What if Hans hadn't gloated at the end of the movie?

What if Hans hadn't gloated at the end of the movie?
>kisses anna
>acts surprised when the kiss doesn't work
>"elsa's magic has become too powerful if I want to save you I'm going to have to kill her to end the curse"
>anna freaks out
>"guards watch over anna till I get back, I'm sorry anna but it's the only way"
Would he still be considered the villain?

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You're implying the plan is still there.
So yes of course.
If he actually believed what he was doing was the right thing and legitimately liked Anna then he'd just be an anti-hero.

Nice fanfic, but we know even if Hans had tried to play it a little more cool, there'd be a plot convenience like Olaf stumbling on his secret diary or some shit that revealed his evil plan and then when Anna confronted him he'd run out of lies and come clean.

Sometimes I wonder if Disney will ever make a villain princess. I mean, the movie can still have another "good" princess but having a genuinelly villainous princess would be a nice twist.

Some of Disney's princesses have at least had rivals.

Hans was such a lame villain
>Wow, the most perfect, humble, kind guy in a movie with no discernible moustache twirling villain turns out to be the mustache twirling villain
And then his plan is just "I'm gonna kill you guys and be king"
Thanks Disney

The trolls cursed Anna, and it affected Hans and turned him evil.

If you played Crusader Kings you'd understand.

I feel like making Hans the red herring villain, and making him so outrageously villainous towards the end was at the behest of the producers meddling with the already shaky story.

The main opposing force should have been Elsa's insecurities undermining her control of her magic, but I guess that's just too complicated for children if they don't have a face for the "bad guy".

How come Hans's buddies cheered when he was defeated even though they had no way of knowing what was actually going on?

>royal prince of a foreign sovereignty attempts to kill both of a nation's remaining members of the royal family
>instead of causing any sort of war or diplomatic incident they just ship him back to his family more or less scot free
Moana didn't have a "main bad guy" unless you're an idiot who counts Tamatoa, and it did fine.

You could remove Hans as the villain almost entirely
>kiss doesn't work
>he hurries off to try and find Elsa
>The Duke's goons are the ones who try to kill Elsa in the climax and things proceed normally
>The kiss didn't work because Anna and Hans were never truly in love and ultimately he's gently turned down
It kind of undermines that whole idea of her making a mistake by rushing some relationship with a guy she just met when it turns out the only reason it didn't work out was because the guy was an evil monster who tried to kill her and her sister. I feel like they only made Hans the villain to get out of making the audience feel bad for him when he gets dumped. It was an easy way to have Anna end up with Kristoff with no one being hurt.

>Movie constantly chews on Anna for getting with someone she just met
>Ends with her getting with a different guy she also just met and everyone is suddenly okay with it
Kristoff should've just not existed.

I figured that the point was that she actually got to know Kristoff and in the end they'd take it slow rather than just hurrying to get married like she wanted to with Hans. But the end of the movie never emphasized that at all.

The fact that they're a couple after knowing each other for only a few days goes against the whole point of the message. Even if it's not straight into marriage.

Also the Trolls' song.

I know the script was probably rushed but would it have killed them to get one person to look it over?

he's supposed to be a perfunctory villain just to keep the third act moving until the moment where anna and elsa are reuinited - the real antagonist was always elsa's fear of herself

Tangled had the exact same rushed nonsensical romance, except in Tangled it was central to the plot instead of tacked on like Frozen. Honestly the characters and plot of Frozen are pretty solid with the exception of Hans' sudden pointless betrayal, meanwhile Tangled is more of a mess and it's easy to see if you compare it to the Disney film it has the most in common with, The Hunchback Of Notre Dame.

In Hunchback Frollo keeps Quasimodo locked away by warning him of the dangers of the world, Quasi doesn't believe him and goes out and gets himself hurt, thus one of the central conflicts Quasimodo must face is if he's willing to face the evils of the world to find friendship or if he's content to be alone.
In Tangled Gothel warns Rapunzel of the dangers of the world, Rapunzel goes out and has a great time, finding out that even the worst criminals are nice guys with hearts of gold.
In Hunchback Frollo is cold and distant but it still takes Quasimodo a lot of willpower to disobey him because he's the closest thing Quasi has to a father, one of the central plot conflicts is Quasimodo finally getting the willpower to fightback.
In Tangled Gothel is a better mother than most Disney princesses get but Rapunzel only has one scene where she really worries about disobeying her and in fact at the end of the story where Rapunzel should get a chance to stand up to Gothel the decision is taken from her by Eugene.
In Hunchback Quasimodo is really good at the things you'd expect him to be, namely climbing the side of buildings and swinging on ropes. he has a few hobbies like carving figurines, also he's kinda insane because he spends most of his time by himself.
In Tangled Rapunzel is good at everything she tries and she's got no mental issues other than being naive, but even in her naivety she tends to be more right than everyone else.

Because a girl punched him. It validates the violence.

They should have just cut that part. It shows Anna is a vengeful bitch who attacks unprovoked.

