Atheist Daredevil

But why?

...

That doesn't seem right to me.

what happened to Soule?

...

Well, Marvel doesn't seem to think so!

Who knows? All I know is that they're purposely making their characters different from their classic iterations. It's not even a synergy case. MCU Strange has white temples and looks like a man in his 40s, current Strange has pitch black ahir and looks 30. Daredevil is now an atheist. Dunno what their endgame is.

The first page sounded like utter bullshit, but this page makes it sound like Soule's DD run is finally going somewhere, as long as he's talking about "I acted as I wasn't a believer anymore".. Maybe Mara was right after all?

Because liberals hate Christianity. Not canon by the way. I don't give a shit if they try and say it is. He is Catholic and always will be.

Im pretty sure there's some shit in that book about that guy's job that covered pretty much exactly that logic

Eh, I doubt it. It's probably just Soule's way of "leaving a mark". He's not imaginative enough for anything else, so at the very least his run will be knownas the run where Matt became an atheist.

>headcanon
This is the best choice, really. Considering all the retcons, OOC shit and whatnot, just construct a version of the character you like and run with it. It's what I'm doing with Doom, Stark, Moon Knight and others.

Also to add to this. That shitty excuse is so moronic. Anyone who believes in God and isn't a moron knows that God is not there to hold your hand.

Is it headcanon really though? Did they really do that officially or is it a what if story? Kind of like how in Spider-Gwen he is a villain.

This is an alternate universe right?
Marvel can't be that stupid right?
Right?

No, it's part of the current book by Soule. He mentioned being an atheist in the first or second issue as well (the scans are from #16). For all intents and purposes, it's canon that Matt is now an atheist.

This isn't coming out of nowhere. Matt hasn't been portrayed as a devout Catholic since Karen's death. IIRC Bendis made mention of it briefly.

People believing that God is beholden to the same fucking insipid saturday morning cartoon sense of morality as anyone else in their eyes or that he is a cop or something will always be the most conpletely and utterly baffling thing to me. I mean it's not even like God perpretrated the shit the character is upset about here by any stretch of the imagination other than letting it happen(as is usually the case in these scenarios), it's like these people think nature or free will should not exist and are a blight instead of a blessing given to humanity by god. The fact that these people would literally rather have a cosmic dictator preventing anyone from ever doing anything mean is the most evil most fucking infuriating thing in the world to me. If you want to just write a 'crises of faith' type arc there's like a million better ways to do it than making your character basically a petulent child.

Yeah, that's not Daredevil.

Shut the fuck up Soule, no one likes your shitty retcon.

Soule made him an atheist because Soule is an atheist and can't get into the head of someone who has faith.

This I said this hereI never blame God for anything wrong that happens. He gave us free will to live our lives. Matt would know this and this is just 2 obvious SJW fuck writers who hate Christianity shitting on a great character.

Exactly.

This line of thinking (which you see in a lot of these 'crises of faith' type stories) are always written by people who are thoughtlessly areligious. Absolute tripe

But why isn't God stopping Cancer user?! Huh!? HUH?!

That's basically the whole argument of this, yeah. A shitty story, really.

Same as Aaron. He's done that to both Thor & Strange.

How so? I haven't bothered to read much of Aaron's stuff in a long time.

Thor became Unworthy because Fury said "What if Gorr was right?", Gorr being the guy who started killing Gods because they didn't intervene. So Thor now believes all Gods are useless, ignorant, unworthy, vile creatures, himself included. Plus constant flashbacks to Jane denying that Thor is a God and that the Gods he believes are merely fables.

His Strange run began with a scientist who hated magic and Gods, and went on a universal science jihad. Now all the magic's gone and Strange fights with axes, looks 30, can't eat normal food and has no faith in anything anymore.

>turns away from the church after recognizing true evil in mankind

Yeah really great characterization there. The church totally says evil doesn't exist and will never be perpetrated to you so long as you are righteous! It's not like the entire crux of religion is proving your stalwart faith in and adherence to the lord in defiance of earthly wants and challenges or anything

Wow Marvel just loves destroying thing these days.
This Daredevil thing legit is making my blood boil.He is my favorite Marvel hero and his Catholicism is what drew me to him.They shove Islam down your throat but continue to shun Christianity.

The Thor thing was infuriating considering gods are basically just a species, not really metaphysical. I mean i don't even think it has ever been said it was the place of Norse gods to be omnipotent and kind, Thor has saved the Earth and even the universe like dozens of times but yeah sure Gorr was right and he should have just needlessly murdered all gods just for not fulfilling the promises of stories parents told their children in the viking age of fantastic heroes from space.

That's like saying you should go around murdering everyone who hasn't donated to Doctors Without Borders or something.

Yup. But hey, there are the same guys who made Doom, the Dictator with a Germanic Village fetish be warned of Islamic Terrorist and go "wow man, rude and racist, shut the fuck up". They have no idea how to write anybody. He's a dictator with closed borders with a fetish for Medieval Europe for fuck's sake, he would be kebabing Muslims, not building Mosques!

