Spanking/yelling at children

I'm a live-in nanny and more and more frequently the parents are yelling in a violent manner at their 3-4 year old children, slapping them, or otherwise acting violent towards them.

During this time the children's behavior has also gotten worse. And EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. the parents start yelling, the kids start acting up, screaming worse. HOW THE FUCK DO THEY NOT SEE THE CONNECTION BETWEEN THEIR BEHAVIOR AND THEIR CHILDREN'S?

I even gave them an article (after the mother said if I came up with something that could help deal with her son's violent outbursts, to tell her) briefly explaining why yelling and spanking is completely counterproductive. Unfortunately I didn't have the guts to give her the more science-based article that had multiple studies sourced on the negative effects of spanking, so maybe this is why it apparently just went through one ear and out the other. (This is the science-based article by the way: cnn.com/2014/07/23/health/effects-spanking-brain/ )

I feel horrible for the children. Yes, they act like absolute fucking brats sometimes, but yelling at them and spanking them only makes the problem so much worse. They're suffering for absolutely no reason. And so am I - I'm sick of the screaming and crying from both parents and children.

Kids test boundaries, and how parents act shows them what's acceptable and what's not. Yelling at them and being violent shows them that that's acceptable behavior - so how the fuck do they think they're going to act? It also stresses the kids out and when kids are stressed out - their behavior reflects that.

How can I get this point through to them without seeming incredibly rude and judgmental?

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=XhtPbUApWrw
pcrm.org/health/health-topics/calcium-and-strong-bones
hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/what-should-you-eat/calcium-and-milk/
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

Occasional reminder that all of the reasons that r-strategists give for not spanking your children are just a list of qualities that r-strategists envy in K-strategists.

I love spanking girls makes my peepee go up

if their discipline crosses the line over to abuse consider reporting them

if it doesn't cross over to abuse, but their discipline style is still something you strongly disagree with then consider quitting your job over it

it can't be that difficult to find a new gig

It sucks because the family is super sweet normally - just somehow not when it comes to their children?

But honestly I was just thinking that, maybe I should leave.

I never told them this but I'm recovering from PTSD. Yelling is probably stressful for anyone to hear, but for me I can have a physical reaction to it. Ironically I'm extremely thankful to this family for getting out of a situation where there was constant yelling and physical abuse.

I don't hate this family, I hate their actions towards their children, and some of their beliefs in general irritate me. (For example I'm an ethical vegan who reads studies on nutrition as a hobby, and the woman thinks the Paleo diet is the ideal diet - anyone who is actually educated on nutrition knows it's pseudo-science malarkey, and she believes that her kids need to drink milk for strong bones - again, anyone who is actually educated knows that milk is bad for bone health. And the husband bought the "Wheat Belly" book which is just more pseudo-science. I feel like I can't talk to them about diet without also calling them morons.)

But this is the worst. If the parents are this aggressive towards their children now, at such a young age, I'm honestly terrified of what they'll do to them in the future.

My mother never laid a finger on me when I was a child - said she never had to because I was so good. But in middle school and in my teens I was suffering from a then undiagnosed disease and my mom started screaming at me and technically physically abusing me (although I deluded myself for years that it wasn't abuse because she was my mom and put a roof over my head), because I was skipping school to sleep. (That's not what I have PTSD from though - my brother's the one who did that.)

So if my upbringing was more or less pleasant for my childhood, and the violence in my family escalated so badly, I'm really scared for this family.

>"If you're kids don't look like this when you come home, you've failed as a parent."

tell them they're violating the NAP

Hitting kids doesn't work, any legitimate psychologist will tell you this (inb4 science is a jew creation good goy)

All hitting it does is alleviate the nigger parent's built up stress, they take the stress out on the child and it does little to improve it's behaviour.

It's hard to leave this family because the children are so attached to me, and the family really does need me. It will be a while before I quit. On the one hand, I would love to. I go to school full time and originally liked the idea of being a nanny because it offered me flexibility with my school schedule. But so far I've been able to get classes at night time so I could probably easily get a different job, and live in an apartment on my own.

I would have to find that job first though and somehow save enough money for a place to live because the alternative would be going back to my mom's for a bit with the brother that physically abused me regularly for a decade of my life and is constantly yelling.

