Dumbing of Age

Last night, Joyce was sending some mixed signals while Joe got uncharacteristically vulnerable.

My money's on this being the second ship of this storyline that Willy is just building up in order to immediately crush it forever.

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youtube.com/watch?v=f_Zk02FOvMU
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

Oh, and then there's this too.

I don't like either version, but this one does make Joyce look a bit more loony. What's more interesting is Willy's comment on it:
>This version of the strip was fine, but I wanted to establish a better rhythm and less slapdash tone for the rest of the scene, and so I slowed down and added a few beats in the middle while cropping off a few jokes at the end. Sometimes the emotional core is more important than how efficient the panels are at dishing gags.

Ugh, I don't even know where to start with this one tonight.

At the very least we now know that Amber fucked Ryan up severely enough for him to still be in the hospital instead of prison a "long time" from now.

Joe seems a little insane. I get what he's trying to get at but the way he's saying it is off-putting to me. And this big speech is kind of contradictory to his nature, which is probably the point but also a bit weird to wrap my mind around.

>I am literally incapable of sticking to a single tone
He almost has some self-awareness. Almost.

Still say she cut off his dick

I'd say Joe is a strawman caricature, but I have met dudes who act like him.

"IT'S YOUR FAULT HE TRIED TO RAPE ME, JOE"

god is imaginary and you should have gotten raped joyce

I'm still mad that he just pushed Joyce out of the whole Ryan debacle so that Amber and Sal could have something to bond over.

You aren't a human being to anyone, Joyce. Walky's fucking someone else in this timeline and you? You're an ambulatory joke about naive biblethumpers on the spectrum.

Three or four days hospitalization is pretty average for a simple gut stab that doesn't require surgery or have complications. Even if required surgery, unless it was major or he suffered an infection, he'd still be looking to get out of the hospital in a week - give or take a day.

It's just kinda awkwardly phrased. Joe is intentionally putting women at arms length as to not incur emotional attachment. While understandable for her to react this way, Joyce is transferring her feelings onto Joe, the problem is that Joyce is the one woman Joe very explicitly does not treat like a sexual prize.

Joyce a cute.

That being said, this is kind of retarded. It's natural to judge something or someone based on looks, Joes just put his thoughts out there and everyone got buttflustered because of his opinions. This is one of the dumbest things I've ever seen written.

If you genuinely interpreted the strip that way, you need to take a step back.

She's saying that people are treating her like an object, a thing without feelings. She's upset with Joe because it reminds her of the way Ryan saw her.

Of course it's not Joe's fault. It just made her realize that not everyone who's objectifying her is a rapist. Sometimes, they're the people you call your friends.

As for your second sentence, I know this is Sup Forums, but grow up. Try contributing to discussion like an adult.

>Joyce is transferring her feelings onto Joe, the problem is that Joyce is the one woman Joe very explicitly does not treat like a sexual prize.
I think that her points are still valid. She's not the target/mark this time, but other girls exist, and they're being treated like objects by Joe. They might feel the same way, especially if they're one of the 3 girls who came forward about Ryan.

Rage for days. I hate it too.

Sucks that she's always the butt of everyone's jokes.

It's especially stupid that they were able to identify themselves and were appeased by a freakin' doughnut.

I understand the idea behind bringing Joyce and Joe together for this conversation, but this whole story arc has been a mess.

Jesus J. Christ, Joyce just keeps becoming the worse character every strip at a time.

Y'know, if it weren't for the fact that the episode only came out earlier this month, I'd say that Willis is ripping off an episode of the podcast "Wolf 359", which had a similar element in this month's episode regarding communication and how what one person says is interpreted by others differently.

Patreanon, let me know if anybody brings it up in the comments. I'd almost ask you to do it for me, but I don't want you to blow your cover.

also of note: I know that Willis has changed comics on a whim, so I shouldn't be surprised if it actually IS the case that he's ripping them off.

I should check the Twitter accounts he follows.

