It is a "Reed learns that he should put his family before his occupation" episode

>It is a "Reed learns that he should put his family before his occupation" episode
>It is a "Susam feels attracted towards another man and feels uncertain about the marriage" episode
>It is a "Johnny decides to grow up and stop being a man-child" episode
>It is a "Ben feels self-conscious about his appearance" episode
>Wash, rinse, repeat
The Fantastic Four, constantly evolving.

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I mean people think that Marvel is doing this on purpose, but I just think the group was never that great to begin with.
The reason they're not getting any love is because no one wants to give them love. Maybe if one of their 3 movies in the past 12 had actually been decent, we might be seeing them more often, who knows

*12 years

>I'll use SCIENCE to solve this prob-
>shit
>back to hitting it I guess

No you have shit taste.

ITT: Marvel shills agree with a kid that's never read a Fantastic Four comic.

They never know what to do with them, so they recycle stories.
Coupled with the fucking movie rights drama means that Marvel has a very repetitive book in which they have no interest in, which leads to the situation right now.

We'll se how they handle they whenever half the team returns to Earth around the late 20s

thats why cancelling the book is the best decision

I hate Reed so, so much.

You could make that point for 99% of big 2 capes though.

We know, Vic.

t. nostalgiafag advocating for the mediocre 2005 movie and its terrible sequel

>ITT: Marvel shills agree with a kid that's never read a Fantastic Four comic.
Oh, please.

Lee's F4 and Byrne's F4 had all four of those.

Hickman's run started with "Reed learns that he should put his family before his occupation"

Ultimate F4 ended with Sue dumping Reed because she wanted to fuck around with other guys.

Every F4 run had at least one of those.

you have shitty taste.
read this.

zak-site.com/Great-American-Novel/index.html

Okay faggots i'm ready to get into some fucking F4

What runs should I read? Where do I start?

>Every F4 run had at least one of those.
>At least one

And you've made my point. Every day I may take a shit, but not ever day is shitty.

What? What is that supposed to mean?

The point is that the Fantastic Four characters are stuck in this cycle where no matter what they learn in one run, they will forget everything as soon as another run starts just to learn the same thing again.

>Every day I may take a shit, but not ever day is shitty.

I honestly won't explain it any further. That's pretty clear. If you didn't have the comprehension skills of a fucking twelve year old you would understand.

>Some of the best stories came from F4 titles
>Some of the best Marvel villains started out as F4 villains
>Ben Grimm is goddamn awesome and always will be
>Cursed to be stuck with shitty directors so kids these days rinse and repeat what sucks about them going mainly by the movies that never made them popular


Being a F4 fan is suffering.

It's funny 'cause it's true.

>Ben, I figured out a way to make you human again!

Flip for
>aw gee it didn't work, have a nice sulk session
Or
>wow, it worked! But now a typical threat has popped up and instead of calling the Avengers or something you hopped back into the machine and ruined years of my work. Thanks, Ben.

Byrne at least did something interesting with it, what with Alicia secretly having a fetish for the rocky D.

Ah, okay.

"Every F4 run may use the same cliches, which doesn't mean that the stories themselves are bad".

I disagree.

Nope, try again. You can do it. Reading is something we all struggled with at one point or another. For most of us it was when we were children. But you clearly may be that still.

It's easy, too, at this point because you know the point I'm making, you just refuse to accept it.

From the beginning. It can be a bit corny in that old style but they're still good stories.
It starts to lose it's charm around the 90s, when you started getting writers who treated them more like a normal superhero team instead of understanding they were the Atlas that held up the Marvel world. Still mostly decent stories though.

I honestly don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

Enlight me, oh mighty reader!, teach me why being stuck in the same plot forever is actually a positive thing to the Fantastic Four!

>>The point is that the Fantastic Four characters are stuck in this cycle where no matter what they learn in one run, they will forget everything as soon as another run starts just to learn the same thing again.
hi, are you new to big two cape comics?
thats literally every fucking character, ESPECIALLY ones that have been around 40+ years

Honestly, no. Because you've walked back on your own point.

You know damn will it's only a few issues per run like that. You said it yourself.

If you weren't so busy shifting the goalpost every time you type you'd very easily know what I meant by

"Every day I may take a shit, but not every day is shitty."