Most likely you are projecting your extremely fucked up childhood.

I'm guessing your "disease" is PMDD. you still suffer from it. Unfortunately it clouds your judgement. It is the most dastardly of all afflictions, multiplying the natural womanly tendancy to hysteria into wild heights.

Beating your child is illegal and harmful. Spanking is just fine. You don't have kids, you don't know what you are talking about. If they are literally abusing the kids do something about it. If they are just spanking you need to look in the mirror and realize your PMDD is controlling your perception.

While I wouldn't try and diagnose her with something specific like PMDD, I have to admit that I agree with some of the spirit of this post

op, your paragraph about nutrition is pretty telling. You may want to consider the possibility that you are just a knowitall. You read some pseudo-science article that props up your world view about veganism and decide to take it as gospel, then when they take an interest in pseudo-science nutrition of a different sort you act like it's the silliest thing in the world.

just beat them up and throw em off a cliff into the ocean

youtube.com/watch?v=XhtPbUApWrw

No. Hashimoto's disease. Which did actually cloud my judgment. Although it's actually hard for me to say how much Hashimoto's disease contributed to my slow mental function, and how much of that was caused from an animal product like dairy. When I first went vegan it immediately cured my chronic nausea, and helped a great deal with brain fog. But I wasn't completely better right away, I had to get on treatment for Hashimoto's disease for that. I can actually track the progress of my mental health through my posts on the internet - it's really amazing.

Anyway, I get that you're probably joking but felt like sharing that I guess. I'm tired and ramble when I'm tired.

And I essentially raised a child from age 3-9. And I spend about as much time with these children as the parents do. Spanking is a gateway to more severe abuse, and spanking itself, even once a month, has measurable negative effects. Less gray matter in the brain. Increased aggression, decreased IQ, anxiety, lack of self control, etc.

Spanking and yelling are both very destructive to children's brains, even if they aren't severe physical abuses.

It might help you to think about it from the child's perspective. Imagine you're in a land of giants, and you're just learning all the many, often confusing, rules of their land. These giants get pissed if you break one of their confusing rules, and slap you or start yelling at you. They're huge compared to you, you're helpless, and you don't understand. It's terrifying for children, and that terror causes many issues not only with the relationship between parent and child but with actual brain chemistry.

I could go on forever about this topic but honestly what I've already said should be enough for anyone with more than 10 brain cells to understand why spanking and yelling is stupid parenting.

I actually read the studies and understand them..... Hundreds of studies.

You're a fucking idiot. Veganism is science-based. There are a lot of vegan blogs that aren't at all science-based, but that doesn't mean that the science behind veganism isn't strong. It just means there's a percentage of vegans who are idiots, like the majority of people.

/thread

You could say the same about any form of discipline. Or are you a scientologist? Do you literally think physical pain attaches emotional baggage to your cellular structure?

I used to feel the same way you do. I also "raised" my siblings as I was much older. Once you have children you will realize how much you did not actually raise your sibling. You will realize that there are parents that discipline and those that do not. Those that do not raised a generation of do nothing worthless sub human millennials. Those that do discipline raise productive members of society.

This person has never seen an actual child in his entire life.

Physical punishment is nothing but a temporary solution, it'll shut the kid up but it won't do anything to actually solve the problem.
I'm not going to say something dumb like it's abuse, but it's pretty useless.

i dont want to undermine things, but you sound like a pretty normal messed up family, and that type of shit shouldnt be accepted, but is common.

like says, parents are niggers that cant handle stress and are laying it out to their kids and you, to be honest, those are the type of hypocrite people that act all nice at work, but are pieces of shit to their family, and to everybody that cant hold them accountable. Like when driving, those type of people are the ones who violently cut off cars and generally dont give a fuck about anyone else.

OP, society is full of this shit, everywhere, personally, you would be doing a world a favor if you just killed them all, and I am not saying this cause of the hitting, kids fall and hit themselves harder, its not the hitting perse, is what is behind it, that is just a symptom of the type of people they are.

kill them OP

>I'm a live-in nanny

right.

Psychology is not a science.

I've babysat for 7 families, been a nanny for two, essentially raised my niece from age 3-9, cared for groups of 30 children at a time, and am majoring in child development.

