>I also maintain that those who are punished in Gehenna [hellfire] are scourged by the scourge of love. For what is so bitter and vehement as the punishment of love? -Saint Isaac the Syrian
If you don't have a church near you but want to go worship, email Ancient Faith Ministries
The original Church: ancient, Apostolic and unchanging. Questions welcome.
If you want to attend church but don't have a parish near you, email Ancient Faith Ministries.
For those who "want to believe," but can't, here are some things you can do. If you do them, it will greatly facilitate you achieving first-hand experience of God, which is an important part of Orthodox faith.
>Read three chapters from the Gospels every day.
>Pray the Jesus Prayer whenever you are waiting or have nothing to focus your mind on.
>Pray the Our Father first thing after you wake up, every morning
>Every time you are tempted by anger, lust, or anything else, follow what the monk does in this cartoon: youtube.com/watch?v=XP0J2eDPIjU
>Make the Sign of the Cross a few times every day, which is praying with your fingertips.
>Come to Divine Liturgy every Sunday.
>Read Psalm 50 every night (Psalm 51 in non-Orthodox Bibles).
Bump for interest. I just learned about Orthodxy about 2 days ago. Watched a video by Father John Oliver from Tennessee. Found his teaching to be refreshing.
Jacob Ortiz
Have any questions?
Colton Morales
Question 1: Is Hell a real, literal place? Question 2: Are Hell-bound souls tormented in fire for all eternity?
Parker Lewis
>> scourged by the scourge of love
What does that mean?
Matthew Jenkins
1. Hell is heaven. God's energies are described sometimes as wrath, other times as love, sometimes as light, other times as fire. Whether they are agony or bliss depends on whether or not you are working with them or against them.
2. We don't know. It's considered quite fine to hope not, but not fine to presume not.
Lincoln Cruz
It means that the radiating light of heaven, of God acutely existing in every fiber of your being, is precisely the same thing as the torment of hell. It's unpleasant either because you hate God, and his love (like Satan, for instance), or because, like Judas, you acutely feel every wrong you've done and God's love makes you filled with intense shame, so much shame you can't face him even to ask forgiveness, so you turn away and are grieved by his love.
Landon Harris
Hmmm.... Gonna take a while for me to wrap my head around all of that. As a Baptist, I've always been taught about eternal damnation, etc. So you're talking about a completely different concept.
Thomas Gomez
Yes, our concept is different from both the Catholic and Protestant conception. They believe hell is separation from God, we believe nothing can exist at all without God permeating it. For us, Hell is the full and perfect realization of God permeating you.
Also, note that in the West, Sheol (Hades in the Septuagint and NT) and Gehenna are both often referred to as "hell", but for us, Sheol and Gehenna are distinct concepts.
Ok. So is this Hell that you're describing different than the "Lake of Fire" that Satan and the Anti-christ are thrown into?
Justin Peterson
>Sheol and Gehenna are distinct concepts.
Oh interesting.
That actually makes sense to me, though it's going to take a while before I "get" the rest of what you're saying.
I need to put what you're saying into context with the story of Lazarus and the rich man in hell.
Brayden Nelson
No, that's what it is. God, in Orthodoxy, when you are in negative relationship with him, is described as fire (Hebrews 12:29), and God's love is seen as unpleasant (Proverbs 25:21-22).
Here are from our prayers before Communion
O Thou Who givest me willingly Thy Flesh as food, Thou Who art fire, that doth consume the unworthy, Burn me not, O my Creator, But rather enter Thou into my members, Into all my joints, my reigns, my heart. Burn up the thorns of all my sins. Purify my soul, sanctify my thoughts.
Behold, I approach for Divine Communion. O Maker, burn me not as I partake, For You are fire consuming the unworthy. But cleanse me from every stain.
But burn up with spiritual fire my sins, and grant me to be filled with delight in You, so that, leaping for joy, I may magnify, O Good One, Your two comings.
Tremble, O man, as you behold the divine Blood. It is a burning coal that sears the unworthy.
Angel Carter
Can I pivot away from Hell and ask about the Orthodox view of The Second Coming and the so-called "rapture"?
I assume the Orthodox church believes in the Second, Literal Coming of Jesus.... ?
To Earth?
In the clouds?
For an extended parousia?
