What does Sup Forums think of Jim Shooter?

What does Sup Forums think of Jim Shooter?

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=5b4IoW85qCk&t=298
jimshooter.com/2011/10/ultimate-comics-all-new-spider-man-1.html/
twitter.com/AnonBabble

I'm pretty sure he's Darkseid in disguise.

The hero Marvel needs.

not all his ideas were great, and sometimes he went a bit too far, but we need more editors like him in comics these days

His silver age Legion was good. His Threeboot Legion was shit.

He got results. That being said he did do some extremely underhanded shit.

Incredibly overrated these days. The good he brought to Marvel was good, but his authoritarian approach created a ton of problems too.

good editor, okay writer, bad person.

He the guy who made a comic based on his experiences in a YMCA where he claims that two guys tried to rape him?

I bet it was the other way around and he was trying to rape two guys.

Would clean house at Marvel and make them competitive with DC once again.

>created a ton of problems
name five

He scares me for some reason. Someone tell me if he did anything to warrant me being that uncomfortable?

I try not to. Thanks for fucking that up, faggot.

>I'm a tourist but let me pretend I fit in
shame you weren't raped in a YMCA

He's just very tall and has acne scars.

He fixed Marvel that was breaking down and brought it to the heights that it never again achieved since. Everything slowly started breaking down after he left.

Created many enemies due to keeping eceryone in line, aka what Big Two needs. Truly the best Big Two EiC.

Medicore writer though.

If you're name isn't James, you have nothing to worry about.

Jim Shooter, the young teenager who got his start in writing Legion of Super-Hero comics, was actually murdered, disposed of and replaced by a notorious Soviet assassin on the run from the USSR.

The Russian Jim Shooter (real name unknown) understood he could use the harsh discipline and murderous enforcement methods he'd learned as a state executioner to revitalize Marvel Comics in the 1980s. It became the perfect cover. See this photo: Steve Englehart knows that if he misses another deadline Shooter will choke him to death with his enormous strangling hands.

Better at management than writing as said. Dumbasses compare him to Perlmutter but forget he was heavy handed but knew what he was doing. Perlmutter is a dumbass running Marvel into the ground and autistically screeching the whole way

Kept Northstar in the closet where he belongs. He's alright by me.

The McCarthy of Comics.

He deserves to be burned in effigy

Sounds like an obscure Batman villain.
>What do all these victims have in common Gordon?

He is a male privileged.

He is height privileged.

He is straight privileged.

He is white privileged.

He is experience privileged.

Shooter is way problematic.

I'm not broke as shit so I have no need to go to need to go to one.

They should get Zachary Quinto to play him in a biopic.

This

I want to see him back in power at Marvel and all the salt that will come from it.

The only problems were created because he thinks only capable, smart persons could reach the EIC status.

Then the 90's happen and Bob Harras get the EIC title.

As Gary Groth put it:"he is our Nixon!"

You don't need an iron fisted EIC to work, as evidenced by DC being such a better place to work than Marvel in the 80's and 90's and showing in the quality of the product.

None of what made Marvel decline in the 90's had anything to do with editorial.

I love the man but a micromanaging EIC is only good for keeping books coming out on time. He was what Marvel needed at the time because half of their writers were stoned or tripping on the job and the new crop of writers were primadonnas, but his style leads to unhappy creators and thus a lower quality product in the long run.

He did some good things, but he had a bad habit of trying to fix things that weren't broken, breaking them in the process.

His biggest sin was making sure writers and artists met deadlines right?

His biggest sin was meddling with everyone's books and micromanaging the line, pissing off creators.

The hero they need and the cunt they deserve.

So exactly what an editor does. Fuck off Bryne.

As Bryne said, Shooter was good at fixing things and setting up order.

But after that, when things were running well, he went crazy making petty and nonsense rules.

>And let us not forget, there was a time when he was a force for good. When Shooter came to Marvel, the company was a stumbling giant, unfocused, undirected, basically a mess. It was the time of writer/editors and fad chasing. Shooter steered the boat back on course, and that was a good thing.

>Unfortunately, having fixed the problems, he had to KEEP ON FIXING. He'd gotten Marvel into good shape, but he could not be content with that.

>Many here are familiar, I am sure, with what I used to say, back in the day. Shooter had become a tyrant with a whim of iron, constantly telling us what we were doing WRONG, with barely a nod to what we were doing right.* Meanwhile over at DC Dick Giordano was a kindly father figure, patting everyone on the head and praising what was not really praiseworthy (which is why DC was such a mess). I thought they should swap jobs every five years.