I have many years of experience with children.

and I'm the CEO of alphabet

is this for real? smells to high hell of bullshit

>I'm a live-in nanny
POST TIMESTAMPPED TITS WHILE AT WORK
GTFO
>choose

R A R E
A
R
E

Most people never achieve a mature level of moral agency or self-reflection at any age. They are literally retarded. Spanking as a form of discipline can be effective, but only if the parents themselves have self-discipline. Without that, they're just chimping out on their kids because they're angry and normalizing violence for emotional reasons in their child's mind.

Did you self-diagnose yourself with Hashimoto's disease?

And are you overweight?

And i have over 300 confirmed kills and am a master of gorilla warfare

I got spanked not yelled at so much. My dad would cool off for awhile so he wasn't mad.

I behaved better than other boys my age especially in the respect department.

Yelling and slapping is abusive and frightening. Pain is a learning aid.

Sounds like some parents should have gone pic related.

Holy fuck you're stupid. You can discipline your child without yelling or hitting. Are you legit mentally retarded? No, you can't say the same about any form of discipline. There are many other ways of disciplining that don't cause your child to fear you and get unnecessarily stressed out.

You people don't seem to realize I raise children for a fucking living.... I know more than you about children, don't give me that bullshit.

Discipline is obviously important, but spanking and yelling is even worse than not disciplining at all.

I tried spanking my niece ONCE, before I realized it was counterproductive. From then on I treated her with respect and disciplined her in ways that showed that. She now has a 4.0, is on the Junior Olympic volleyball team, and in many clubs at school. She's also very polite and just an overall incredible young lady. She lives far away from me now but still calls me and looks up to me, we have a great relationship. If I had spanked her and disrespected her, I doubt she would have turned out so amazing and I know we wouldn't have the relationship we do. She trusts me more than she does her mom. Sad to say, but true.

ahaha what the fuck kind of thread is this

Exactly children. You raise young adults who now need safe spaces because they can't cope. They can not cope with the fact that life is very hard and it's never fair nor will it ever be.

All seriousness, yelling at your kid means you're not coping. If they're doing something really over-the-line / dangerous to them or others you've only got time to yell "STOP" and that's about it.

Disciplining them should never be done in anger.

...

I went and found that bone study you referenced because I was curious and you massively oversold it. The study itself wasn't designed to draw conclusions on the effect of milk and was simply observational in nature. It also studied older adult men and women, not children. I'm inclined to agree with the other posters when it comes to your ability to curate information.

That or this is an elaborate troll from a creative writing major which is what your overly personal and descriptive writing style feels like.

Are you saying my family sounds like a pretty normal messed up family, or theirs does?

I didn't list the fucked up things that went on in my family so I'm just assuming you're talking about theirs.

I get that it's considered to be pretty normal, but yeah, it shouldn't be. It's ridiculous.

I won't be killing them. I want to change them but I feel like there's no way to go about making them aware of the damage they're doing to their children without them thinking I'm rude and wanting to fire me for getting in their "personal business".

I love these kids, and I hate seeing them treated like this.

>You people don't seem to realize I raise children for a fucking living.... I know more than you about children, don't give me that bullshit.
If you truly can't see how you constantly come across as a knowitall then you lack self awareness.

People would take your more seriously if you weren't always pic related

>veganism is science based
>qualifications: babysitter
Okay lol

EXACTLY, thank you.

You don't raise children for a living, you make cuck wages to sit on your ass while those kid's parents go out and drive the economy. Show some respect to the adults that give you your bread while simultaneously paying the taxes that fund your education.

Btw there are a million MRS degrees out there majoring in child development.

exactly this, the parents' only job is to nurture and guide the children.
If you are a live-in nanny, their personal business as it relates to the children is automatically your business.

>>>/freedomainradio/

i don't know who that is

this is so unbearably boring

pcrm.org/health/health-topics/calcium-and-strong-bones

hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/what-should-you-eat/calcium-and-milk/

>their personal business
>personal
Stfu

lurk more

This.

My dad had this one thing where I got a collarbone nerve pinch with a very calm chat. His thumb was jammed under the bone in the hollow there.

Effective for two reasons, scary as shit and you dodged a spanking. Don't do that shit again and get caught.

You'll always get caught hitting your sister so don't..... :P

This, but even intense punishment is OK if you don't cross a line where you're actually breaking the child down without building them back up.

