Ay, been listening to these radio plays, found it interesting.
youtube.com
anyone read any comics?
Any recommended?
The Shadow
Jayden Gray
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Asher Taylor
The fans generally agree that the O'Neil/Kaluta comics are the best and that, out of all the current writers for The Shadow, Matt Wagner is the best.
We have storytimes of The Shadow constantly so you might want to stick around for those.
Nolan Russell
Have you bought your weekly supply of Blue Coal user?
James Cook
The best Shadow series, in my opinion, is The Shadow Strikes (1989) by Gerard Jones but I also recommend Matt Wagner's The Shadow: Year One if you're just just starting out with him.
John Cruz
thanks a ton user, maybe with Halloween approaching this would be really well timed
kek
now that i think of it, didn't the Shadow have a crossover with Batman?
Caleb Johnson
He appeared in an old Batman comic but currently he is in DC's Batman/Shadow series. As a Shadow fan I'm not a fan but Batman fans might like it.
Josiah Roberts
You've come to the right place.
>DC's The Shadow
desuarchive.org
desuarchive.org
>Hitler's Astrologer
desuarchive.org
>In The Coils of Leviathan
desuarchive.org
>Hell's Heat Wave
desuarchive.org
>The Shadow Over Innsmouth/The Twilight Zone: The Shadow
desuarchive.org
>The Shadow: Year One
desuarchive.org
desuarchive.org
>The Shadow: Death of Margo Lane
desuarchive.org
>The Shadow: The Last Illusion
desuarchive.org
>Grendel vs The Shadow
desuarchive.org
I recommend all of these except The Last Illusion (kind of boring and doesn't really develop it's premise) and The Shadow Over Innsmouth (which is really just a Scooby-Doo episode featuring the character).
You can also find all the pulps available to read online
bookre.org
oldschoolcrimefighters.tumblr.com
I'm going to see if I can try and storytime issues of The Shadow Strikes next week.
Brayden Parker
>The Shadow Over Innsmouth
Motherfucker!
I'd thought of that exact pun/story idea a few months back and now I find out it's existed for years.
Ayden Lewis
Man, it's such a good series. I feel like it's underrated.
Justin Morris
Related/Unrelated Note
Who here is a fan of the Alec Baldwin movie?
Henry Mitchell
I was not a fan of it at all desu. Dark Horse made a 2 part Shadow comic based on the movie and it's everything the movie should have been.
Gabriel Wright
It's not a very good Shadow movie, but I love it as its own weird thing as a mix of 1990's blockbuster, 1930's screwball nonsense and silent film comedy. And it looks fucking gorgeous. It's laden with references to Golden Age Hollywood classics, right down to the conclusion being a huge Orson Welles references just because they could.
But it's hard to appreciate as an actual Shadow movie, so I just enjoy it on its own as a weird studio artifact that could never get made today.
Chase Lee
I actually really liked it. First saw it when I was a little kid and it stuck with me for years and got me interested in pulp heroes in general.
Plus it's got some good gags.
Hunter Powell
I'd like to see a movie based off the Spider.
The whole character is so bizarre - it would basically be like a horror movie but the protagonist is the creepy masked stalker hunting criminals instead of teenagers who wanted to have sex at the wrong summer camp.
Gabriel Perez
My favourite is still
>Khan makes the guy jump off the building
>cut to Cranston saying 'It's all falling into place!"
Landon Anderson
That conversation between the Cranston and Khan where he's talking about turning the rivers red with blood for fun and then stops to compliment his tie and ask where he bought it.
Austin Roberts
I liked it. It's different from just about every other thing The Shadow was ever in, but it's good on it's own merits. I liked how the origin was over in ten minutes flat and then we go directly into doing cool shit. I fucking wish superhero movies took that tack.
Brody Butler
I CAN HERE IT REEEEEEE
Xavier Hall
Yeah, all their conversations have the patter of classic Golden Age comedy, and intentionally so.
Thomas Gutierrez
Sadly, the comic is not half as interesting as the title implies. For some reason it seems like writers want to cross over The Shadow with Lovecraft but they never really know how to align the two properly.
Even the new Batman/Shadow crossover alludes to it somewhat.
I appreciate it as a fun ride with wonderful set design and for the goofy 90s blockbuster feel, but it's hard for me to shake off my dissapointment at it. It's not a good Shadow movie at all. It's trying to cram all 4 Shiwan Khan pulps as well as an origin story into a very limited runtime and as a result it was unfocused, poorly written and didn't capture at all what made those stories work.
But I don't hate it, and it didn't deserve to bomb like it did.
The Spider is fucking nuts and I think he's one of the better pulp heroes from that time (he's my 2nd favorite).