Cooper Torres
Lazarus and the Rich made takes place in Hades.
Gehenna is the torment that takes place after the second coming. Hades is where you go in the mean time. But even those in Hades can receive mercy. But they can no longer do anything on their own behalf, but we believe we can petition for them by ascribing our works to their name and praying for God to have mercy on them. So long as it is before Christ's Second Coming, and they died in Christ, there is still a chance for redemption. This is very different from Purgatory, because we don't believe they can "pay off" their sins through suffering in Hades; neither do we believe you can "pay them off" through indulgences.
Adrian Morris
Wow. That's beautiful.
It's a beautiful concept.
It makes me think of the conundrum when Moses wanted to see God. God wouldn't allow it because if Moses had gazed upon Him, he would have been instantly killed and burned up.
Colton Sullivan
We don't believe in the Protestant "rapture"
We believe Elijah will return to earth from heaven to proclaim Christ's Second Coming, and will be martyred for it. After the Second Coming, there will be a literal Resurrection; there will continue to be a material universe, but it will be unfathomably transformed, and there isn't much you can do to speculate on it except for analogy, describing things as paved with gold and incense everywhere, etc. Man will no longer by subject to the material, the material will become his joy and "toy" so you speak, serving all his delights and imagination (for those who have been purified). Not in the service of carnal appetites, but in spiritual and artistic beauty.
Easton Nelson
To add, I think that prayer balances the "Fear of the Lord" and the "Love of God" more perfectly than anything else I've seen.
Adrian Lee
Moses did see God, but God's *energies*, which in Orthodoxy, is God as immanent and permeating all things, as opposed to God existing infinitely beyond all matter. Remember how Moses's face shone so bright he had to wear a veil? That was God's energies permeating and shining out of him, that is what we believe halos are. But of course, as you pointed out, you have to be very spiritually pure take bliss in these, otherwise that light feels like a fire.
This also, by the way, is the key theme of the Transfiguration, when Christ reveals himself in his kingdom.
Josiah Mitchell
Sorry it's taking me so long to respond. Trying to digest all that you're saying.
MANY of the things you're saying are 'clicking' with me. > After the Second Coming, there will be a literal Resurrection > there will continue to be a material universe, but it will be unfathomably transformed > Man will no longer by subject to the material > Not in the service of carnal appetites
I think all of that is spot on. That's been my vision of "Heaven" for a long time. ie... not sitting around on a cloud playing harps, no "pearly gates" with Peter outside holding a key, etc...
Your descriptions are beautiful. Are you clergy?
Brody Ortiz
If you'd like to, by the way, there is a recent novel about this, called "Laurus". It's an Orthodox novel about a man in the Middle Ages who ends up tempting a woman into fornication and living with her out of wedlock, which in turn leads to him keeping her a secret, which in turn leads to her and his child dying in childbirth. He devotes the rest of his life to living for her (since they are one flesh), devoting all his life and acts to her and his son, so God will give them salvation.
Nathan Smith
Ok. So God permeates all things, even in this temporal world?
I'm not sure about that one.
It's probably not worth arguing. But I've always imagined that after the Fall, there was a veil separating us (and this world) from God. We are poisonous to Him and not worthy to be in His domain.
Jesus came and pierced that veil. And when He comes again, the sky will "roll back like a scroll" -- ie... that veil will be removed.
This understanding (the temporal, fallen Earth being separated from a Holy, eternal God) is how I would explain the atrocities that happen here every day. ISIS, terror, animal cruelty, child abuse, etc, etc... God is not the ruler of this plain -- Satan is.
But if you're saying that God permeates all things here in this temporal, hellish place... I would have a hard time explaining all the evil and agony.
Not arguing with you. Just thinking/wondering out loud.
Hunter Roberts
No, I'm not. But I'm a convert and converts have to learn a lot before they can into the faith.
Orthodoxy is all about the reconciliation of heaven and earth, which is accomplished in the person of Christ, who is both God and Adam (remember, "Adam" is not just the guy from Eden, "Adam" is Hebrew for "Man"). We use alters and incense, because that is how the angels worship in Revelation, and we have a Cherubic hymn which says "we who mystically represent the Cherubim". An Orthodox Church is meant to show earth and heaven united, the Dome is heaven and Christ inside looking down, with angels around worshiping with us. The ground is earth. And Communion is the full consummation of this, flesh and spirit being reconciled as God intended.
