Implying Superman would stand a chance against Kaioken SSB

>Implying Superman would stand a chance against Kaioken SSB

I know this is bait, but I agree. But I don't even think that Superman does anything past SS God

The biggest flaw with these "Goku vs Superman" debates is people never specify which version of Superman Goku is fighting. There is only one Goku but multiple Supermans.

Pre or post Crisis Superman? New 52 Superman? DCEU Superman?

by pure strength goku would defeat all probably
by pure plot armor silver age supes would destroy any character
that is the only argument

SSB Vegeta failed to lift 1,000 tons. The only thing Goku does better than Superman, is die.

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Well, if supes can handicap gokus ki use, goku becomes worthless.

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Or turn his brain to ash. But, let the "Why Superman is astronomically better than Goku" montage continue.

Superman's in a whole other league compared to the main DB characters. If Clark was in the DB Universe he would be hakaishin-tier at least.

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I was going for the no kill rule, but ok.

Hakai probably wouldnt work on him too, because Omegabeams dont either

>but he didn't lift-
Yes, he did. Read the comic. The place they picked it up, an the place they let it go, FOUR PAGES LATER, were different parts of the library. Superman moved the infinite book.

poor apoks, never got to be supermans bane.

Omega beams don't work because Darksied is a fucking joke, reminder he got Mugged and got hurt from falling down the stairs

Gokufags just tap out. Your boy lost. Twice.

Don't forget Ultraman was carrying it around later and Ultraman is literally just evil Superman.

And let's round it off with creative and tactical power use, leagues beyond Goku's power of punchgood. And this one
is the only one that might not be Post-Crisis/modern Superman (they're the same guy) and since he re-merged with Superbro his feats all count as well, so you "what version" idiots can go eat a bag of dicks, thanks.

I don't get why Vegeta couldn't do it, this looks way heavier than 1,000 Tons. Especially on King Kais planet

Well, his hands were outside the shield. Superman's however were INSIDE, meaning it's also a feat for resisting infinite gravity, aka infinite force.

hey. it happens to all of us, cut the guy some slack.

I don't either, but they could have written literally any number, and that's what they went with.

Also it defiantly is more than 40 tons because he already surpassed that.

There's also the boulder Roshi has Goku push in DB, which is definitely several hundred tons.
Shouldn't Vegeta be much stronger than Goku was back then?

Yeah, but he loves earth couches just as much as beerus loves earths food.

>b-but hakai would still work, r-right?
FTFY

Only by transforming. Why do they make saiyans so weak when they can write any number they want?

But I never claimed that, hell Goku wouldn't even use it because he's a dumbass

>definitely several hundred tons
Says who? You can't say how big it was because it's a 2D image of an irregular object, and you have no idea what it was made of. Besides, pushing/dragging something is a lot easier than lifting it. I can drag my fridge away from the wall if I drop something, that doesn't mean I can bench press it.

Here. End of story.

I don't know why they make them seem so weak, in Super it's confirmed Goku is apart of the 2nd Weakest universe out of 12.

Ignoring that the Super manga isn't canon, Vegeta didn't use SSB against Magetta.

y'all niggas forgetting about combat training

gokus practiced martial arts since child while supes almost never has to even bother with that kinda stuff

if anyones power is "punchgood", its superman

>while supes almost never has to even bother with that kinda stuff
Are you retarded? He learned all sorts of martial arts from Bruce and Diana.

you're right. goku would lose to superman because superman can lobotomize people

but then piccolo would magically materialize kryptonite in superman's brain. (yes, magical materialization is a thing)

the end.

bwt that's how shadowcat could defeat the hulk. just go intangible and then become tangible again with a knife in his brain stem. maybe even nightcrawler could beat goku and hulk like that as well

Not canon

Readnigger.jpg
Superman has more actual experience in combat. Setting aside he's using his powers in real life or death situations far more often (his life and others), remember that time Superman spent a thousand year fighting demons in Valhalla with Wonder Woman and Thor? Pepperidge Farm remembers. Who gives a shit if Goku spends more time training if Superman has spent more time actually fighting? Not only is he more experienced, he's trained in more fighting styles than Goku a well.

Goku
>kung fu basics, kame enin ryu
Superman
>boxing fro Wildcat, wrestling from Wonder Woman, torquasm-rao, torquasm-vo, pressure points from Batman

Fuck, even in martial arts Goku can't seem to get ahead. And that doesn't address the fact that a difference in fighting skill mean dick when the other guy is beyond your ability to catch or harm. A fucking ant can know every fighting style ever invented, that's not going to keep me from stepping on it.

This isn't simply a difference in fighting skills or measurable ki output. Superman is a magician that pulls tricks out of his ass, Goku can't compete with that.

Reminder.

She tried, didn't work

Since when did the Dragon balls allowed you to kill someone?

He was taken by surprise.

So even the Flash could beat Goku.

when. and did she try to phase something in his brain stem?

With these babies

>hit him so hard he needed pants

Are you telling me Batman could beat Goku?

I never really paid attention when Super Dragon balls came into play. Are they just like a Rule Free wish kind of dragon balls?

Frank West could be the whole Marvel Universe. You're also saying that as thought Flash is not impressive. You're also saying that as though Goku hasn't fought characters centered around speed alone.

I don't think Goku could beat Superman under normal circumstances, just don't think that picture means much as an argument.

If he doesn't kill him the first shot he gets then no.

It's very confusing, but from what Whis says, Goku constantly lowers his power level to that of a normal human or something so I guess

Even my boy Green Lantern can one-shot Goku?

So Deadshot with a laser rifle could kill Goku?

Pretty much yea, the guy that used them fucked up the timeline so now there's two Kings of all

what the hell krillin what did you do that for?

Honestly, I'd say yes.
Not sure about that one. How'd he do it? Do Jaco's job for him?