Charles Flores
I respect that it introduced people to the character but as a fan going in and watching it, I found the fact that the Shadow being somewhat quippy was really inaccurate to the charcter. As well since I am a bigger fan of the comic cannon than the radio cannon, I didn't like that his true identity was Lamont Cranston rather than Kent Allard and that he was actually turning invisible.
Christopher Wright
It was fun. Definitely not the truest adaptation, but i appreciate the effort. I like a lot of things the movie brought to the table, like Margo Lane having innate telepathic abilities. But all the scenes involving the magic dagger were underwhelming at best, and straight up cringe at worst.
Brayden Rogers
>I appreciate it as a fun ride with wonderful set design and for the goofy 90s blockbuster feel, but it's hard for me to shake off my dissapointment at it. It's not a good Shadow movie at all. It's trying to cram all 4 Shiwan Khan pulps as well as an origin story into a very limited runtime and as a result it was unfocused, poorly written and didn't capture at all what made those stories work.
Honestly, I kind of miss that in movies.
Yes, the 1991 movie doesn't really give anything time to breathe but at the same time I prefer it to them stretching things out to a trilogy of 3 hour long movies that have to dive into every characters backstory with huge detail and I worry that's what a Shadow movie would be like if it was made nowadays.
Dylan Foster
I'm actually in the process of writing a screenplay for a Shadow Reboot. Any advice on how to handle the character?
I want to make him a little more fantastical, with powers to cloud men's minds and all that.
John Jones
Like, in an official capacity or just for shits and giggles?
Angel White
something interesting that I've read him do in the past but haven't seen him do often is making his voice sound like it's coming from somewhere he isn't.
Carson Smith
>I didn't like that his true identity was Lamont Cranston rather than Kent Allard and that he was actually turning invisible
I think part of the movie's bigger problems is that they made such a big deal of his identity and backstory when that really shouldn't be the case. When it comes to The Shadow, mystery is essential to the character. Even the Kent Allard identity was said in the later pulps to be just another of the faces he wears. It's part of what makes him unique.
The movie stripped The Shadow of all mystery and treated him like he was another ordinary superhero with a dark backstory. And the Dynamite comics have been doing that too.
>Iprefer it to them stretching things out to a trilogy of 3 hour long movies that have to dive into every characters backstory with huge detail
This is exactly why anyone who adapts The Shadow should stop trying to shine a spotlight on him, and instead turn it into the long-neglected appeal of the series: the agents.
The agents of The Shadow are far more than just plot devices brought up for cheeky references. They were a supporting cast full of relatable, diverse and charming characters all working together. Characters like Harry Vincent, or Cliff Marsland, or Shrevy, and even Margo after readers started accepting her.
These are the people that need to be focused on, because these are the people that allow The Shadow to remain in the shadows, where he is in his element. And their existence is, in turn, what humanizes The Shadow, because it's his interactions with his agents that allow him to show he isn't just a murderous monster, but instead someone who's taking miserables lives and improving them.
But most Shadow fans nowadays don't even seem to acknowledge the agents, because they are stuck in the least acessible medium.
There is a market of people waiting to fall in love with these characters.
Dylan Anderson
Oh man, I had an idea
What if Lamont taught Margot how to cloud minds, and while she can't make herself invisible, she can use it to alter her appearance to gather intel and lose suspicions during,
And when they get the guns out and make their entrance, she could call herself Persona; Woman of a Thousand Faces
Ethan Nelson
Ya gotta make him laugh alot
Nathan Ward
I see where you're coming from how in the movie he was very concerned with people, namely Margo, discovering that Cranston was the Shadow, however, in the modern comics it's more that his true identity isn't even relevant. The Shadow's made comments before referring to Kent Allard as being dead anyway and even people learning about Kent Allard doesn't really grant them an edge.
Jordan Hall
Just shits and giggles but who knows, it might go somwere probably not
Yeah if it were to ever premier at theaters I would want his "Shadow voice" to be played at a variety of audible angles. And of course he also does it to confuse his enemies
Actually that's not too bad.. maybe for a sequel..
Well duh!
Basically the plot is an origin of sorts, of how Margo met the Shadow, as the Shadow tracks down a masked killer that disguises himself/pretends to be other people to lure and kill his victims.
James Price
woops didn't mean to spoiler all of that. Goddamnit
Aiden Miller
Like, officially, or just something you've been experimenting with ?
Because for the past year I've been extensively writing my own ideas for a Shadow tv series (I'm going to start shooting my own short film of the character a few months from now) and I need to know if anyone's getting the chance to do it before me so I can at least get in contact with that person and give them a few pointers.
But anyway, when it comes to The Shadow's powers, it usually varies depending on what version you are going with. He ranges from being mostly ordinary with a few supernatural edges, to a omniscient Jedi Purple Man
In the pulps he was mostly superhumanly good at espionage, with the powers of narrative convenience. Half of what he does because he is written in a world where jet-black clothing actually functions as urban camouflage.
