The Defenders Questions Thread

Maybe I just need to go back and re-watch this shit, but I never got a good idea of the scope or the stakes involved.

1. What the fuck was The Black Sky? Even in season 1 of Daredevil, it was built up to be this kind of anti-Christ figure that The Hand was obsessed with. Then it turned to be Elektra and only Sigourney Weaver really gave a shit about her. What was the Black Sky's purpose?

2. What did Elektra want, in the end? It looked like she was going to use the Hand to her own ends, but maybe she was just working deep cover? It seemed to me she just went full heel and wanted Matt to join "the dark side" but I'm praying it wasn't that retarded.

3. What was The Hand's end game? They kept talking about New York being destroyed, but it seemed like it was just an incidental thing to them. They weren't culling the population on purpose or fulfilling some dark purpose; they were digging in New York to harvest dragon bones... so they could keep living? Was this part of the plan to get to K'un L'un or not?

4. Why exactly did they want to go to K'un L'un? They got kicked out for practicing dark arts shit, but toward the end of the series, it seemed like they (except Sigourney) were okay with dying as long as they could do it in K'un L'un. Did they just miss their home? Was this whole show an E.T.: The Extraterrestrial plot?

Other urls found in this thread:

ew.com/tv/2017/08/18/marvel-the-defenders-finale-spoilers/
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

>What the fuck was The Black Sky?
Nobody knows, its vague bullshit that basically boils down to someone really good at killing people and skilled in every weapon I guess
>What did Elektra want?
She didnt even know. I think Harold's resurrection in Iron Fist stated that coming back fucks with your brain and makes you irrational. So she went from mindless zombie, to half self aware nutjob, to normal
>What was The Hands endgame?
They wanted to dig up the dragon bones to restore their immortality since it was wearing off. However to get to them, the massive dig put NY at risk and would create earthquakes. They were willing to sink the city to get the substance.
>Why did they want to go back to Kun Lun?
Homesick? It was their original home, and it was a paradise they havent seen in thousands of years. Plus Madame Gao said that they just wanted to live long enough to see it again, and pretty much retire there until the immortality faded again. Remember the portal only opens every few years

Long story short, The Hand plots were shit and changed with each show

it's a sandnigger god reincarnation

More important: who was the scarred hunk from Daredevil S1 ?
> "what will happen when the door opens?"
what fucking door?

>scarred hunk

I'm sorry, I don't remember this guy. What are you talking about?

Thank you. I just thought there would be more at stake, I guess. New York City was going to be destroyed because of poor mining negligence. I just thought it was building up to some demonic shit, like how the Hand operates in the comics.

Maybe he's talking about the guy with Stick?

Don't really remember any scarred guy, but he's the only one I can think of that someone might ask about.

It was Stone, from the Frank Miller comics. I guess they either forgot about him or are saving him for something down the road. The Hand didn't really work in these shows; I hope we've seen the last of them. Kingpin's presence has been sorely missed since DD S1 and Killgrave is dead...dunno who they go to as villains for the next team up. Would be cool to actually have villains do a team-up to take down the good guys. Keep waiting for that to happen in the movies, too

We asking questions in this thread? Ok cool.

Why was Danny set up to be The Chosen One against the hand when he did jack shit against them? He fucking opened up the gate for god's sake!

How did Shao Lao get to New York?
I think the door is what Danny opened

He probably left without fully completing his Iron Fist training.
Meta reason: Because libtards were still mad with Iron Fist and they had to "punish" the character.

After finding out the motivations or rather end goal of the hand the whole iron fist role seems kinda stupid desu

she is sexy af

>1. What the fuck was The Black Sky?

Like said, just vague bullshit that means someone is dangerous. A good way to describe it is perhaps an Immortal Weapon born in our world instead of Kunlun.

>2. What did Elektra want, in the end?

Power. Immortality. Mostly, she just wanted Matt back, I think.

>3. What was The Hand's end game?

