Was the treaty in the comics treated as dumb as it was in this movie? Seriously, some government fuck showing a video of the Hulk fighting a fucking intergalactic army is somehow supposed to make the Avengers look bad? Ultron threatening to throw down a city meteor to wipe out ALL of humanity and its somehow the Avengers' fault? The bitch king of some african shithole complaining that Captain America just stopped terrorists from getting their hands on a chemical weapon when his police force or army didn't do jack fucking shit to stop it?
Please tell me this entire thing was handled better in the comics, because watching this movie made my head hurt with how retarded everybody was about it.
>Ultron threatening to throw down a city meteor to wipe out ALL of humanity and its somehow the Avengers' fault? Ultron existing is the Avengers' fault.
The Avengers blew up a building due to negligence.
So yeah, not their faults at all.
David Jenkins
What a shit thread, OP
Kayden Thompson
How about reading the book you dumbass? SPOILER ALERT: Its overrated causal bait
Dylan Perry
There are no "Sokovia Accords" in the comics. In the comics, nobody blames the Avengers for anything Ultron has done. I could go on but the differences between the comic and the movie universes would take forever to explain and I don't feel like it.
Chase Green
The movie way more tolerable if you think of the world's governments just want to control the Avengers and will jump at any opportunity to push that agenda (like actual politicians do).
Leo Watson
I was sorely disappointed when they didn't make Thunderbolt Ross lose his shit for a second when finding out he can't get to Banner. I mean, it was such an easy nod...
Nolan Richardson
in the comics a super powered human goes nuclear and blows up a school full of kids while filming a reality tv show. this calls for an act that wants to register and unmask every super hero to make them accountable. tony helps push for it, cap doesn't. i recommend reading the spider-man trade paperback of it, it's pretty decent
Daniel Ortiz
The movie focused on characters and built the story around them.
The comic focused on story and bent the characters to fit the story.
Landon Jackson
>Seriously, some government fuck showing a video of the Hulk fighting a fucking intergalactic army is somehow supposed to make the Avengers look bad
While crashing through buildings and undoubtedly killing numerous people
>Ultron threatening to throw down a city meteor to wipe out ALL of humanity and its somehow the Avengers' fault?
The same killer robot that was created by two avengers
>The bitch king of some african shithole complaining that Captain America just stopped terrorists from getting their hands on a chemical weapon when his police force or army didn't do jack fucking shit to stop it?
...by unintentionally releasing a potential untrained human WMD on the population and killing many.
I get your point, that all these actions were justified, but the point of the treaty was not to say "lol fuck the avengers" it was "look you guys need to take accountability for this"
It is their responsibility when they make a mistake to stand accountable for said mistakes, no matter what good they do. Its a pretty base metaphor for law enforcement and military.
Adam Price
>While crashing through buildings and undoubtedly killing numerous people To be fair, the world security council or whatever those Illuminati were would've nuked New York and killed everyone.
Eli Butler
True, but they are government officials and would have surely been held accountable
oh I crack myself up
Adam Morris
only good thing about civil war is the shit involving spider-man
Levi Morgan
>the point of the treaty was not to say "lol fuck the avengers" it was "look you guys need to take accountability for this"
Which doesn't make any sense. Every single member of the Avengers has an open identity and are even willing to show up in court to defend their actions (as BW showed in the ending of WS). The Accords literally wouldn't have changed anything beyond one thing, which is the dictat that the Avengers stand down when ordered to and attack targets when ordered to. Beyond that obviously being open to belief, how can anyone even take that notion seriously when throughout the entire MCU the world government's have been portrayed as painfully incompetent. The Avengers shows the US military choosing to nuke New York fucking City after like 20 minutes of fighting off the Invaders while WS shows us entire governments having been infiltrated by super Nazis.
The greatest weakness of Civil War is that we're supposed to look at the conflict as layers of grey with both sides having good points but ultimately the Accords don't make any sense. The motivation behind them doesn't make sense.
Michael Morales
>Beyond that obviously being open to ABUSE
Grayson Powell
>A guy as big as Hulk, crashing through buildings Survivors?
