How strong is Ghost Rider in setting?

How strong is Ghost Rider in setting?

Like does he get as ridiculously OP as say, Hulk or is he more of a street level "hero"

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Depends on the Ghost Rider. The average Ghost Rider are just Luke Cages with fire powers and a supernatural vehicle.

Johnny Blaze however is not your average Ghost Rider. Nor is he really a Ghost Rider. Johnny Blaze is the host of a superdemon named Zarathos. His limits and potential are significantly different from that of an average Ghost Rider. In his default state, he is just a Luke Cage with fire powers and a supernatural vehicle. When Zarathos takes over, he is Thor and Hulk tier.

he has some absolutely insane almost asspull levels of power

Danny Ketch pulls some kinda crazy shit in his 90s series.

Ghost Rider is probably Spectre levels of scary, only not reality bending of course

>. Nor is he really a Ghost Rider. Johnny Blaze is the host of a superdemon named Zarathos.
I thought that's what makes someone a Ghost Rider

Nope. Just as Robbie Reyes

How strong is the Nic Cage ghost rider?

robbie isn't even a spirit of vengeance

he's not even a real ghost rider

Johnny Blaze and Robbie Reyes are both fake Ghost Riders with Ghost Rider powers. Differences between them and other Ghost Riders is their power source. Johnny Blaze have Zarathos the superdemon and Robbie Reyes have his dead uncle. Robbie Reyes' limits are that of an average Ghost Rider and lacks the potential and raw power of Johnny Blaze and Zarathos.

he made Galactus retreat

ok bud who hasn't

But doesn't that only leave Dan Ketch, who I thought was the successor to Johnny Blaze the original Ghost Rider? I knew Robbie was not a real Ghost Rider but I thought Dan Ketch was possessed by the demon too, making him a Ghost Rider

The safety's off Reed

Demons hate him, so do ghosts, undead, and all manner of unholy dirt bags.

>Demons hate him

Does he show up on demon porn ads? One easy trick?

Dan Ketch is a legit Ghost Rider.

depends on if you're justified or not.

Power level varies and it depends on which Ghost Rider. Dan tried to Pennace Stare Venom once and NOPE'd hard.

Which means what?

...

World War Hulk was so stupid.

Magic people tend to have no real measurable capability. They can be stupidly powerful on paper but still job to normal street level muggles.

They also mentioned in WWH that if the host isn't there to put the breaks on the angel, then Zarathose was as or more powerful than world breaker hulk. And I say angel because Zarathose was an angel of vengeance that got corrupted by hell.

And the lord said, vengeance is mine.

Not that guy.

But what I think he means, and I absolutely agree with that, is that the
Ketch Rider - the original from the 90's and not the terrible Aaron retcon, was an
actual demon, a spirit of vengeance, not some guy having supernatural powers.

I think that's the main reason why all Ghost Rider titles since 2001 felt
so weak and flopped so hard. Readers wanted the demon back. not x guys dealing
with their curse/superpowers.

This is still confusing though, why is Ketch a demon but Johnny isn't

It was the last time Marvel tried to put out something decent before giving up and rebooting the universe to tie everything to the movies.

Sauce??

Blaze made a deal with the devil who bonded the demon Zarathos to his soul.

Danny touched a mystical motorcycle on a junkyard becoming the "new" Spirit of Vengeance.

So in a way they're both possessed only Blaze can keep his (malevolent) demon in check most of the time, while whenever innocent blood was spilled or innocents were in danger. danny's (benevolent) demon would take over completely.

But if Blaze came first, what makes him a false Ghost Rider? I always assumed being bonded to Zarathos is what made one the Ghost Rider

Johnny and Danny are brothers with a cursed bloodline, Johnny would have been the host for noble kale (90s ghost rider) but his mom took Johnny and ran. Leaving Barbara and Danny with Francis Ketch. Well thanks to Namoi (Dan and John's mom) the curse skipped Johnny , but he was still possessed by Zarathos .

Well technically pic related.

But the whole vengeance thing came with the Ketch Rider.
Before that the Ghost Rider was just a supernatural antihero with no real agenda.
Basically Blaze got the looks but not the legend.

These days it's all mashed together and retconned with no demons but angels and whatnot anyways.
I'm not even sure Marvel could fix this mess even if they wanted so the Ghost Rider is whatever you want him to be right now.

Man I miss these X-Men tier plotlines. I miss good editors.

>World War Hulk
>Goes on a COMPLETE RAMPAGE, literally stomping a fucking mudhole into Black Bolt(Yes, it was a skrull, but no one knew at the time) and threatening to smash the planet if he doesn't get the heroes who sent him into space.
>Has even went on previous rampages before where Hulk's destruction has hurt innocents, which is the reason why he was sent to space in the first place

So what does the Spirit of Vengeance think about the Hulk at this point?