Luke Perry
In Orthodoxy, things cannot exist without being sustained by God. If you aren't sustained by God, permeated by him, you'd immediately ceases to exist. You might be spiritually estranged from God, but he is always there, sustaining you, only you are too numbed by the fall to feel and see it acutely.
Evil and agony is caused by not working with God's permeating. Working with the permeating is called "synergism" in Orthodoxy. Working against it is called sin, which in Greek, Hebrew and Latin (unlike English) is a term which literally means "to miss the mark".
Christopher Bailey
>Orthodox General
Before I forget... your thread says "Orthodox General". Are there many versions of Orthodoxy? Are they mostly similar? How do I know which is more "right?"
Landon Perry
I went to Orthodox church earlier today. Girlfriend is Greek.
Jordan Peterson
> Orthodoxy is all about the reconciliation of heaven and earth > Christ, who is both God and Adam
Right. Right. Agreed on all of this. Revelation is all about "fixing" what was broken in Genesis. And the rest of the entire Bible foreshadows that reconciliation. Spot on.
Joseph Moore
so why did you guys split from the church in 1054?
Michael Gonzalez
No, there are not multiple versions of Orthodoxy. We just don't have centralized management, like a Pope.
They split from us, actually.
Robert Harris
>he worships anyone other than Jesus Christ Heretics, the lot of you.
Owen Martinez
As far as I understand it, as someone who grew up as a russian orthodox, there are many 'nationalities' within the church (greek, Ethiopian, Russian), but they are all orthodox first. The service is the same, and what's more, the service has been the same for over a thousand years, whether to go the church in syria at the turn of the 11th century, or in Chicago in 2003. We are all orthodox first.
Benjamin Myers
We worship Jesus Christ through the saints, we don't worship the saints themselves before God in any way.
Julian Perez
>We worship Jesus Christ through the saints Explain what this means specifically. Why don't you just worship or pray to him directly?
Evan Reed
In what book is this story in?
Carter Ross
Why are Tewahedo (Ethiopian & Eritrean) called Orthodox? They're extremely heterodox in practices (kosher butchering) and their scriptures are significantly altered with books used by no one else.
Grayson Williams
>"Synergism" I take it that this "permeating" is related, but different than the indwelling of the Holy Spirit? > things cannot exist without being sustained by God. If you aren't sustained by God, permeated by him, you'd immediately ceases to exist.
Ok. Will have to wrestle with that one. If what you're saying is true, the God is in literally everything. Every molecule. That makes it difficult for me to understand how the demoniac of Mark 5 got possessed in the first place. The paralytics. The lepers. The blind. The children who are mutilated by ISIS. The kitty cats that are burned alive by evil people......
Those are random examples. But I explain those atrocities by the absence of God. I've always understood that Satan is the ruler of this world (2 Cor. 4:4). And that's why suffering is the status quo.
William Hughes
Awesome. Glad I don't have to track down a dozen different Orthodoxys and figure out which one is right! =)
Liam Peterson
It's sort of like an ambassadorship, like asking your friends to pray for you in hard times. And over that, it fosters the union of the Church even after death.
Agreed with both of these.
Did you like it?
Samuel Hill
To be honest, the whole deal with the Saints is the reason I've never given Orthodoxy any credibility. May just be ignorance on my part, but it seems very wrong on every level.
Just like having to confess to a priest. Or praying the rosary to Mary. Or worshiping idols.
I have a very difficult time imagining that John the Revelator would have prayed to Paul or Peter while he was on Patmos. No. He would have prayed to Jesus, and Jesus alone.
Liam King
Hmm, I wasn't aware anyone other than God himself had the power to receive and hear prayers. Not sure I can buy that one unless there's textual evidence out there.
I imagine he would have as well, though he probably had time for the saints, too. I think of praying as more akin to asking than worshipping. I can only provide some answers, though. Ultimately, it's your choice.
I will say, however, that if it is credibility you're looking for, the orthodoxy has it in spades. We have erred before, of course, as the Church is made up of humans, and humans sin. But despite this we are the most consistent and the most truthful of all the denominations.