Grayson Walker
Not a single one
Asher Fisher
Listen I dont want to give you the wrong impression, I dont think the accords were very reasonable, but I dont think its beyond the ability of government bureaucrats to be unreasonable. I thought the argument by OP was "the accords are too stupid to be enacted in something resembling reality" not "the accords are too wacky to exist in such reality"
Jose Brooks
>two avengers Three, actually. Don't forget Wanda joined afterward.
Jordan Bailey
I feel like if you took away the whole treaty thing the movie could have actually kept going just fine and the villain would have achieved the same effect on the Avengers anyway.
Samuel Baker
did wanda have a hand in creating ultron too? I dont quite remember.
Luke Cook
>. Its a pretty base metaphor for the military. Ftfy
Brody Torres
I think it was Vision not Ultron
Charles Campbell
The dynamic is different in the comics because in the comics secret identities are a thing and the avengers weren't originally some special ops initiative that later went private, but rather they were private from day one.
Noah Jenkins
didn't they used to explain in the comics that banner has just enough subconscious control over the hulk that despite his famous rampages, casualties are actually rare.
Jose Stewart
It was WORSE in the comics. The comics were all written by different writers trying to make their team "win" so it practically became a political cartoon with whoever was in charge for a particular week writing their guy as jesus and the other guy as hitler. At least the movie contained it to a mostly personal fight with some collateral damage, as opposed to GLOBAL WAR POLICE STATE for no reason but making everyone fight everyone.
Julian Sullivan
She's the one that originally warped Stark's mind into desperation knowing full well he would do something foolish, not to mention actively conspired with Ultron in spite of what he was doing being obviously harmful to innocents.
Arguably, she has more to do with the devastation Ultron brought on than Stark or Bannner themselves. All they did was make an oopsie.
Oh, and speaking of Banner, she unleashed the Hulk on a civilian population. Can't forget that shit.
Nicholas Sullivan
I felt Spiderman was the weakness of the film. He sucked alot of emotional weight out of the film, which it then had to work to regain in the Tony/Steve bust-up in the third act.
Jason Ortiz
...
Dylan Torres
>disguising a Cap vs Stark LARP as criticism of the movie
Well played
Ryder Martinez
>Team full of superhumans stops the end of the world >Literally the only method the UN has for stopping the Avengers is... the Avengers themselves, they have no means of fighting metahumans >Let's anger these literal gods
People in the Marvel-verse sure are fuckin dumb
Ayden Adams
did Bucky have a chance at a fair trial? he killed politicians and maybe a lot of other important people for over 70 years and the mind control plead wouldn't fly unless you got a death squad soldier to decrypt files regarding mind control if they even exist at all.
Cooper Cooper
If there were superheroes in real life, people would be guaranteed to try to enforce a similar treaty on them. It wouldn't even be up for discussion.
Lincoln Powell
>If there were superheroes in real life, people would be guaranteed to try to enforce a similar treaty on them. It wouldn't even be up for discussion.
Which is kind of the problem of the movie, and I say this as someone who really liked it.
If the movie wants to look at the "real stakes" of these characters, then Iron Man is 100% right. You can't have an autonomous conglomeration of people wandering around the world beholden to nobody solving problems with no oversight, at some point one of the crazier nation-states is going to lose their shit and start World War III over it or the Avengers would get their throats slit in their sleep by some government shadow company. Human society simply couldn't function in a world where the Avengers exist with no oversight.
The only way Cap is "right" is a world where half the government was a secret snake death science cult and this was exposed to the world. The "ideological battle" of the movie only functions in a comic book universe, if you try and transplant it into the real world it makes Cap into an insane libertarian fruitcake.
Luis Evans
Tony Stark was right.
Liam Fisher
If there were superheroes in real life they would either be elite black-ops assassins you never heard of or they would be outlaws. Almost no in-between. They sure as fuck wouldn't have anything to do with international law or the UN.
Bentley Bell
>half the government was a secret snake death science cult and this was exposed to the world So the trump administration minus the science?
Nathaniel Fisher
>Hulk is an Avenger. Then hold Hulk accountable for what he does, be it purposefully or inadvertently.
