Alright you faggots, time to settle this:

Alright you faggots, time to settle this:

>The universe was created by God.
Go on, debate me, you atheist faggots.

I dare you.

You will lose.

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youtube.com/watch?v=S7CV3jSpsAQ
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Alright you faggots, time to settle this:

>The universe was created by Kek.
Go on, debate me, you atheist faggots.

I dare you.

You will lose.

Mother Nature is all truth.

Sorry, achmed, have no time at the moment. Those mosques won't burn themselves down, you know. Cya!

Alright you faggots, time to settle this:

>This thread was created by a faggot OP
Go on, debate me, you atheist faggots.

I dare you.

You will lose.

I'm fine with that.

Still waiting for atheists to come defend their dearly held belief.

Pantheism is a lie.

It can be refuted.

Creator and Creation are fundamentally inseparable. There is no difference between the Universe and God. The very fabric of space is sentient.

>The universe was created by God.

Do you have any evidence beyond a book cobbled together from Iron Age folk tales, or do you just expect me to take that without proof?

wrong, if you mean to imply that God began to exist.

What the fuck is Pantheism?
I'm just saying that you can find the truth in Nature.
Nature is neither good or bad, and it's objective. We need to live with nature not against it. We are a part of it, even if we want to be or not.

sure:

>1. Everything that begins to exist has a cause.

>2. The universe began to exist

>3. Therefore, the universe has a cause.

That cause would have to be a timeless, spaceless, immaterial, uncaused, extremely powerful and personal entity.
Or in other words: God.

I can also explain why each and every of these characteristics is unavoidable, if needed.

Atheism isn't a belief, it's a lack thereof.

True, God created the universe, but he's gone. He left us. He wants us to become Gods ourselves, Gods to rule this universe.

There's many religions on this planet, how do you know which is the right one?

Pantheism is the belief that God = the universe.

Many believers who are shy to admit it find a compromise in Pantheism.
Einstein, for example, is said to have been a pantheist.

Human consciousness created the universe. The universe exists only in perception.

Objectively Neutral here. I with mediate the debate lad. I am neither for either side. Including agnostic or gnostic.

You imply causality for the creation of the universe but do not explain what created God.
You have to realize that the first cause has to exist outside the realm of causality entirely.

Tell that to the millions of faggots who wear the title as a badge

the monotheistic ones

That argument is hard to refute.

Everyone here knows that god isn't real. Everyone here knows that religion is needed in society to give people values and a moral code. Religious texts were created to scare people into not being greedy, selfish, degenerates. It also gives you a sense of belonging

While i think the notion of an invisible man living in the sky controlling everything we do is absolutely mental, the culture that is created by codes of conduct passed down through religion is essential for society, giving people a sense of belonging, and doing your duty for your fellow countrymen.

Sadly Germany is basically a non-country made up of degenerates, so can never understand the feeling of pride of being who you are.

Fact: I created God. I just forgot how.

Proof: Humans forget stuff sometimes, especially complex things.

More proof: Humans exist, supporting my previous proof.

There is no indication of a supernatural cause. That our Universe and locale happen to be the perfect conditions for life is the result of a number of possibilities. 1. Our Universe is in the "Multiverse" which means everything possible that will happen can happen in any given scenario. The "likelihood" of possibilities represent split Universes in this infinitely complex construct.

The Supersymmetry theory says that the Universe is constructed of certain folds and functions but is pretty much a giant geometrical collection of patterns.

The CERN testing of the Higgs Boson found the particle had a mass that was somewhere between the scale of Supersymmetry and Multiverse.

>Atheism isn't a belief, it's a lack thereof.
On the surface that may be true, but atheists themselves often seem to forget that.

>There's many religions on this planet, how do you know which is the right one?

That question would justify a separate thread.
Short answer: there are alot of unique properties of christianity which single it out from all the other religions, both in doctrine and in the actual events that lead to its formation.

Wrong Atheism IS a belief. It is a CHOICE. It is the natural reflection of religion, and just as ignorant in my opinion.

What can be claimed without evidence can be dismissed without evidence

Leave out the epistemological willy whilely loophole speak, one of the things I always hated with philosophy. Is that every argument that's a paradox of any kind is always established as if I agree with the premise.

As a buddisht ass nigga, I'd suggest that you follow the razor and assume there is no god until you are presented with one. So if one of the thousands turns out to be true, you'll have the best chance to slip by into nirvana

I did say that. See Doesn't refute the argument that God created the universe at all.