Again, immortality. Turning the whole of New York into a sinkhole would've been purely incidental, but it was also an acknowledgement of how far the Hand was willing to go to get those bones (Alexandra also threatened a city wide massacre if Danny didn't come willingly).

>4. Why exactly did they want to go to K'un L'un?

Again, what said. They just wanted to go home. On paper, it's lame as fuck, but if I spent a couple millennia exiled from my homeland with nothing to show for it, I'd probably make that a priority, too.

> why did the NYC never asked SHIELD for help?
> What was Sygourney's character power? Because if it was leadership, hers was shit.

SHIELD is currently in space right now

>.dunno who they go to as villains for the next team up.

MASTER KHAN, THE IMMORTAL WIZARD OF HALWAN.

Because just imagine the hamfisted social commentary they could jam in with a Middle Eastern dictator running roughshod over Diplomatic Immunity laws.

>1. What the fuck was The Black Sky?
Apparently just someone that was kind of tough to fight. It was bullshit desu
>2. What did Elektra want, in the end?
Very vague notion of power and immortally but then at the end they hinted that she wanted Matt to die with her so she wouldn't have to be in the void alone.
>3. What was The Hand's end game?
The key to immortally is dragon bones. Most likely they use it along with all the blood they collected in season 3 of Daredevil
>4. Why exactly did they want to go to K'un L'un?
There's an immortal dragon that dies and comes back as an egg that then grows up into another dragon over and over. Its would be an infinite source of dragon bones

If both Madam Gao and Nobu were park of The Hand all along why were they working as two separate factions in Daredevil S1? Why did Gao betray Nobu's location to Daredevil in S2? Why didn't Alexandra just deal with Fisk personally? Fuck, why did The Hand even need to work with Fisk if they could have just taken over his operation?

Bakuto's reveal makes even less sense, if he's True Hand all along why did he go through all that effort to capture Gao, kill Harold and teach Danny new Chi techniques?

I legit forgot who Bakuto was for a moment and kept forgetting who the jap hand member was suppose to be. Literally the only good hand member was fucking Gao

ew.com/tv/2017/08/18/marvel-the-defenders-finale-spoilers/

From what it looks like, the showrunners really don't talk to each other and there were no solid plans for the Hand. Instead, they just made it up as they went along.

God, it sucks that they were presented comic accurate in the DD seasons and then suddenly they became a bunch of goons with no real Asian semblance. God, what a fucking shitty way to end that plotline. We don't even find out about the kids.

That wasnt Shao Lao, it was another dragon. Shao Loa is unique and native to Kun Lun, hence the title "Shao Loa the Undying" who has to get punched in the heart every generation

How Danny became the IronFist is the biggest mystery of these shows. He's not even a better fighter than Matt.

The kids were being used to harvest blood. But yeah from the looks of things, DD season 1 was setting them up to be so much more than we got in Defenders. There were actual layers to their purpose in New York other than "dragon bones lol"

>The kids were being used to harvest blood.
Did they say that? That's pretty morbid for something never brought up.

>>Make the finale of Luke Cage a big deal that he was going to jail.
>>Gets out in the first minutes of his screen time.

So, god, damn, disappointing.

The power levels in this shit are all fucked up. They made the strongest look like trash and Daredevil pretty much is blind MCU Cap

No it wasn't Danny said they desecrated Shao Lao.

Because Shao Lao is basically the Jesus of dragons, user. They tarnished his name by desecrating a tomb of a sacred beast almost extinct. What part of "Shao Lao The Undying" dont you understand? Hes still back in Kun Lun

Right, I'm asking why Shao Lao died underneath New York before. When did that happen? Could that have been the Iron Fist in the footage we saw?

Again, THAT SKELETON WASNT SHAO LAO. Madame Gao even said dragons used to be everywhere, that was one of them. Different dragon obviously, because that one is dead and has been under NY for god knows how long

I was so disappointed when he showed back up. Audibly groaned. Him being all young and non-threatening works okay when he isn't the fucking "secretive fifth member" of an eons old zombie Ninja criminal organization. The way he talked and acted really bugged me, too, like he was trying to be threatening and mystical and villainous, but really just came off like he was young and thought he was more important than he was.

