Was Roger really the bad guy?

Was Roger really the bad guy?
Or was it just Doug's perspective?

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Doug's perspective. Doug is beta as fuck.

>M'lady
*Tips Fedora

He was a standard childhood bully. Doug being one of the kids he targeted, he saw Roger as far more evil than he actually was. The bigger issue is how Doug would frequently fantasize about one-upping Roger, which is a rather unhealthy exercise and keeps him from understanding that Roger isn't evil (a trait that would likely continue into adulthood, whereas Roger would probably grow out of bullying by the time high school was over).

Mostly perspective, though Roger could be a bit of a dick, just not the villain always out to get Doug like he seemed to envision him.

If anything Roger seemed like he kind of wanted to be Doug's friend but didn't quite get that Doug was too much of a weenie for his "sup dickface how ya doin" style. He seemed like he was usually just kind of ribbing him but Doug perceived it as being much more hostile than Roger intended.

Roger was Doug's second best friend.

I've been looking for an animated episode of Nick Arcade with the original Nicktoons cast from the Nickelodeon cable launch. it was 1979, or close to it. Doug hadn't given birth to his younger sister Judy yet, but as we all know, he would within days of the episode. the games were green screen as was the style at the time. one was Sonic, that much I remember. there might have been a Resident Evil too, and of course Call of Duty.

Doug, as most celebrity guests were, was awful at the games. he constantly died and then would look at the camera and give a "Dear Journal" speech. somehow. he came in second to Ginger Foutley, which I was surprised to see considering she had killed herself a few years ago. beating a pregnant Doug was still an accomplishment, as Judy was also given a controller and their scores counted together.

since he lost, he was deleted from the show. as in, completely deleted. it was like when a film strip catches on fire. I was scared that he would be deleted from his own show as well, but luckily there were different animators and he did not disappear from Doug like he did Nick Arcade. it was quite haunting though, and I can still hear his screams when I close my eyes.

the animated Nick Arcades were hard to come by especially since most betamax players from that time were damaged in the nuclear war with the Soviet Union. still, I distinctly remember this episode and hope to see it again. I think Doug could have gotten more points in Sonic if he had used the spin dash.

Bear in mind that Roger has a lot of psychological issues surrounding his father abandoning him. He probably didn't realize how his attempts a good natured ribbing could be interpreted as bullying

Weren't there several episodes with the plot that Doug thought Roger was up to something, but them it only turned out that Roger was actually doing something nice all along? I think even in canon, Roger was a much better guy than Doug gave him credit for.

The times Roger does do something outright dickish it always seems like he's just trying to prank and doesn't realize he's going overboard, or that Doug doesn't really have the constitution for it.

Thank no that was just the first episode where Roger ended up bringing him to his own party.

This was a common issue for Doug, one that is actually incredibly unhealthy: every time someone does something he doesn't like, Doug immediately villainizes them in his mind, creating elaborate fantasies about "defeating" them. Roger and Mr. Bone were the most common targets, but even people he was normally on good terms with weren't exempt (such as Chalky in the episode where Chalky copies off Doug's test).

There is a lack of good Judy pics in this world.

>putting connies phat ass on judy

Why you do this?

>1280
Any chance you have a source?
If that's a tumblr image, there's likely a bigger version.

I keep imagining Roger crossdressing as Patti and making fun of Doug as Doug fucks him trying to pretend that he's Patti.

I was surprised when she lost the weight in the Disney version

I ship Roger and Doug.

two asses are better than one

Same as Porkchop being sentient or Patti being straight
All just subjective perceptions of a boy named Doug.

...

...

I always imagined that Skeeter was legitimately mentally retarded but Doug was too dumb to notice it and thinks he's just a cool and normal guy who just honks for no real reason.

>Skeeter was legitimately mentally retarded
user, there's an entire episode about how Skeeter had an amazing I.Q. and how Doug felt jealous of Skeeter because everyone was mooning over Skeeter because of his intelligence.

>Why you do this?
A phat ass is a great way for Judy to draw the audience's attention during her plays, as does a nice rack.

That was the resolution it came with when it was posted as an /aco/ delivery. as is this one. There's also variants:
the-collection.booru.org/index.php?page=post&s=list&tags=parent:62415
the-collection.booru.org/index.php?page=post&s=list&tags=parent:63555

Which I found kinda off-putting.
Intellectualism was frown upon and smart kids were bullied mercilessly without exceptions.
We had an underground reading club, and I wish I was joking.