>Nah man, you cool, you aight. Go get them fools.

I mean, that's a bit lenient but okay then...

im pretty sure in that run Johnny was after the actual Satan so i guess GR just set up priorities

Ketch Rider is the True Rider because of his heritage of Noble Kale bloodline. Noble Kale is what makes a Ghost Rider, because Noble Kale is a true Spirit of Vengeance. Noble Kale is cursed to bond to the first born, but because Johnny was already soul bound to Zarathos, it skipped to Barbara, since she was next in line. But she died the night the medallion showed up, so then it sought out Danny.

Danny was then hunted by everyone, Johnny included, thinking he was bound to Zarathos, because when Blaze was the Rider it would take over him and be a dick. When Kale took over Danny, he wouldn't remember much other than he knew he was helping and had a bit of a power kick, iirc. Ketch Rider couldn't really come out unless innocent blood was spilt, because if it was a guilty party, they might deserve whatever's coming to them. And when he first started out, Kale didn't really know who he was really, he too just knew he had to help the innocent, and thus as the series went on he'd be more powerful as he regained memories of being a SoV.

Me too

how strong would Ghost Rider be if he was chosen by the Yellow Lantern core

Whatever happened to all the behind the scene guys, like Zarathos and Noble Kale, anyways?

I was always hoping they would pop up in Peter David's Hell War that he had been building up little by little over the years but that fizzled out in X-Factor.

I have this comic, is it worth anything?

>Goes on a COMPLETE RAMPAGE, literally stomping a fucking mudhole into Black Bolt
To be fair, Black Bolt was probably kind of a jerk already, and the rest... hat was after civil war.
>Has even went on previous rampages before where Hulk's destruction has hurt innocents
Gonna need citation, but maybe it counts that he beat the crap out of the X-Men possibly before bumping into the Rider.

I bought just recently for $8

Meh, 90s mediocrity

>Nope.jpg

...

the page when they rough up an Ultron in the backalley was a work of genius

>core

Has someone storytime Edge of the venomverse: Ghost Rider??

It sucked user. Terrible art, terrible coloring, instead of venom and rr being cool with each other like venom/x23 or venom/Gwen, it bonds more with Eli and takes Robbie out of the equation. The only good thing about that comic is the cover

The Angel retcon was Daniel Way. Aaron came on the book after.

agree. The lack of Robbie fucking sucked. Robbie is literally one of the most interesting characters in Marvel and they keep fucking him.

Venomverse was all about Eli.

>it bonds more with Eli and takes Robbie out of the equation
damn, Robbie can't catch a break

>The only good thing about that comic is the cover

that cover is sick af tho

I think he's talking about the whole angel of death thing

Wow, Ghost Rider lore is dumb.

That ending fight between Hulk and Sentry man
You could tell just by reading it that the writers had no fucking clue how to end the arc
Sentry was in the top 1% of Marvel in terms of power levels. I mean, 1,000,000 exploding suns. C'mon.
Now I know that the madder Hulk gets, the stronger he gets so theoretically he has unlimited strength but c'mon. On Hulk's best and angriest day, he shouldn't have been able to even touch Sentry.
But it was Hulk's arc and they couldn't have him get BTFO by the trump card so they just threw their hands up in the air and went 'Fuck it, stalemate them.'

Ghost Rider power levels have always fluctuated wildly. Johnny Blaze was at one point Worldbreaker Hulk level and Danny Ketch absorbed multiple Spirits of Vengeance to become strong enough to force his way into heaven.

Didn't Robbie and Eli eat Zarathos' soul in Ghost Racers?

Naw, made sense. Ghost Rider doesn't go afer innocents, and Hulk was innocent. He was pretty much used as a weapon prior to being shot into space and the Illuminati was like "Lol fuck you". The rocket they built killed his wife. The Hulk just wanted justice.

youtube.com/watch?v=Hx8ob0BAkOs

>powns

The strongester

Who would win in a fight between Ghost Rider and the Spectre?

>specter powered by god
>Ghost-rider power by the devil
come on buddy, is it really a match?

neither of them could beat up my dad

>Ghost Rider using Penance Stare on Galactus
Wait, is this a thing? Was that a thing? Did that actually happen? Was it written? I've never heard about this before

I remember watching this when it first aired, I never geeked out so much.

GR and Johnny were hunting down Satan throughout the country, when Johnny decided to make a detour in NYC for Hulk which annoyed GR because he realized Hulk is not as important as Satan

Aaron's Ghost Rider run is lowkey one of the great Marvel runs in the last decade.