That's even worse than what I thought was happening

>If both Madam Gao and Nobu were park of The Hand all along why were they working as two separate factions in Daredevil S1
In order to not be involved in a criminal gang war over territory they played along with Fisk in order to maintain their own goals in secret.

>Why did Gao betray Nobu's location to Daredevil in S2?
when did that happen? It might have just been to set them up in order to get Elektra.

Man I really liked Stick.

I've never read any Daredevil comics before. Does he have the power to come back?

I feel like he has the power to come back and be like "I wasn't dead. she missed my heart by inches and I used a meditation technique to appear dead" and have it not really piss off anyone to much. My only real problem with Stick was that he pretty much never used a stick to fight. just a sword that sheaths into his back and through his shirt.

>HEDINDUNUFFIN
Or maybe they decided to release him after he broke everyone's hands by standing still. Prison costs would inflate to +∞ .

Black sky should have probably been the ultimate assassin, it turns out it was a bluff.
They don't even explain why BLACK and why SKY.

Stick was goat, but his actor is 76 years old! They probably felt they should write him out in the fight against the Hand, and to avoid having him die prematurely.

>Why did Gao betray Nobu's location to Daredevil in S2?

That didn't happen, Gao told Daredevil only about that drug merchant colonel, and he wasn't a part of Hand.

>If both Madam Gao and Nobu were park of The Hand all along why were they working as two separate factions in Daredevil S1? Why did Gao betray Nobu's location to Daredevil in S2?
While the ultimate goal of the Hand was dragon bones/oil, each Finger/Faction operated independently with their own agendas. Alexandra even said that they occasionally tried to assassinate each other.

Why didn't Alexandra just deal with Fisk personally?
I guess she couldn't do everything by herself. Or maybe she was getting Space AIDS/Naughty Parts Cancer from a Kree, resulting in her predicament in Defenders S1.

Fuck, why did The Hand even need to work with Fisk if they could have just taken over his operation?
Well, he had to be out of the way for them to take over.

I think it was just convenient for them for Fisk to lead that operation. I mean, if that conspiracy was uncovered, which it did, Fisk would look like the head of it. Meanwhile they, the real conspiracy, would be safe. And really, they didn't want anything besides the property, which Fisk got them in return for their aid.

It was my understanding that The Hand wanted to get back to Kun Lun because there were more dragon bones there. I mean, that's where Danny got the fist, right?

>Did they say that?
We had multiple scenes of The Hand harvesting their blood. They didn't need to say it.

The black sky is a vessel that they dip in their resurrection goop and perform some kind of mystic ceremony, it increases their strength, speed and resistance past human levels, additionally it makes them proficient in combat. It's the hand's quick fix version of Iron fist.

Elektra gained a vague sense of self throughout the series and wanted to live forever. Matt confused her because she loved him but also he was getting in the way of her live forever thing.

The hand lived forever, however they were running low on resurrection goop, they were never about world domination, they already basically did that, they just wanted more dragon juice and the ability to take over the magic city. It wasn't just about going home, it was about replacing the elders that exiled them.

The Source of dannys powers is the same as the immortality substance, dragon tissue. Danny got his powers by killing Shao lo the undying/plunging his hand into its molten heart. Shao lo presumably has his phoenix like status and always regerenates. So they probably wanted to go back not just from sheer nostalgia, but to get access to an infinite supply of dragon tissue (shao lao). But there's so much they never say flat out, and the whole storyline of the hand is so incompetently written because each show seems to have its own idea of what the hand is or what it wants, without any greater coordination.

Sup Forums could bullshit up a better story than what we got.

the hand wants to wipe out new york so they can claim the life force of all the inhabitants to power their own immortality and resurrection magic, while black sky acts as the conduit.
a previous iron fist took some macguffin they needed years ago, hid it at the bottom of the pit and locked it so only another iron fist could open it
the chaste were the only ones who knew the location, it was their job to protect it and destroy any potential black sky's before the hand got to them. the hand captured one of the chaste leaders and broke them, giving up all the secrets of the chaste.

