Gentlemen, how can the Western comic industry reach a new renaissance?

Gentlemen, how can the Western comic industry reach a new renaissance?

storify.com/debaoki/what-does-japanese-anime-manga-deliver-that-us-pop

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i'm not gonna read your article "user"

That was fucking awful and while it touched on a few pertaining subjects, the rest of it was a pile of hot steaming rubbish that failed to capture both American comics and Japanese comics.

Care to explain?

Easy by using the old japanese system
By catering to your old consumer base instead of pandering to new ones with shitty gimmicks

Big two doesn't equal the entire industry/medium

Let's be honest here; in terms of issues sold/market share, it is the industry in North America.

>inb4 the same trite argument that American comics should go back to newsprint and publish phonebook anthologies without understanding why that works in Japan and would flop massively here.

>The huge variety of stories that don't feel like they're edited by soulless executives and market test results.
>We don't doubt/dispute that. But their editors results are more interesting. The fact that there's a manga called My Girlfriend is a T-Rex.
>i've been to a few image expos when they announced titles and felt the same way. even the cooking comic was grim (and unappetizing)
>Im referring to starve, the cooking comic drawn in burrito diarrhea brown tones
>If you had to read either Starve and Food Wars, which would you choose? The one that actually makes you hungry, dammit. Guess which one
>a manga reader can go out and pick from literal thousands of long running complete gay romance stories, and you want $4 for 1 gay character?
>anyway My Hero Academia is read by more people in America than Batman is, bye
>As well it should. My Hero Academia is way more fun than Batman. Just sayin'.

Savage

>Big two doesn't equal the entire industry/medium
it is the industry

to me personally one of the most off putting things is how fucking retarded it is to read some of these comics.

Like you'll be reading green lantern and you get to GL7 and suddenly it's like "Oh you want to know what happens next? better read Emerald Warriors 3-5" So you read that, then it's back to GL8-9 only to then read Green Lantern Corps 2-4 which is an entirely different comic before heading back to emerald warriors 6 and 7 then finally wrapping it up with green lantern 10 through 12.

Also skipping any of these issues means giant plot points get resolved off panel, so you bounce around 3 different comics to get one story.

Fuck everything to do with that. At least with a manga it's like, here this is volume 1, next comes 2 and so on until the series is fucking done. There's no author changes and no book changes until the story is fucking done. Which is part of why I loved things like say, transmetropolitan, just a massive start to finish story. If comics want me to read them more, actually tell a full fucking story before trying to get me to read some other comic somewhere.

And that's the sad part

>My Girlfriend is a T-Rex

That's a really good manga actually. We need more monster girl manga in general. Monster Musume was a good start but not enough.

Nice, I can't wait to see your imperialist capeshit hegemony getting fucked.

>Thinking every Western comic out there is cape

>Like you'll be reading green lantern and you get to GL7 and suddenly it's like "Oh you want to know what happens next? better read Emerald Warriors 3-5" So you read that, then it's back to GL8-9 only to then read Green Lantern Corps 2-4 which is an entirely different comic before heading back to emerald warriors 6 and 7 then finally wrapping it up with green lantern 10 through 12.

This hasn't been a thing since the '90s.

You know I have to question that first one because from what I know of Dragon Ball Toriyama was the editors bitch

>defending japanese editors
What a fucking retard
Jap editors do more harm than good

Didn't read the article but...

Shared universe with frequent crossovers

Constant retcons

Constant mega events

Heavy emphasis on serialization while simultaneously refusing to really change anything long term, and keeping the status quo

Diehard fans love a lot of these things but it alienates casual and potential new readers.

The editor was for the best though
Kubo couldn't communicate with his editor so things went horribly wrong

The western comic industry is in a pretty good state, it is the American comic market which is in a shit state. Mostly because you had to isolate your comics in dusty shops owned by morons. Outside of America, you can easily stumble across comics casually which is why it is doing so much better.

sounds like nu/a/ to be honest

It's either cape or degenarate garbage about alternate lifestyles and some other fabricated american sentimentalist first world bullshit.