A number of points against what you said:

The multiverse leads you nowhere. You'd be caught up in the same infinite regress as before. You'd still need a cause for the multiverse.

Only way to circumvent this is by admitting that there had to be an uncaused cause: God.

And no, obviously the universe could NOT come from nothing.

I know what you mean, I share your opinion, but what people mostly mean is that "atheism" wouldn't even be a thing without "theism", sort of like the concept of allergy against peanut butter only makes sense in a world where peanut butter exists.

>2016
>subscribing to an ideology and agenda that is designed to benefit elites
ISHYDDT

the universe is god, it creates itself and it is a never ending repeating playthrough from big bang to big crunch

>americuck
>christian
>calling people ignorant
My fucking sides

Playing devils advocate here, why is it a given that the universe was created? I'm sure atheists use the argument "we didn't know where fruit flies came from until we figured it out"

no. god is a bearded old man in the skies, dummy

You will need to be more specific. Without knowing exactly what you mean by "God", the meaning of which can vary wildly from faith to faith, sect to sect, and even person to person, it's impossible to confirm or deny any assertion on the matter. Without a clear definition either side of the argument can just place the goal posts anywhere they like, and thus end up talking past each other rather than too each other.

Love is meaningless without vulnerability.

By allowing us to reject Him, God became vulnerable to it. This authenticates His perfect love.

Once you understand this, you will begin to understand how to love God.

What if, for the time being you're both wrong.

Gilbert Ryle made a false equivalency when he said abstaining from the debate was also equal to disbelief. But saying you disbelieve a claim is a negating answer to the question. Something abstaining does not do, answer the question.

So here is my talking points.

Athiesm cannot disprove or prove the existence of God with science. Supposedly God created the environment so what would you be looking for to disprove or prove his existence?

Religious cannot claim to know that their text has maintained its literal integrity and has not been skewed, removed or destroyed.

Athiesm cannot claim to know God doesn't exist without first knowing everything. Which is impossible.

In the book of revelations it says the church is supposed to appoint the anti Christ as the messiah, throwing out any rational position to support the church. Making their beliefs either Protestant, Calvanist or Puritan.

The law of causality disabled both scenarios that
1 The universe has always existed.
2. The universe was created.

Resulting in infinite regression of events.

Morally it's unjust to enter this debate because neither side has any actually infallible claims to support their primary arguement. So it's immoral to hold either position. Millions have died because of them.

Truthfully it's unsound because neither side has the pieces required to make an actual defense for their inconsistencies regarding their logic.

Rationally it's irrational to believe or disbelieve based upon no evidence because it's under the definition of reckless behavior. Something broadly accepted as irrational and highly dangerous.

This is not a centrist position, I am not in the debate. I protest the debate, because I have absolved the point that neither side can actually win unless God makes God infallibly known. In which ironically the lack of God not making God known is also another possible scenario. You don't HAVE to believe anything.

wow, kill yourself

>2. The universe began to exist

wrong

No - I imply that there is an infinite "Source" of everything that simply Is - and that is the only thing that really exists eternally. Everything else is transient and ever changing.

Everything is born of it. It's authority is absolute.There is nothing else. It is made of pure consciousness. You can consider "souls" to be an fragmented "aspects" of "The One", and the whole point of existence in general is achieving Gnosis and returning to the "Source" that you came from. That's the big game. That's what all religions are ultimately talking about.

There is no such thing as causation. Only correlations.

>1. Everything that begins to exist has a cause.

[CITATION NEEDED]

Your mind games don't necessarily reflect reality, ahmed. Our monkey brain understanding of causality already breaks down at the quantum level.

Proving a negative bait threads? Never change, faggots.

>heheheheh where did the universe come from if god didnt make it?

where did god come from then?

>th-th-th-th-thats unknowable!!!

and of course it's your subset of a subset of a subset of a religion that this god is

Impossible to have correlations without instigated events causing a reaction. Hence nothing is a coincidence. Everything happens for a reason. Directly or indirectly. Nothing makes sense with your position.

What causes nuclear decay?

So, Zen Buddhism? I completely agree with you.

Temporary physical state. Reacting to its environment. Everything eventually dips down into a neutral state. Energy dissipates.

All the scientific evidence points to the universe having a beginning.
I'm basing none of what I'm saying on scripture. It's all backed by reason and scientific evidence.
If you have a specific question, please feel free to ask.

God = the uncaused, timeless, spaceless, immaterial, extremely powerful and personal creator of the universe.