Asher Sanders
^ Agreed. From what I've seen, there's a LOT that I like about Orthodoxy. But I'm really unsure about the over-emphasis of Saints and Icons. Seems very un-Jesus to me.
Jack Roberts
Jewish Kabbalah and ferences in the Talmud suggest that all evil sprung from angels cast out of heaven, they lack the creative force and can only manipulate what's in creation, they are a step short of the Lord. Evil can take up residence spiritually in the demonics, lepers etc, but there physical structure is created and permeated by the Lord. Disease is in nature and it's arguably gods will, so the lepers still are supported by the Lord as he permeates them, and as soon as their spirit is aligned with the Lord they are cured. That's why Jesus would only give displays and healing to the faithful but not the pharicees ( the wicked generation). God is all, he's inside you and outside, the begging and end. He's the only omnipotent God who can never be fully comprehded by the human mind. The only entity that can exist on its own and without the support of another.
Jayden Powell
Verses backing up veneration and intercession Exodus 18:7 Joshua 7:6 1 Kings 13:6
They were originally Jews before converting. Kosher butchering is something cultural, not something they hold doctrinally.
The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is what is received upon initiation into the Church through Baptism and Christmation
Sure!
Wyatt Gomez
>We have erred before, of course, as the Church is made up of humans, and humans sin. But despite this we are the most consistent and the most truthful
Wow. Much respect. Thanks for the authenticity.
>he probably had time for the saints, too.
Ok. I'm sure he did. Patmos would have been pretty boring. But Why?
What would have compelled John to say a prayer to Peter?
I may just be missing it, but what in the New Testament would even give someone the idea to pray to another dead apostle?
Again, not trying to be argumentative at all. Just trying to figure out where this idea originated.
Asher Sullivan
Sure, but what about those extra scriptural books detailing the new Ark of the Covenant?
Isn't that extremely heretical? All other churches use the same NT books.
Joseph Ross
The Orthodox don't believe in a dogmatic canon. Dogma for us is only what Christ personally imparted, and he never imparted a canon. A canon's acceptability is determined by whether or not it infallibly witnesses doctrine.
Logan Miller
> all evil sprung from angels cast out of heaven, they lack the creative force and can only manipulate what's in creation
Yep. I can go with that. The Book of Enoch and Genesis 6 follow those same lines.
> lepers still are supported by the Lord as he permeates them, and as soon as their spirit is aligned with the Lord they are cured.
See... this is one of the reasons I'm not content with being a Baptist. You read Jesus' promises of what will happen when the Holy Spirit is poured out... healings, miracles, etc. And the early church demonstrated all of that. But what happened?! Why is the entire Western church so pathetic and impotent today? I assume it's because of sin and HORRIBLE doctrines being taught from the pulpits. I think we've lost Jesus. And we've abandoned the Holy Spirit.
That's why I'm searching. And that's why this thread has been a blessing to me. (Thanks guys.)
Are there healings in the Orthodox church? Like really? Not like the blasphemous, phony Benny Hinn spectacles... but like real, honest-to-God healings and deliverances?
Cooper Kelly
ultimately your view is wrong because orthodoxy is older and less corrupted than your neo-reformation 21st century cuck paganism.
better luck next time kiddo
William Perry
How do I choose an orthodox church? Are all ethnicities equally as accepting? The main ones in my city are russian, greek. antiochian, romanian, serbian and ukrainian.
Henry Kelly
Are you serious? Just anything flows as long as you claim you're orthodox? There's no consistency here.
Martin Luther was justified when he tore out the Deuterocanonicals and "questioned" the 4 NT apocrypha?
Are the Tewahedo correct in their claims that they possess the Ark of the Covenant, and that in fact a new one was made?
What's next, are Jews now also Orthodox, since they only tore out a few books and added the Talmud commentaries?
Christopher Myers
>He's the only omnipotent God who can never be fully comprehded by the human mind. The only entity that can exist on its own and without the support of another.
Very interesting. I agree with this.
Despite what many Baptists will tell you, Jesus did not carry a big, black KJV under His arm.
Having said that... does the Orthodox church prefer one (English) translation over the other?
Are there any especially helpful "extra-Biblical" works that the Orthodox church hold in high (Scripture-level) regard?
Like perhaps the Didache?
