Why do artists think they're entitled to make a lucrative career out of their preferred hobby?

Why do artists think they're entitled to make a lucrative career out of their preferred hobby?

Most interests involve work, but the fact of the matter is that their value is only what someone is willing to pay you, your work is not an essential function to society, and if all artists suddenly dropped dead things might be uglier and more boring but civilization would not come to a screeching halt

Get over yourself, there is nothing wrong with a company putting out a public call that anyone who wants to volunteer to submit art to a thing they like can do so

What would you have them do, reach out to individual artists and offer them money? That's massively biased towards established artists and fucks over the smaller people trying to get their foot in the door who actually would benefit from this type of exposure

Offer a flat rate of compensation for any art accepted? That'll lead to way more people halfassing shit for money and even more people (probably including you) bitching and moaning that they're underpaying

And what's stopping the well-known artist from just saying no? They can refuse to give their rights away for free and continue their search for a position as a permanent artist or keep trying to freelance elsewhere, and let someone who sees art as more than a paycheck contribute their stuff instead

If you are such a cheap-ass faggot about it then I guess you are not enough of a fan to feel pride on your work getting a spot on the book.

Plus You get fucking advertisement from a huge company so people that could be interested in your artstyle google you.

If you aren't getting paid enough for your art, either look at other markets or find a stable job on the side

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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patronage
m.youtube.com/watch?v=R2a8TRSgzZY
youtube.com/watch?v=essNmNOrQto
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>Why do artists think they're entitled to make a lucrative career out of their preferred hobby?
Because """"artists"""" are usually pretentious jackasses who don't seem to realize that webcomics are a severely over saturated market and that they're not some revolutionary writer making genre defining work, but just a single grain of sand on a beach of "meh"

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patronage

>Why do artists think they're entitled to make a lucrative career out of their preferred hobby?

Because you want to touch yourself at night and need to bribe someone to draw your inflation porn.

>only worth what others are willing to pay
And an artist is capable of setting a minimum bar for the value of their time and effort.
>people never turn down jobs that pay less than they believe they are worth
Do you even capitalism?

Don't you mean RB;GB?

Even if you honestly believe this, why are you bitching about not getting free art? They're selling a "product" for a price and if you don't want it then you can look for an artist that will (good luck). You're basically crying because they won't give it to you for free.

There is. Mo good reason to give away free art. If you can't charge at least minimum wage, you should just go get a job at the supermarket and spend your downtime practicing.

If you actually went to a classical artist academy in antiquity they'd tell you upfront it's your job to price yourself according to the type of art you want to make. If you want to make a lot of art, you price cheaply. Its where the term "setting the standard" comes from. If you want to do great works, you price highly. It's kind of why for a long time museum exhibits were very lucrative, since pre internet it'd be the only place to really see art.

The problem is that visual art is over saturated in general so you pretty much either have to work for pennies and opportunity while having multiple plan B's, or you go big or go home and try to gamble for a really big thing that'll get people to notice you and pay you accordingly. Sometimes it pays more to do a thing for a small rich audience than to try and do something for everyone, which is why somehow modern artists who make paint splats for a living really do live rich lifestyles, because they more or less involve themselves in rich communities instead of wasting time on a broader plebe community. Even the old masters knew this was a good bet.

The real problem is art schools do a poor job of teaching you art and don't teach you about economics and business management at all, which is kind of way more important as an artist if you want to make a living off it than actual technical art skill.

Working for free is good if your starting out, but beyond that you'll want to look for some paying gigs.

Drawing things is a craft skill. If you want to have professional-level stuff producing craftsmen, you need to pay them professional wages for their efforts.

If it's not possible to turn art into a proper career, people would be stuck with shit amateurs who'd only work when they have time and energy left from their real job.

But because there are people, companies etc willing to pay for whatever they deem quality content and commissions, it's possible to turn art into a career. You just gotta be really fucking good. And have connections and luck.

If it upsets you that people want to be compensated for their skills and time, there's something wrong with your head.

>If you are such a cheap-ass faggot about it then I guess you are not enough of a fan to feel pride on your work getting a spot on the book

>if you value your work so much you want to get paid for it you must not be a real fan who's proud of their work
>you should feel flattered I want to use your work without paying for it
>how dare you point out that people deserve to get compensated for their time and efforts, if you're not ready to work for free you're a cheap ass faggot

What brought this bitchfest on, OP? You're too poor to commission your fave porn artist, or something?

