DC has Killing Joke, Watchmen, Sandman, Swamp Thing, Superman Secret Identity etc... what does Marvel have to offer on that level?
Born Again? Man Loves God Kills, Days of Future Past, Wolverine vs Spiderman? Thats it right? Overall DCs output seems better. Prove me wrong co
William Lee
dc even has the best girls
Connor Adams
This was a nice spiderman issue about people living in the ghetto. Its from Peter parker, Spiderman #35 I think by Paul Jenkins.
Come to think of it, this is a much better miles morales origin than the one Bendis gave us.
Kayden Jones
Miller's Daredevil Steve Gerber's Howard the Duck Steve Gerber's Man-Thing Steve Gerber's Foolkiller various Punisher comics at times
Jayden Diaz
People give Paul Jenkins crap for a lot of his 00's stories (and a lot were pretty bad) but his Spider-Man stuff around the late 90's and in 2000 were great.
>Come to think of it, this is a much better miles morales origin than the one Bendis gave us.
Now I'm imagining what it'd be like if a Sentry situation had happened with Miles and Bendis created the character and did one story arc but then Jenkins took over using the character.
John Brown
Were there a lot of Jenkins duds? His first Sentry miniseries was cool and his inhumans was probably the most interesting they have been to this day. I dont remember anything bad except for his second sentry mini
Adrian Ward
LOL only Gerbers stuff? Marvel is truly hopeless
Caleb Wilson
The biggest dud of his was Civil War Frontline. Second biggest dud was that Sentry Fallen Sun comic. And I think there were a few others like the second Sentry mini.
>His first Sentry miniseries was cool and his inhumans was probably the most interesting they have been to this day.
Yeah but I consider those before the 00's (technically, Sentry was published in 2000 but he had to have been working on it during 1999).
Anthony James
Vison is pretty good.
Jayden Bell
America Chavez.
Luke Davis
Marvels Earth X Squadron Supreme Miller Daredevil
They don't have anything as good as DC, honestly. I'd say Born Again is probably the closest they've got and that's basically because Frank Miller wanted to write Batman, but wasn't working at DC yet.
I mean, DC has D-list characters like The Question and Animal Man that have had more meaningful runs than Marvel's A-listers.
Charles Sullivan
So what about Kraven's Last Hunt and The Sin-Eater Saga? Moench's Moon Knight or Benson's? Maybe Simonson Thor, PAD Hulk, and all the great runs on Cap?
Robert Gutierrez
I think Daredevil Born Again might be in the top 5 of greatest comics ever written. Fucking fight me, you faggots
Hudson Bennett
I don't know if it's up the with the same level as the other stuff, but the kid who collected Spider-Man is great
Henry White
I'm not saying they don't have great runs, but I don't think most of them even reach DC's top 5.
Dylan Ross
>I don't think most of them even reach DC's top 5. And what would those be?
Juan Brooks
I put part of the blame on Marvel's terrible trades department. It's hard to build culturally-known stories when something is only in print for a year
Logan Martin
Fucking This
Henry Rodriguez
Watchmen TDKR Sandman Doom Patrol Saga of the Swamp Thing All-Star Superman Kingdom Come
Those are probably the top top, I'm sure I'm forgetting some. It's just hard to say anything Marvel has put out in the same regard are up there with those aside from maybe Born Again and Miracleman.
Mason Robinson
I kinda think Marvels is better than Kingdom Come but not the rest.
Zachary White
>Watchmen >TDKR >Kingdom Come These aren't runs user. And why Doom Patrol of all of Morrison's work? I'll certainly say that O'Neils Question and Ostrander's Spectre are fantastic run that could have been easily included.
Henry Wright
We're not talking about runs specifically, just stories in general.
Brayden Gutierrez
The homeless chick. That fucked me up. Dex star tier.
Alexander Sullivan
Ennis' Punisher Max, Fury my war gone and X-Statix would be up there.
Christopher Parker
I agree
Lincoln Morris
Bendis' Daredevil, Vision and JiM would be close.
Matthew Brown
Then Marshal Law. Countdown To Dark, Marvels, and both Mircaleman and Born Again as you brought up as well as Fury MAX My War Gone By as this user mentioned. All of which I'd argue are close in quality to the best of DC's top five.
Tyler Reyes
>Then Marshal Law. Countdown To Dark, Marvels, and both Mircaleman and Born Again as you brought up as well as
But if we count Marshal Law then we have to count Preacher and Transmetropolitan
Caleb Bailey
Why? And it wouldn't change anything.
Julian Davis
Bendis DD has not aged well.
Christopher Bailey
How?
Julian Carter
Those three are all-creator owned. It's like do you count Moonshadow as a Marvel book or a DC book? Cause it was over at Epic in the 80's then had a new story in the 90's at Vertigo.
Gabriel Miller
Fuq your self, The prison arc & mr. fear arc were amazing
Parker Gutierrez
When I said homeless chick I meant with the spiderman newspaper clippings.