>listening or linking to Deb "alt-right" Aoki

It might as well be. You go to a comic shop and it's capes, capes capes, and then a corner where there's Mike Mignola, 2000AD and Tintin.

>The huge variety of stories that don't feel like they're edited by soulless executives and market test results.
It's kinda ironic when Japanese market doesn't allow anything that deviates from their common tropes.

Finally the OEL manga rises

I feel like DC is doing a lot to address those issues right now but they aren't perfect.

what does this topic have to do with Sup Forums?

Literally nothing

We just had New 52 and Post Crisis Superman merging their histories

>literally 90% of the answer are BECAUSE IT'S DIVERSE/SJW bullshit

women ruin everything

everything

>Deb "alt-right" Aoki
what?

They can't ruin anime/manga.
Western agenda crap is here and Japan is over there

>The huge variety of stories that don't feel like they're edited by soulless executives and market test results
wut? a lot of original stories are axed because they deviate and dont follow the standard format

As a cartoonfag that rarely read comics apart from the occasional popular indie ones and webcomics, I can tell you why I don't personally read them:

Because they're dumb. Reading a story of a character that's been going on for 50 to 70 year with no real promise of a satisfying end, constant retcons and a whole bunch of parallels and crossovers to other comics which you have to read to make sense of all the clusterfuck is stupid. Manga's have a habit of milking their shit too but atleast A) They're consistent and straight forward with their storylines; no retcons, no re-imaginings, no crossovers B) They're far more options available in the market, some even being more self contained and shortened and C)You can read that shit for free online.

I know having a none comicfag who doesn't have as much of an understanding of the industry as someone who does actually read and care for the medium has a lower say in these discussions, and for good reason, but since the whole topic is about why not as many people enjoy comics or downright put off by it I feel my two cents might come some weight in this sort of topic.

Centaur's worries is one of my favorites manga and has an airing anime right now, you should check it

That depends on the comic shop. There are three nearby here, and one is mostly indies/local/small press with a smaller section of capes, the other is pretty much a Big 2 store with a half-assed spattering of Image, and the third is a big mix of the two, with huge sections for capes and non-capes alike.

Also, Western =/= US. Comics in the US are dominated by Big 2, no doubt about that, but the Euro scene is much more varied.

I think they meant genre/presentation/audience diversity user
Manga has sports titles that actually go in depth about sports

start making a variety anthology magazines (think Shonen Jump, 2000 AD, Spirou) that are available in grocery/bookstores (like archie comics), from a variety of companies, featuring a variety of genres, targeting a variety of age groups

>C)You can read that shit for free online.
Readcomiconline's getting more well known
I told a librarian about Cerebus and she googled it immediately
Found a Readcomiconline link right away and she thought Dave already kicked the bucket after I told her that it'd go public domain when he dies

>Euro scene is much more varied
Varied, yes. You get to choose either that one of those endless Spirou rip-offs, or delve into some high fantasy sci-fi bullcrap which is even exhausting to look into the cover art.

They are axe because they arent popular or perform worst than a new series..

They're trying.

Look at "Anime Feminists" and cunts taking over Crunchyroll and Funimation.

There was some drama recently about getting someone who drew porn kicked out of an artist alley at an convention (and wanting to get Fakku kicked out too)

Women literally ruin everything. I can't think of ONE THING an increase of women hasn't ruined. It hurts so much because I'm a woman

>more asians
>more women
>gays
>"my daughter is only interested in stories about gay women"
Women ruin everything.

>Diverse = Gender/racial/minority diversity
They mean genre diversity you literal retard. As in, 75% of the industry isn't just capeshit with the same characters.

You can make Iron Man black and a woman but that doesn't change the fact that it's still Iron Man and with it all the generic stories, same villains, overuse of crossovers and it's ineviteble retcon and re-imagining.

That...actually is a good point. The west as a whole isn't suffering comic-wise. It's America.

It IS ironic. Yet Food Wars being a shounen manga about food is somehow more appealing than Starve, despite the similar premise.

