Spider man

What's Sup Forums toughts on the overral Ezekiel and Spider-Totens saga?
It was probably the first story arc I had follow thoroughly. But it's been ages since I have read that, and probably the first time I'm discussing it. People seem to have a love or hate relation with Stracynzki's runs, and I remember people not liking that much all the "mystical spider powers" stuff.

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>overral

*overall

I liked it, fuck the haters.

Shathra was a cutite.

It was my enter to spidey comics. I fucking loved it.

On its own it was decent story. Personally I just don't like those whole "hero by destiny" type of stories, doubly so when Spider-Man's premise is basically how an average guy learns the importance of responsibility when having power randomly thrust upon him.

I made an entire video (with cc/subtitles - sound works if you listen to it in headphones) has where I discuss the pros and cons of JMS/JrJr's run (as well as some other cool stuff): youtu.be/2ILCTco-9vo?t=2m11s

But if we were to make a list of great things (bullet points) that actually worked:

* Excellent characterization of Peter as an adult (along with Paul Jenkins doing a quality work on PPSM, especially after the lackluster and meaningless stuff that was really drawn out by Byrne and Mackie), finally a deeper understanding of what makes Aunt May tick, spot on interaction with Mary Jane and how they cannot be together (separation anxiety) because of Pete not dropping his Spider-Man identity

* Great new villain (whom, I must say, because of his design, confused with Morbius: both are vampires and both sort of have the same visual flavor to them) that challenged our hero and his very existence (survival of the fittest, baby!)

* Fantastic status quo change with him going back to his school and helping some of his students with some really weird stuff (vortex mofo kidnapping children)

* Bill Lamont (their team-ups were priceless and it was interesting to see a potential Cap. Stacy figure to this more grown up version of Pete)

* Interaction with Doc Strange (Ditko would've been proud), Cap and Dr. Doom (perfect setting at the airport as well)

* That ASM#500 issue... nuff said, I still cry when I get to THAT page...

* Ezekiel's gradual transformation from an ally to a backstabbing bastard

* The Last Spider-Man story glimpses were sensational (too bat that later on it all got perverted during the Grim Hunt saga).

* 9/11 issue... speechless...

* Inking and coloring during that era of Spider-Man was out of this world, legit cool-loking panels and memorable images.

CONS:

* Quesada (Sins Past/BIB/OMD interference)
* Deodato & The Other (bringing Morlun back was a stupid, pathetic idea)
* Hydra Arc
* How it all tragically concluded, I suppose...

It doesn't negate that premise at all.
The run even ends ambiguously, where Peter is talking to a shaman who basically says "does it matter how you got your powers?"

Sort of forgot to give a shout-out to Ron Garney during the Civil War/Back in Black arcs (awesome fight sequences between Spidey & Cap/Spidey vs. Kingpin - that was a totally brutal beatdown and, probably, one of the best confrontations that they ever had in comics). I really liked the writing and the direction (pre-Civil War situation, post-Civil War development, Stark/Richards-interaction, Cap's famous speech that got butchered in MCU, brilliant idea to use Wilson Fisk as the guy who ordered a hit, Pete going berserk on Fisk's people after a failed assassination attempt) that Straczynski took at that time, I even think that Garney had all the chance of becoming the next JrJr for JMS (a constant collaborator), but, unfortunately, it didn't pan out because of obvious reasons...

read a year's worth of Howard Mackie's run which I enjoyed (I was 9/10 years old) even though it was bonkers, then got to this and it was a major step up.So yeah, I loved it.

>* Deodato & The Other (bringing Morlun back was a stupid, pathetic idea)

It was a fun idea. Giving peter parker new powers is always good in my book.

>spider-totem powers
>Gwen is a slut
>OMD
Yeah, JMS is the greatest.

I don't know, man. I felt that the way that JMS has dealt with him during his first appearance, at that factory, was a good, maybe even a perfect sort of closure for him (sort of Ben Reilly-esque way of disappearing: ashes and stuff).

New powers: I will admit that the stingers was sort of a nice touch, but organic webbing felt like a synergy tactic with Raimi's films. I mean, I liked some of the comics where he became Cap Universe (even if it was temporary) and got new powers, but the story has to be really entertaining on its own merits.

These were the first Spider-Man comics I started reading in the library as a kid after watching reruns of the 90s show, and I absolutely loved it.