Threads like this are one of the many reasons its so easy to hate women

>Children's brains cant comprehend punishment.

Seeing as you write essay length responses I might keep this short.

No.

I've noticed that parents are increasingly aggressive and inpatient towards kids. My parents were alright but i remember it being normal that at other kids houses their parents would bark at the kids as the prime way of communication with an attitude as if they hated the presence of that kid. They didn't bother teaching or explaining stuff, they just thought that yelling was the best way to teach the kids to do menial things like cut a steak.

I blame the previous generation. They allowed the crime rate in the eighties to exceed the crime rate of prohibition all because they felt they didn't have to constrain themselves. Today's youth have a higher rate of bipolar, temperamental and alcoholic parents than any other generation of children.

Anyone here working a minimum wage job? Ever notice how all the problematic customers are between 35 and 60?

Lots of people ITT calling children "its".

A thing I have noticed with my infant daughter is that many times I find myself thinking of her in the same way I think of my cat. Love them both to death, want to take care of them, but I also don't have any sort of intellectual or rational interaction with them beyond basic needs.

Thinking about this way, I feel alot of parents have a very hard time getting past this initial "first impression" in their relationship with their children. In that first year, they are absolutely barely sentient animals that are completely dependent on your care.

Over time though this will change, especially once their brains develop object permanence. My earliest personal memories are from when I was 2 years old incidentally. I do remember my parents spanking me, and I do remember my parents yelling at me when I was 2-3 years old. I'm 30 now. Part of this is the whole "cat theory", and the other I think is a naive belief that kids will somehow forget about it, or at the very least not remember. They do though. I know they do because I remember.

First rule in my mind to successful parenting? Your kids are not possessions.

Second rule? Your kids are not stupid. Just ignorant. Ignorance is curable by education. It can be stern education, and punishment is certainly a teaching tool. But the goal needs to be educating, not stress release.

Don't treat your kids like morons. It will reverberate for a very long time.

Makes sense to me. My parents did that pretty often too.

>Kids test boundaries, and how parents act shows them what's acceptable and what's not.

Yes, kids are basically are animals and the imperative method is how they learn. Parents can teach them the concept of acceptable and not acceptable only by force and intimidation.

>Yelling at them and being violent shows them that that's acceptable behavior - so how the fuck do they think they're going to act?
Wrong. That is why we let kids get away with the things we don't let get away with adults.

>covered in vegan ads
You sure know how to keep it unbiased

If you don't realize what I meant by that then you must have no experience or knowledge about children. And even with that short response, yes I could write essays. But I don't feel like explaining to someone who apparently already made up their mind about the issue anyway.

As someone that used to be a child, i can tell you that you'll learn from and understand the reasoning behind a punishment if you're not an absolute retard, which you very much seem to be

My dad started beating me when I was about 2. When I got a little older my mom joined in. Life has been extremely difficult in many ways. Abused kids are more likely to have health problems, addictions, bad relationships, end up in jail and become homeless.

Call Barnevernet

>Taking credit for other's achievements.

kys

kys

That first article references a study that doesn't support their claims at all. It also references studies that are specifically concerned with aging and elderly women.

Taken from the first reference of the first link under nutrition.
>One reason for these low levels of calcium intake relates to current lifestyle and food preferences, which have resulted in reduced intake of dairy products and other naturally calcium-rich foods.

The second link doesn't actually reference any studies.

You're definitely not good at discerning useful information or you're just writing up some stories for fun.

As someone who used to be a kid, I can tell you that reasoning till you are ~12 means you can get away with shit by making a sad face and pretend being guilty

>live-in nanny
>how the parents discipline the kids is none of her business
delete your account

despite the other faggots here, I get what you mean. Nearly all the adults in my child life were pretty loud and idiots about punishment. There was always the fear of getting caught for goofing off, instead of having a conscience about what was allowed and what was not. You learned by guessing their mood and coping with the yelling and occasional beatings.

This sums it up pretty well.

Pretty much, yeah. That's a good point, actually, children will find a way to be little shits discipline or not

Literally just watch Molyneux's videos about how bad spanking is.
It's teaching children that violence is an acceptable way to solve problems, on top of other negative effects.

