Why are the nips just so much better at drawing fight scenes?

Why are the nips just so much better at drawing fight scenes?

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Scott McCloud explains that on his book.

Western, or at least capeshit, generally doesn't use "moment to moment" transitions between pannels. So it can't recreate action as well visually (as drama, and as many other things). That gives mangas a more "cinematic" feeling, and that's why adaptations to anime tend to be more authentic to the source material than the cartoon adaptations: the groundwork is already laid out in the manga pannels.

And also, in western, the action is more "simbolic". It's there to convey the narration and little else. You see that civil war pannel you put? We have seen the same pannel millions of times with millions of different costumed heroes. The message is clear and to the point: this guy punch this other guy in the face and that's it. The rest of the information is usually given by the text.

In that specific pannel you put of dragon ball, you know important shit it's happening: there's no motion blur, there's no sorroundings, and the level of detail makes you think that picture took a huge pannel. It gives a feeling of "slow motion" to the reader so he knows that pannel had meaning.

Also, dragon ball doesn't respect anatomy as much, his heavy stylization gives the artist freedom to forget about certain rules in order to give emphazis and drama to the action.

aspect to aspect transitions*

Fuck, it's been a while since I read that book

another weeb west vs east thread

Becauseri manga 50x as man panels on it

Not always.
You ever read volume one of dragonaire Academy

Another thing: capeshit comics are usually more "masculine" in the sense that the plot have more relevance than the characters feeling.

In a manga fight scene, we usually get in the head of the character a lot. We explore his fears, his tension, his plans, his memories about similar situations...that way can be more inmersive and the action usually have more meaning behind.

In a capeshit comic? not so much. If Iron Man wants to punch Captain America, he punch him. The action is delivered without much hesitation.
Are we going to explore the effects of the punch in the mind of Captain America? He took a huge cross to the jaw by a guy with metal fists. Are we going to read about how afraid he is for the safety of his brain after a lifetime of trading punches with superpowered people? Is he going to remember that time the doctor reminded him about the dangers of CTE? Do you think he's going to reevaluate his strategy after that?

Probably not. In the next pannel he's either answering Iron Man with a bigger punch or receiving one. And in few pages the whole thing will be over.

In the manga Vagabond, there's a fight scene that last at least two chapters before any of the characters make a single move. And it WORKS.


Not really. If you count the number of pannels per page, american comics tend to use more. They also put more text to deliver the information. Mangas just take their time to set up the action and doesn't rely on text as much.

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There's always exceptions, but I think OP is talking about the general trend.

I don't think this should be a war, but a chance to discuss the different approachs to a medium we love


About the masculine and femenine thing.

An author once said theres masculine elements and femenine elements to a story.

Masculine = actions
Femenine = feelings

Too masculine = michael bay shit where we don't care about the characters and we only want to see things moving and fast

Too femenine = 50 shades of grey shit where the narrator spends pages and pages and pages narrating with cringe detail how wet this buff white dude makes her.

The beauty exist in the balance of the two.

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Manga is just as dumb as capeshit but capeshit takes itself way too fucking seriously. Manga authors aren't afraid to give characters goofy poses in order to emphasize action or drama.

Looks good. More?

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the west has not accepted speedlines into their hearts

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Why are you posting this shit.

Not really. Capeshit have characters like Deadpool or Spiderman that are not afraid of physical comedy.

Speedlines are a gods gift

Most American comic writers focus on the story over the action,take the fight you posted OP,Millars script tells the artist what needs to be SAID by each character in the fight not what needs to be done,that leaves the artist with the job of making sure everything fits on a page unlike say a mangaka whose ability as an artist AND a writer means the knowledge of when to focus on the fight

For the manga that type of creation carries it's own problems like fights becoming repetive,used to fill time for story(looking at you bleach) whereas I can rarely think of many western fights that drag,also on occasion you get guys like Tradd Moore who manage to craft the action inspite of a word heavy script rather than action heavy

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>Too masculine = michael bay shit where we don't care about the characters and we only want to see things moving and fast
>Too femenine = 50 shades of grey shit where the narrator spends pages and pages and pages narrating with cringe detail how wet this buff white dude makes her.
Huh, that actually makes sense.

It's pretty simple. Nips are better at drawing than Westerners.