Regarding the "goalpost", today it's just about whether or not God exists. Which God isn't relevant today, I will be content with buttfucking the atheists only today.

Depends on your definition of god

I believe the universe has a form of conscious beyond anything we can comprehend and it is woefully indifferent to us

no man or religious text created by man will ever come close to understanding it

Every religion is wrong and apart from Christianity they are all shit

No you need to stress that the creator has to exist out of causality your points were as follows
A. Cause and effect
B. Universe is an effect
C. Therefore God is the cause.

What it needed to be
1. Everything has a cause
2. In order for the universe to have a start point something out side the realm of causality had to knock over the first domino
3. That then, is cause

Alright you faggots, time to settle this:

>The universe was created by FSM.
Go on, debate me, you atheist faggots.

I dare you.

You will lose.

Take a look at my talking points, both of you should try to round your arguments and defend yourselves with better prepared premisis.

Why would there be only one first cause, why wouldn't there be several first causes, and thus several "gods"?

Checkmate op

Theres no proof that it is real. A book is not proof. You cannot claim theology, a creation of humanity, as fact.
Preach your religion, just don't get buttblasted if someone thinks differently or points out a flaw in your beliefs. Then you're no better than muslims x

>And no, obviously the universe could NOT come from nothing.

Then, the god you posit is not needed:
>That cause would have to be a timeless, spaceless, immaterial, uncaused, extremely powerful and personal entity.
Or in other words: God.

Your theory is fucked because if the stuff (time, space, matter) did not already exist your god would have had nothing to make the universe out of. So by your own argument god is not necessary for the existence of the universe.

>>The universe was created by God.
Just one simple question.

Which one? Assuming there is a god is one thing. Being certain a specific religion got it all right quite another.

Yes I'm familiar with the big bang, the best scientific explanation for the beginning we have. What I asked was why you assume the universe was created just because it probably had a beginning. You jump straight to
>The cause must be a god
All the while knowing all the other things that we didn't know the origin of until we figured it out

not according to all the scientific evidence.

then you are basically talking about God. I don't see much difference to what I described earlier in this thread.

I never said it was "unknowable". In fact, the very nature of my deductive argument -if true- implies an uncaused cause.

>Athiesm cannot disprove or prove the existence of God with science

If we could PROVE God existed 100%, there wouldn't be any room for faith. That's the beauty of it. It wouldn't be a virtue otherwise.

>The law of causality disabled both scenarios that
Don't you see that you are running in circles?
OF COURSE there had to an uncaused cause. Otherwise you'd have infite regress. To say that causality would somehow disallow the existence of God is a self-defeating argument.

>You don't HAVE to believe anything.
That is true. And do you remember what Jesus said on the cross?
"Father, why did you forsaken me?"
Even Jesus himself had doubts, so it is perfectly OK for us humans to doubt the existence of God.

Athiesm, agnosticism or Gnosticism is the same as religion.

They're irrational positions to a question cannot be answered by man without omniscience.

It's just as irrational to disbelief based upon no evidence then to believe based upon no evidence.

on this dark and dreary day,

let us see if kek will play:

if it be dubs let kek speak truth

but if it be singles i lose a tooth.

So answer me this o lord of kek:

Was the universe created by you?

Christianity isn't even the oldest religion though. There are religions that have been around a lot longer than Christianity and still have many devotees today.
I'm sure there are a lot of unique properties of Hinduism which single it out from all the other religions, both in doctrine and in the actual events that lead to its formation. But that doesn't mean that Hinduism is right and Christianity is wrong, or vice versa.

>better prepared premisis
my premises are literally the Kalam Cosmological Argument, the most robust and unrefuted argument in defense of theism (arguably) to have ever existed. I'd say that's a good premise.

>Using a capital G for gods plural
You realize God is in some ways, his name? That's like saying Peter created the universe so we can all be Peters like him. Your retarted. God is capital G because God is God's name.

I wouldn't say it's a choice, I mean did you choose to stop believing in Santa or did you just realize one day that it was bullshit.

I do believe a higher being created the world, but I'm not convinced it's the Christian God.

how about this.