Worst thing is, Thor doesn't even believe in any Gods. The Asgardians and the other Pantheonsbelieved in Gods higher than themselves. And now Thor considers them phony as well!

It all reads as a bad fan-fic...

>Daredevil loses his faith because of "why does God allow bad things to happen to good people?" e.g. the Problem of Evil
>after years of being a superhero and facing fucked-up shit
>an argument that looks incredibly persuasive to 7th graders the Church answered in the fucking 1100s
I don't know why but somehow this pisses me off more than all of Marvel's other recent shit put together

>bad shit happens therefor no God

>So Thor now believes all Gods are useless, ignorant, unworthy, vile creatures, himself included

Well it's not like he's wrong about that.

>Anyone who believes in God and isn't a moron knows that God is not there to hold your hand.

Is that why even the intelligent Christians pray for God to change His plan and do them favors and shit?

Since Frank Miller the entire point of Daredevil is that awful shit keeps happening to him left and right. Of course he would lose faith or at the very least be highly skeptic or even resentful of the idea of a benevolent God that Christianity pushes.

Miller also came up with the idea that someone with Daredevil's morality would have to be Catholic. Artistic vision.

>Being this retarded

Faith was the only thing keeping him from AN HEROING himself because all the bad shit that happens to him. The entire POINT of Christianity is that life sucks but there's better waiting for you

If God has the power to stop bad things from happening, and bad things continue to happen regardless of that supposed power, we can infer one of two things:

1.) God hates us and wants us to suffer.
2.) There is no God.

If we thank God for the good things in our lives, we must blame Him for the bad as well. A winning lottery ticket is no more or less an act of God than breast cancer.

All the rough shit in his life happens due to human will. His dad decided to step into a fight that would kill him, He decided to fight crime, his enemies decided to kill the ones he love. God has nothing to do with his suffering, if anything he'd be thankful for god he somehow isnt a paralyzed mess.

>1.) God hates us and wants us to suffer.
Suffering doesn't necessarily come from hate. Hardship is a necessity of life.

That's not how everybody responds to hardship or tragedy, you dipshit. You honestly think Christianity would have lasted this long if it had no answer to injustices on Earth? Fucking Hell, I can't even remember ever hearing someone learned in Christianity say that everything is fair and good on Earth. That's not even the doctrine anyway.

>Faith was the only thing keeping him from AN HEROING himself

Not really. Matt's faith has been a device to primarily explore the paradoxical of being a lawyer who defends the law during the day but spends his nights beating the shit out of criminals, since it feeds his Catholic guilt, which is also tied to his complex hero worship aimed at his father, who drunkenly beat Matt up for getting into fights rather than focusing on his studies. Matt might occasionally find hope in faith but it's his human contacts that keep him from going off the deep end, since deep down he's a really angry man.

>Suffering doesn't necessarily come from hate.

On the other hand, only someone who truly hates humanity would ever devise a fate as soul-crushing as cancer. "Hey, instead of giving you a quick and painless death, I'm going to give you a disease that will eat away at your body and turn you into a shell of the person you once were! Enjoy peeing into a bedpan while you're spending your last few weeks in a hospital, loser!"

And it's something that people do to each other. For other purposes deism exists.

Heaven's a great long con concept to sucker people into believing it'll be better after they die.

And if we take the idea of God viewing us as his children, theres the whole 'hardship/misery builds character' Parents bring up, but upscaled to a far larger level due to the scale God is working at.

3) He wants us to grow and endure and learn from these mistakes

4) It gives us free will.

There's an entire book about suffering happening to Christians despite the existence of God.

>He wants us to grow and endure and learn from these mistakes

Yeah, we ain't doing that well on that.

>3.)

Then He sucks at his job.

>4.)

If God exists and has a plan for all his creations, how can any of us truly have free will?

And I'm sure that will comfort a man whose entirely life has been one tragedy after another, where he daily witnesses evil triumphing over good and there being no justice for people.

Same way we can have plans involving other people who retain their free will.

I could tolerate athiest Tont Stark.
I begrudgingly accepted athiest Reed Richards.
But you don't make mat fucking murdock athiest.

He can just find faith again. This is no different from him abandoning his entire life and becoming a hobo for the fifteenth time.

He loves us so much that he finds it obscene to change who and what we are. To stop evil is to strip away what makes you, -you-.

It would still be Family Guy atheism which means atheism knowing that souls and higher powers exist.
Non-Christian more likely.

Are you describing Matt Murdock, or Job, user?

Because no one at Marvel knows how to write a character that doesn't have 100% of their opinions and viewpoints.

suffering =/= hardship.

>He loves us so much that he finds it obscene to change who and what we are.

He allows us to get diseases like cancer and the black plague, allows us to suffer weeks, months, years of debilitating pain and the constant degradation of both our physical and mental selves, because He loves us? That is a hell of a way to prove it.

Why do christians even come to this fucking site? You do realize that just by association you're already going straight to hell, right?

Political correctness causes identity politics which builds up stereotypes such as every Christian is white or a republican, every Muslim is brown, every atheist is a liberal, and so on. Marvels also a partisan club so they pick and choose what they think is left or right.

