Erasing the future and essentially dooming all his friends into nonexistence and having ashi disappear was a fucking...

Erasing the future and essentially dooming all his friends into nonexistence and having ashi disappear was a fucking stupid ending and genddy is a fucking hack writer.

Seriously, what happened? The first three episodes of season 5 were seriously good animation. One of the best cartoons I've seen in years. Episode 4 and 5 were still alright but nothing special. Every episode after that just got worse and worse with the series finale being absolute dogshit. How were the first few episodes so good but the rest weren't?

>this is the fate of any and all Samurai Jack discussion till the end of time
I miss her, and I hate that we will never get canon comics/spinoffs involving her

I like the other episodes honestly. Thats probably why i hate the finale so much more. I wanted ashi to get with jack, jack deserved a happy ending. I hate this grimdark shit the media shoves down our throats to be more mature. I dont want to be mature, i want happy endings for my shows, and for my life :(

What the fuck were you expecting? Going back to the past and undoing the future that is Aku was the plan from day one.

Pan said in the latest podcast something about knowing behind the scenes stuff for jack that he wasnt allowed to go into, so im hoping they recton going back to the past and killing ashi, and instead save and rebuild the future with a newly ressurected ashi, and fight the chaos that envolps earth after akus leadership has been struck down.

pan?

Kys yourself.

I was expecting him to save and help rebuild the future. Only a pissy bitch would care about his parents who by that time wouldve been thousands of years dead, and his current friends and everyone hes helped along the way are more important, plus the fact that everything hes done to benefit the future was for nought and was renderd meaningless. Going back to the past was predictiable, fucking stupid, and selfish, and if genddy wants to look like anything but a talentless hack in my and other fans eyes hed undo the ending and make a 6th season

>People think the future was erased.

Jack returned to the point in the past seconds after being sent. If the future was really erased, nothing of what we had seen in the series would have happened, and as such Jack couldn't have gone back to the past.

In other words SJ runs in the alt-timeline theory of time travel.

Thats what I thought was happening when Ashi said "I felt him leave me", but then she disappeared, which wouldn't happen if it was alt-timeline rules.

Then how did ashi get erased? The future was erased from exsistance and everyone in it as well when jack went back to the past to selfishly save his parents who are long since dead. Jack killed billions who would not have exsisted unless for the reign of aku, jack is literally worse then hitler

The fact that he went back to the past and Ashi didn't make it with him was honestly one of the only things I liked about the final episode.

I don't think I'm alone at all when I say that I completely failed to dredge up any feelings for Ashi. "Jack decides not to go back to the past and tries to build on the post-Aku" world is such a common fan-idea for the ending and I've honestly always hated it so I'm glad that's not a thing, either.

I don't have it all planned out because I don't exactly have it in me to run a show, but here's an absolutely basic idea of how I would've ended things
>Jack is faced with one final time portal during or after the fight with Aku
>It occurs to him that by killing Aku in the past, all of the people he's met will never have existed as he knew them and he'll never see his allies again
>Scotsman of all people tells him to pull up his fucking bootstraps, quit being a pussy and do it because even if he doesn't get to see it literally any world where Aku doesn't exist will be better than the current one and he doesn't understand how such a boyscout who doesn't even have it in him to behead a man shooting at him can't understand such a simple choice
>...Or he just physically throws him into the time portal, making the choice for him

Literally the entire show has Jack not going into time portals because he wants to save a friend from getting killed, having the end of the show featuring him going into a time portal while LITERALLY ALL OF HIS FRIENDS are being murdered by Aku was so fucking weird.

Shut the fuck up you retard, you and your shittaste who would goble up anything the hack serves to you is why samurai jack ended so fucking awfully. Ashi should have survived, jack killed millions by going back to the past and eeasing them, a fate worse then death might i add because atleast in death theres an afterlife being erased you simply cease to exists and are just a collection of screaming memories of you mightve been in the universal time bleed. Go fuck yourself and fuck the shitty ending you love because your a brianless hack just like you shit god genddy

Shoehorning a tragedy for tragedy's sake without properly building it up(narratively and thematically) is the opposite of mature.
For the original series yes, but the new season wasn't building up to that, most notably because EVERY time portal was destroyed, among other things.
Hell, there was even an episode where Jack was prophesized to use a time portal at some point, and that prophecy was literally retconned in season 5.