When he does use ‘mystical’ abilities, they’re generally presented as being more about psychology, force of will, and training, rather than as anything supernatural. Walter Gibson had a lot of experience with stage magicians. He did use hypnosis a couple of times (mostly because the radio show popularized that idea), but when they were used in the pulps, he’s always directly interacting with a single suggestee, and usually in a calm and controlled environment. He does use his girasol ring in The Red Menace, to hypnotize a man into writing a confession (Matt Wagner always depicts the ring as his primary hypnotic source), but even then, it usually works only on more ordinary people. Think less "psionic command" and more "forceful and terrifying personality" and you are on the right track.
Gibson preferred to focus on his skills and training. He relied on stealth and camouflage instead of invisibility. He relied on a massive amount of interpersonal intelligence, disguises and observation, instead of being a mind-reader. He wasn't clairvoyant, he was a vigilant and clever man with an army. And so on.
(cont...)
Isaac Jones
Of course, that is how it is in the pulps. The radio show, the comics, and so on are different stories all together.
But one thing I noticed is that it seems like that the versions of The Shadow that the fans prefer (the pulps, Matt Wagner, O'Neil/Kaluta) make his powers minimal but instead focus on his cleverness and will, and the less acclaimed versions (the movie, Garth Ennis, Howard Chaykin) are the ones that just give him a shitload of superpowers. So take of that what you will.
If you do want to write a more fantastical Shadow with the power to cloud men's minds, feel free to do so.
But for the love of Walter Gibson make sure he uses it intelligently;
It’s one of his most important skills that he has, one with strengths and limitations that he needs to consider. Even the radio show knew to tone it down on occasion.
And don't have him just appear as Lamont Cranston everywhere. This character has literally dozens of different disguises that he tailors to each specific occasion. Make sure to use them.
Tyler Price
Present. It was my first encounter with the Shadow, which likely has something to do with it. Since then I've read some of the pulps and comics, and I still like it. The Rocketeer and The Phantom also provide the same kind of fun. That pulp vein is sadly missing in modern capeshit, with the exception of the first Captain America and Wonder Woman.
Daniel Miller
Anyone have a download for Blood and Judgement? Can't find it anywhere.
Hudson Hall
If anything Batman should be the most pulp of them all since he's the modern hero closest to that vein.
>Billionaire playboy who learned skills in the mysterious east and now uses his powers to fight crime in a corrupt city.
Practically reads of a copy-paste job of your standard hero from the magazine age.
Nathaniel Scott
I listened to these growing up because a local news station used to play them in the 90s (until 2001 happened and the news became too important to have some fun for an hour)
The Shadow was always one of my favorites because he got bad guys to screw themselves over instead of actually doing anything to them.
Plus the whole rendering himself invisible to do it was a nice touch.
And it's how I acted when I was a mod on forums/Minecraft servers back in the height of that game
James Davis
Batman is the reason all the old pulp heroes fell off the popularity train.
He's all of them mixed together, and isn't so indebted to the point of time where he was created that he can't be continuously updated.
Luke Carter
What's the opinion on this?
Ethan Wood
>and isn't so indebted to the point of time where he was created that he can't be continuously updated
The last point is something that I think about all the time when it comes to pulp characters, especially The Shadow. And there's constant debates over this in discussion groups. Whether The Shadow needs to be updated to modern times, or if he should stay in the 30s.
And I honestly can never figure out on which side of this argument I am with and it's giving me a lot of trouble.
On one hand, all attempts to write him in modern times have failed (I don't even need to bring up the shitstorm that occured lately). There's definitely a market of people that enjoy period stories and, part of the character's appeal was that he was the avenging force of justice against the oppressive criminal element and the causes of the Great Depression. Today's problems have become far more complex and politically charged and you can't mention them without undergoing the necessity for a political debate that is simply out of place in these stories.
But at the same time, it's not like those attempts to modernize the character failed specifically because they were in modern times, and trapping him in the 30s/40s is limiting. I think the test of a character is how flexible one can be in their retelling. If it wasn't for the myriad of circumstances that led to The Shadow's "end" (paper shortages, Gibson being fired, Bruce Elliot shitting the bed, S&S going bankrupt, comics replacing pulps, etc), the series would probably still be published today. Gibson wrote Shadow stories in the 50s, and his last novel took place in 1963. He clearly had no problem updating the character. It makes sense, to try and find a new audience, to look forward rather than back.
What is Sup Forums's stance on this ?
Luke Gomez
Thanks user. I definitely don't want to over do the super powers but i just love the idea that a guy has the power to hypnotize, so by extension he can "appear invisible" and "know just what you're thinking.."