>We had an underground reading club, and I wish I was joking.
NERD!

>Ganondorf and Link elementary school picture day

F A G
*kicks sand in your books*

I remember that there were several episodes (at least in Nick's Doug) that showed Roger to be a decent guy...just rough around the edges.

So was doug a thin skinned proto tumblr pussy who would feel attacked when Roger talked shit about him even though it may have just been him dicking around more than being mean?

Roger is a bit of a dick, but so is everyone. For every moment while growing up you felt like you were the Doug to someone else's Roger, you were the Roger to someone else's Doug.

of course not, the kid has rickets for pete's sake. He's just unfortunate.

Patti married Roger IRL. Jim was devastated when he found out

no fucking way, source?

I thought his premature balding made it obvious.

If I remember correctly, Roger still did some fucked up shit, even outside of Doug's perspective.

Such as? I'm not necessarily disagreeing, but I can't remember anything he did that was really bad. If you mean from the Disney era, then I didn't watch more than a few episodes of that.

So, did Doug go full /r9k/ sperg or did he become a twitter ally who desperately white knights in hopes of pussy?

Doug always seemed the type to go for the latter.

Srsly? He was clearly a retarded asshole who hated being trailer trash and not having a dad. Textbook bully shit.

He could definitely be a dick but he wasn't really a bad guy from what I recall (although its been awhile). I think he was genuinely cool (or got cooler) with Doug overtime (like I think one time he threw him a surprise party and such).

>or did he become a twitter ally who desperately white knights in hopes of pussy?
No.

Well, there was the time he framed Doug for a crime and almost got him expelled. I don't remember exactly what it was, but I remember the only reason Doug was forgiven was because Roger accidentally turned on the school's intercom while gloating about how he ruined his life.

More

Mooooooooooore

My fetish for unrequited female crushes demands it

Remember when Skeeter doesn't like High School becuase everyone smoked?

That was college, wasn't it? God, what an innocent time.

When will Doug find a boyfriend-free girl?

The infinitely-high boyfriend factor will prevent this, it's sad to say. But one day the Love Quest will end. Maybe after Doug becomes Dougina.

>she's an artist
>little porn of her

It's because all the art would be of her getting Blacked... or Blued, whatever black is in Doug.

I would plow the SHIT out of Connie and her big fat ass. Doug is a faggot with poor taste.

...

Patti didn't marry Roger IRL, but Jim got NTR'd pretty bad. He talked with her at their school reunion, and got invited over to her place for dinner. Apparently all his old feelings for her returned, only to open the door to be greeted by her husband.

Genuinely kek'd

This is Roger (female)

In an interview he states otherwise
>Roger was the one I wondered about. But when the Doug Movie came out we did the premiere in my hometown of Richmond, Virginia, I reached out to Roger and said, “I hope you don’t beat me up for the character.” He laughed and said, “We always had someone older who was a little further along, and little bit forceful.” He told me he had bullies in his life, which I’d never thought about. He’s a good guy.

whatiwannaknow.com/2013/02/jim-jinkins/

its always from someones perspective OP.

Doug is the precursor to being a dobson. Beware that fate Sup Forums

Oh come the fuck on. That's blatantly unfair.
Doug is better than Dobson.

Would you let Roger bully your dik?

Female Roger? Fuck. Yes.

Speaking of that episode...

Doug was delusional

Consider the following

To be fair, Chalky cheated off Doug's paper, and the faculty didn't even *try* asking him about it; that fuckhead Bone only accused Doug of the cheating.

Yeah, Roger stole some Yodeling trophy (god, can we have a thread about how Mr. Bone was a shitty, petty tyrant who needed to get fired, next?) and stuffed it in Doug's locker, which is apparently an annual theft, and Doug nearly got some stupidly complex detention punishment for it.

The only other time he *really* went too far was when he abandoned Doug and Skeeter in that shut down carnival ride in the Halloween episode. Skeeter and Doug wandered into the set, and nearly got really hurt thinking he'd met a similar fate.

Trying to get a pier expelled, and nearly leading other kids into an injury lawsuit is hugely dickish. I can kinda see why anybody would be justified in wanting nothing to do with Roger after that, but given that Roger also *returned* Doug's journal rather than chucking it in the trash and told Bone about his no good nephew (Again: Bone fucking sucks) and complied with the surprise party I'm inclined to agree Roger was just as incompetent at reading/opening up to people as Doug himself was.