Elijah Fisher
bump
Sebastian Wood
>Verses backing up veneration and intercession >Exodus 18:7 >Joshua 7:6 >1 Kings 13:6
Hmmm. I just looked these up, and I'm not seeing it. The 1 Kings passage, yes. I see intercession there. The others, no.
But it's ok. Something I need to study more.
I'd be way too terrified to pray to anyone other than Jesus anyway. I'm sure I'd do it wrong, and would NOT want to offend God. As described earlier:
> Thou Who art fire, that doth consume the unworthy, > Burn me not, O my Creator, > But rather enter Thou into my members, > Into all my joints, my reigns, my heart. > Burn up the thorns of all my sins. > Purify my soul, sanctify my thoughts.
Love and fear......
Asher Richardson
I'm not disagreeing. As I've stated, that's why I'm here. Searching.
Not sure why you have to be so snide and sarcastic about it though.
What do you mean by "better luck next time?"
Matthew Flores
You don't understand. We're not Protestants, we don't derive our teachings from Scripture, we derive them from their being orally passed on through bishops (who, according to Christ, will be prevented by making any alterations by the Spirit of Truth). Whether or not you're Orthodox is determined by your teachings. Scripture, is rather, validated by testifying of doctrine. Ethiopian and Syriac (who have a *shorter* NT than everyone else, missing several Epistles and Revelation, whereas the Ethiopians have more) are in full communion, because they teach the same doctrines. Their Scriptures are different, but that doesn't really matter, because the fundamental doctrines are the same.
We prefer the King James Version, except they use the Masoretic text for their OT. The Bible we officially use in English is a NKJV modified to accord with the Septuagint.
The Liturgy is the authoritative stance of the Church, regarding both tradition and the meaning of Scripture.
Eli Lopez
>What do you mean by "better luck next time?"
next time you live on this earth mabye youll choose the right religion
Joseph Hill
Still with us OP?
What is the power of the "Jesus Prayer?" I saw someone in a video explain that when you get on the right "wavelength" -- for lack of a better term -- that it becomes some kind of transformative, almost cosmic experience.
That kind of weired me out, but it left me wondering if there was some special power in it.
Mason Adams
Read about "The Way of the Pilgrim", very popular book in Orthodoxy.
Lincoln Rogers
Cool. Thanks. That was recommended earlier, and I added to my Amazon cart.
Lincoln Taylor
> we don't derive our teachings from Scripture
That made me gasp a little. Wow. That statement would get you 100 tongue lashings in every church I've ever been to. LOL.
NKJV is probably my favorite, though I don't really know much about the Septuagint. I think that was done by Jerome?
Juan Lewis
Ha..... and you call ME "kiddo."
Christopher Myers
Well, in case we get pruned, thanks for a helpful thread guys. I really appreciate it.
Came here looking for Trump news, and got Jesus instead. On Sup Forums!?!?!
Is this the Twilight Zone or what?
Chase Morgan
Luke 5:32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. Not making a comment on Trump one way or the other, but as far as Sup Forums is concerned I think that's apt.
Luis Morales
The Hebrew word for what Moses did with his father in Law is literally "worship". Hebrews knew innately the difference between the worship due God and that for esteeming men, but both were expressed by bows and kissing and such. Christianity made a terminological distinction between veneration and worship (originally, actually, it was between "worship", the weaker word,"--as addressing a superior as "your worship"--and "adoration", the stronger word, but the latter is weaker today, and the former much stronger).
Praying (as in "prithee") to saints is just asking for their intercession. Even if they perform miracles, it's only like people as Moses did: they perform miracles by praying to God. But Saint John Chrysostom warned people that while asking for the intercessions of saints is good, you shouldn't rely on them, because God will sometimes turn down the requests of holy men when it comes to intercession (citing that Moses's petitions to God for the sake of his sister were of no avail).
The bowing to the ark shows that even the Hebrews venerated sacred objects.