Just because there's a shit in my day doesn't mean the day is shitty.

You really gotta start with the Lee/Kirby days. It's Old timey and goofy as fuck, but still on point.

>Peter Parker has good things going for him
>Oh shit, time to fuck him up colosally

>Spidey quips and fights villain of the week. Is jovial until shit hits the fan, gets serious, supposedly learns something. Rinse and repeat.

>Hulk angriest one there is, yaaar smash puny enemies
>Smashes
>Gets backstabbed by humans he helped
>Who is the real monster?
>Rinse and repeat

>One of Batman's rogue gallery finds a new thing to do
>Kicks the shit out of Batman, physically or psychologically
>Batman comes back, wins.
>Rinse and repeat

And so on and so on. Your point OP, if there was any, was idiotic.

>You know damn will it's only a few issues per run like that. You said it yourself.
Does it matter? Why every run has to have the same drama to begin with? Why not move on?

Are readers really in love with the idea of Johnny as an eternal child? Or with Sue getting confused about her feelings once again?

That's just what happens with characters user, no character is designed to tell stories for this long. Ideally the story is over when the character's arc is over, but here there need to be more stories told (because money).
Let's say Character X has Flaw Y and over the course of the story he grows and learns to get over that flaw. He's now a perffectionally functiunal human being, and those don't HAVE character growth to be accomplished.
So they hack it up and go back to the original character flaw and do it all over again.

It's just the nature of the beast. No lads, your favorite characters are never going to develop into functiunal human beings and live happily ever after, because you can only do that if the story ends there.
Sure you could develop new obstacles for them to overcome but at what point does that just become another characters' story altogether?

Even outside of comics, when characters aren't allowed to hang it up, they just keep the same issues to stay the same recognizable character, even after they seemingly got over it.

>some big crime figure (usually Kingpin, Bullseye or Hand) does some fucked up shit again
>another girl dies because Daredevil fucked her
>"REEEE I HATE EVERYTHING I FAILED YOU FATHER I WANNA DIE"
>"no Matt it's okay that your life becomes hell on a constant basis and the only ones surviving are your superhero pals and your fatass friend, you should do what's right and kick that crime figure's ass that's what your father would do"
>"wow now I truly (figuratively) see it"
>proceeds to kick that crime figure's ass and pretend life is good
every fucking tiem

while character growth can be a thing (though not a necessary thing), it can't be excessive and it can't be about anything. Characters should have constants defining who they are, beyond their names. And some of those constants will be personality attributes. Ergo, they'll keep facing challenges related to their constant personality attributes forever.
FOREVER.

So, the Fantastic Four is formed by broken human beings who will never move on from their relatively simple problems?

>having character flaws you can't overcome makes you broken

>Overcoming the same flaw again and again and again and again just to return to the starting point doesn't make you broken

The difference is that most other classic heroes have some strong antagonists for the stories to center around. The Fantastic Four have Doctor Doom, Galactus, and a bunch of schmucks.

>Ultimate F4 ended with Sue dumping Reed because she wanted to fuck around with other guys.
>Reed abandons Sue constantly throughout the series
>last time was when she was in critical condition to go blame someone everyone on Earth was told didn't do it
>Ben stays with her as always taking care of her
>she breaks up with the guy who didn't give her the attention she needed
>gets with his best friend who was always there for her
>she's a whore because of this
You either have a very demented take on love, are an idiot, haven't read the comics, or any of the above combined.

She dumped him because, in her own words, she wanted to have "a man in every port".

Her own words, user.

And Reed kept sailing off without her, how do you not get this?

The issue is writers trying to have them overcome flaws that are core to the character. They shouldn't have made the first step at all.

What you propose is even worse.

so, Reed should never pay any attention to his family, Sue should never be satisfied with her marriage, Johnny should never be more than a manchild, Ben should never accept his appearance, and writers should never touch those subjects because "it is part of their personality"? What?

You're part of the reason why they are never allowed to evolve.

Molecule Man, The Thinker, Red Ghost and The Super Apes, The Impossible Man, The Skrulls including the Super Skrull, and The Mole Man are all strong antagonists.

"A man in every port" doesn't mean "A dependable man", it means "A lot of guys". It is a well-known expression. She even compares herself to Johnny.