Because of his home life and issues, Roger thinks that bullying Doug will make Doug fall in love with him. Roger's so closeted that he can't outright say anything, though.

Yeah, Roger had nothing agaisnt doug, otherwise he woudlnt let doug take care of his cat.

The Doug/Roger dynamic reminds me a lot of the Bob/Jimmy Pesto dynamic. Where Jimmy Pesto probably considers Bob his best friend but has consistently shown that he has no idea how to properly communicate with anyone let alone show anything that truly resembles affection. Meanwhile, Bob is extremely sensitive but can never detect when someone outside his tiny familial circle considers him a friend.

If Jimmy actually wanted to destroy Bob's life he could and he would. It's well within his ability. He thinks everything he does is funny ribbing. Even Bob's family can mostly pick up on that intention. But Bob would destroy Jimmy's life if he could, but he doesn't quite have the constitution to go through with it on the rare occasion he's granted the ability to do so.

Much like Bob, Doug is so jealous of Roger's seemingly unearned status and perceived success in the social pantheon, he never realizes that Roger is kind of as broken as he is when it comes to the whole basic human interaction thing. Which is why you get episodes like the time Roger explains why he is the way he is to Doug but all Doug can think about is how Roger is such a superior artist that he's able to render a gorgeous and highly detailed multi-color sunset using only blue housepaint.

TL;DR: Roger may be overly aggressive and misjudge situations but Doug could stand to be way less petty and perhaps actually talk to people instead of projecting all of his own insecurities upon every single one of them.

Doug is a bitch who didn't smash easy pussy in high school and writes in a goddamn diary of all things. Roger was actually his best friend since he was trying to toughen his bitch as up.

None of it worked though.

Uh... Not to be crass, but were we watching the same show? Jimmy took measures to deliberately end Bob's business during that episode where the landlord was contemplating ending the lease and Jimmy not only offered a deal to take competitor coupons--which took away most of Bob's customers that evening-- he *kept protesting* Fishoder's decision to renew the lease after Bob saved his restaurant.

The videogame episode too was extremely petty and a deliberate dick move.

The show is kind of flip flopping on it right now but yeah when it started out Jimmy was 100% an antagonist to Bob. The episode where Jimmy tried to buy the restaurant out what pretty frustrating because nobody else in the family cared that he was trying to take away their livelihood.

Season 1 through Season 3 Bob's Burgers have a lot of details and character bits that are ultimately retconned out by the end of Season 3. One of the biggest ones being that Big Bob is either retired or dead and the restaurant had been sold and turned into a diner owned by a couple of ladies. That's just to name an example.

Jimmy Pesto is for sure an overly aggressive dick, but the show has been slowly meandering towards the idea that Jimmy Pesto is just bad at being a person but doesn't actually hate Bob at all. With Bob being the only guy other than his sycophantic employee that he regularly interacts with he's the closest thing he has to a friend outside of the aforementioned employee

I'm pretty sure Big Bob never died and he sold the first spot he had his restaurant at when Bob was a kid (and not a teenager).

I mean there was the parade episode from just this past episode where Jimmy was being a dick just for the sake of it and none of it rang of him just being overly aggressively friendly with Bob.

The rivalry isn't imagined or in Bob's head. Linda just thinks it's stupid, and it really comes from how they handle their business and they can't stand how the other one does it. I reckon most of it comes from Jimmy who wanted to be a good cook AND a good businessman, and he couldn't be both, and he's frustrated that Bob is wasting his talent but still seemingly happy with where he is.

>from just this past episode
*season

What? Jimmy Pesto's still a huge jerk and wants to see Bob's business fail. Aside from trying to get his oldest son speech therapy, it's been repeatedly implied that Jimmy is a negligent and cold father. Whenever Bob fails, he revels in it.

Jimmy's had a few humanizing moments but he's still squarely an antagonistic asshole who hates Bob.

>Bob
>Good businessman
Bob is a good cook, but not a good businessman. His rich best friend was a good businessman.

Sup Forums is pro-Roger, what kind of answer do you expect?