It's tough love. You know, like when he flooded the world.

Sup Forums immigrants

They also made Parker atheist did they not?

"I love you, so I'll kill you" is something that an abusive husband would say, holy shit.

Just imagine how triggered christian fags would be if Preacher came out today.

I'm okay with Peter Parker being one but Dare Devil come on now that's just agenda shit.

You know, it has its flaws in the writing, but at least that splash has a lot of nice details and symbolism in in that works. Simple stuff like his dad and the nun being so close, Widow bring there, etc. etc., but it's good.

If I could see someone lose faith, it would be Murdock. Even ol' Parker luck ain't nothing compared to Murdock's Law:
>Can this get any worse?
>Sure it can.

More and more comics are establishing characters into atheists and it's fucking obnoxious. The problem of evil never sways a person's faith, let alone a Catholic. THE ENTIRE POINT OF CHRISTIANITY IS LOVE EVEN IN SUFFERING. Have they never heard of martyrdom?
Why can't liberals into theology?

Yeah, I get what you mean since Parker rarely ever said things about God but then he literally sold his marriage to the devil.

>Book of Job
Ah, the one where God and his buddy Satan torture a guy because of a fucking bet. Ancient Jewish fairytales are pretty hardcore.

One does not learn, nor gain free will by dying from breast cancer.

>THE ENTIRE POINT OF CHRISTIANITY IS LOVE EVEN IN SUFFERING.

And people wonder why folks don't give a shit about going to church on Sunday anymore.

>Implying Hell exists in the Bible

Medieval fairy tales detected. You either get stuck in Sheol regardless of your wickedness, or believe in Jesus and get saved. The Devil is dropped into a fiery pit in his dragon form after the end.

Yeah but not permanent.

>retards think Catholicism and Christianity are the same

It's not like he's going "DAE think god sux? XD" like Rick and Morty or some shit. He just lost his faith, and it's easy to argue that he would after everything he's seen. Next writer will have a bit where Matt re-finds his faith and it'll be very dramatic and cool, so chill the fuck out.

Only because you occasionally you have to let him climb up from the bottom of the well so that he can fall down again.

You have freewill by default. That's not something gained or learned.
Also Telomeres are a bitch.
I was generalizing, user. It's deeper than that otherwise the Summa Theologica wouldn't be so fucking long.

Funny thing is, for all his supposed evilness, Satan only ever directly killed a handful of people -- and the shit with Job was basically a hit sanctioned by God, so Satan was arguably acting as God's Right Hand at that time.

God killed millions of people. At best, Satan killed a couple dozen or so, and most of them were done at the behest of God. And yet we're supposed to believe Satan is truly evil and God loves us?

People fear God that's why you hear them call themselves God fearing people. So him being an asshole is reasonable.

Why are people supposed to fear Satan, then? Satan seems like a pretty chill motherfucker compared to the Almighty. I don't see Satan going around and slaughtering entire countries because someone ate a shellfish or some shit.

...

God once ruined a man's life for a bet he made with the Devil.

I found it extremely funny. You can be a Christian and appreciate the dark humor of the situation.

have you tried reading the bible

Death is only a minute fraction of life eternal. The damnation the Devil brings is far worse than a mortal death, if you believe in the eternal soul.

>God has Satan ruin a man's life to settle a bet

If two people ruined your life to settle a bet, would you appreciate the "dark humour" of the situation?

No.
But those are just stories.

>becomes an atheist
>takes on an illegal immigrant sidekick
Blue pills, not even one

Do people not realize Job is a parable? It never actually happened, its a lesson in moral fortitude in the face of seemingly insurmountable and seemingly arbitrary hardship

Why is Satan perceived as "evil" when his worst possible act -- murder -- was a hit job ordained by God? What makes Satan such a horrible person that we must fear him as if he is the greater evil than the deity who can wipe out humanity without so much as giving a damn?

>Do people not realize Job is a parable?

Congratulations, you've never met a person who thinks the Bible is an actual historical document.

May you never be burdened with doing so.

I don't think you've actually read the bible or the book of Job, and you're just going off memes

Even in the context of the bible its a parable, its very distinct from the purportedly historical sections of the Old Testament.

>liberals hate Christianity

Laughing at you.

Doesn't answer my question. Why is Satan perceived as evil when God killed far, far more people and rained down more hellfire and brimstone upon humanity than Satan ever did?

It does a better job teaching that if God exists, he's a dick.

There not suppose to fear Satan but beware of his tricks.

I did answer your question, in the context of the immortal soul a mortal death is not as devastating as eternal damnation.

Like getting Eve to eat the apple? Ooooh, he gave her sentience and free will. I thought that was supposed to be celebrated, not feared.

Why is being sent to Satan seen as eternal damnation when the alternative is spending eternity in Heaven with an omnicidal deity?

I'm an agnostic atheist but some of these atheist suck at debating religion.

Right, "eternal damnation" probably tops genocide as far as this God character's atrocities go.