People on Sup Forums bitch about Batman all the fucking time.

user, a character has core flaws. No, batman shouldn't get over his parents' death. Reed will always get lost in his sciency stuff, sue will always feel neglected because she is neglected and ben who looks like a rock will feel bad about it.

It means she's dating again and done with Reed.

I'm sorry you're so insecure about love that you interoperate this as being a "ho"

Not that user but the Reed and Sue shit really needs to go somewhere, either they split up or sit down and work on getting their fucking shit together.

>maybe if [character] had a movie to shill, we might be seeing them more often
No fucking shit.

Google "a girl in every port", user, you're just making excuses for her.

They have their shit together, that's fucking obvious. Read hickman. They love each other, they raise their kids as well as they can and reed knows not to neglect his family too much and sue knows not to breath down his neck.
They have their shit together.
That doesn't mean reed will NEVER neglect her or that she'll NEVER feel bad about it.
Reed will never not get lost due to science , but that doesn't mean he'll do it to such an extent that there'll be any lasting damage to their relationship. But he's bound to miss a date now and then. And that's fine.

Stop punching reality, user.

She says that Johnny has the right idea about relationships (getting around), she says that she wants to "love them and leave them", she says that she wants a man in every port, and she says that Reed isn't shallow enough for the kind of relationship she wants to have.

You're the only motherfucker that interpreted all of this as "she wants a dependable man".

I'm well aware of the colloquialism. But the stories proceeding it don't match what is clearly just a moment of self reflection and trying to figure out what she wants. If you bother to read the page and not just spin it to fit your MRA slant you'll notice she's entirely unsure of what she wants to do other than leave Reed.

And what follows is her not turning into a ho. Not just sleeping around with random guys she meets. But settling down with Ben.

The only way your interpretation works is if you only have ever read that one page and didn't bother with anything before or after it.

So you admit that she meant "I wanna date a lot of guys"? Just because she didn't follow up on it doesn't she didn't mean it that way.

>They have their shit together.
Just in Lee's run, Sue left Reed two times after they got married, one of those times for Namor.

During the 90's, when Reed got stuck in the Negative Zone, Sue made out with Namor and never told him.

If your wife is always on the verge of cucking you with your enemy, so your marriage needs some work.

Yeah, I don't get why he thinks turning her from slut to slut and airhead is a good move.

>bother to read the page and not just spin it to fit your MRA slant
You showed your hand. And you were doing so well. Better luck next time.

I was clearly talking about hickman's run.

>Red Ghost and The Super Apes
>strong antagonists
this is literally a concept that could only be slapped together during the Cold War

From the very beginning, it was like the start of something brand new and exciting. Nowadays the Marvel big shots doesn't want to know about their existence because "MUH MOVIE RIGHTS" like the bunch of entitled dicks they are.

I'm sure Disney is cool putting FF and X-Men in their cartoons, games and other media. It's Marvel that are the lazy ones.

That is just one run, user. It doesn't change the fact that, canonically, their marriage problems are bigger than "missing a date or two". More like "getting cucked by the guy who tried to kill me and destroy NY a couple of times".

>this is literally a concept that could only be slapped together during the Cold War
That doesn't make them any less interesting or unable to to carry an interesting story.

Jesus christ I get that you morons haven't ever read the books but this is just demonstrating some full on retarded reading comprehension right here.

Sue at that point was only sure of one thing. She didn't want to be with Reed. She was trying to figure out what to do next. She throws out the possible idea of being like her brother, uncaring about emotions and just enjoying the moment.

Did she mean that? Clearly not because she never followed through. We don't get the steps between that and her and Ben getting together but from what we're shown she obviously decided that wasn't what was best for her.

You realize Waid and Morrison have both done these same stories and stated over and over again that Reed and Sue are fine in the marriage, love each other, and there problems are fleeting right?

The only person to really play up the "I'm going to leave you" BS was Millar who also backed away and reiterated that Sue and Reed are happy together and Sue doesn't want anyone else.

Stop projecting your insecurities about women onto a character user.

Pick up one of the Epic Collections reprinting stuff from the 80's like Into The Time Stream

What?

You mean Grant "the only person Sue desires more than Namor is Johnny Storm" Morrison?

You mean Mark "Sue masturbated Namor during Civil War" Millar?

