Affirmative Action

Could Sup Forums enlighten me on Affirmative Action please?

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theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/10/the-painful-truth-about-affirmative-action/263122/#article-comments
youtu.be/_8wA5OzCwmM
m.youtube.com/watch?v=T2hPQ86lGV0
dailymotion.com/video/x3988gp
tnellen.com/cybereng/harrison.html
nola.com/opinions/index.ssf/2014/04/martin_luther_king_jr_explicit.html
archive.is/7pJPA
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It is a misguided attempt to make things more equal in a multicultural society by giving preferential placement for minorities in schools, jobs, and so on. Ironically the result is that people are hired or given scholarships based on race instead of merit.

tl;dr racism to solve racism

It served a purpose when racial discrimination existed.

Now that everyone has the same opportunities anyway it's just counterproductive.

Equal opportunity, but not equal access experiences and resources.
When liberals say they want a balanced and clean slate, they literally mean it

I can see the idea behind it. Some kid raised in the hood by shitty parents won't have the same opportunities as a kid in a middle class home raised by parents who care about him, even if they're just as smart and hardworking. It's meant to give them a leg up and move on in life. But it's wasted too many times and becomes another source of gibs.

all in all it's an extremely racist concept

It assumes every minority is worse of than every white person, which is racist towards minorities.
It gives minorities more opportunities than white people which is racist towards whites.
It assumes minorities are too bad to achieve what white people do without help, which is again racist towards minorities.

Its when the government mandates that you have to hire certain percentages of females or minorities.

Real world example, I worked as a forest fire fighter for the forest service.

There were 10 positions and 13 applicants, 2 were female.

ALL male applicants were qualified, the females were not, but 2 of the qualified males were not hired because the department was not legally allowed to reject their application.

So instead of hiring 10 qualified people ready to go directly to work they got 8, and 2 women who they had to try to get qualified.

4 months later these two women were still failing the qualifications, but HR couldnt (or wouldnt) fire them. So these women worked clerical jobs in the office but were still paid the extra wages that the fire-fighters were entitled to.

On a forest fire one earns hazard pay (pay is 1.5 times more for duration of the fire fighting) and despite bot ever leaving the office the 2 females still expected to be paid hazard pay for the fire they didnt fight while already getting paid for the job they were not qualified to hold and were not performing.

They were rejected on their hazard pay claim but still, the fucking nerve of those roasties was fucking unbelievable.

I guess in urban schools they got scholarships that have to go to a certain number of black kids, so in a lot of cases C and D students get hooked up with huge scholarships that white kids with straight A's do not have access too.

But remember, it isnt sexist or racist if its discriminating against white people, its PROGRESSIVE!

>even if they're just as smart and hardworking
But then there would be no need, since performance on aptitude tests would suffice for admittance. In effect, it means that those advantaged by affirmative action have lower thresholds for entry, which means that many people who aren't capable of handling an academic environment designed for people who meet the normal thresholds are put there anyway. This is counterproductive, since pursuing something aligned with their actual skills would likely turn out better for everyone involved than flunking out would.

The races have different cognitive abilites on average and this is explains variation in many measures of life outcome.

I don't know why people on Sup Forums of all places would talk about how "AA is the REAL racism!" It is, but it's racism against whites. Make sure you explicitly state that if you're going to cuck yourself by stepping into the left's frame.

>affirmative action in a country with a black president

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

You sort people by race, if that's not racist I don't know what is

It is the biggest example of good intentions (repent for the sins of the father kek) having absolutely terrible outcomes.

There is no other program i can think of that somehow not only shits on one group to help another but also manages to shit all over the group it is trying to help at the same time.

Say you have a medical school that takes the top 50 applicants. The cut off mark is for example 95%. Admission would normally take all those above 95%, rank them by mark and take the top 50. Affirmative skews this ends up screwing everyone

>non minorities
Are you asian/indian/white? You got the mark necessary to be admitted and were the 49th or 50th best applicant? Too bad, your spot is given to someone who performed worse than you. No other justification for this other than race. You have no idea if this asian kid grew up poor and the hispanic kid in a nice upper class suburb. It doesnt matter, the spot is given to the Hispanic kid based on race. True racial discrimination.