Hell, Way's part in that wasn't too bad either IIRC

>The sun does not ride in hell, goddess
>Your wiles won't work on me, succubus
>The darkness in your soul disgusts me
>Long have you played with fire, boy, but now you are playing with hellfire

Is there anyone that the rider doesn't BTFO in UMvC3?

depends on whose writing him, but usually his power depends on who's in control the human host, or the spirit

In that same event, didn't someone mention that Banner's superbrain works in the background when he's the Hulk, making it so that all his rampages never actually kill anyone?

Ghost Rider is one of the most inconsistent characters in Marvel in terms of power level. Sometimes he's WWH strong, sometimes he can even tussle with Mephisto. Then he'll job to Punisher or Deadpool.

Isn't Penance Stare inconsistent? Shit didn't work on Punisher because "lol I don't regret what I do"

That was just shit writing

Yup

>Then he'll job to Punisher or Deadpool.
As an side, I like that there is a subtle difference between the two. They're murderers, but Wade regrets the shit he does while Frank is a legit psychopath.

*aside

wasn't the reasoning that Frank didn't feel guilt for the people he killed?

No, that was Zadkiel who was serving as Arcade's enforcer.

What's stronger, the Penance Stare or the Indigo Light of Compassion?

Penance stare is inconsistent, most of the time it's about the pain you caused, guilt hadnothing to do with it.

that's unironically fucking awesome

that doesn't make any sense anyway, penance stare being about guilt would make it a useless power on most people that it would need to work on

In WWH it is hinted that he could go 1 on 1 with hulk iirc

Ah, little correction here, most of the time is about how much pain you caused to the INNOCENT.
Meaning that Frank did nothing wrong. All the people that he Franked deserved it.

That explanation would have made a lot more sense than the shit the comic put out.

It only worked because Galactus was the weakest he's ever been. It nearly killed him.

With the exception of Robbie and the original Phantom Rider, all the Ghost Riders are\channel the Wrath of God on Earth.

Johnny ALSO was\is fused with a demon.
Danny ALSO was fused with... somebody, I don't remember.

They are all as powerful as plot requires.

Indigo light is pretty weaksauce in its own series. And the Assassin pill version do exist.
But then again, its only weaksauce because its competing with Aspects that is fully developed.

>Teenage boy with a cute red head love interest gets a sick all black suit with a jagged white decal on the front and a voice in his head urges him to be more and more violent in his war on criminals

The absolute worst part of the Ghost Rider venomverse issue was them missing the blatant parallels and doing nothing with them.

Sucks how much Frank gets shit for not falling to the Penance Stare. I admit that's shitty writing, but people often speak as if The Punisher was the originator of that bs.

I'm looking to read more Ghost Rider and Marvel horror-supernatural shit in general. What are some recommended readings?

...

You seem to be forgetting that Ghost Riders are basically Heaven's super weapons now; and also the Penance Stare, which can make you feel all the damage you ever caused in one instant. I mean, shit, Darkseid and Thanos will get OHKO'd by that; and Galactus got OHKO'd by it in the old cartoon.

>inb4 Punisher

Fuck you, that's not how it works.

which isn't how it's supposed to work.
And even if he didn't regret killing gangsters, how about "going to the park?" I bet your kid wanted an ice cream and you said you'd get it after the merry go round so he didn't throw up. But if you stopped for the ice cream, he'd be alive.
How about that, Frank? Do you regret not fucking buying an ice cream cone? Because that regret is literally your ONLY characterization you've ever had.

To be fair, Deacon was powered by angels.

Here. Road to Damnation and Trail of Tears have some of the best art, that isn't drawn by Ross, that I've ever seen.

Only time I know of it happening was in the 90's FF cartoon.

Penance Stare isn't supposed to work on Abstracts like Galactus. He does what he does because he has, for is he not the Galactus? How can be a storm being accused of murder? How can a lion be incriminated for eating to survive?

Depending on the writer, it might not work on Darkseid for the same reasons(which would imply various degrees of lack of free will for Darkseid, which in turn would be interesting)

On Thanos it SHOULD work as Thanos is nothing if not a creature of free will and all the blood he shed is upon himself... except Thanos probably has defences against such things.

>To be fair, Deacon was powered by angels.
Frank, too.
I don't remember if it was shown before or after, that he still has some angelic influence\power\protection(a memento from his golem days)

I'm almost afraid to ask how GR 2099 fits into all this.

I'm just going to assume that it doesn't.

That is one gumpy lookin motherfucker