The Aku timeline is so utterly screwed, it's a world where Hitler is an immortal and nigh-omniscient god who gets to do whatever the fuck he wants to the entire universe and has done so for thousands of years. It's a bad end timeline. I wouldn't be comfortable with the idea of not existing either, but I find it hard to say it's the wrong thing to do to undo the evil that is Aku considering all of the people that would have a chance at a better life if he had never existed.

>first user goes on tangent about how he didn't like the ending aside from one factor
>other user: FUCK YOU FOR LIKING THE ENDING.

>Going back to the past was predictiable, fucking stupid, and selfish, and if genddy wants to look like anything but a talentless hack in my and other fans eyes hed undo the ending and make a 6th season
kek

And this is why we can't discuss shit

He couldve killed aku in that timeline and saved all the people. There is literally no excuse for jacks shitty actions. Fuck this show, i cant even watch an episode anymore, not even from the old series, because after 5 months the taste of how bad the ending was still wont come out. I want to punch genddy in his stupid russian jew face for his hack writing killing what couldve been one of the greatest cartoons of all time.

>The Aku timeline is so utterly screwed
There was an entire episode dedicated to showing the audience how much better one mortal individual had made the world in spite of Aku's continued existence.
There's no telling how much more Jack could have done along with ashi and scotsmans clan AFTER killing aku.

No, you don't get it. By stopping Aku in the past Jack got to save his parents, create a timeline where the unnecessary untold suffering and deaths of billions never occurred, and it's entirely possible that at least some of those people got to exist in the new timeline because Buddhism definitely exists on some level in Samurai Jack. All religions are true, and all that.

I mean, you're pulling like half of that out of your ass. The ending basically thrusts into your face the idea that even Ashi got to reincarnate despite having never existed. It's not a stretch to think that Jack's allies could get better lives for themselves in the new timeline, either.

Jack is uncharacteristically full of pyrrhic victories and Jack being stonewalled despite trying his hardest, so I would've actually been annoyed if he just got literally everything he wanted with no drawbacks.

There's a lot of personal opinion involved too, I guess. I really just didn't like the idea of Ashi and "no i will stay in the future and be king jack" is so boring and easy compared to doing what you said you were going to do from the start and going back to the fucking past, whatever that might entail.

Easy.

Ashi slowly adapted to the new timeline, one with no Aku to give her origin. If she had just send Jack back to the past alone, she'd have still remained alive cause that future timeline still had Aku in it.

After all, why did it take to the wedding for Ashi to desappear rather than just poof right after killing Aku?

Its BttF rules.

He killed billions by erasing the timeline and those billions would stay in limbo as screaming unexstances who might have existed in unmade earth. Fuck you for wanting jack to go back to the past, for ashi to die, and for not wanting king jack

you just sound irrationally furious and kind of off, gonna be honest

you sound like you want to be angry because ashi was your waifu

>deaths of billions never occurred
Just because Aku didn't kill them doesn't mean they didn't die. If you look at an alternate future without aku, everyone who was dead before is still dead. And a lot of different death occurs for other reasons
>The ending basically thrusts into your face the idea that even Ashi got to reincarnate
That was not the implication
>literally everything he wanted with no drawbacks.
Staying in the future and not being able to see his parents would be the drawback, but it would involve him developing as a character and realizing that some things aren't meant to be tampered with.
>no i will stay in the future and be king jack" is so boring and easy compared to doing what you said you were going to do from the start and going back to the fucking past
That might have some validity if the action of going back to the past wasn't handled in a way that was clearly a last minute change to the ending of the season. and even then, having the premise be "I'm going to get X" and having the ending be literally just "I got X!" is as easy an ending imaginable, especially in this case when it means you don't have to worry about tying loose ends(like the short thing who guides Ashi) because they never mattered

I am legitmatelly angry and i fapped to alot of ashi porn and seeing her die made me and my dick cry

Did back to the future have a span of years before characters faded away?
Because Ashi was in the past for a MINIMUM of a year and a half

>DUDE LET THE POOR ILL SUFFER IN HIS DEATH BED FOREVER LMAO
>DUDE erase them is worse than them suffering for all the eternity!!
>these people call Genndy a "hack"
What is your problem Sup Forums?

By killing Aku in the past Jack prevented the millenia of suffering under Aku's reign. He prevented intergalactic conquest, slavery, and genocide.

Ashi herself chose not to exist because it meant that a better world could be made instead.