But i think it's possible to have a healthy balance of both. I want the extension of his powers to be a mystery. And his true identity/origin to remain a mystery. A big reason why I'm writing it from Margo's point of view is so we can have more of a suspension of disbelief because the perspective may be unreliable. Maybe she's exaggerating or confused by tricks of the eye, amazed and enchanted by the dangerous/mysterious man of many names and faces, and as she begins to fall in love with him, hopefully so will the audience
Jordan Gonzalez
It definitely is possible. I very much like The Shadow's powers when they are used right, I'm just explaining what they are and what should be kept in mind when writing them.
Oh, and I forgot to mention: in the pulps, his shadow often defies the laws of physics and appears often like an unaturally dark splotch on the wall. This seems to be a weakness of sorts to counter-act his stealth and camouflage abilities, there's more than one instance of a criminal uncovering his disguise by observing his shadow.
But I definitely agree with keeping the full extent of his powers a mystery.
As for Margo, while I definitely agree that writing things from her point of view allows The Shadow to be presented as more alluring and mysterious, I think it's important to keep in mind that Margo's character is not really the kind who just takes things as they are and accepts them. She doesn't accept everything The Shadow tells her, she doesn't obey all of his orders. She is loyal and reliable, of course, but she is also stubborn as a mule and often gets herself into trouble trying to discover things on her own. Plenty of times The Shadow doesn't know how to deal with her either. That makes for fun banter and a somewhat complicated relationship.
If you want to present The Shadow through an easily impressionable and relatable everyman, I recommend you use Harry Vincent, since he's easily the most loyal and dedicated agent and the one who's more likely to "have his mind clouded", so to speak.
Jackson Clark
I feel you. I feel you.
But i like Margo and I really want to use her. And i think that dynamic you described would work great in a film; plus who doesn't love sexy broad in a noir.
Also: I plan on using an OC villain. Actor gone mad, wears "clay" masks to disguise himself as others to kill his victims. Someone in the same vein as the original Clayface. What do you think about that cool guy?
Cameron Lewis
I really like the original Clayface design and sometimes I wish he appeared more often like that instead of a giant mud monster.
I think that's a neat idea for a villain. From what you described of your plot as an "origin" of sorts, a villain who's more grounded in realism works best because The Shadow started out fighting fairly ordinary gangsters and criminal geniuses and murderers, before he moved on into larger than life supervillains like the Voodoo Master or Shiwan Khan and the more supernatural adventures. Your villain is a fairly standard villain for The Shadow to go after but for what you want to write that's a good thing.
I was able to find three episodes from the radio show that have a similar character to your murderer
>The Jekyll-Hyde Murders: After his mind snaps, a stage actor who plays the role of Jekyll and Hyde takes on the dual personality in real life. Adapted into a comic
>Murder On The Main Stem: Someone is killing off fellow actors and actress out of insane jealousy, but when Lamont Cranston begins investigating, Margot Lane is next on the killer's list.
>The Face: A handsome stage actor's face is burned in a plane accident. When plastic surgery fails, he goes on a killing spree, mutilating women who have seen his current disfigurement.
You might want to look into those.
Angel Morales
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Austin Thompson
>I didn't like that his true identity was Lamont Cranston rather than Kent Allard
The novelization of the movie goes out of it's way to explain that he was Kent Allard before becoming Lamont Cranston.
Gabriel Bennett
It's trash. Just as a comic. Not even as a Shadow comic, which it really isn't.
Isaac Davis
Man, Kaluta art is beautiful
Gabriel Stewart
readcomiconline . to/Comic/The-Shadow-Blood-Judgment
Here's where you can read it online but be warned, I really disliked this series. It's one of the worst ones in my opinion.
Jacob Garcia
>Any recommended?
the last one is pretty great, talks about white privilege and intersectional feminism
Samuel Davis
>Sadly, the comic is not half as interesting as the title implies. For some reason it seems like writers want to cross over The Shadow with Lovecraft but they never really know how to align the two properly.
>Even the new Batman/Shadow crossover alludes to it somewhat.
Maybe a lot of writers nowadays don't understand the appeal of the Shadow and Lovecraft's work. Usually anyone trying to do Lovecraft ends up with squid, which isn't really the point.
You could probably do a good story starting out with an elder-god worshipping cult overlapping with all sorts of criminal and legal power structures within a large City, with the shadow and his agents digging deeper and deeper, and ending with a final standoff between the Shadow and someone who might be empowered by ancient gods, or just has powers similar to the shadow.
but no, before you know it it'd go full Hellboy and the shadow starts shooting oversized cuttlefish.
...has Mignola ever done illustrations of the Shadow?
Liam Fisher
OP here, this is all gold, thank you so much everyone!
and remember, only blue coal is the certified coal to keep your house healthy and warm this winter
Elijah Taylor
i saw that, it was pretty neat. whats it called?
John Smith
The Shadow #1 (2017) from Dynamite.
Jeremiah Wright
You are most welcome.
Brody Morales
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