>What is the death of the author

People hearing things other than what you said is a thing as old as time

Being appeased by a doughnut would indicate that the vast majority of them didn't really care or saw Joe giving a public mea culpa as good enough.

Really, I think the issue with this conversation is that the sentiment of the first part would work better being placed after this one, as to show that while Joyce is upset by Joe's actions she isn't upset with Joe.

well that was easy
@Wolf359Radio follows @damnyouwillis, but not the other way around.

I'm aware of that, but the episode came out only a few weeks ago and follows a similar thread. It's more than likely a coincidence, but it's something I'm willing to go completely autistic over if I can find a lead.

Also, I don't think that's what Death of the Author is.

It can kinda be applied in this case. The work should stand on its own. If the podcast episode had a better execution of the same thing that's all it should be judged on, is the heart of DotA.

I do like the tie in of her logic at least. But you know Joyce, everything can possibly kill you. It's better to enjoy life and live confidently but whatever

>DotA

>Dumbing of the Ancients
>Coming to a laughably outdated console near you
>in 3050
>And it's all in a buffer, so don't expect any patches or updates for another 100 years after release

>There was a B-Boy
I had to read that like five times before I realized she was stuttering and this wasn't some joke edit making her talk about some guy dancing at an Afrika Bambaata gig in 1980 or something.

That's fair.

What I'm trying to say is that Willis might have been like "I have this ending, but after listening to this podcast I'm going to copy their homework and change things up a little so it doesn't look like I copied it." I'd tell you to go listen to the podcast yourself, but I'd personally rather that you listen to the whole series, since it comes highly recommended. But if you don't care, then you'll be wanting to skip to Episode 51, "Shut Up and Listen".

Regarding editing comics, it's not something he hasn't done before, as I said. Pic Related.

Also, the password for last night's comic () is "shallow".
Tonight's password () is "object". Patreanon is two-for-two tonight.

Pic Related is from 8 September 2017. Apparently Joyce gets over herself.

For someone who draws in such high resolution, he sure is terrible at line work. He missed a spot in Sarah's hair.

It would take two seconds to erase some jagged bits, like the ones on Joyce's face. But of course, the boobs have straight lines, while some of Sarah's skin is literally outside of her outline.

Oh good, Joe's a nihilist now. At least Joyce seems to think Joe's important.
Oh never mind, she just means he's always a threat and she can't let her guard down ever. What a shithead she's being

>following a careful reading of the scriptures, Joyce propositions Sarah after coming to the conclusion that rimjobs don't count

Probably because at the end of the day it all gets compressed to a quarter of that size, or less. Pic Related.

Between this and outright wishing not only that Ryan had died but that Amber had killed him, Joyce has irrevocably become Ruined Joyce at this point. If this doesn't lead anywhere, then there's really no point in seeing her as an upbeat and compassionate character of the Christian faith struggling to integrate herself into a secular society.

Her happiness is forever a facade.

Train Wreck Syndrome.

I've been interested in this since the hubbub about the trans shit happened, and from just seeing older strips and ongoing ones, Willis IS good at writing characters pretty consistently, and some have interesting pathos and each has their own kind of voice. It's really bizarre he gets so wrapped up in framing some characters as saintly or demonic for what are practically exchangeable circumstances and actions. It's infuriating at the worst and at best it's readable, and there really could be a diamond in this coal, if Willis weren't who he is with his biases and personality.

He should at least clean up their mouths. They're always obviously lumpy.

It started off okay, seems like it COULD be okay again, and we forever hold onto hope that it will be okay again. But we like to mock it in the meantime, because mocking things brings people together.

>we forever hold onto hope that it will be okay again

Speak for yourself, I think it's pretty obvious David's artistic talent went down the hill years ago. Current DoA is just the corpse when it hit rock bottom.

>there's really no point in seeing her as an upbeat and compassionate character of the Christian faith struggling to integrate herself into a secular society.