I was spanked as a kid and screamed at. Hell when I was in early elementary school my mom would yell at me if I didn't understand a math question or brought home a bad grade. Parents also fought a lot. I'm sure that fucked me up somehow

>glorified babysitter
>doing anything outside of feeding and letting the kids shit
Kys

Sometimes violence is the answer.

Only women don't understand this because when no one is looking boys beat on one another or everyone on one.

I'm teaching my kids to hit back.

I never understood why people think yelling is a good idea. It just makes your child scared or angry. You tell your child to do something the first time, and if they don't, they get punished immediately. That way they know what will happen the next time they disobey. There's a reason why children who grew messed up happened to have parents who mistook punishment for abusement.

No. I was diagnosed when I was 14, didn't find out til I was in my early 20's. Had symptoms when I was 8 years old that I went to the doctor for so yeah...

And no, I've been on treatment for Hashimoto's disease. I've never really been overweight because I was also anorexic as a teen. I had chronic nausea that made it easy for me to be anorexic.

And I'm a healthy weight now.

Spanking and yelling actually creates weaker children who are less able to cope with life stresses. This is the kind of logic I used in high school...

misbehaving girls above the age of 5 really just need a good dicking. look at how well behaved the daughters of muslims are. semen is like a drug to females, a good dosage can keep them calm and blissful for up to a whole day.

Let's take a common example. Two families interacting. One kid hits another kid. You have three options. Do nothing, sit your kid down and explain that it isn't nice to hit, or whap the stank out of that kid.

Here is why you whap that kid. The other parents and their kids deserve to have a stop put to the bad actions. Sure you could sit your rotten kid down and calmly explain why hitting is mean, but really, how many ways can you explain that? What words will you use to implant the message outside of "hitting is bad mkay?"

In the real world if you hit someone else THEY HIT YOU BACK. In the controlled environment of childhood we rely on the parents to hit back because they can control the severity of the spank. If you left it up to the kids blood would.fly.

>You're a fucking idiot. Veganism is science-based.

>You people don't seem to realize I raise children for a fucking living....

>I know fucking everything cause I'm a babysitter, this isn't the kind of job that they trust teenagers with like flipping burgers you losers.

Yikes. Enjoy reading more "scientific" articles on your phone while the kids are having a nap.

Well said.

Neat.

>Unfortunately I didn't have the guts to give her the more science-based article that had multiple studies sourced on the negative effects of spanking, so maybe this is why it apparently just went through one ear and out the other.

Do it you fucking pussy or it's partially on you when they grow up to be dumbasses.

Absolutely. I've never seen a poorly-behaved child that didn't have a nigger-tier "parent" behind them yelling, screaming, threatening, or negotiating.

OP is still a fucking faggot though
>muh veganism
pic related

No, you have to find a way to psycologically discourage them from doing it. Preferably in a way that they will make the right choice the next time.

Beating them immediately results in them finding craftier ways to piss off their siblings, and getting the sibilng to react violently and get themselves into trouble. Anyone who's had sisters know this is the primary way they fuck with you.

Kids should know that violence is always on the table, that way it acts as a deterrent. They should know that if they really act up, there's probably a belt in their future. That is actually how the world works, if you really act up as an adult, its not a belt, its cops bouncing your head off the ground and practically dislocating your shoulder to put you in handcuffs.

The problem comes when its a regular occurance, or applied inconsistently, then its just abuse, however well-intentioned it is.

This is true.

>I was on a plane and a young muzzie girl was in front of me. She put her seat back on the tarmac and as we where taxiing I told her to put her seat all the way up. Safety prep for an emergency is serious shit. It's the first 2 min or last 2 min shit gets fucky.

>anyway

>She didn't put her seat back the rest of the four hour flight. I was fucking weirded out.

>Literally last weekend.

I laughed about it with my wife after. I can see the appeal but it would get old pretty quick having someone with know spine around all the time.

I like my women tougher than that. Sometimes I need to be told to go fuck myself. A submissive would let me run my mouth too much.

I bet after awhile of not respecting her I could hate fuck her for fun. I see the evil appeal.....

Like real rapey throat fuck shit where they puke on your dick and you keep going.

If you had Hashi's since you were 8 your thyroid has been gone for a decade. Now you don't have Hashi's anymore, because it is an autoimmune that targets the thyroid. Now you have permanent hypothyroidism, not Hashi's.