I get the sense that for like 99% of their time in the world, The Hand concerned themselves with all of these other activities in pursuit of temporal power. Their fixation on these dragon bones is a very recent, very temporary situation born out of their having recently realized their immortality was running out. If the show had taken place in the 1990s or 1960s or whatever, the acquisition of dragon bones would likely have been the furthest thing from their minds since at that time their immortality would have seemed to have been both permanent and secure.

Basically, this show takes place at the one moment where their broad interests narrow down into a laser-like focus on this single goal.

In Daredevil the hand seems to want the black sky and general power

In ironfist the hand wants the Ironfist.

In Defenders we figure out that the black sky is their version of the Iron Fist, but because they used all their dragon tissue they desperately need to return home because this is the first time they may actually be in danger. They want the Ironfist to open the door and allow them to return, get more dragon juice, and take over their home.

That sort of compromise is the cost of these crossovers. I remember the director of Ant Man talking about how he was kind of aggravated that the introduction of Giant Man took place in a Captain America movie and they lost the chance to have that take place in the second Ant Man film.

>But then, do we know where the city of K’un-Lun went? A part of me thought that was Shou-Lao only because K’un-Lun disappeared, and New York did have a conveniently huge hole in the middle of it.
That’s a question for the Iron Fist showrunner, not me. Honestly, I don’t know where they’re going with that.


Jesus christ, what a team of professionals

>but really just came off like he was young and thought he was more important than he was

And then the simple explanation for why the fingers vary in age so drastically only makes him look the worst; his dumb ass died young before his first resurrection.

>They wanted to dig up the dragon bones to restore their immortality since it was wearing off. However to get to them, the massive dig put NY at risk and would create earthquakes. They were willing to sink the city to get the substance.
Thing is, this makes no fucking sense.

Presumably they own Midland Circle as well as mineral rights to anything underneath the land

No shady shit was necessary. Get some engineers to build a scaffolding around the dragon bones before you extract them. Now no one is the wiser.

I'll handle this everyone.

Here you go, OP.

1. Bad writing.
2. Bad writing.
3. Bad writing.
4. Bad writing.

That's not really how mineral rights work. Even if you have the mineral rights, you can't just start digging in the middle of a city. there are zoning issues, ecological studies, blah blah blah.

>No shady shit was necessary. Get some engineers to build a scaffolding around the dragon bones before you extract them. Now no one is the wiser.

that was the original plan but the main chick was dying and wasted the last of her not-dying-juice on elektra, so they decided fuck the stealth shit lets just go full bore.

Seriously, "I'm the only one who can defeat The Hand... unless they get sick. Or someone stabs them. Or..."

Also hey Danny maybe step back a bit from that HUGE FUCKING WALL they want you to open. Maybe don't fight right next to it?

If Hand is so influential, secretive and powerful, how come they just don't have police higher-ups in their pocket to sic non-corrupt on Defenders?
Would've been more interesting to watch them deal with people who just follow the orders and don't know the full story rather than flat out bad guy ninjas. Besides, the latter can always come for the kill when cops and superheroes tire each other out.

*non-corrupt SWAT teams
How did I lose that part? I clearly remember typing it out. I need to stop editing my posts every 5 seconds without paying attention to what I end up saying.

Well technically SHIELD was disbanded, again, the stinger showed them in space

Layers? They were running a heroin ring in order to... buy real estate.
That they could already afford.
From a guy who loved his city so much that he planned to... make money selling people. Cause his dad was a dick.

Seriously like I love the actor who played him but Fisk was written so poorly I don't know why he became a favorite here. I can understand it on red-"the joker was actually right"-dit but I expected more from you guys. Which was really dumb of me obviously.

The Hand being super disappointing is beating a dead horse at this point but they really talked the Japanese one up and he ended up being lamer than Nobu.