I'm the other one responding, but I was pissed off because I felt like the deuteragonist got scammed out of a happy ending, or even a fulfilling one.
It felt like all her character development was thrown out the window(it was literally undone) just to hurt Jack, which is fine for some nobody character, but don't spend half a season building up someone if you are going to do that to them.

In BttF it was super inconsistent of how long it took to one to fade away so it could be.

Also a year and half? When does it ever make it seem like that amount of time passed? They arrive, they meet the parents BOOM straight to wedding. Shit could have been a couple of days at best.

Just think that if it were "He destroyed the future, everyone died!" Ashi'd have vanished the moment Aku's fortress exploded.

But by now its clearly you're just in a rage mode if you're bothering to reply to every post with more mad.

The ending wasn't bittersweet enough

>In seasons 1-4 Jack would stop short of going back in time to help/save his friends in the future
>In season 5 he just jumps right the fuck in and erases every single friend at once in one fell swoop
>Anons seriously wonder what the problem here is

Well judging by the wedding guests it would have taken a while for invitations to be sent to them and for all of them to travel to Japan from Europe or Africa

I wouldn't say a year and a half

>rebuilding an entire imperial palace and it's surrounding village
>planning a wedding
>sending out invites across the globe(in age of sail this takes a long fucking time)
>waiting for guests to arrive via same methods of transport
>happening in a couple of days at best
Also for the record I'm not the one Ashifag who's been sperging out with buttmad this whole thread.

>Just because aku doesn't kill them doesn't mean they didn't die
But their lives are better and longer, most likely. You can play the "well hey you never know what happens without Aku" card but come on, it's fucking Aku.
>That was not the implication
Well, maybe. We know that all religions are true in Samurai Jack and that the world is definitely better without Aku. It actually did come up once or twice that the current world wouldn't exist without Aku, and IIRC it was always waved off as "come on man, shit'll be way better without aku."
>Various comments going back to the past vs staying in the future
I just don't really agree that him staying in the future would be better character development. It's the obvious choice, Jack can't succeed in his task but learns to move on and live life anyway.

But like, Jack's actual PROBLEM in the show proper was that he couldn't solve his task because he couldn't handle making a sacrifice for it. Not going to the past to stay in the future would still be a sacrifice, it'd just be sacrificing the old world to try and improve the new world which is some timeline shit we could try debating back and forth all night- but they didn't talk about that, period. That was something I didn't really like about the ending, that they don't even discuss the problem with going back to the past. I think he SHOULD because I think it's a more interesting ending with more implications to consider like the ones we're discussing, but they acted like it was a trivial decision when it wasn't a trivial decision the entire series and an opportunity for some interesting character development.

He doesn't jump in, he's forcibly taken in.
However that's arguably worse because it takes the climactic choice out of his hands and does away with any semblance of a theme of sacrifice(considering he didn't choose to give one thing up in exchange for another)

Oh please. He also erases that dystopian and bleak future with no hope so yes, there's no problem.

how many circle jerks are you going to try and start over this?

I think the fact that he would eventually make the decision to change the future instead of helping a friend in the now would make for interesting character development but he doesn't even do that lol

I like the idea that while angsting over changing the future one of the future-dwellers straight up tells Jack that this future fucking sucks and he should get over himself

You don't seem to see the issue here. It's not a moral problem, it's a CHARACTER problem. It completely goes against everything Jack's stood for until then.

As I've said like three times in this thread and not that user, I think the issue is that they don't address it rather than the fact that it happens.

>I just don't really agree that him staying in the future would be better character development
Regardless of which you prefer, him choosing to do exactly the thing he said he would do in episode 1 is the opposite of character development.
And the fact is he WENT through character development this season, and it completely revolved around him going from
>point A: Completely hopeless and believing that the world is utterly screwed since he can't go back to the past, wanting to kill himself
>to point B: deciding life is worth living, there is beauty in the darkest of places, and realizing he has made a positive impact on the world as shown through Ashi, who is now a reason for him to stay in the future
>that they don't even discuss the problem with going back to the past
I want you to realize that futurefags like me are mostly pissed off that he went back not because we hate the concept on it's own, but that it went against the thematic buildup of the rest of the season.