When you're able to express so much in a fight scene, you don't need a single word bubble.

I bet a good chunk of the budget went to the voice actors

This shit looks like utter garbage.

I genuinly believe in some cases the writers should be smart enough to just submit

>>[Page 10]-[page 15] Fight,winner :character X

And let the artist role with it

Because mangaka are artists that draw their own stories and capeshit artists are interchangeable and replaceable cogs in the DC / Marvel corporate machine. If Toriyama wants to introduce demons and aliens and gods into his manga, he can just go and have fun with it. Whoever takes over drawing Batman comics can't decide shit because he's just hired hands.

This looks like shit mr weeb

Did he regrow a finger?

Crafting a story is serious stuff and most western artist don't have that skill.

>Vagabond
My nigga.
Also, in Vagabond, fights are a means to an end.
Everytime Musashi has a fight, it leads to character development, it leads to him changing his ways, it leads to him being smarter next time. For example, when he fought "The Demon / Oni / Forgot his name it's been ages" and how he continued after that made the fight make sense and important.

Then we have Marvel and DC. None of it does. I tried reading one of these events, and I found myself either speedreading it, or just outright skipping through most of it.

>le too seriously meme
Oh, it's one of those retards.

At last comics have colors. Why are mangas always black and white?

I would love to see capeshit comics with no dialog. Do you have any example?

>When you're able to express so much in a fight scene, you don't need a single word bubble.
What exactly is being expressed here?

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>guy #1 kick guy #2 in the face
WEW LAD TRULY AMAZING

Cheaper, faster. And some guys just only need black and white to gives us good shit if they are good enough

what's happening in the first panel?

How come neither can have actually engaging fights? The only times I actually enjoyed a fight scene in a drawn medium instead of thinking "oh, it's just an obligatory boring fist fight" were a couple of moments from Punisher MAX.

So do you think good fight scenes are when everything is shown in step by step detail?

Berserk is one of the shites mangas I have ever read

>Why are mangas always black and white?
So its quicker and cheaper to make them silly.

...but the picture on the right looks better?

You ever read Southern Bastards?

Good shit

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Nope. But thanks for reminding me about Aaron, because Dash vs Diesel from Scalped was another good fight. Maybe I'm better off reading crimeshit instead.

Actually, yes. It's more than: it's less about the destiny and more about the journey. And also, since there's no text to read, the information is delivered faster

Vagabond.
Not that guy.
How come?
Yeah, he could've picked any other fight scene from that comic.

Manga>Comics
There is a reason why manga is popular and not comics.

Jesus this is bad. The art is decent but the composition, framing and delivery of the fight is really bad.

O'Neil, Miller and Baron literately were white men who looked East for inspiration and ended up doing it better that Japs ever could
they are Batman

True but I still think that's mostly because lots of western artists for there styles to make cool looking panels rather than sequences,besides I personally feel like good writing super cedes action in the west,the best comic works V for vendetta,Killing Joke,Daredevil born again,All star superman etc there best moments come from the writing the art is secondary

>How come?
It's to long and it should ended like 10 years ago

This is bait but these series of pictures sums up all my issues with these threads and the examples they post.

I don't give a shit about these people. I don't give a shit about why they're fighting, and while a series is not obligated to sell me feelings from a couple of random images, it doesn't even have a hint of feeling.

For sure

how about not reading capeshit

Big guy

That looks like shit.

Comics are not popular, but the characters are.

Yeah read more crimeshit.

Especially fucking Southern Bastards. Especially the first arc.

Manga often has a lot more time to do what it needs to because of sheer page count and most importantly - pricing.

A weekly manga, for instance, averages about 18 pages. That gives it 72 pages a month compared to cape's 22 pages per month. A monthly manga sits around 30-40 pages. This means that manga can have these large fight scenes without fans feeling like it's dragging on far too much.