Zachary Russell
that's why Marvel has sold move comics since the 70s
Cooper Morris
The initial Marshal Law mini (And best) was published through Epic. And more importantly while I love Transmetropolitan and Preacher they're hardly of the same caliber as Marshal Law PAD has a lot of good Spidey stuff.
Kayden Baker
>DC has Killing Joke, Watchmen, Sandman, Swamp Thing, Superman Secret Identity DC has Alan Moore, Alan Moore and Alan Moore. Neil Gaiman has written for Marvel too and Kurt Busiek has more Marvel stuff than DC stuff, I think. The Difference between Marvel and DC is that DC treasures its good stories more and constantly show off their existence. Marvel's good stories get lost in time, because even Marvel forgets about them. I love Silver Surfer Requiem.
Nicholas Hall
sorry meant >PAD has a lot of good Spidey stuff. for
Angel Gonzalez
nah, it's just you letting your hate for Bendis get in the way
Michael Diaz
>Neil Gaiman has written for Marvel too two stories to pay for his lawsuit to get Marvelman back from Todd McFarlane
Ayden Cooper
Gaiman's Marvel stuff is nowhere near Sandman. Silver Surfer requiem was complete thrash.
Jayden Cook
Born Again and TDKR came out at literally the same time
Landon Torres
>Kingdom Come not even close
Jayden King
>I kinda think Marvels is better than Kingdom Come I disagree, but I can still understand why you'd think this.
Jackson Brooks
>Gaiman's Marvel stuff is nowhere near Sandman. No one said it was. >Silver Surfer requiem was complete trash. Can you give me an argument as to why?
Luis Morgan
What two stories?
Noah Morgan
Eternals and 1602
Zachary Rodriguez
Oh neat. 1602 was one of the choices for a free trade amazon was offering me.
Anthony James
It was overly melodramatic, had some of the worst written and paper thin faux philosophy, with no real story. Nobody has ever given any reason why it's good. Forced feels do not provide a good substitute for a bad story.
Blake Garcia
the art's nice
Brayden Myers
Had I paid more attention when I first looked at the lidt I would know that.
Jayden Baker
*list
Jordan Brooks
1602 was so fucking bad. It was clearly written as a thought experiment, not with any sort of interest in the characters.
Mason Johnson
I have never read a bad story by gaiman regardless of format. I should give this a look to see what his bad stuff is like.
Ian Gomez
Also Gerber's Defenders and Greunwald's Squadron Supreme
Grayson Gomez
2010's Journey into Mystery?
Logan Robinson
I'll bite Kraven's Last Hunt Classic Strange If you mention DoFP you ought to include a shitload of Claremont's X-Men in that list OG New Mutants Several runs of X-Factor The original Wolverine solo Age of Apocalypse Fucking Savage Sword of Conan Miller's Daredevil Punisher MAX and Barracuda Fury MAX
>Overall DCs output seems better I still kinda agree tho
James Johnson
Spider-man at least has Kraven's Last Hunt and The Child Within's stuff with Harry.
Gavin Collins
Simonson's Thor Robert Rodi Thor mostly For Asgard and Blood Brothers Runaways Annihilation, and Annihilation Conquest which are better events than anything DC has done Supreme Power Rage of Ultron
Hunter Taylor
>DC >best self contained series
>Marvel >better longer runs
at least that is what I've noticed
Matthew Perez
I don't think Marvels and Earth X have been mentioned.
Lucas Robinson
The recent vision run is criminaly Underrated.
Austin Rivera
It would appear I was wrong I got nuth'n
Jace Mitchell
also Kirby's FF Lee and Romita's Spiderman mayybe a couple runs of X-Force and Morrison's X-Men
Nolan Murphy
The fact that Annihilation and Annihilation Conquest belongs in a list of deep comics is laughable. 90% of comics you've listed do not belong here.
Josiah Davis
except then you bring in stuff like Morrison's Batman and his other longer runs, all the Vertigo runs, O'Neil's Question, Moore's Swamp-Thing, Perez's Wonder Woman, and others, and Marvel again falls behind
which isn't to say Marvel doesn't have good longer runs, but DC has both volume and quality over it
Jackson Watson
Morrison's X-men is over rated.
would you count Ditko Dr Strange in that list?
Aaron Davis
>Annihilation, and Annihilation Conquest which are better events than anything DC has done
No.
Austin Scott
It's not like DC's A-lister like Superman, Wondy, GL and Flash have HAD a shit ton of good runs. A-lister are always destined to have mediocre runs.
Grayson Collins
what are better events?
Austin Gomez
Wonder Woman has actually had quite a few high-quality runs
also it's funny you didn't mention Batman
Henry Lee
There are no good events in the first place.
Brody Sanchez
Crisis on Infinite Earths and Final Crisis are both good.