>one of the future-dwellers straight up tells Jack that this future fucking sucks and he should get over himself
Yes I'm sure Scotsman would say that minutes after offering Jack one of his daughters for marriage and raving about how happy he is to have them

>him choosing to do exactly the thing he said he would do in episode 1 is the opposite of character development.
Sort of, but there was a reason he kept failing to do the thing he said he would do in Episode 1 which he literally never gets over. If he chooses to not go to the past again, I think that might also qualify as a lack of character progression. Of course, they do literally the worst thing possible, having him go to the past without a choice or any questioning involved.

I think we mostly agree, just disagree on future/past.

Hasn't the Scotsman helped Jack in his efforts to get back to the past before? Doesn't he know that Jack is trying to get back to the past? I don't think the assumption by all of the characters is "none of us will exist" as much as it is "all of us will be different and probably live better lives." It seems more on-tone with the show.

Ashi should never have been a love interest. She should have been a daughteru.

Bonus points if her origin really was that she was born from Jack and Aku disguised as a woman

But degenerate fantasies aside she should have been a surrogate daughter, not a love interest. She's a fucking kid and he's almost a century

This can all be fixed with a s6 that stars Ashi, having been re-relocated back to the future, travelling the world and writing wrongs and trying to get back to the past to get the Samurai dick

Like Jack, she keeps getting opportunities, but is always confronted with situations where taking them would mean abandoning someone in need

>I think we mostly agree, just disagree on future/past.
Truthfully I'm more concerned about consistency and Ashi living, all other factors are kinda secondary to those.
As in, as much as I've been shilling staying in the future, I would have been fine if cartoon logic had stepped in and let Ashi remain, considering Genndy didn't hesitate to use deus ex machina to solve all of the biggest conflicts this season.
I would have also felt a little less cheated if Genndy had kept the death, but removed prior deus ex machina.
>Hasn't the Scotsman helped Jack in his efforts to get back to the past before
Nah they fought bounty hunters in his first episode, he helped Jack regain his memory in his second episode, and in season 5 rescued him from Aku, none of which are directly helping him find a time portal.
>Doesn't he know that Jack is trying to get back to the past
It's not really touched upon, and in the finale, until Ashi proves otherwise, EVERYONE is under the assumption that Jack is not going back.

introducing a brand new deuteragonist who takes up over half of your final run as the focus character in your hotly anticipated final season wrapping up the show might have been an overly risky endeavor

no dooming countless peoples from thousands of worlds to an existence of servitude to a being of ultimate darkness over a period of thousands of years so that a fraction of those numbers could make an attempt to rebuild the devastated world because they're your friends would be stupid. the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. also it's in the fucking opening and ending songs that he has to go back to the past and undo the future that is aku for like 15 years, you've had time to think about this fucking outcome you complete ignoramus.

The times Jack and the Scotsman meet on-screen aren't their only meetings, though. I just find it unlikely that they'd have this sinister side-plot where nobody knows Jack is trying to go the past and nobody wants him to do this because they don't want to die. It's not that kind of show.

>introducing a brand new deuteragonist who takes up over half of your final run as the focus character in your hotly anticipated final season wrapping up the show AND then throwing her away in the last second, negating all of her previous screentime
FTFY

It's not necessarily sinister, Scotsman could just think Jack is a loony and is helping him out because he's a good friend who humors his pals.

Also anything that doesn't occur onscreen or is mentioned specifically to have occurred is conjecture.

no that's still really fucking sinister
imagine if you were helping your old buddy stop a demon and at the last second he jumps into the past and you only have a second to go "wait hol' up" before you stop existing

i'm just saying, people jump to the conclusion that jack literally committed mass murder by changing the future when this just isn't that kind of show

ashi is literally aku's daughter from the future, there's no way she could potentially exist in the past under any circumstances. Jack's friends could potentially be born in the future anyway and it's not completely unfeasible considering the heavy presence of gods and mythology and destiny in the series.

I mean even if you like the character a lot I don't think killing her negated all of her previous screentime because Jack couldn't have gotten back to the past and undone the evil that was aku without her, the ending is about jack accepting that he'll always have part of her with him and that her sacrifice was worth it

i think another thing worth considering is that if you think that hard about it jack killing aku in the past should have caused a time paradox because the future that is aku never would've happened and jack wouldn't have a past to get to, you can't think too much about it

>you can't think too much about it
Happy endings are allowed to use that excuse, because the logical flaws are balanced by the natural desire to see the protagonists succeed.
When you choose to insert a tragedy though, it has to have insurance so that the audience doesn't immediately feel cheated.

>Nu-samurai jack is fucking shit
Yeah and water is wet, more news at seven