Grayson Russell
threadly reminder that Russian and Ukrainian Orthodox Churches are both completely infested and corrupted at the highest levels with former KGB agents, informants, and collaborators
even Patriarch Kirill himself worked for the KGB
there are a lot of documents pertaining to this in the Mitrokhin archive (which was made public earlier this year) and more details are coming out as researchers pore over the tens of thousands of documents
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gleb_Yakunin this priest was excommunicated for releasing information on collaboration between KGB and Moscow Patriarchate as well as KGB code names of top people in the church including Kirill
in the 1980s he spent 5 years in a KGB prison and another few years in a labor camp for defending the Church against communist subversion
there are plenty of genuine lower level priests like him but the leadership is rotten to the core
Carson Wood
No, Jerome translates the Vulgate, which is a Latin translation from the Hebrew. The Septuagint is the Greek translation, made a couple of hundred years BC. The Masoretic text is the authoritative text used by Jews of the Middle Ages. The Septuagint and the Vulgate actually are much closer to each other than either is to the Masoretic text, which indicates the Hebrew text of Christ's time was different than the one used by Jews in the Middle Ages.
Elijah Ward
Agreed.
> but as far as Sup Forums is concerned I think that's apt.
...As for practically ALL of the internet.
Adrian Jones
The priest was excommunicated because he made accusations of Kiril being KGB without ever substantiating them. He did not substantiate with any documents, only claimed to have once seen some. In reality, this claim is extremely unlikely, because the Bolsheviks did make a bid to control the Church, but most of the clergy did not cooperate, so they were imprisoned (the Church under the Bolshevik control was called the "Living Church"). However, most faithful Russians recognized the Bolshevik-run Church for what it was, and so refused to attend. During WWII, Stalin needed the Church to boost morale, and the Bolshevik-run Church could not do that, so he released the imprisoned clergy and gave the Church back to them: the clergy that gave in and served the Bolshevik run Church were allowed their former positions, but only after they did the penance of Apostates.
Luis Myers
And this has relevance how? Oh wait. It doesn't.
Grayson Johnson
Just adding something for lurkers
John 1:5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
Ecclesiastes 1:18 For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.
"The most important thing that happens between God and the human soul is to love and be loved." - Kallistos Kataphygiotis
Hunter Rivera
Beautiful!
Brandon Foster
This one is important in regard to the second
>For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death. 2 Corinthians 7:10
Henry Smith
>"worship", the weaker word,"--as addressing a superior as "your worship"--and "adoration", the stronger word
Thank you for making this distinction. It has deep meaning to me -- far beyond what the words state at face value. God has worked through you in this thread.
Brody Reyes
Then I glorify God, and I am happy.
Jordan Parker
What would you say to the Baptists who teach "Once Saved Always Saved?"
Charles Clark
Sage this thread
Justin Ramirez
>/og/ - Orthodox General
Any of you like "orthodox" i.e. Theravada Buddhism? The Thai Forest Tradition is surprisingly present in many Western countries now.
Xavier Perry
It's wrong. Everyone will face judgement, being baptized and believe in Christ is not enough. Every sin that you did not Confess to a priest in life, you will be charged with (John 20:23, Matthew 18:18). If you did not do good works in Christ's name, you will be charged for that.
Joseph Lopez
>Every sin that you did not Confess to a priest in life Except for sins prior to baptism, obviously. Baptism wipes away all prior sins and initiates you into the covenant, but that's a one time deal
Carter Diaz
>Every sin that you did not Confess to a priest in life
Oh. So you have to confess your sins to a priest and not directly to Jesus? I thought that was a Catholic-only thing.
Austin Moore
FWIW... I reject Once Saved Always Saved too. I think it violates many themes of Scripture. Not least of which is Free Will.
Angel Garcia
Orthodox Confession involves you Confession to Christ, on your knees, but the priest is present, standing at your side. It's true we don't face or address the priest in the Confession, but he's still important because Christ set up his Apostles as his representatives for Confession. This is really important, not just because of the "Sacrament" (a Latin translation of "Mystery," which has much broader and, well, "Mystical' applications in Orthodoxy). The priest's job is to council you and make sure you actually confront your sins and do what you need to to overcome them, going over why you did this sin and how to not do in the future, and if it is repeated then why you failed, and what you can do to become stronger, etc. It's crucial.
Leo Brooks
By the way, we also sometimes use prostrations in contrite prayer to Christ--this is not like Muslims, though, they are active: you go to your knees, make a prostration, stand up, go back to your knees, make another prostration, and so on. Saint James the Brother of the Lord (the older child in pic related) was said to have a forehead so calloused it looked like a camel's knee, because of how intense his prostrations were (but outside of that, he was so serene it was said that when he sat down he looked as if dead).