I mean they are all different ages, I doubt they tried to synchronize their death rates or anything. For all we know Bokuto stayed alive the longest in his last life, thus being the youngest (besides the jap maybe?) in the new one.

but none of them were FROM k'un L'un except maybe Gao. Everyone else was a traveling merchant/wiseman/mystic/whatever that came to the city.

Why didn't Spider-Man just crash an airplane into the building?

>Replace an entire office of ConEd with zombie ninjas
>They are more effective

now that's some comic book shit.

Ok, here's my question for defenders.

Why was everyone fucking up in arms about "whitewashing" Iron Fist (which is bullshit) but no one is up in arms the leader of a secret undead asian influenced ninja cult is Sigorny fucking weaver?

Because it's a woman and women get special treatment.
Better question: how come no one complained that the first time those shows had a main female antagonist (Mariah doesn't count, Stokes and Diamondback were the main antagonists) she was fucking retarded and useless?

It's all bullshit because Marvel can't into villains

In this version of The Hand, those five leaders came from five different parts of the world and ruled over 5 different domains

I'm assuming Alexandra's domain was Europe, Gao's was China, Murakai's was Japan, Sowande's was Africa and who the fuck knows what Bakuto's deal is

In the comics he was in charge of spic lands.

my guy it's the hand.

at some point you were even the leader of them.

Ok I hear this constantly on Sup Forums but I seriously have not heard one person bitch about Iron Fist being white and I run in a pretty liberal circle.

Also I can't believe how badly they wasted Sigourney Weaver like holy fuck I thought they were gonna make her look incompetent at first to show how actually competent she is but nope she's just completely incompetent.

Then why does he have a Japanese name? Sowande is a Nigerian name, Alexandra is European, Gao is Chinese, Murakami is Japanese and then you have this spic motherfucker named "Bakuto". What part of Latin America is he from?

oh my god The Foot in TMNT are literally just a reference to The Hand jesus fucking christ.

"ok so we got one person to rule Europe, one for China, one person to rule Japan-"
"are you sure about that? Japan isn't that big maybe Gao could rule it or-"
"yes I'm fucking sure. ok now bokuto, you get everywhere that's not Europe, Japan, China, or Africa. that seems like an even split, meeting adjourned.
and remember, don't meet up again until we use up all our resurrection juice."

Shit, dude, he got taken out in Iron Fist mostly by some normal ish Asian chick and barely got out.

I was really pissed about what they did to Misty. Should have been Colleen, maybe then she'd stop being an idiot and thinking she can just kill everything with her sword. Literally all it would have taken is Misty just shooting him in the head, I was waiting for it the entire scene, either coming in as a surprise or after what had already happened. It's so simple.

That's 90% of my criticism of the show's writing; it relied on the worst kind of writing. I am so sick of watching and reading things where the plot and tension relies on the protagonists just being stupid as fuck or just missing the mark. This is rife with it.

Hey, should we call the FBI? Should we explain what's going on to higher authorities who surely don't want this going on? I mean, we can confirm all five major heads of this are in town under this building right now, this can't go much further. NAH THEY'RE TOO DANGEROUS THEY KILL PEOPLE. Hey, these guys are invulnerable unless we decapitate them, what do we do, get guns or swords or something? NO, PUNCHFIGHTS ONLY. Hey Danny, can you stop being petulant and rage filled and control yourself and stop flailing around and getting your ass kicked for like five seconds? NO I'M ANGRY BECAUSE I PUNCHED THE DOOR NOW.

Wore real the fuck thin.

Yeah, that would have made some serious improvement. Both on tension and on the whole "NO WE CAN'T TELL YOU WHAT'S GOING ON THEY'RE TOO DANGEROUS" shit.

Japan wasn't big but it was powerful. Defeated Russia and China in back-to-back wars, before that pulled off some bullshit against the Mongols.

That's because the complaints only took place online.
Tumblr Sup Forums youtube.
No one outside of those three places really cared.

uhhh huh, I think we have very different ideas on what "defeated" means.