Are you kidding? She's everyone's evangelical Christian grandmother. She's watching the world go to shit because no one has any faith, and experiencing the utter frustration and tearful rage that only years of being patronized by people, even her own family, who just smile and nod whenever she tries to reach out to them can cause.

She's a living martyr and any happiness she has turns to ashes the instant her faith reminds her that it is all a lie, and everyone she knows is suffering worse than she is.

Haha, reading your green text, I was thinking of one of those really really handsome Filipino boys with toned muscles breakdancing

>People look at me as an object
Yeah. People do that everyday to anyone they don't know. If people don't have an emotional attachment, they don't care. People become "the blond with boobs" or "the dork who gives me my coffee." Not every in this world gives a shit about your well-being, but at the same time, not all those people are trying to rape you.

I don't fucking understand this logic. Joe makes a list of girls he finds hot or not. How is that thinking of them as objects?
Speaking from personal experience, I don't want to fuck an object. I want to fuck a human being.

God is not imaginary, he's a sad little man with a shrine to a crappy Transformers character, untreated epilepsy, and two children who will probably end up serial killers.

Because dudes in Willis-comics go from zero to rape lord if enough buttons get hit. But it's not Hallmark/Lifetime Movie when the Dave does this angle.

/r/ art of Rapin' Ryan doing some sick breaking. youtube.com/watch?v=f_Zk02FOvMU


Being sexually attracted to women turns them into objects and makes you wrong. That they actively encourage sexual attraction makes you even more wrong.

gotta say, this one almost is competently written.

I can believe that a near-rape victim would be pretty offended by 'the game'.

And it would hurt even more to find out that Joe, someone who helped her through said event, was the one playing it.

You don't understand. This is bad. Girls have never ever done this, they aren't judgemental like men.
It's rape on paper. RAPE ON PAPER!

Filipinos... Not even once. Theyre the white trash of Asians.

Even white trash has their Lu Anne's , Hank Hills, Bobbies, Peggie's , etc

The problem is that Joyce already knew about the list, a lot of people - including their entire gender studies class - knew about the list. This is something that really should have come up before. It also has to be seen in light of the fact that Joyce failed to report Ryan's attempted rape of her. It would have been a far more powerful moment if Joyce told him this prior to Ryan's stabbing.

Mmmm, no, still not invested...

Yknow Willis I bet if you just went ahead and released some Joyce and/or Dina porn you wouldn't have so many critiques because people like me will just take it and scram. It's the only reason I stick around, anyway.

Male sexuality is innately toxic.

>Be reading through some more Willis-friendly forums
>See fans discussing how Joyce isn't obligated to "fix" Joe and Joe should just figure it out on his own

Yknow I think this attitude above all others is one of the most naive, stupid, and downright inane thing I've observed about the type of nutcases who read Willy's shit and like it.

At it's base it can be defined simply as "life's not fair and I shouldn't do anything about it" and it will always prevent me from feeling any real sympathy or guilt for these people. Life isn't fair but that goes for just about fucking everyone and the only thing for it is to try to better your lot yourself.

What exactly do they expect the endgame to be with that sort of expectation? "If I just sit around and wait all the people who help make my life that much worse will wake up one morning and think "Oh dear my bad" and come lick my toes in forgiveness"? I mean sure, if they want to follow that train of thought they're welcome to, it might just cull the legitimately insane people when they realize shit isn't getting better and off themselves...

>Joe is analogous to a rapist

I really hate this idea that because there are terrible people out there, that anything that might fit into their worldview is just as bad as being one of those terrible people.

Joe is obviously doing stuff to an extreme degree (and I'm not really a fan), but it's totally possible to appreciate physical features in your mind's eye, fantasize, maybe even chat with your friends about it, but still treat the people with those physical features like people.