Gothel was a terrible person. She kidnapped a baby for her own vanity.

Rapunzel stood up against Gothel when she realized she was the lost princess. But then Gothel chained Rapunzel up. Yeah, real maternal.

Yes, Quasimodo learned the world isn't that bad, but the second time he left Notre Dame was to save Esmeralda. Rapunzel, however, left because she wanted to, not because she had to.

>She kidnapped a baby
The king stole her flower, she was just getting it back.

The King uprooted a flower on unowned land wothin his jurisdiction. Is it illegal to pick wildflowers in say a national park?

So why wasn't the Snow Queen the bad guy like in the novel?

If they're rare endangered one of a kind magical flowers, yes.

Answer- it's not unless if they were intentionally planted or protected.

Source: theguardian.com/law/2011/mar/16/rules-picking-wild-flowers

It wasn't under protection.

The Snow Queen wasn't a villainess in the original fairytale. She's not good, but she's not exactly attacking people.

But Frozen is so different from its source material it doesn't matter.

Says you.

It was under a witch's protection.

Gothel isn't a witch. Just a bitch.

A flower can't be under protection if it was unearthed by the orders of the king himself.

>meanwhile Tangled is more of a mess and it's easy to see if you compare it to the Disney film it has the most in common with, The Hunchback Of Notre Dame.

Hunchback of Notre Dame is a mess. It's tonally inconsistent, which is worse than a character being "too perfect."

Or something where the princess is a villain but not the main protagonist or love interest.

>Gothel was a terrible person. She kidnapped a baby for her own vanity.
Gothel being good or evil has nothing to do with anything I said.
Anybody can make a statement, it's when you actually back up a statement that it turns into a argument.

Because they saw that Anna was alive. Seeing Anna alive proved that Hans' story was bullshit.

If Hans' ultimate plan was to marry into the throne, have Elsa die, and then come to power, why did he stop the Duke's soldiers from killing Elsa during their fight with her in the ice palace? It was only him and the soldiers, who all wanted to kill Elsa, and not knowing the other party wanted the same. All Hans needed to do was let the soldier shoot Elsa, feign sadness and say there was nothing he could do, and rise to power with no one being the wiser.

But it's not bullshit, Elsa did almost killed her sister.

Or the witch brought her sister back to life and Anna accused the good and noble Hans of misdeeds because she is being controlled by the ice witch.

But he told them that Anna died in his arms, which they later see isn't the case. He deliberately told them a story that would keep them from going to Anna and figuring out what's really going on.

There were some plans in early stages to have a "dark Elsa" manifestation, which could have been interesting and also a chance to have a sexy evil-looking Elsa.

They have nothing to suggest that Elsa has mind control powers. True, they mistrust Elsa and you could make the jump that they'd start to suspect other powers, but all they've been able to see so far is ice related magic, and nothing else.

There was at least some foreshadowing in that love song at the start.

You'll notice if you rewatch the scene that Hans looks up right when he grabs the crossbow. He was deliberately aiming for the chandelier.

You don't assume a witch is incapable of doing something unless you have certain proof she can't do it. Besides beguiling minds is one of the fundamental uses of witchcraft.

Just once I'd like people to actually post their evidence rather than make vague references and expect everyone else to read their mind.

>, it's when you actually back up a statement that it turns into a argument.

K, Hunchback has

>a sexual assault scene where frollo manhandles esmeralda and sniffs her hair
>a sexual scene where esmeralda is getting undressed
>a sexual scene where esmeralda poledances
>a scene where frollo sets a farmer's house on fire with the intent of killing him, his wife, and his infant child
>multiple violent execution scenes

Then to distract you from the content, it switches between these very dark scenes to goofy scenes where that one gargoyle wants to fuck Esmeralda's goat. Does not work.

>what's really going on
Anna dying from her sister's magic? If Hans didn't become a mustache twirling villain right at that moment then he simply wouldn't be the villain of the story.

Even Game of Thrones has humor.

Because every attempt at doing the Snow Queen since the 90s derailed into the creative team making her into waifu bait.

In the Disney Renaissance, it was going to be a romantic comedy about the Snow Queen trying to find love like some kinda G-Rated version of those Oglaf comics.

One of the last few attempts before Frozen came around was going to have an older Gerda and Kai so that Snow Queen/Kai could be endgame romance and Gerda would be a villainous golddigging bitch.

If that's the case, Hans is an idiot for trying to kill her with flair instead of efficiency.

Alright. Before the song starts he mentions how he is the last one in line for the throne. He jesters towards the kingdom during love is an open door. "I've been searching my whole life to find my own place." He is singing over Anna not with her during this song. Will say anything to make it seem like they are a match..."that's what I was going to say." Nigga nobody says finishes each other's sandwiches. Han is the perfect politician. Nothing he did was ever for the good of the kingdom but to make himself look good. There.

