comics are way better than american indie comics. Hell, even schlock British shit is better cause at least they make the art good instead of some detached minimalist bullshit.

Indie comics aren't fun or entertaining and they're not deep and insightful, they're just noise. Mumble core shit. Sometimes you'll get a good one but they're usually so far up their own ass that they really don't provide anything to any audience except the audience that feels like it's "supposed" to support that shit to "fight the man". Fucking hipsters.

Because I'm not the user you'd be arguing with. I just knew you'd be sperging out in this thread.

Mainstream over there, indie over here.

Since Sup Forums is over here, Corto Maltese is indie on Sup Forums.

I haven't really read the later DtWoF. I tried reading the early stuff, and found it way too idiosyncratic to care about or even comprehend. Maybe if I was living in New York in the 1990s it would be a different story. What time period would you suggest jumping into it?

Joke's on you, I read small press genreshit.

I read this and thought it was really boring. I wasn't really a fan. I don't hate it or anything, I'm moreso just confused as to why it seems to be so popular and well regarded, can someone explain it for me?

I just didn't think it was very good.

The allusions in Fun Home were convenient, but I thought they were pretty entertaining. But memoir comics like Fun Home or Susceptible have boring panel structure.

I like Clowes and Ware because they write in a similar more literary style but their visual storytelling techniques are more effectively engaging, novel and communicative.

I find that I care more about whether someone has something interesting to say. Ware says things in a very interesting way, a revolutionary way at times, but what he's actually saying is rarely thought-provoking or particularly original. Clowes is definitely the full package when he's at the top of his game though.

>Read Megg Mogg and Owl
>Think "This is bad but I can't look away"

Reading MMO was like watching a train wreak. I absolutely loathed the characters. I only kept reading because bad shit kept happening to them. The only character I liked was Owl. He was an ass but he didn't deserve all the shit that happened to him.
That ending where Owl leaves Megg and Mogg high and dry right after calling them out on all their bullshit God that was so satisfying.

Most comics are bad period. Nothing special about indie stuff. People here only even talk about 1% of major press books too.

I think at the core of the two stories, her father is just a more interesting character than her mother.
Her mom just doesn't have anything going for her that's really interesting.

We're not talking about blandmage, dumbass.

Blankets is a universally hated comic, user. But I find 90% of memoirs and biographies to be shit. They're just capeshit of the indie world.

Do not attack people who are not your enemy.

When did people turn on Blankets? Everyone I know who's read it likes it, seems to get a fair amount of retrospective praise as well.

Becoming a contrarian is part of the agreement when you sign up to post on Sup Forums.

This, indie shit reminds me of Tao Lin.

>What are your complaints about indie comics and small press?
They take so fucking long to be ripped. Unless it's from Fanta or is a big success, it doesn't get ripped for years.

I keep telling myself, "this is awesome, I'm going to scan this" but I'm always too lazy to finish the job. Maybe it would help if I knew a bit more about scanning and processing comics but mostly I don't have the patience to sit through scanning so many pages. I even went through the trouble to track down that Resist! comic that Sup Forums was talking about last week but all I've done is scan the cover. (It's also much bigger than I thought, nearly 100 pages which is insane for a free comic)

>Reading MMO was like watching a train wreak. I absolutely loathed the characters. I only kept reading because bad shit kept happening to them. The only character I liked was Owl. He was an ass but he didn't deserve all the shit that happened to him.

That's exactly the point though. None of these characters are really likeable, they pick on Owl who is the only one not totally fucked up because they try to pull anyone doing anything with their lives down to their own level of misery to protect themselves from ever having to change.

I think MMO is the best comic about depression ever written.

Could the welcome to the nhk manga count for best depression comic?

I only like indie superheroes these days
like any alternative take that's not the Big 2/Mignolaverse or Valiantshit
Astro City, Millarverse, COPRA, The Middlemen, Flaming Carrot, Gen13, etc...

Fuck no.