>Hit a dude so hard his other incarnations felt it
I like it

what comic is this? Looks like it's from All-Star Superman.

What's so funny about truth justice and the American way

Why do these versus matches always portray Superman as being a big bruiser with no martial arts?

Supes has quite alot of combat experience behind and knows martial arts. In a match between him and Goku, Superman would fight like a non-lethal version of Hit.

Because weebs are touchy little faggots who have a chip on their shoulder from a lifetime of being teased for being weebs.

>by pure strength goku would defeat all

Weebs never stop outretarding themselves.

Just to let the monkey race know that they are still inferior to the human master race.

mainstream Superman, sure. but pre-crisis who can literally time travel as a little infant, thought robot Supes, AS Superman and Superman Prime are above Goku.

He didnt, doesnt make sense. Toei did a lot of noncano shit with goku. Driving, this filler, and gt are a few of them

Goku can do that too

GT has been retconned altogether.

But it does make sense whether it's canon or not. Goku was caught off guard and ate rock to face.

Goku jobs on a regular basis, but on a logical level I'd say that Goku would annihilate most Supermen that aren't either at Flash ATTOSECOND levels of science wank or Silver Age godly lunacy.

Yes it does, if its not canon it didnt happen.

Post the TV version instead.

It's still proven that Goku needs to be in focus to not take damage from small things. If Goku is caught off guard anything can hurt him, no matter the form he's in.

Yeah, but krillin never threw a rock at goku

Goku is an overrated shit

The biggest issue I have with this is that Dragon Ball is too inconsistent with it's power levels. One moment Goku is a universe buster capable of casually taking out everyone but the strongest of fighters, but the next he struggles to lift a few tons and it turns out Super Saiyan is achieved by making you back tingly.

Also as much as I like SSB, the overuse has really made it feel less special, and even kind of weak.

To be fair how does one make their back "tingly" on purpose? Seems a lot harder than then just needing rage at a certain moment.

Something something focus all of your energy into your back while powering up and make it tingle somehow.

I would agree with you, but Caulifla and Kale were capable of doing it after a few tries. Someone like Goku or Gohan took years of hard work, and then they were pushed to their breaking points. Just normal anger wasn't enough.

superman vs the elite its also a movie

reminder that even Bulma is more powerful than Goku

I assume the back tingly is the similar to someone being able to wiggle their ears, not everyone can do it, or it's harder for some other people. Maybe there are multiple ways of unlocking super saiyan, I mean I don't see why not, it would explain how Goten and Kid Trunks were able to unlock it at an early age. I'm not saying it's a good explaination, but it would answer the case of Goten, Trunks, and the Universe 6 saiyans.

you have the same problem with Supes though, because he has been written a bunch of different ways and each version isn't necessarily consistent with itself.

The problem with DB is Toriyama seems to get waves of nostalgia for how simple it was before and then gets pressured to do more transformations and ramp up stakes.
So you'll get episodes where the z fighters have trouble fighting a random giant snake in the wild but then they're sparring with the god of destruction.

I suppose so. It just felt like they played it off too easy.

As for Goten and Trunks, Goten you can explain it as he had an easier time due to Goku already being capable of becoming a Super Saiyan before he was born.

But for Trunks.. the only thing I can think of is maybe there's some rub off effect where Saiyans can have an easier time learning to transform when exposed to someone that can already turn Super Saiyan.

Yeah.

The thing that makes it more annoying though is the fact that Dragon Ball isn't passed around from writer to writer every few years like a comic book, so it makes the inconsistencies more annoying.

I can understand not having a perfect memory, or having difficulties writing something even with notes, but Dragon Ball REALLY has problems with constant bouncing around the power scale.

Like you said, people gave Goten, and Trunks a pass, they just came up with what you said and left it at that, and they never even explained how they did it officially, we just took to headcanon. So I don't see why we can't do the same with U6 Saiyans at least this time they gave us a reason to why they can transform with little effort without having to resort to headcanon. Just take what you can get, DBZ has never kept true to it's lore, so don't expect logical reasoning for anything this show does. This has contradicted it self in the past, present, and I'm sure it will do it in the future as well.

An android that did nothing but drive away poachers for several years was able to go toe to toe with SSB Goku.
>But Goku was holding back.
So was 17, this is brought up twice.

>people gave Goten, and Trunks a pass
Not that user but I never gave them a pass, them getting SSJ so easily is actually part of the reason I think they're shitty characters. U6 Saiyans are even worse.

I'm pretty sure the NINGEN level thing is meant more civilization wise than power wise. Kind of like the score system in Civ V. Which makes sense because U7 was loosely unified under a galactic dictatorship for years and shit got even worse once that empire fell

Superman is a cuck. Just have goku fuck his bitch and see him cry and commit suicide. Fucking fag.

This show has gone to shit after the Cell saga, plain and simple. Don't think about it too much, just enjoy the show for what it is, or drop the show, because it's reasoning is not gonna get any better.

17 has been grinding for years and you're mad he can keep up with main character kun just because he beat a few bosses?

Man the show went to shit as soon as Semi Perfect Cell showed up.

Man the show went to shit as soon as the Androids showed up.

Man the show went to shit as soon as Trunks killed Freeza.

Show went to shit at garlic jr

I like how the chain ended here since we all know it's true.

Goku without PIS at this point should destroy the entire DC star tier cabinet. That includes Martian Mancuck (without mindrape of course), WW, GL, and other niggas like that

>*gets lobotomized by supes*

That shit got retconned so that Goku had dropped down to base form before he got laser-ganked.

Darkseid had the Omega Effect temporarily removed at the time.

You're right that Goten and Kid Trunks suck as characters, but them being unbearably annoying is worse than Super Saiyan being their birth right