As to pricing - for less than the cost of one Marvel comic you can get most manga magazines. They're anthologies - you get several mangas within the one magazine. Since the reader feels like they're getting value for their dollar, they don't think it's necessary to compress the story. Marvel/DC comics are difficult to balance; move too fast and readers feel rushed, move too slowly and readers are unhappy with their money spent.
The best example I can give of how much more flexibility manga has is Onepunch Man's manga. gif related is literally an entire chapter - no words, no real plot outside of what can be described in a single sentence: "Metal Knight arrives". And it's fuckin great.

because manga artists study cartooning

western artists don't study at all, and if they do it's "illustration" not cartooning

C.C. Beck talked about this in the 70s, about how the then-new generation of comics artists were just guys who could draw really well but never learned cartooning

That jump is weird. In fact, most 80s comics have really weird fighting poses.

>panel 2: one leg on each side of the guy
>panel 3: both legs behind him
BRAVO

What these threads are actually about isn't fight scenes they're action sequences.

The jump looks like he's doing one of those squat kicks with both legs.

Good shit. Give me source

>t. brainlet

How about the french?

Seems to me that he's kicked the guy's leg out from under him, then swooped it around to take him in the head. It's the same leg that was in front of him in panel 2 that is kicking in panel 3.
Doesn't seem that hard to understand

Nobody here is mentioning any European comics. Even though they have a great track record of quality comics.

source please

>it's less about the destiny and more about the journey
I got nothing from that journey other than I don't know or care about these people and some of that shit looks stupid in the context of martial arts.

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if you are going to do action by action panels, leaving out actions is gonna leave the reader confused

he couldnt have moved his leg from the front to the back in one motion since the other guy's leg is stretched and blocking the path

the easy solution would have been to have the victim's leggin pointing up being bent at the knees

LastMan. It has been storytimed for the past few weeks on Sup Forums. It has its own series:
kimcartoon.me/Cartoon/Lastman
Good luck finding the comics.
It also has a fightan game as well.

YFW the guy that drew this did a thing with Hitomi Tanaka once.

good shit, source man

>I don't know or care about these people
read the full comic
> some of that shit looks stupid in the context of martial arts.
agree, but no one cares.

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Luthor strode I think,read it it's one hell of a ride

>it's another Sup Forums gets BTFO episode.

I advise listening to Carpenter Brut and Death Grips mash-ups while reading LastMan:
youtube.com/watch?v=Wn7gK73uxsM

>he couldnt have moved his leg from the front to the back in one motion since the other guy's leg is stretched and blocking the path
That's why it looks like he's tripped the guy up. The guy is falling down, and not from the kick. He's swept the leg, just like he was taught at Kobra Kai.

block/punch
prepare for trip
trip into kick
reposition, second kick
then for some reason he does a jump.

idk man I don't think it's a great action sequence (the one someone posted for Question is better) but it certainly didn't confuse me.

>read the full comic
So the fight scene is so shit at having any meaning other than being a fight that I have to read the entire comic to get any feeling for the characters involved?

>that pose in the thrid pannel
good shit
>that anatomy in the second to last
wtf

Fucking French guy does better action than all of DC and Marvel comics.

What the fuck is going on in this

The timing in this comic is utterly brilliant, the panels, how he uses the page flips. Not to mention how cathartic this was, seeing Adrian let loose on such a level, Richard redeeming himself. Every hit that connects feels like a truck. It's absolutely great.
It is the same reason why I loved Strode. Thanks user for posting. I need to "re-watch" it.

Most of Sup Forums doesn't read manga,I'm genuinly surprised Noones brought up some same face manga,Togashi scribbles or QUALITY Attack on titan art

If you remove parts of your car, don't be surprised if it doesn't work

I was listening to the song I linked, and the scene and the song and I both climaxed at this point. It was perfect.

pretty much this. Just as an example, these are two pages from Steel Ball Run. You can see how every action gets a panel. A conflict that would've taken a page in a western comic takes about five pages here, but it works the same.

>memerap

It's uncanny how well the music works

>Togashi scribbles
Those don't really count. They're not representative of the rest of the manga or his work, they're just out of necessity because of his back problems.

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It's Tradd moored Style,slim people are slanky and energetic,big guys are huge with muscles out of early jojo,these guys are basically pillar men so the anatomy is out of the ordinary

>If you remove parts of your car, don't be surprised if it doesn't work
You say this as someone posts examples from another comic that manages to make the character involved actually have character in a fight.

So it tells me nothing about the characters and the story, why should I care about it.

Can you tell me how Question or the bad guys they are trying to kill him don't have a character on the fight