Ive heard about this but only vaguely. I.E. I've seen the bits where they compare their vagina's.

I might check it out though if it's legitimately good.

>"my daughter is only interested in stories about gay women"
There's nothing wrong with yurifaggotry.

Manga is not that tight on copyright so we have hundreds of free manga and translation sites while comics are pretty tough on that shit which makes manga and anime more accessable. I mean a lot of people in my country have read a lot of manga and watched anime but I know for a fact that non of them ever bought the stuff

>Crunchyroll and Funimation.
It's not like they're going to have an actual impact on what the writers/executives put in
The Japanese domestic audience wants none of that crap

Not really. You still see the shelves mostly cover the Big Two.

Manga artists are also the writers and are paid absolute shit compared to american counterparts.
If we went the japanese route, cutting costs by going black and white, having the artists be the writers too, releasing them in 10 dollar collections of multiple series, instead of 4 bucks a piece, we might get more subscribers, but the demand on the artists would be intense, the pay would be little and they'd leave the market for better paying jobs.

Mangaka are celebrities in japan, so the harsh conditions and low pay is made up for by the adoration of the public.

In the US, only stan lee pulls that kind of adoration anymore. No one will double their work and cut their pay for less fame than a c list anime voice actor

and why do you think they are not popular in the first place?
protip: its the same reason that made this manga very popular

>There was some drama recently about getting someone who drew porn kicked out of an artist alley at an convention (and wanting to get Fakku kicked out too)
Nearly more than half of Doujin artists in Japan are women. It's just that some people have not much better to do with their own lives. And that some people do dwell on west.

The problem is that CrunchyRoll pretty much killed fansubbing.

Hell, a lot of the diehards are fed up too.

We said that about Japanese video games.

Look at video games.

You get them taking out shit, there was some interview with a video game director that they don't put in things because they know it will upset the western feminists.

Yeah, the fact that comic books never end is another thing that's off putting about them.

I don't mind a long story, but eventually there should be an ending. Maybe i they just let different writers write their own complete story for a character with a beginning middle and end it would be better.

>It hurts so much because I'm a woman

Sure you are.

>Nearly more than half of Doujin artists in Japan are women
dont forget that some of them are actual little girls

>There was some drama recently about getting someone who drew porn kicked out of an artist alley at an convention
Really? Nearly every comic artist has drew or been drawing porn in their lives.

Speaking as someone who loves both Sup Forums and Sup Forums material, it's no surprise manga is way more popular than comics by the simple fact that they are waaaaaay easier to get into

>Want to start reading a series? Start by the first issue.
>Which first issue? The only fucking first issue there is.
>Worried about retcons to your favorite series? Shit is essentially nonexistant in manga.
>Do you have to read/buy an issue of another series you absolutely don't care about because the plotline you were reading just gets continued in another comicbook? Fuck no.
>Am i going to have to go back and read 60 years of issues? Are you reading fucking Doraemon? Then no.

Those are just some of the points.
Not even mentioning all the diversity in manga titles there is.

>and why do you think they are not popular in the first place?
>protip: its the same reason that made this manga very popular
Because elevens have massive shit taste?

This the 3rd most popular manga in the same magazine.

If you can stand yuri, politic stuff and even just plain bizarre stories then the manga would be for you

except for literally everything
Yuri Cuckoldry is one thing I hope we leave in japan

For pay? That's a bit of a myth.
Most artists have drawn something someone would describe as pornographic, yes, but very few of them actually commercially draw porn.
The one doing the current aquaman is one of the few current ones i know.
A lot of them get real close though.

Manga goes on for fucking ever though.

The difference between American comics and manga should be: American publishers tell writers to wrap shit the fuck up, and manga just goes on hiatus.

Literally I was going through some manga I read when I was fucking 12 and I decided to look it up 10 years later and that shit is STILL fucking going.

It's not even a fucking popular series.

And this is a problem because...