Comics are a creative business. I buy comics to get a work from a creator, not just a product with a bland house style, or for the character on the cover. I want a story with the voice of the writer and art the way the artist sees the world, not curated stories the way Jim Shooter thinks they should be told or art the way Jim Shooter thinks they should look like. I don't want to just read Thor because it's Thor, I want to read Thor by Walt Simonson.

When Marvel's books are bland and samey and the creators aren't happy, I'll gladly go read Vertigo, Image, Valiant, or even DC instead.

Let's be honest, most of the acclaimed DC stuff from that time has aged horribly.

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I don't agree at all. NTT, LoSH, CoIE, Suicide Squad, JLI, Animal Man, Swamp Thing, Doom Patrol, big creator-focused prestige books like Watchmen, TDKR, and Killing Joke, revamping their entire universe, DC was pushing the envelope in those years. They even gave Frank Miller his own self-owned book. I don't know how anyone could say 80's DC aged horribly when that was basically when the modern storytelling style came to be.

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>NTT, LoSH, CoIE, Suicide Squad, JLI, Animal Man, Swamp Thing, Doom Patrol, big creator-focused prestige books like Watchmen, TDKR, and Killing Joke

Looking back, they were all stunts that hampered the media. Trying too hard to be "mature" looks incredibly self-conscious now.

> revamping their entire universe

Which was another cheap publicity stunt.

> that was basically when the modern storytelling style came to be.

And that's a good thing?

He's a cunt but he's a cunt who got shit done.

He's a dick, and pussies hate dicks.

idk lol

Necessary evil

Lol tell that to your Mum's

>Ongoings
>stunts
Oh shut the fuck up you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. LoSH is a fucking stunt? Jesus christ.

>The McCarthy of Comics.

So a man of conviction unfairly maligned by a punch of whiney hippie faggots even though he was right?

maintaining the respect of your employees is part of leadership.

So is telling a bunch of lazy cunts to shape up or find a new job.

A Marvel biopic would be cool
Ed Norton as Stan Lee
Joaquin Phoenix as Kirby

He was the Eric Bischoff of comics. Took Marvel from a dominating position to creative bankruptcy. His failures came together during Secret wars, while DC was shitting out hot gold.

>while DC was shit

this was linked to me in another thread. Goes over the Shooter/Byrne history

youtube.com/watch?v=5b4IoW85qCk&t=298

>LoSH

The book they kept rebooting because nothing sold? Yeah, that was a stunt you fucking faggot.

Nobody said that.

I didn't know Shooter created Valliant

>kept rebooting
>LoSH v2 had 100 issues
Keep proving you don't know shit you fucking mongoloid.

>My favorite was okay, so that means DC wasn't constantly doing cheap stunts

I hope your daughter gets raped by niggers you fucking cunt.

Alright, who let the retards out of the hospital?

Me.

CAO CAO!!!!!!

I have to finish that show, so good

I could easily list dozens of great stories and series from his tenure which are all considered classics today, but I'm too lazy
Seriously, the only period that comes close in terms of quality was the early Quesada years (excluding the early 60s)
DC couldn't even compete until about '85
Might be biased, because during my childhood in Hungary, 90% of the published comics were from his era

>the thing I claimed was a cheap stunt wasn't actually a cheap stunt so I'll claim characterfagging because I'm too much of a faggot to actually admit I'm a whiny casual bitch

Let's see here >NTT
About 60 issues all told
>Suicide Squad
66 issues
>JLI
Doesn't belong on a list of comics that were "trying too hard to be mature" since it's a juvenile comedy, but it was about 100 issues long
>Animal Man
90 issues
>Swamp Thing
Moore's run alone is 60+ issues, not even gonna bother to look up the whole comic
>Doom Patrol
v2 is 87 issues

Long running ongoings are not stunts you fucking troglodyte. Stop talking about things you know nothing about and read a fucking comic.

Who opened the gates of Byrne Robotics.

>inb4 'muh Marvel does it too!!!'
desu many stuff from that era are still unnecessarily wordy with clunky exposition, across company lines
the worst offenders: almost everything by Byrne, NTT, parts of Claremont X-Men, early Transformers...
the runs that aged best IMO are Roger Stern's Spidey and Avengers runs
so much fun every time I reread them

80s Marvel thread?
what are your favorite volumes of the Marvel epics?
what do you still want to see?
I want some volumes of Spec' Spidey, that series had really underrated stories

But there was a great deal of variety under Shooter.