>minorities
Here you have a black fellow who goes to university, his mark isnt the 95% to get into medical school needed so he wouldnt normally be admitted. Hes a fine student pulling 80% in his classes and will probably go on to be a manager of sorts and live a perfectly fine middle class life someplace. A good model minority right? No. To the people who make these policies they believe said student would be getting the 95% needed to go to medical school if it wasnt for his race. They bump him up and now this student is now placed in a class he simply cannot stay afloat in. Im not saying they all cannot but the data simply shows they just cant. When prop 209 ban came into effect in UCLA stopping them from using large racial preferences what did they notice?
>The total number of black and Hispanic students receiving bachelor's degrees were the same for the five classes after Prop 209 as for the five classes before.
theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/10/the-painful-truth-about-affirmative-action/263122/#article-comments

Enrollments for students went down. Fewer black/Hispanic students were being admitted to the uni but the number graduating didnt change. Those students who would normally graduate were graduating. The only thing that changed was the number of people being pushed into courses they simply cannot do reduced and therefore enrollments went down. This imo is the worst part of affirmative action. It takes perfectly fine performing minorities who would be role models for their community and attempts to make doctors and lawyers of them all. It doesnt realise that this leads to half of them dropping out, turning what would have been a fine model citizen into a lazy dropout failure. These people dont see it that way, as long as that one kid who got 94% and gets help to get into medical school graduates what does it matter if it stepped on a million other minorities to lift this single kid up?

Didn't we work this out with bell curves already?

And what about white kids growing up in abusive homes with drug using parents? Their opportunities are stifled as well, but they will get a short end of the stick due to their race. What about Asians that have to over achieve to get into college compared to any other race due to AA quotas?

It's equity not equality.

Same goes for university acceptance rates.

It's the process of making unequal things equal by forcing exclusive or preferential opportunity for a group of people.

which brings me to the last group of people it fucks over

>well performing minorities
Shown above is that the graduation rates didnt change. That is to say that the black kid who got 97% on his own and got into medical school was always going to survive, itst he kid who got 80% and lifted in that wasnt. Affirmative action doesnt only shit on non minorities by giving away spots to those who performed worse, it doesnt just ruin a bunch of perfectly midling minority students by turning them into drop outs, it also shits all over the achievements of minorities who would otherwise be there without these programs. A minority student in a competitive program is now seen as the affirmative action entrant. The hard work and toil they went through has been thrown aside to be labelled as a fool who got where he/she is due to their race alone.

Take a look at how people respond differently to an black doctor vs an asian doctor. People are more weary and they have every right to be, the black could have been admitted to the school with half the marks of the asian, your prejudice i believe is perfectly justified in this case. Had there been no affirmative action these two people must have both performed equally well to be admitted and at that point saying no to Ben Carson operating on you is simply a matter of personal choice and not one made due to the unbalanced admissions system we have.
>“If you have always believed that everyone should play by the same rules and be judged by the same standards, that would have gotten you labeled a radical 60 years ago, a liberal 30 years ago and a racist today.”

this is another thing i would like to know. When does it end? When will you say ok we now have a lawyer population that perfectly correlates with the racial spread of this nation, we reached the end and can now stop.

Was this plan ever introduced with an endpoint in store? When you have a black president can you say the struggle is over and dont need it anymore? If not when? there are entire cities with majority black councils/mayors/police etc. At what point do you say we are done?

We lower the standards so blacks can take the positions of more qualified people. So when you work with a black person you can't tell if they have the proper qualifications to do the job or is just one of the many who just slid on through.

Brother you're so close to the answer but you don't seem to know it.

>Was this plan ever introduced with an endpoint in store?

This plan was designed decades in advance. The idea is to totally destroy America society.

Who could have done this so far in advance?
youtu.be/_8wA5OzCwmM

A set of scales can be balanced, or it can be unbalanced.
If it's tipping one way, then tips the other way, it doesn't become reverse unbalanced- it's just unbalanced.