Justin Adams
Born Again was concurrent with DKR and Miller had already done some Batman with O'Neil in Wanted: Santa Claus-- Dead or Alive Casuals deserve to be gassed.
Wyatt Clark
No one will because you're right.
Isaac Johnson
Sure, and while i kinda agree, it's still very enjoyable and I would put it before say, Earth X
Carter Lopez
Maleev's art for one thing. So stiff and static. The paneling is not very good either, though that's likely Bendis' fault. >Prison Arc Wasn't that Brubaker or did Brubaker start writing when he got out of Prison?
Joshua Cruz
both those arcs are Brubaker
Caleb Cox
That's not called not aging well.
Logan Nguyen
Gillen's Journey into Mystery
Christopher Peterson
Deep in terms of themes? Can't say there's many. Not that they didn't drop deep themes or got philosophical they were always limited to a single arc. X-Men is filled to the brim with them (and that's where the "x-men are an allegory for racism / homosexuality / etc come from), but like I said, small enough to cause ripples yet not big enough to be seen as such.
Only full series I can think of that go all out on themes are X-Men Legacy Vol. 2 and Foolkiller. Squadron Supreme could be but I haven't read it.
In a way it reflects how most marvel themes are character specific while dc works with archetypes and ideas. There's no idea behind Captain America. There's only Steve Rogers.
Wanna do a comparison.
Watchmen is pretty much on another level. Nothing marvel compares, and nothing DC either. TDKR is comparable to Daredevil on quality. Both are Miller at his prime. Sandman isn't really DC - it may factor in it but it was though specifically as a standalone thing, there's no denying DC's non cape corner came out much better than Marvel's Epic imprint, despite having some crazy potential. (Morrison's) Doom Patrol. I'd say the Sienkewicz era New Mutants, specially legion stuff. but unlike DP, New Mutants had a tendency to have one bad arc - one good arc right until the end. 80s Strange is also crazy. I haven't read Swamp Thing, can't really make a comparison. I'd say X-Men Legacy vol. 2 stands up to All Star Superman Earth X blows Kingdom Come to smitherens if you take both as "playing and deconstructing with the company's themes". If you take both as "love letters to an era", marvels is a worthy contender. To add, to things I feel Marvel outdid DC at was straight out fantasy and sci fi. classic Thor, Strange, Eternals and Fantastic Four, plus the space X-Men stuff, did things I haven't seen on DC, or simply outperformed them.
lol gringoshit doesn't even compare to a single euro nation much less the world.
Asher Allen
The Death of Captain Marvel is and will always be one of the most underrated comics ever made.
John Nelson
there's a whole load of comics from that general era that are great, come to think of it
Asher Martinez
hey look another tripfag to filter
Matthew Garcia
>lol gringoshit doesn't even compare to a single euro nation much less the world. kek, especially considering that the very best burger comics are usually written by british people
Jace Foster
>Superman Binder/Maggin with Swan (anything Swan drew was good), Kelly, Morrison >Wondy Marston, Perez, Azzerelo (though this is divisive) >GL O'Neil/Adams, Marz (HEATfags HATE him, find out how he revitalized the franchise with this one simple trick), Johns (some people hate the rainbow Lanterns though) >Flash Fox/Infantino, Messener-Loebs, Waid, Mannabooch
Fucking read comics
Angel Nguyen
don't forget Busiek on Superman
Manabooch Flash is mediocre
Ryder Powell
It was a lot fresher back then, the murky style is pretty big especially on the indie side these days
Leo Cruz
>hasn't filtered Bismuth yet Lol you must be pretty goddamn new
Kayden Davis
I prefer Manabooch to Waid, I don't even like Waid that much he made Wally's whole character MUH LINDA, but I know I'm in the minority there. I also forgot Johns (Wally only, his Barry sucked and was unfinished)
Cameron Price
he just hasn't posted something annoying that I've seen recently
Nathan Collins
>Maleev's art I personally love the art. But what about the David Mack/Bendis arc? I find that one extremely compelling. No one can show trauma like Mack can and that kid was messed up
Matthew Martinez
They're only great if you read nothing but contemporary capeshit. Most of those arent a quarter as good as Sandman or Swamp Thing. That's what the discussion on this thread was about. Also >No silver age Superman but adding shit like Kelly
Leo Bennett
all those Wondy runs are great
making Sandman and Swamp Thing the baseline when they're among the best is retarded
Jose Murphy
>Binder/Maggin with Swan >Not Silver age Nigger what?
Bentley Ross
Read the thread, faggot. It's a thread for great comics, not good or decent comics. Even if you compare to the best capeshit out there, those WW runs still don't match it.
Jaxson Allen
Perez and Azz Wonder Woman stack up with the best
I haven't read Marston
Christopher Brown
Didn't read Binder. My bad.
Jose Long
If you don't rate Hard Travelin heroes or Binder Superman you can go fuck a rake dude. You also have very clearly never read Perez Wonder Woman.
David Scott
Final night if you can ignore how bad the ending js