>Japan annexed Korea and Taiwan and extracted a fuckton of money from the Qing
>Bolsheviks grew in power in Russia because people were angry Nicholas II lost the war, meanwhile there were actual riots in Japan because people felt their government went too easy on Russia in the peace terms

When they were trying to act mysterious about it they called him "our friend from South America"

K'un-Lun is a mystical other-dimensional city that crosses over to our plane of existence once every so many years in Tibet
>It's also full of native white people and black people and somehow a white woman ends up the leader of a terrorist ninja cult that broke off from aforementioned city
Um. Okay. Sure, why not?

I got pretty sick of everyone blowing off Misty to the point where it became counterproductive.
>It's too dangerous for you to know. You wouldn't believe me
Assholes, you live in a world with The Hulk and Thor, secret ninjas is pretty tame. Also Misty NOT knowing puts everyone at risk and creates more roadblocks for you given her job

They were all immigrants.
Sigorny weaver flat out said it in the show.

>From a guy who loved his city so much that he planned to... make money selling people.

That was the Russian mob's doing, Fisk just turned a blind eye to it until he was ready to dispose of them.

And what do you sometimes get when you pick up a stick? A splinter.

I distinctly recall a crossover or something, or at least a fan theory that said the ooze that got in the sewer and made the Turtles was the same stuff that hit Daredevil in the eyes.

They turned his character into a Flagellated liberal tulpa for bitching the series received. His character left before training is complete so who knows.

he might just be a trumped up door guardian. His character took a massive hit between series because reality is while all critics hated on it for perceived cultural theft and the fact he is another white guy, and whatever other shit they hate, just type in ironfist reviews, it's all schadenfreude there.

He was basically a master in his series taking everyone out. Next he is getting taken out by random mooks?

It doesn't make any sense but reality beyond all that is his series because of bad publicity became most watched/binged netflix show meaning they weren't going to cancel that shit which meant a bunch of angry liberals now have to stomach the show, so his character became sacrificial lamb.

>Consulting Scott Buck
>Ever

why didn't Danny just fly out of country discreetly and wait until the Hand died after finding out he was the key?

to be fair, even in his own show Danny was consistently portrayed as a petulant agressive dipshit. his approach to solving problems was laughable, and he had next to zero self control.

so defenders is just more of the same.

as for finishing his training, I get the feeling that the Iron Fist is NEVER finished training.

because he had been sold on the "only the Iron Fist can defeat tha Hand" story.

He just didnt realize that beating them meant staying put in Kun Lun and letting then fucking die off. He thoight it was all about punching stuff which is reasonable considering thats all he was being taught.

WHY WAS NO ONE ARRESTED THEY WERE IN A BLOWN UP BUILDING WITH 0 EVIDENCE THAT IT WAS FOR A GOOD REASON WHY DID THE POLICE GO FROM 'LETS ARREST THESE VIGILANTE FUCKS' TO 'OH POOR BABIES'

Have you ever met martial arts nutjobs? They're all zen seeking weirdos.

His character is the autismo king version of that.

So while they might all continue learning as that is a basic tenant of most eastern philosophies, I mean settle down in the role chosen by his own actions.

He feels impetuous and not comfortable in his own skin which goes against basic ideas he was trained in and around.

Because a near-unkillable blackman told those boys in blue what was up. Did you not watch the series where the cops bitched out?

Not like in reality where they would have called in an army to put them down or anything.

he was hardly a master in his own series. He's getting beaten up by tons of random mooks there too.

because even though the building blew up it basically sank into the ground. and new york knows all about buildings conspicuously falling perfectly in place.

He never loses a fight. Not once.

All that scene implied to me was Luke Cage murdered a bunch of SWAT members.

The Hand are cool in the comics because they're mobs of supernatural faceless ninjas. The decision to make the Hand a cabal with generic gun wielding mooks was a mistake. Tying IF so closely with the Hand was a mistake. Not using Gorgon was a mistake.

I think that there where a portal to kun lun down the hole (which is what IF opened) and the hand wanted back there to get dragon bones.