Real shit posting hours

This just in: artisan labour has 0 value, painters sculptures and porn artists no longer require monetary compensation for services rendered, all their material expenses to make the work don't count and the time to do it is irrelevant. I DESERVE the finest reverse vore lewds of my obscure waifu for free!

Literally kill yourself my dude, it's an applied craft, art is not separate or pure from a capitalist superstructure, meming about purity only hurts those practicing into accepting lower compensation for their luxury goods market you fucking nonce

If you want to make money off your art, you need to offer something people will really enjoy. Just making money on non-lewd art, or something niche like political stuff, is extremely difficult.

Best thing to do is to make a comic. Make people like your story and characters.

Lol someone is butthurt that commissioned art costs money.

>Best thing to do is to make a comic.
This. I love making comics, and while the audience is (very) small, it's still there.

>;D
Back to Tumblr

I'm not saying it has NO value, I'm saying it has LESS value because obviously if it had just as much you'd be able to get a stable job with it and not have to rely on freelance commissions and act like a company asking for volunteers for a fucking artbook is a crime against the art industry and your livelihood

personally I have no problem paying for art, the problem is many of the artists I'd be potentially interested in are massively overcharging for what their level of skill(and/or speed) can produce

or to put it another way, it should never cost more than maybe 10 bucks at the most for a single character B&W sketch

It's fine if they want to be compensated for it, and it's a good thing no one's making them give their work away for free and a call for volunteers to work for free doesn't affect them at all

I get wanting to be compensated, I don't get being upset that someone else is fine with not being compensated

Two sides to this. On the one hand, the comic is correct. Much of the exposure/visibility/experience you get working for free doesn't really help you. Look at all the artists on DA with millions of views who don't make enough off of their art to make a career out of it. They have tons of exposure, but that isn't paying their bills. It's useful, but it is very overrated.

On the other hand, art is non-essential and the market is flooded with artists, since most creative endeavors(art, writing) aren't exactly hard labor and no one wants a hard job. So expecting to get a well paid career in the field under those conditions is delusional. Before anyone wants to throw the "well lets see YOU do it!" logical fallacy, I'm a writer myself(as a hobby, I'm not suicidal). And no, it's not hard work and can't honestly be described as such.

OP seems triggered. I recommend Lackadaisy Cats. The quality artwork will put you at ease.

The lack of updates angers me now, I was perfectly happy until a couple minutes ago.

>or to put it another way, it should never cost more than maybe 10 bucks at the most for a single character B&W sketch
Price controls create shortages.

The proper rate for any artist is as high as they can go while still being low enough that a steady stream of customers will pay it. An artist's rate of output is relatively fixed. They can only work so fast. Ergo they only need to worry about being able to sell their art at approximately the same rate they produce it. If they're charging too much, they won't have enough customers and will have extra unproductive time. If they charge too little however, they'll have too many customers.

>most creative endeavors(art, writing) aren't exactly hard labor

Writing is pretty EZmode. Art isn't.

t. artist.

Keep it on /ic/ fag

Tell me about your box of Batman scripts.

>Tell me about your box of kindling
Ftfy

I've never considered writing a Batman script before, but now I can't stop thinking about it. Maybe I should steal that "Batman goes broke" idea that one user was talking about.

It's always amazing how Sup Forums will lambast people on wellfare and wax poetically about capitalism and the free market and voting with your wallet and now niggers are lazy and don't have jobs but the second the idea of paying for a creative field and the fruits of someone's gets thrown out it's a nonstop tantrum.

Then what are you bitching about? The strip is clearly about dunces who think that they're entitled to an artists work because art is *magic*, not about artists inherently deserve accolades and money for whatever bullshit they make.

It's funny as shit when an artist puts some work behind a paywall and Sup Forums flips its collective shit.