He was a good manager and an excellent editor - back in the days when being EiC essentially meant being CEO and creative director - and one of the most down to earth guys in the industry. He took an absolutely chaotic and archaic marvel rooted in early 70s organization - untouched since lee - and reformed it. Many changes came up on his own volition and other mainly to compete with DC, this included pioneering early royalties, better work conditions and credits systems and a couple other goodies meant to keep talent on their side, and some distribution and structural reorganization.

He made some gambits - Trying to essentially make toy commercial comics (remember: the kids market still existed in the 80s) that arguably pioneered modern events, expanding the market taking cues from 80s europe and the scene (Epic, graphic novels, contacting Moebius to print his works), trying to diversify Marvel's genre repertoire further with newuniverse. Some of these failed pretty hard (secret wars II, newuniverse) while others managed to last a while or where actually quite sucessful (secret wars I)

He was also creatively by-the-book, undiplomatic and direct regarding what you could and could not do in the company and drawing board. The heavily fame-based comics scene saw that as being a control freak. His inability to innovate coupled with extremely unfortunate post-marvel circumstances pretty much exiled him from comics.

facial scars (and evil eyebrows) are a bitch.

ayy

That's are vastly exaggerating Shooter's problem. If he did it like that, almost none of the Epic's comics would have made it out. Shooter actively sought new markets, sometimes at a loss for Marvel.

His deal was that he was very stern with boundaries he set and pulled Stan Lee's "I'll edit your comics 5 minutes before publication and you don't even need to find out!" on people who threw a fit afterwards. Could he have disabled the fit if he took a different approach? most probably, that's on him and he never denied that afaik. But there's still the deal that Marvel isn't an artist's stomping grounds and they should be throwing hissy fits in the first place.

Oh yes this is a great documentary. Covers a lot of stuff, specially behind the scenes stuff like who owned marvel and how. Shame the author can't keep some of his pet peeves in check.

baby football

> Legendary Marvel editor, one of the creators of Transformers.

> Would make Bendis's life a living hell if he were currently at Marvel.

The important thing to note about the Shooter era is that a lot of the editors under him were also writers and artists. Today we have what, just Quesada, who hasn't been on a monthly in about 2 decades? Those guys knew what it was like to be doing the work, and the writers and artists had more respect for them because of it. Today it's fanboys and girls with english degrees but no actual experience spamming emails to try and make them get their shit on time, accepting the barest minimum of quality (the loss of the bullpen is also a hugely underrated issue)

The irony of this retarded post is that the Shooter era contained some of Marvel's most creator driven works like your aforementioned Simonson's Thor, Miller DD, Claremont and co X-Men, and the Epic line were all under Shooter. Not only this, but he fucking created Valiant.

But dicks fuck assholes (Byrne and Bendis definitely assholes...love that Shooter called The Writer? a lazy fuck).

>Shame the author can't keep some of his pet peeves in check.
nah, him blasting Liefeld was amazing

He may be a bastard, but he's our bastard

>His failures came together during Secret wars

But Secret Wars awesome and a giant success for Marvel.

Yeah, as long as your work was good and sales reflected that, Shooter left you alone. He barely ever meddled with X-men directly, apart from times like vetoing the ending of Dark Pheonix Saga.

>He is straight privileged.

So he is a straight Shooter?

And yet most of the best Marvel runs comes from his era.

Examples

And not allowing people to be editors on their own books.

Examples?

Yo mean this Thor run of which most was published under Shooter? What else was bland abd samey? Miller's Daredevil? Byrne's FF? The height of Claremont's X-Men?

Also Valiant was Shooter's.

Is there a better Marvel editor than Shooter?

Gruenwald, Thomas and Milgrom are usually looked on favorably.

>Gruenwald
Crossing

Kek

Nocenti?

Shooter > Quesada > Harras > DeFalco >>>>>> Alonso

not counting the 1 year they had 4 EiC's. And before Shooter there wasn't a single one either just a bunch of ones working on different books

He's a big guy.

who's all the rest of the guys?

What have Jims ever done to him?

4 u

>pioneering early royalties
Unless you created Wolverine, of course.

jimshooter.com/2011/10/ultimate-comics-all-new-spider-man-1.html/

>Why is Spider-Man not teaching gods how to poop?

Given his reputation, I'd have expected him to be more careful with his line spacing.

4U

Wolverine was created before Shooter

>None of what made Marvel decline in the 90's had anything to do with editorial
lol So Harras as X-Men editor botching relationships between writers and artists didn't lead to the mass exodus of talent? DeFalco incentivizing big sales for editors didn't lead to an over abundance of gimmicks that killed the market? The Clone Saga's problems weren't editorial?