This honestly seems like a way better speech if this had been an attempted rape by a friend instead of an extremely opportunistic attempt at a party. An attempt by someone who went to the party with the purpose of drugging someone. Obviously that kind of person isn't going to engage with anyone's humanity, but you'd hope a friend or family member would. They often don't and that seems like it would really cause this pervasive fear she's experiencing.

Joe isn't just putting girls at arms length, it's every person in his life, as far as we know. It has put his connection with his best friend since childhood at risk. It's not healthy behaviour.

I think the idea is that his parents' divorce was so painful for him that that he doesn't like engaging emotionally with anyone.

EVERYTHING IS RAPE CULTURE!

>Obviously that kind of person isn't going to engage with anyone's humanity,
But Ryan-is-my-middle-name did engage withe Joyce's humanity with that bit about his father being a preacher and Joyce being a quiet religious girl seemed like a big part of the reason he targeted her.

Joe just made a harmless list ranking the physical appearance of ladies that he sees, with no pictures or names.

Sharing a fact about yourself and learning a basic fact about another person so you can get close enough to rape them is not actually engaging with their humanity.

He also lied to her about playing a board game because he figured it would be something she'd enjoy, but it was just a ploy to get her alone in a room. Enjoying boardgames is something about her as a person but the motive is very important.

That's different from actually being friends with a person and having emotional investment in their well-being. Or even wanting to know more about someone you'd like to have a physical relationship with.

I'm glad you have this view. Normally they ( in general, notcspecifically the commenters) get retaliated if they inform and get thrown back with "don't lecture me" or "you pussy" or "you're so holier than thou" or "You're way too sensitive" among the usual buzzwords. People should speak up if it's hurting them that much inside

Joyce you stomped on a guy on the first date for leering at another woman. One of my best friends was beaten to death.
Everything you do matters, Joyce. More than you know

HOW DOES THAT SHIT FEEL, JOYCE?

I have to wonder if some of Joyce's rage is steaming from the realization that she could have stopped Ryan months ago if she had reported it to the police, like Other Girls did afterwards.

This is all pretty much moot, as she'll be better soon anyway.

"...and that's why viewing people as sexual objects is bad. ANYWAY, about my next Slipshine project..."

>I got several pages penciled before realizing that it was going in a possibly non-porny and decidedly thoughtful direction for which Slipshine might not be the best vehicle? I dunno. It’s aggravating, because I actually was really liking what I was writing, but, like, there was barely even any nudity in it. It was just a character piece. It was, in fact, being kept very clean.

>And so I was like arrrgh and then put it aside to work on other things I knew I could actually get finished so I could have SOME productivity. I’ll be returning to it now because I need to finish something so this pornlord’s pornoverlords don’t get mad at me.

"having sexual thoughts about other people is bad, unless you're a woman".

Joyce herself did this plenty of times. C'mon now.

True but she didn't make a list online to be fair.

>you being a chauvinist is the same as being a rapist and IT'S TRIGGERING ME

Even if Joe just kept his list inside his mind, he would still be rape culture-ing internally.

but they're still gonna get jiggy right?

Not until Willis runs out of ideas.

Why would the focus be on Mary and her freak out and not on Billie and Ruth which, in theory, is the more interesting story anyway since they're primary characters and the audience is more likely to be invested in them?

Hence the filename.
I still can't get over how Willis thinks it's important that we know Walky is Billie's emergency contact. It only opens more questions than it intends to answers, since emergency contacts aren't just assigned to a person like study-buddies.

Maybe Willis thinks that antagonists need to be knocked down a peg more than protagonists need to excel over conflicts?

>pornlord

Jesus, how about you draw/write something that's at least mediocre before jacking yourself off over it.

I pray that the subconscious realizations of his extreme mediocrity plague his nightmares every night. I hope his sons join Westboro.

reminds me of guys like michael bay, who think they're hot shit and their projects are just incredible.

>Why would the focus be on Mary and her freak out and not on Billie and Ruth
Willis is like us, in that he thrives on hate.

So annoying.