Affirmative action isn't positive racism or reverse racism, it's just racism.

The biggest redpill on this subject and it's a suppository

m.youtube.com/watch?v=T2hPQ86lGV0
>tl;dr racism to solve racism
I'd argue it is just simply racism (benevolent intentioned racism with huge negative impacts but racism none the less) to defeat a perceived "racism" because in the racist progressive mind if x biological category isn't represented in y field exactly to the proportion of their population size the only explanation can be discrimination. They have absolutely no concept that it could possibly be that different groups of people have different preferences and abilities and choose to go into different fields for innumerable different reasons.

They also seem to genuinely view these races as lessers but have transformed the old progressive stance of hardcore eugenics and even outright extermination to turning the "lesser races" into their retarded pets that they can "save" as to stroke their own ego. To add injury to insult the very programs that there progressives have been implementing since the 60s have had a huge degenerative effect(second pic incoming to enforce this point) because a person coddled doesn't improve and when you coddle entire populations of people they become dependent and less intelligent over time. Their endless claims of racism to people who disagree with their racist policies is just projection of people struggling with racism because normal people who have no issues with racism don't see it under every rock and with every breeze.

underrated

I know where it's heading and I'm I do think it somewhat but I also think
Is on the money, these policies are made for liberal ego stroking and for political expediency without any thought of consequences and future issues. The here and now of shitting out more Hispanic scientists whether they be good or not matters more to these people who get off on this kind of fucked up form of "help" they have given

Second pic

It is a scientific fact that feeding animals males them become dependent upon those feeding them and overtime the group of dependent animals heavily degenerate and become incapable of supporting themselves.
This applies to Humans as well because we are also fundamentally animals and this concept is so easily observed that the concept is at least as old as the Bible with this line "Give a man a fish he eats for a day teach a man to fish and he can feed himself".

Also thanks for the video, I haven't seen this one yet and it's a nice long watch for the drive, much appreciate it

No you are wrong. The people responsible for (((affirmative action))) are very, very comfortable with the future consequences of such a policy.

Please don't think that anything that happens on the Grand Chessboard is well thought out.

>The here and now of shitting out more Hispanic scientists whether they be good or not matters more to these people who get off on this kind of fucked up form of "help" they have given
As a side note of this these multiculturalist progressives only care about non Western European representation and when western Europeans are underrepresented to them It basically doesn't exist.
Pic related

dailymotion.com/video/x3988gp
tnellen.com/cybereng/harrison.html

Short Story on Affirmative Action by Kurt Vonnegut

never ever choose a black doctor

Sowell is the best source on these issues and on calling out intellectuals. He's pretty decent at explaining basic economics but once he opens his mouth on foreign policy he falls into the same intellectual pit that he has dedicated much of his life to explaining and he goes absolutely full blown neocon retard.

ever wonder how """""top tier""""" schools like berkeley, harvard, yale, duke, etc, get infested with dumbshit niggers who protest against racism on a campus that only let them in because niggers are so stupid the government literally had to make laws to force schools to accept them?

MLK was actually heavily in favor of affirmative action type programs as a form of reparations of slavery.

That is one quote in a sea of pro affirmative action and typical socialist talking points.

gj missing the point entirely

A class-based Affirmative Action program based on opportunities would be preferable to the current system. Provide kids in shitty neighbourhoods the OPPORTUNITY to learn in better institutions (eg. high schools in middle-class neighbourhoods through commuting) rather than giving them preference in enrollment.

At least, that's how I view the issue. Getting a job based on my race sounds stupid as fuck.

This picture seems like a great tool for shutting down any argument about privilege. Can you link the source?

Just another tool of the Democrats to make sure the negroes feel oppressed by the Republicans and to keep them lazy, entitled and complacent. Typical plantation politics.

No i got the point you missed the point.

Including MLK in that picture is stupid and ignorant because MLK was entirely in favor of what the picture is against.
That taken out of context line from one speech refers to some off distance day after blacks have received special treatment due to the past mistreatment in order to "catch up" for lack of a better term.

nola.com/opinions/index.ssf/2014/04/martin_luther_king_jr_explicit.html

It's pretty old. Couple years at least.