Then I'll concede on the point. One of the reasons it rang true to me though is because a lot of the most important key staff worked on King of the Hill which mostly held consistent on character across the entire series but would often retcon away important details if it made for a funny or interesting ep. So it seemed to make sense from my perspective that Pesto is more insecure and unable to connect albeit in a much more traditionally masculine and aggressive way than Bob would readily read as potentially friendly.

But your examples serve as great counterpoints. So I'll step down off this one.

I didn't call Bob a good businessmen, I said Jimmy was one and he sacrificed good food for the sake of good imagery and marketing while Bob did the opposite. Jimmy knows Bob is a good cook and it's implied he's annoyed that Bob has that talent but isn't better utilizing it.

that is clearly a stove top hat sir.
also nice trips

That's correct. It's been shown that Bob undersells his food by a lot. He buys only the best ingredients for everything but doesn't have a price point higher than 5.95.
He also has a habit of being an impulse shopper that will frequently splurge on high ticket items that he never gets any use out of. Though that last bit is almost never his fault which is something I find highly frustrating.

Where did you find that picture of me, user?

Honestly I think if Bob could he would price his food higher, he's just aware the ambiance of his restaurant and its lack of reputation doesn't warrant it. It's a running theme (sort of) that he should be a lot more successful than he is. Of course it's not just people not knowing about the restaurant that's holding him back, like you said. Pro-Tiki Con-Tiki was a pretty frustrating episode to watch, even though I understood Bob's point of view.

Why did Disney fuck up Doug?

How many episodes are there where his family or customers cost him something he paid a lot of money on or somehow spoil his ingredients?
I can't think of a single other show that's just as frustrating as it is relaxing.

Did Roger really exist? Or was he just Doug's Tyler Durden all along?

It'd explain so much about Doug and Patty.

That would actually be pretty cool.

I miss when cartoons would go off-model for a gag.

That's true, but Doug misplaced the blame for the cheating incident. Yes, Chalky cheated, but like you said it was mostly the faculty at fault for refusing to look into the situation further since Chalky was on the football team (even though they're in elementary school and that shit hardly matters anyway), but all Doug could think about is how much of a bad guy Chalky was. I mean, it took him the entire episode to ask Chalky why the hell he did it in the first place.

Also yeah, if there ever was a proper villain in Doug, it would be Mr. Bone (though it's been suggested that he's really just a broken man who has zero control in damn near every other facet of his life - why are all school principals in cartoons severely fucked up individuals?).

Nowadays they go off model all the damn time.

>why are all school principals in cartoons severely fucked up individuals?
"Take authority figure, depict as unsuited for position" is a comedy trope that dates back at least to ancient Greece, and probably has been around since the first shmuck caveman had a grudge against the clan elder. Most cartoons are centered around children or adolescents, and the school principal as an authority figure for children is second only to their parents (who you will note are also usually depicted as unsuited for their position).

>single mom raised child
>becomes a faggot
Every. Single. Time.

Thing is he also stated in that article he may still had Doug end up with Patti, he left it up in the air.

>“It doesn’t happen because, really, most people don’t end up with their first love,” says Jinkins, who calls the encounter an “amazing story” that still deserves to be a movie. “But then again, maybe I do do it! There isn’t some rule! It’s not in the Bible. It’s just that most people don’t. I don’t know the answer yet. But I would predict that what I would do is make it where Patti is maybe not married, but in a serious relationship.”

Roger was really just a jerk. That's it. He never did anything truly bad.

Although, he did tell Doug that the only reason he didn't tell everyone about the secrets in his journal was because he couldn't read Doug's writing.

In the Nick series he was more of a jerk for no reason and acted like a typical bully, though he did have some nice moments here and there. In the Disney series he more or less stopped giving a fuck about Doug because he was busy getting into his own shenanigans now that he was rich.

He had a crush on Judy though.

Eh, while it isn't the best way to deal with people, fantasizing about defeating is fairly harmless as long as you don't go out and try to make those fantasies a reality. In most cases, Doug would keep going about life as normal, and either happen upon something that reveals his perception was greatly mistaken about the person or situation, or confront it with some sensibility.

Still though, it was worrying how many times he'd drift off into lala-land WHILE surrounded by people.

I remember when it was revealed that he has some amazing artistic talent.

You're right. He only has himself to blame for getting cucked IRL, and not properly moving on.

>He had a crush on Judy though.
>couldn't get with his crush
>settles for his crush's sister