Thank god you are not a med student, people would die.

How can I do it in a way that doesn't make them have negative feelings towards me though?

I can't help them very much if I'm fired.

False. Children respond to a strong authoritative figure. Obviously not overly strict but strict enough to let that child know that they are there to be the parent and not the child's friend, someone who is strict about school, athletics (not allowing kids to be lazy fat asses) and strong discipline to ensure fuck ups don't happen twice. Spanking or harsher discipline I sometimes the only way.

I don't care, I think it's funny when kids get punished, they deserve it for being small and annoying.

This one time I saw a mom slapping her kid and it caused a crowd of people to go silent and they heard my chuckling, it was embarrassing. Damn kids.

Pretty much how i was raised, with that nuclear option in the worst case. I also know not to be a piece of shit outside of Sup Forums. OP is just another insecure moron clinging to weak observational studies to confirm their own skewed beliefs, because they believe babysitting makes them a child psychologist

I flinch and always wait for my mom's approval for things
Don't do anything she hasn't told me
Don't say things and cover them up

She was always verbally abusi e and it brought us down so thats what we did.

She asks me why I would wait for her permission to do things like she never raised me that way and asks why I'm defensive even though she used to throw objects at us too

Fuck abusive shitheads they don't know what they're doing

I'm a college drop out because I received 10x the verbal abuse and punishment while in college since I didn't go to commiefornia so she could live her dream life but she won't pay for my dorms despite wanting to pay 10x for ANY OTHER COLLEGE

Single mother's need to be killed

Spanking = psychological discouragement from doing bad things leading to better choices in the future.

Spanking is not beating. Physical pain is not the object. Psychological consequences to devient behavior is the goal.

I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's hypothyroidism.

I think it was mild when I was 8 then steadily got worse. Pretty sure I still have a thyroid. The symptom I went to the doctor for when I was 8 was bursitis. Little known fact that Hashimoto's disease causes joint problems. That was what ultimately forced me to go to the doctor in my early 20's - it had become a struggle to walk up and down the stairs.

The Hitler Youth sounds like a pretty good idea now

Can we all agree that these are unacceptable ways to discipline a child?

>kicking/punching them
>spitting on them
>threatening to kill them
>telling them they are a mistake/shouldn't have been born
>"lost cause"
>rape

>rape


What if she's 16 and well stacked? Curfew is serious business.

How many damn times do I have to tell people you can discipline children without resorting to destructive, idiotic things like spanking and yelling?

And the #1 way to get children to respond well to you is to set a good example. Be someone they admire and they'll want to impress you. Be a cunt that disrespects them and nope.

Holy fuck no one in this post actually has children?

I have 3 under 5

Yes I love them and they make up my entire existence. But there are time yelling and questionable discipline measure are needed. Children are naturally manipulative to get there own way. Lie to avoid getting in trouble, blame siblings, ect basically the behavior dindus never grew out of.

It takes a strong amount of consists ft and zero tollerence to raise a proper child. Any on lookers wit's out children or butt hurt 14 year old dispute me

>Sometimes violence is the answer.
Yes, when it is done in self-defense, since that doesn't violate non-initiation of force/non-aggression principle.
And if you feel the need to use self-defense against a child, you dun fucked up somewhere.

Until you have a degree with a focus on child psychology

Pretty sure my mom calling me a stupid worthless faggot for having to get my consent forms for sex ed in 5th grade signed counts? Like, I didn't even have a choice in the matter, the school made me do it.

My mother was verbally abused, smacked around and openly humiliated by my grandparents. Wasn't allowed to go to a division one school because my grandfather didn't want her to be better than him

Because of how shit it it was she went to college at 17 and was financially independent by the time she graduated at 21.

Fast forward to now, I'm behind on my education a few years because I wasnt disciplined enough. Played vidya days on end, graduated high school in the bottom twenty of my class, all without repercussion because my mother didn't want me to go through the same things she did. I hated how abrasive work and effort are so I refused to do either.

I'm only 20 and a freshman at community college (should be junior) and while I'm fortunate of understanding this now, I get to put myself through 12 years of discipline and experience in two years before I transfer out if I'm to have any shot at this.

So, I may be only one person and one anecdote but experiences don't lie.