Speaking of

Non whites aren't smart enough to compete with whites and Asians, so AA lowers the bar to let them. All it did is discriminate against Asians and Whites for being smart and capable. Non whites go to colleges they shouldn't go to, which makes a good number of them drop out because they don't get it. If they don't then they graduate and face difficulty finding a job because the employers know they aren't qualified. Of course most places has quotas, so they hire them to fill it. Again all it did is discriminate against capable individuals.

Yes

does it make them not stupid anymore?

Oh and for the goys out there.

It means putting incompetents in places of learning based on absolutely nothing helpful, over potential competents who might actually succeed in the field.

It's all about creating debt for the (((central banks)))
>shrink the market for professionals
>import and create more welfare users
>install state approved slavery to pay for it all because taxes are chasing off anyone with a job/money to foreign countries.

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In one attack, police say an 18-year-old girl suffered scrapes and cuts to her leg and her cell phone was smashed. Authorities say her debit card was also taken from her purse.

archive.is/7pJPA

it's a euphemism for discrimination through preferring

no niggers allowed = negative discrimination
only niggers allowed = affirmative action

leftists think they can fix discrimination with discrimination

they completely ignore that what they are doing is immoral for exactly the same reasons

the best candidate might get passed over for a job because they are black
the best candidate might get passed over because their position was subject to a quote
neither is better than the other

they seldom substantiate or can quantify the injustice suffered by the minority group, and the affermative action is often disproportionate

ironically often "affirmative action" is just used to legitimize and institutionalize their hate or to punish collectively a majority group no longer at fault

In practice it's a way to take seats away from high performing Asians and give them to (mostly well-off) black people. It means that the rich white legacy students at the ivy leagues have fewer Asians scoring higher than them, so they have a shot at competing with their inevitable overlords. Without affirmative action, white people would be finished already.

Fpbp. You nailed it leafbro.

UC Berkley doesn't have affirmative action. It's overrun by Asians who study hard and achieve great things and contribute to a society that spits in their face. Oh the horror...

It should be socioeconomic based instead of race based. This would allow much more affirmative action constitutionally, and actually help Blacks more. But ironically, every time you suggest something like that, blacks argue against their interest and it.

There actually was a program like that.

It was called Upward bound, and instead of race they looked at kids with good grades but who were from extremely poor economic areas, utterly ignori g race.

The kids would spend summer vacation of highschool years living on college campuses learning how to cope with college life, enrollment processes, how to get scholarships, etc etc.

The average student in america has about a 50% drop out rate in the first year, then 50% of 2nd year students drop out before their 3rd.

The kids from the upward bound program? 87% graduation rate, despite coming from the worst neighborhoods or the most isolated and impoverished rural areas they had a graduation rate 3 times higher than kids from ADVANTAGED areas.

Program had its funding cut in 2010 and has been in heavy decline since. Used to be vice president of my region, I keep in touch with the ones who still work there. They went from getting 480 kids per year from the program accepted into college, to only having 30 kids in the whole program.

Government doesnt care how sucessful a program is, they care about how much publicity it can generate, and upward bound's biggest failure was that it didnt waste its money with PR and playing politics, it just helped kids, so nobody cared when the obscure government program that was quietley getting poor kids into college in the tens of thousands per year on fair terms got cut.

They needed money for dem gibs me dats programs, and it had to come from somewhere.

That's tragic m8. Politicians are fucking gross.

That is absolutely fucking shitty.

Sorry, man.

We lobbied like motherfuckers too. We got our ass beat by obamacare. The same day congress was voting yes or no on Obamacare was the same day congress was reviewing our funding.

We sent the VP's from every district in the US to DC chat up our respective congress-critters about it that week. Reaction was basically universal "yeah yeah, thats nice, thanks for coming out now im busy."

Pretty sure we just got shut down on because voting no on cutting our budget was more expedient than talking it out whilst the obama-care bill waited to be voted on.