>The Avengers created Ultron. What your creation does is not your fault. It'd be like blaming Hitlers parents for making one of the most homicidal people in the history of the world. "This is all YOUR fault Mr. and Mrs. Hitler. Your son killed 6 million Jews, and because you created him, you are at fault."
>The Avengers blew up a building due to negligence. The Avengers blew up a building because of collateral damage. Cap: Hold up guys, Cross-Bones and his crew just stole an incredibly deadly virus, but if we fight them we'll blow up a building, killing a few people, and injuring more. If we just let them have the incredibly deadly virus, then let them kill hundred of thousands of people later, it'll TOTALLY NOT BE OUR FAULT.
Evan Sanders
Marvel civies are always dumb. Like real life
Elijah Richardson
That's still not her fault. Unleashing Hulk sure as fuck is, but Ultron was all Tony's idea given enough fear. All she did was give him visions. She didn't give him the blueprints or tell him to use a fucking alien device that he still didn't understand, and she didn't make him not trust anyone except Banner over it. That's all Tony already.
You're right on the aiding Ultron and Hulk part, but Ultron's inception was ENTIRELY Tony's fucking idea.
Joseph Morris
>Was the treaty in the comics treated as dumb as it was in this movie? It was treated worst.
Cooper Allen
His approach was pragmatic, though it would lead to the only active Avengers being Widow, Rhodey, Falcon, and Cap.
Brody Collins
isn't a common thing for police movies (especially if the protags are the shoot first, shoot some more then if someone's still alive, ask them something) the chief is giving the protags grief because they tore up downtown just to apprehend a purse snatcher (civil suits).
basically that but for the avengers.
Connor Long
>While crashing through buildings and undoubtedly killing numerous people
Jesus Christ, does anyone even remember the Avengers movie? Not agreeing with OP here, but that's a dumb point, by the time Hulk started his rampage that area of the city was evacuated. They have multiple, specific scenes about forcing the chitauris in a perimeter around the Stark tower and helping civilians escape, but somehow there's still people convinced the Avengers were leveling buildings full of people
Noah Martin
They retconned it to mass deaths for dramatic effect.
Brody Scott
Vision literally spelled it out for you, you dumb fuck.
Alexander Roberts
Not really, CW mentioned 78 casualties, anons never stopped bitching that it should've been thousands
Camden Thompson
oh wow, this applies to both the movie AND a book
Brayden Fisher
Sure but Wanda clearly saw that Tony was going to do something drastic with the scepter, which is why she let him take it at from the base.
Hudson Carter
> Ultron threatening to throw down a city meteor to wipe out ALL of humanity and its somehow the Avengers' fault
actually dumbass, it appears you don't remember the avengers movie, because in the NY fight hulk starts smashing up buildings at around 1:52:00 and the line about the evacuation doesnt happen until after.
I mean JESUS CHRIST you idiot amiright? heres an actual screenshot of Hulk smashing through a building full of people. Theres more like it, too.
maybe before you start taking condescending tones you should, I dunno, get your facts straight ;)
Hudson Wright
There's a deleted scene where Pietro questions her hesitance to take revenge on Stark.
She's full of this bottled up anger but is actually very conflicted, she's unwilling to kill so lashes out at Tony via his fear. She induces fear when she attacks the Avengers because Wanda herself is very afraid.
There's a part of her arguing for reason, but her anger gets the better of her.
Tony makes Ultron out of fear of losing his only family, the Avengers, and a desperate need to control that fear.
Later in the movie she even shows empathy towards Stark when she says he "is trying to make things right", it's a small but significant shift.
Isaac Parker
The scene shows all the people getting out of the way, and Hulk was passing by to get to the giant whale-spaceship and move it the opposite way before it could hit the building in question, pic related, he was saving people not killing them
Jace Peterson
>The scene shows all the people getting out of the way
But what doesnt it show? Hulk doesnt just magically transport from building to building, plus, theres no telling if hulk pushed aside entire office desks that were like gnats to him but slammed into people.
Not to mention, when tony has the alien whale things attention and its following him, he doesnt immediately lead it out of the city.
Im not just criticizing the Avengers for the sake of pointing out flaws, Im just saying why its reasonable for them to have some sort of oversight through the government (which is supposed to answer to the people)