Mason Hughes
I'll add that we don't do prostrations on Sunday, because they are seen as mainly an expression of remorse, which should not be used on Sunday since Sunday is to be a day of joy. But in mournful services on weekdays, they are frequently used in churches that don't have pews. They are also used at home, especially on fast days.
Andrew Torres
Was Jesus responsible for the fall of Rome?
Chase Fisher
No, the early Christians were actually supportive of the Roman Empire, even when they were being persecuted, even if they had strong enmity toward particular emperors or the city itself or the declining morals.
Andrew Carter
Nah, if anything they could have saved themselves by being better Christians. When the barbarians waltzed into Rome, they found manicured men far too used to luxuries and peacetime. They were far too soft, at that point. Obviously, there's a million different theories, but don't underestimate the importance of this one.
Kevin Evans
Thank you for this. Totally foreign to me. I literally can't imagine myself ever going to a priest to confess. But will explore it further.
The early Christians Confessed to a priest (or bishop--priest and bishop were the same office in early Christianity, becoming distinct offices a few decades after Christ's death, because Christianity grew so fast the bishop could not minister to everyone in his jurisdiction alone). This is what Christ is establishing in the verses I referenced in relation to it. However, one thing is different: in early Christianity, you had Confession in the presence of the whole congregation, and the bishop who absolve you. That was later changed to just in the priest's presence, the reason being there was a concern that people would not be nearly as forthcoming in front of the entire congregation.
Hope you enjoy the cartoon.
Lincoln Walker
By "to a priest," of course, I don't mean like how Catholics do it where you face the priest during the Confession. You go to a priest to confess, but in his presence you confess to Christ. Without this, you might keep doing the same sin over and over and over and over and just keep confessing it on your own; with a priest, he can say, "Look, you keep fixating on this sin and your behavior is not changing, we have to figure out how to address that." Priests are oversight to ensure the flock is living the Christian lifestyle (which obviously none of us can do perfectly, but some "Christians," just completely disregard it, whereas our job is to continually improve and become better and better Christians).
Camden Anderson
Wowwwww. That's one trippy cartoon! I don't get it at all. Ha ha.
But I have to work tomorrow. So I'd better sign off for tonight.
Blessings to you!!! (still can't believe we're on Sup Forums).
Elijah Parker
>Without this, you might keep doing the same sin over and over and over and over and just keep confessing it on your own; with a priest, he can say, "Look, you keep fixating on this sin and your behavior is not changing, we have to figure out how to address that." Priests are oversight to ensure the flock is living the Christian lifestyle
Ahhhhhh. Got it! That's more clear. In college (I went to a Southern Baptist College) my New Testament professor recommended that we all should have "Accountability Partners" in our lives. For the express purpose you described.
Putting the pieces together, I assume he chose this route because recommending that we confess to a priest would be akin to heresy in Baptist thought.
Landon Collins
The way I interpreted it was that we have to accept who we are, and excel at that instead of pursuing other glories that might go to other people. It's like the Book of the New Sun thing (highly recommend btw). "Our unforgivable sin is that we cannot change what we are." It's honestly a great cartoon, thanks for the link OP.
Oh, also, there are "many crosses to bear", so don't feel bad if you feel like you're going on a different path then most. That ones just my interpretation though. Good night!
Hunter Watson
Technically, in Orthodoxy, you don't need a priest for your sin counselor, you can have someone else do it, but he has to be approved by your priest first. You still go to the priest for the absolution, though, you just bring the sign-off of your sin councilor. You can even have one long distance, through email, which is rare but is sometimes the case for the immediate family of the priest--they go to him for absolution, but discuss their exact sins with someone else.
Grayson Rodriguez
God bless and good night.
I think a major message of the cartoon is that while your burden in life, your cross, might feel heavy, you have no idea what sort of crosses other people have to bear, especially the unseen crosses your fellows deal with, and if you had an idea you might realize your cross, though difficult, is much lighter than it could be, because God will not give you a cross heavier than you can bear, he will only give you what he knows you can bear.
Carson Lee
>Ethiopian and Syriac...are in full communion No, they're not. Oriental Orthodox and Eastern Orthodox are distinct communions.