He started calling himself that after making 2 comics, too. He made a strip about his future self going back and telling his teenage self that he was going to become an "internet pornlord".

>He made a strip about his future self going back and telling his teenage self that he was going to become an "internet pornlord".
Whaaaa?

I don't remember that one. Post the pic maybe?

Why, why does wiley ruin everything everytime.

Ask, and ye shall receive.

I hate how Willis uses the phrase "porn lord". Like I can understand it's mostly tongue in cheek but like... it still pisses me off.

If you ever catch a guy trying to rape a girl, cut his dick off. That's just common sense.

He uses it too much to the point that you believe he believes himself to be a "porn lord". He never changes it up to the point of absurdity, which is the best course of action you could take.

But Willis only uses "porn lord", and as a result it's associated in the sense that he feels himself to be a pornographic artist of the highest degree. Imagine if he had the gall to attempt a collaboration with Incase.

>imagining incase drawing joyce, mary, or billie

>Why, why does wiley ruin everything everytime
I'm pretty sure it's his intense hatred for Megaman and Dr. Light.

conversely,
>imagining willis drawing alfie or her mom

>Joyce, Mary, or Billie
>not Carla
You'd think they'd go directly for her.

fuck me, I meant carla, not mary.

I'd also love to see Nobody in Particular

You need a pencil shoved into you eye for posting this revisionist filth.

There's a lot of sexy webcomics that are significantly better that Willis.

I can only think he's on par with some of the female erotic cartoonists out there, and desperately attempts to show that he's sex-positive too.

>and desperately attempts to show that he's sex-positive too
Yeah, about that....

>He uses it too much to the point that you believe he believes himself to be a "porn lord".

This.

Coincidentally, InCase was the first name I thought of when I imagined who could be an actual porn lord. I suspect that if he tried to work with Willis, if the obvious brain tumour that gave him the idea didn't get him first, he'd probably end up bursting into flames.

This comic never fails to piss me off. It was actually the turning point for me in my following of Willis. He apes the style of an actually sex-positive comic, that despite it's flaws, still tries to inform people about different kinks without judging them for having them or not knowing what they are. Here, Mr. Sex Positive Pornlord spits in the face of everyone who doesn't know what a specific part of a specific type of sex toy is. He admits he never even whacked until 19 or so and cried afterwards because he thought his dead grandmother was watching. I guaran-fucking-tee you he didn't know what a rabbit was until years after that. Instead he pisses all over people who who have the same (or greater, just not in one area) knowledge of sex that he did.

Yeah, that's where I was heading. Emulating stuff like Oh Boy Sex Toy with his usual Smarter Than Thou approach, while simultaneously presenting himself as a Valuable Ally to the cause.

Independent lady cartoonists would eat Dave's lunch and realize he's just hanging around them to build his internet cred. At least I hope they would.

John isn't even a chauvinist though. He's a manwhore with Amazon Ratings.

Chauvinism implies a sense of superiority that Joe is clearly not invested in.

But that happened a decade ago.

Assbarfy still wouldn't know what that is if his wife didn't explain what that electric nose picker he found in her drawer was, and why it kept slapping his face instead of actually picking his nose.

That's how retarded shit becomes vernacular these days. People say and do things "ironically" until it's ironically sincere.

>why it kept slapping his face instead of actually picking his nose

Okay, I laughed. Both for the mental image of Willis getting slapped by the vibrator, and then storming over to his wife, dropping it on the table in front of her and shouting "This doesn't trim nose hairs at all!"

And she just stares.

she just called him a rapist

A decade is being generous. It's Walky! proper ended October 27th, 2004.

Amusingly my gf saw a pic of one of those vibrators once and wondered herself what exactly the knob on it was for. Gave me the chuckles, I tell you what.

Willis is a cunt, plain and simple, and this shit undoubtedly offended/insulted a huge amount of people for no fucking reason whatsoever.

>vagina-having-woman

i love this timeline

Within our lifetime we may actually have incredibly realistic futa