Black holes are so powerful in their gravitational pull not even a single particle of light can escape at the event horizon time, because it is relative does not exist, yet a black hole emits particles continuously in what is called a firewall. A black hole is simultaneously pulling every single molecule whilst releasing molecules in what is called the apparent horizon.
The current theory is that the black hole is holding onto particles and then releasing them in intervals, now because time is relative, and time does not exist in the black hole what is the interval these molecules are being released in? It would seem in the space created by a gravity hole the rules of the universe do not apply.
What if that's God's realm, the outside of causality?

really makes you think huh

Then reply to this

Miracles are evidence. Not entirely reliable, bit still potential evidence nonetheless. So you can't just dismiss it, I gave evidence, now prove to me it's all a hoax.

...

In what way does it benefit elites?
>inb4 muh donations
Porn industry makes WAY more than church. NoFap is only saving you money.

Have you ever personally witnessed a miracle, or did you just hear about them in sunday school from an adult looking for excuses to be close to children on sunday morning?

The "god of the gaps" domain keeps on shrinking doesn't it?

God is an infinite regress as well. If god created the universe who created god. And if noone creates him then noone has to have created the universe

So? Just because you refuted his argument doesn't mean you've refuted his conclusion!
Also
>I learned how to debate from YouTube atheists the post

I'm saying that everything is God.

We are literally God experiencing itself from a subjective perspective. The "cosmic joke" is realizing that everything is part of the same one thing. Look into holographic universe theory on holofractal.net.

Is there a name for people who don't care about this theists vs. atheists shit?

You don't get to use science, you adhere to the principle of transcendence.

The universe is infinite
Your meme man doesn't exist

>Everything that begins to exist has a cause
Okay, so who or what caused God to exist?

youtube.com/watch?v=S7CV3jSpsAQ
qed

Is that what Zen Buddhism is?
I consider myself open minded, but not really religious though.

Occams razor, my friend.

Something can not come from nothing, therefore it has to be created. Since nothing can't create anything, it had to be created by something. That "something" would need to fulfill the following qualifications:
timeless, spaceless, uncaused, immaterial, extremely powerful (I think these are self-evident) and personal.
Let me explain "personal":
I established that we are talking about something immaterial. What is immaterial, yet exists? Numbers, for example. Or minds. Numbers certainly don't have any will of their own, so we are left with a "mind", a "personal being".

I'm not arguing about a specific God right now. However, it can be shown that Christianity makes most sense, overall.

I'd have to refer you to the necessary characteristics of the cause of the universe:
timeless, spaceless, immaterial, uncaused, extremely powerful, personal.
One could of course argue that this alone wouldn't justify the description "God", but I think it does.

Yes, rationalists.

But is the present which we all experience being projected from the end of time or the beginning? Or both?

Did you witness anything in history? How can you believe anything? How do you know it's not all a lie. Everything you think you know can be broken down until we reach the point where all you have is faith. There is no proof that this is even reality, that I'm real, that your real. You simply believe that. You know nothing.

apatheism i guess

I dont want to and you can believe anything you want to believe as long as you are a good person

if god is real, why do muslims exist?

i dont understand what you meme are you insulting me or calling me smart?
are your synapses firing senpai?

farts are food ghosts

DISREGARD ALL ARGUMENTS FROM THE RELIGIOUS SIDE AND ALL EVIDENCE FROM THE ATHEIST SIDE MOMENTARILY

Which side has the better culture you would want to be associated with? Pic related vs. video games and carl sagan

I'm not really so concerned with what other atheists believe. All I know is that I remained unconvinced of the truth of any particular religion.

That doesn't mean I'm making the claim that there's no god, just that I haven't made the jump to believing in any particular religion. People seem to forget that "I don't know" is a perfectly valid answer to a question

rips

Alright you faggots, time to settle this:

>The universe was created by a big ass explosion.
Go on, debate me, you atheist faggots.

I dare you.

You will lose.

How do you refute pantheism? Sorry if you already answered that.

Also, in your 3 points that begin with
"Everything that begins to exist has a cause" I'm quite unsure if the preposition holds (therefore afecting all your system), because we don't really witness anything starting to exist, we only see changes in our already existing system (the universe).

For all we know nothing really is created, but rather changed based on other things. We can even draw a paralel to the universe, in wich no energy is created, only it's form is changed.

He is the being supposedly absent of a need to be created. Through his omnipotence he can be created without needing a creator, because the laws that apply to everything else, do not apply to him. Now this is where that arguemnet falls apart, because what if the universe itself can exsist absent of a creator? This leads us to a stalemate. But their are other arguments that are better than this one that lead to a more clear answer.

Is half of Americunts from r/atheism or some shit wtf
how do you guys live with yourselves
also
*tip*

...

then you're an atheist
lack of belief in a diety makes you an atheist