That Morrison? That Millar?

>MUH MOVIE RIGHTS
I still don't get it, they could made tv series instead, also with the Xmen, even put there some of the MCU but no, is better that way? ... they could hire that faggot from Galactica or something like that and made a pilot instead of the fucking Inhumans

The big bucks come from the movies, they don't want to acknowledge the characters because that just gives more money to Fox.

>come from the movies
Wrong, the big buck comes from the merchandising

It's about toy and merchandise rights. Perlmutter only cares about toy money. He specifically bought Marvel for the toy rights.

Ike views Marvel Comics as existing as ads for toys, so when the comics feature the FF or X-Men, he comes down and goes "why are we wasting space advertising other people's toy brands when we could use it for our own MCU brand?"

Did Morrison actually say that?

The sad thing is that viewing it all through toy rights is actually a very smart way of handling the business (see George Lucas), but it breaks down when you treat it as zero sum and get into wars with people who co-own your properties.

But they OWN the toy rights to FF and X-Men.

progress is stupid for big cape characters

We need a thread of just this.
Full on Sup Forums.

Progress is what made spiderman popular, one more day ruined him and now he cant like reach 1 billion in his movie like old times

Not him, but I remember reading he gave hints of incest before 1234, which weren't translated into the series, thankfully.

>"wow now I truly (figuratively) see it"

kek

Morrison did say that in an interview.

He said that Sue has the hots for her own brother, but since he can't fuck her, her subconscious transfer her desire from fire (Johnny) to water (Namor). Reed is just an afterthought on Sue's lust list.

Thats the sluttiest shit i have ever read

That's Sue Storm, user.

Leaves Reed cat for Namor under Lee, makes out with Namor when her husband is fucked in the Negative Zone under Byrne, masturbates Namor behind her husband back under Millar, wants to get fucked by Namor to forget about her brother under Morrison.

But their marriage is amazing because of Hickman's run. Marvel's best couple, let's not forget that.

(Which brings us to the point of this thread. Sue SHOULD have got over it since Lee's run, when she left her husband for a villain. Writers refusing to let her past it hurt her character).

I want to read one and only one thing of Fatastic 4 from modern Marvel, and that's Sue dumping Reed to form a new family with T'challa (all of this after a good while of have been cheating on Reed with a lot of villains to finally notice that she want to have black babies), with she giving to birth a lot of mixed race children.

Toys only sell if they have a movie to promote them and Marvel has to give Fox a cut for toys based on their movies.

I would be okay with this if Reed finally got rid of Susan and started a new family, maybe having babies with Alyssa Moy. or She Hulk, who cares, just him doing the right thing: getting rid of Susan.

So DONT make figures based on the movies??

Also you could make a cartoon to promote it, or a video game.

Look, Sue might not be the best partner out there, with all the "I really want to get fucked by the guy who tries to kill you" thing, but She-Hulk? Seriously?

You might as well carry a "I wanna be a cuck" sign over your own head.

>if one of their 3 movies in the past 12 had actually been decent

moviecasual pls leave

>that one where Ben rips a piece of himself off and gives to a girl

So taking shits ruins your day sometimes? You should go to a doctor of your having that much trouble making a full release. Even 12 year olds know that.

remember when captain america was a tfw no gf fucking neet loser

So, anons. I've read hickman, it's the only ff I've read.
What other good runs are there? For art reasons, I'd prefer from 80s and later, but any is good. Bonus point for slutty outfit eras or stuff including DOOM.

>For art reasons, I'd prefer from 80s and later, but any is good. Bonus point for slutty outfit eras or stuff including DOOM.
You deserve nothing.

No one does.

bump

How do you like doom? Val's godfather who helps now and then or going full richaaaaaaaaaaards and kidnapping sue now and then to put her in a leia bikini?

Say you were chosen to right a Reed series and find him a new partner. who would it be?
Moon girl's mother?

His partner would be science, with Janet as his side chick just to piss off both Pym
and Sue

A woman of science. I think that was a good point for Ultimate Sue.
Moira McTagger when she was alive or that scientist chick that appeared in Hickman's? run would be strong choices imo

blergh, boring. Nerdy lost-in-the-clouds types need an earthly, feminine housewife to balance them out

bump