Realistically they're not going to cut costs that much. All you'd really do is not have to pay colorists, between the size of the comic market and the cost of paper you're not going to save that much by switching from magazine gloss to newsprint.

Yeah but most of them aren't proud of it.

The artist in question was unapologetically a porn artist. I can't remember their name, it was some con that Fakku was sponsoring.

whats the most popular?

Aren't the most successful mangaka artists rich?
I know One Piece eclipses the entire western comic industry

>I know One Piece eclipses the entire western comic industry
20 million is that much

American comics are almost unrelatable unless you're American or like thanksgiving and shit. Japanese comics have a much bigger diversity and liberty in portraying the human nature. That's why people can relate to themselves much easier than superheroes.

>whats the most popular?
As far as I know the most popular manga in SJ is One Piece. By like a metric fuckton

...

>My Hero Academia is way more fun than Batman.
This is true.

Videogames are doing fine, i swear Sup Forums trying to play as a victim on medium that are doing worse is ridiculous

>American comics are almost unrelatable unless you're American
yes because golden week is such a well beloved worldwide tradition that everyone can relate

Can't deny that shit like that is going on though. Maybe it's small now, but where does it end?

Remember paid mods?

>unapologetically a porn artist
I don't think being a porn artist should be an apologetic issue unless you're a Polyle or Shadman-tier pervert.

youtube.com/watch?v=XRkrascT_iM

I'm genuinely surprised since that fucking thing has around 900 fucking issues and probably isn't even halfway done.

It might be more straightfoward then most cape comics but how the hell are people still invested?

They've already got their Harry Potter, it's called Saga.

it was fun

Bethesda are idiots and i'm sure that shit gonna flop again or only stay in consoleand if that happend is because console-only players are idiots

What are some good manga I should be reading? Current or not, preferably non-shōnen but anything goes.

It's fun, visually appealing, and well written

Not gonna read this garbage clickbait but the problem with comics is purely format and audience.

Marvel and DC can't experiment too much because their business is extremely precarious. They simply can't afford to lose any of their traditional customers.

Sales of other publishers have been going way up because the way they're formatted (self contained, affordable paperbacks) makes them very accessible.

Marvel/DC have been doing everything they can to expand into other audiences and genres but the problem is that the people who buy those non-capes aren't interested in capes at all, yet at the same time growth of non-capes is very slow because of how heavily associated with capes the medium is.

The whole business needs a very radical change but they can only get there through very small changes over a long period of time, so it's going to be years, maybe even decades until the market will have reached the kind of expansion it's in dire need of.

English dubs are slowly becoming corrupted by SJWshit. There's a clip on youtube from Prison School where one of the girls accuses Shingo of being a gamergator.

>was
what happened?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>watching the dub

>I'm genuinely surprised since that fucking thing has around 900 fucking issues and probably isn't even halfway done.
You are like a little baby watch this
reminder that only a year has passed in its time

Its all according to keikaku
>note: keikaku means plan

Being long =/= boring.

Sure but after 900 issue's doesn't that get tiring? how does it manage to do that much stuff without it ever feel like padding?

>japanese comics
>relatable
What the actual fuck are you saying.
Manga characters are as unrelatable or even more so than American comics, unless they take place somewhere that isn't Japan.

Yeah dude, I totally celebrate tanabata.
Well of course I eat takoyaki at least once a week.
I absolutely remember my weeklong school festivals
How can I forget my times in the archery club.
I totally relate to being an autist who passes out when a woman touches his hand

slowly succumbing to shounen-itis

>Implying japanese comics aren't full of weird japanese cultural shit

Bowing, honorifics, hot springs, characters being deathly afraid of sex.

Yeah, everyone can relate to this stuff.

The main things Japanese comics have over American comics is something that American comics will never be able to replicate due to the structure of their production process. I mean, you see comic book artists killing themselves to deliver 20 pages per week? Do you see publishers releasing a weekly 500 page comic compilation for roughly 3-4 bucks? Nope.

I only started reading One Piece for the first time last year. I had days off where I read nothing but that, it was THAT good.