Normally I'm not a big fan of mystical stuff, but I thought it worked here.
I will admit the totem stuff worked better the first time around, when it was implied that it didn't really matter whether it was destiny or a coincidence, and was left more vague. But then the other happened and it became more solidly mystical stuff.

I still enjoyed the other though. It was just neat seeing Spidey interact with stuff he usually didn't mess with.

The JRJR/JMS run will always be my favorite comic run of all time.

Issue #500 is probably my favorite Spider-Man comic ever

Nostalgia glasses on.

I was fine with the other powers, but II'll agree that Sins Past was pretty bad, and mostly his fault. He wanted it to be Peter's kids which is still a not great idea, but his substitution was horrible.

OMD was not his fault though. He wanted his name off the book but Queseda forced him to finish it.

youtube.com/watch?v=mb1WE3kmE0g - never gets old!

It should have ended with Ezekiel sacrificing himself and been kept ambiguous, maybe being revisited every now and then.

Instead we got clusterfucks like The Other and Spider-Verse

>clusterfucks like The Other and Spider-Verse
Which are being read nowadays and will be loved some decades later...

Would you say that #500 is a good jumping off point?

I like the idea of totems and such. If they just changed the destiny crap and made it so every generation a Spider totem must be had. That way it can still be totally random and not by fate. The totemic background kinda fleshed out some of Spider-Man's rogue gallery. Morlun was an interesting idea executed badly, and made worse by slott. But Seeing Parker utterly destroyed and no matter how much "if this be my destiny" will power he used he was still going to die. The best part of reading the Other was the lead up, that was ruined by having him resurrected immediately. I remember that Oh Shit moment where he lost his eye, really made Morlun a threat. Now he is a joke and best left forgotten.

Nah, I reread them like a year ago when someone storytimed them here, and they absolutely hold up.

He made the MJ/Peter relationship matter again, and made Aunt May the best character she's ever been.

94651963 - I wouldn't say so, to be honest. I think that #500 works more as a this special anniversary type of an issue (try to imagine it as Parker's best birthday present ever, one that will never be topped), that you can really appreciate after reading all issues that were done by JMS/JrJr + all 55 years of Spidey's history, all the countless titles and stories, both good and bad (in all mediums), and it concludes on a very high note, one that brings everything full circle, as it should be. So, in other words, no, you see, #500 was published during a very different situation at Marvel offices, way before other editors and punks started doing their shenanigans with renumberings and other nonsense that gets you up to speed with 'yet another revoltin development' in the world of Peter Parker.

Come to think of it, I would even go as far as saying that John Semper Jr's "Farewell Spider-Man" conclusion of TAS (final episode) and Straczynski's #500 are really tonally similar and quite effective at what they tried to achieve with presenting Pete with some otherworldly events and questions (parallel universe, what if scenarios and etc).

Why isn't that white cop trying to shoot those two unarmed black men? Isn't this a Marvel comic?

He made Doom cry, too.

Anyone know the issues of the MJ arc?

I see. I asked because most of the shit stories(sins past, OMD, BND, Slott) come mostly after it and there's little good after it.

94652344: ASM v2 #39-50 (that's when, up until the very last issue, you are left wondering whether they will be able to patch things up or not).

I can never see anyone not looking at spider-verse as a wasted arc with all the mass deaths.

Thanks. Shame so few issues of JMS have been published as hardcovers around here, it's missing 46-50 in this case.

Especially when the main goal was just to piss off as many readers as possible. No one's gonna look back fondly on that fat fuck's abomination, or even acknowledge it's existence.

probably the last time that Peter was allowed to acts like and adult and not a man-child.

94651582 - Sigh, if it wasn't for BND, Quesada, Slott and other incompetent nincompoops, we probably would've seen even more traces of growth, progression and transformation (Peter Parker as a fugitive on the run, dealing with side effects of Aunt May's death, trying to hide with MJ god knows where and under what circumstances, where nothing is for certain and where the future is always under a big question mark... would read the hell out of a risky comic book like that, sort of like that Sensational Annual that was written by Fraction, only extended).

Not to mention that, somehow, at some point, they would've gotten to this 'Aguirre-Sacasa' point (without Conway's fan fiction about MJ and their kid suiting up; that's where I feel, DeFalco and Frenz' Spider-Girl series worked much, much better):