No it's genius. That way he is free of blame. If the dukes men had killed Elsa then Anna would more than likely hold him to blame. But if he made it look like an accident then he could say I tried to stop them. I guess he could dumb the body but Anna might want to send a search party to find it. See now I'm getting in too deep. Fuck I thought I was over this!

>Nothing he did was ever for the good of the kingdom
Except when he saved it from a freak blizzard.

He'd be a villain that wasn't caught. Also god could you imagine the storm Elsa would create had she found Anna dead and alone. Jesus. I kingdom of frost. Everyone and everything frozen.

He did that in front of everyone and made a scene out of it. It was to himself look good. I'm not saying he didn't help but he never did it out of genuine kindness and concern.

It's not about the existence of comic relief. These scenes, as I said, are there to distract children from the content of what's being shown. The "humorous" scenes occur during and interrupt the tense ones. It brings the movie down.

Frozen also has this problem, where you have the fucking weird troll song and then Anna immediately collapses and is close to death not even ten seconds after it ends.

Searching to find your own place is what 100% of Disney protags do. And even if Hans is a gold digger well so was Aladdin, doesn't mean he is a murderer. And maybe Hans was just trying to be charming, it's not like he'd be the first Disney character to try to pretend they're something they're not to try to get their love interest. Aladdin pretended to be a prince, Ariel pretended to be human, were they being deceptive assholes? Is being nice to a girl to try to get her attention so much worse?

The point is, if that song was really meant to be foreshadowing that Hans was some kind of evil jerk then it was bad foreshadowing, otherwise it wouldn't have came out of the left field for so many people who watched the movie.

Humor during dark scenes is a staple of children's entertainment. If you can't handle that you really shouldn't be watching tv made for grade schoolers.

He wouldn't be a villain at all, he would just be the guy who didn't truly loved Anna.

That's bullshit though, do you think all kings act out of altruism? He cared for the people and provide in a time of extreme need.

Everything I laid out to you holds true. Another user pointed out that Hans did try to make Elsa's death look like an accident. He was also going to let Anna die cold and alone. Hans was a villain. He could've not been a villain. It would've been amazing if for he had kissed Anna and nothing happened and for Anna's last to see her sister one last time. That would've been nice. But with what we were given and how the events of the story played out he was a bad guy.

It doesn't change the fact that he actively tried to kill Elsa. You take that out and now you've got something. Also while I'm here is the ice freezing spell truly a death spell or are trapped in ice until an act of true love thaws you. Anna was completely frozen for a few moments before the "curse" wore off. Same for the kingdom. Elsa's act of true was loving herself thus how after everything was thawed it was back to normal like Anna. Am I reading too much into this?

In a Disney movie you can bet your sweet ass I do!!!

Why doesn't the Devil appear like in the novel?

Because Maleficent came out and tanked.

Frozen was clearly salvaged.

shes so perfect.

No, you're right user. He needed it to look like an accident, thats all there is to it.

>he actively tried to kill Elsa
He also saved her, twice.

That's exactly what I thought when I first saw the movie years ago.

They made him a villain so the audience wouldn't feel bad about him getting cucked.

>Sometimes I wonder if Disney will ever make a villain princess.
And who does that serve? You?
Disney Princesses is not just a term, but a marketing brand. Disney isn't going to waste a princess slot to please someone who doesn't buy Disney merchandise.

Do you think Maleficent was the bad guy in her movie?

>Hans did try to make Elsa's death look like an accident
Which doesn't make any sense. Those medieval operators shooting Elsa were acting on the duke's orders, if they killed her nobody would've blamed Hans.

Consider this, OP: What is the point of being a villain if you don't get to gloat?

Helsa confirmed.

No;
But Maleficent is one of the main bad guys of Disney canon,and it was a movie about examining, humanizing and redeeming that bad guy in the eyes of the audience. It barely made its own production cost in profit.

I believe its pretty clear by the amount of merchandise that Frozen was always designed to end with two princesses. If Elsa started as a badguy, she'd need to be redeemed during the movie to survive its end. (Every Disney villain dies, remember?)

Heroes are the one who need fame and glory not villains. If a villain robs a bank or manages to become king through backstabery or something then they already have their reward. But if hero stops a robbery he doesn't gain anything from it, that's why they need glory or guilt to drive them.

If a villain robs a bank and doesnt stop to gloat, he's just a criminal.
If a villain just backstabs his way to the throne and never stops to gloat he's just an usurper.

Neither act, in a vacuum, makes a villain.

...

villains come from villages.

His hand wasn't even on the trigger. How could he have control over that when letting the Weselton guard shoot her would be a sure thing?

EXTRA THICC

What makes you think Maleficent tanked?

Anna wouldn't blame Hans for shit. Her legs were an open door. If Elsa died, she would have been a drive-thru with a wedding within a week.

But he did. He stopped the Weselton guards from assassinating her & later saved her soul by talking her down out of her rage. A power-hungry villain would have only tried to provoke her to justify murder in self-defense.

Well what is your definition of a villain then?