>RRRREEEEE GIB COMICS NOWWWWW

The bad rap socialism and communism get here, where nobody pays for a goddamn thing, always activates my almonds

>Why do artists think they're entitled to make a lucrative career out of their preferred hobby?
Most 'artists' are hobbyists and our marketplace, posing as a society, has no area within it where the garbage can be sorted from the gold except the measure of popularity.
This allows marketing psychos to sell whatever shit that panders to flaws they can, remaining contemptuous of consumers while the remains of society withers without any literature or dreams that examine the human condition.
TLDR art is a necessity, product makes money

>art is non-essential
how to spot a cunt in 3 words

>I'm a writer myself(as a hobby
> no, it's not hard work
>as a hobby
>a hobby
bitch if you're not trying to live by it, trying to make an actual career out of it, you don't fucking get to say it's easy. you are the child scribbling titties and gore in his school notebooks during study period and going "wow fuck Picasso, anyone could do this!"

>This allows marketing psychos to sell whatever shit that panders to flaws they can, remaining contemptuous of consumers while the remains of society withers without any literature or dreams that examine the human condition.

Look, senpai. There's an Arab guy willing to pay me $500 a pop for softcore tickle pictures of DC heroine B-listers.

I got bills.

what is this supposed to be responding to? who are you arguing with?

Hard times we live in.

Every art medium, from burnt stick drawings on stone to the internet, is first used for porn, then religion, then everything else.
The reduction of everything to its lowest nature is not realism, it's savagery.
Not every beautiful woman has to be a prostitute, not every talent has to be whored out, anyone who tells you 'we're all whores and slaves' is probably a pimp.

>what about the people who can't afford a dollar a month?
seriously, fuck them.

>Why do artists think they're entitled to make a lucrative career out of their preferred hobby?

Gee... With out art. We would not have any for of creative entertainment what so ever. We wouldn't even have Sup Forums for you to bitch about dumb shit in the first place.

Just pay the fucking artist, cunt nugget.

Guess what?! Exposure has and never will pay the bills.

Don't fuck them, pity them. If they can't even afford $1 a month for a fucking luxury they must have way bigger problems in life than whether or not they can view their favorite artist's art.

That, or they might be a 14-year old with no income.

The same people who can't afford cable but "really really really" want to watch a new episode of a TV show don't just get handed fucking free cable because they super duper want it.

I see a greater amount of socialists here than almost anywhere else on Sup Forums, what the hell are you talking about?

Most artists just use Patreon to offer early access. If you are such a wretched poorfag that you can't spare a dollar a month, you'll still get to see what they're uploading, just not immediately.

Some artists don't do this and I think it's a poor decision on their part mainly because it incentivizes fans to try to game the system, which leads to them having to counter by doing time-consuming things like only sending out uploads in emails to confirmed patrons.

I think the real way artists misuse Patreon however is turning their page into a storefront, and overcommitting to reward tiers. This often ends up screwing them as they find they suddenly owe so many rewards they don't have time to produce their bread and butter, which can lead to a collapse of the support base entirely.

But there are so many artists, and so many that expect to make a decent living out of it that never will. With how many artists there are, only the best are going to get more than scraps, meanwhile everyone else cries on twitter about how they expected the internet to financially support their shitty life choices. Not everyone gets to live their dream, and you can't make it with just heart, you need some talent and skill. It also doesn't help that the most vocal about not being able to make a living are pretty shitty, and cunts about it, which turns people against artists in general.

The sensible ones don't expect the internet to support their shitty choices, they just want to actually get paid for their work when commissioned.

Yeah not everyone gets to live their dream, that doesn't mean they should accept shitty practices because "well it's not supposed to be easy."

I think the internet really screwed the commercial art economy up!! Most people don't know what makes art good and the people who do, editors, producers, gatekeepers of all stripes, are becoming increasingly irrelevant in the face of the direct market. They'll just support unambitious art that reminds them of things they already like, hence a huge market consisting almost entirely of video game and nostalgic nerd horse plop, and the middlemen that used to screen this stuff have just noticed the trend and optimized it into movies and TV shows that maximize profitability via predictability. it makes me feel angry!

>lucuries are essential
That's not how this works, user.
What fucking hierarchy of needs are YOU running on?

>Can't even spell luxury
Really could have used the art of language in your life.

>oh boy, he missed a key, that invalidates the entire argument!
I appreciate your concession. Have a nice day.

>I don't get being upset that someone else is fine with not being compensated
That shit drives down the general level of pay for everyone and leads to new talent and fresh people trying to move into the industry getting exploited because suddenly it's "normal" or the "industry standard" that beginners are just expected to work for free for x amount of time.

It's very sensible and important to keep fighting against that and remind new people that no, it's not normal, it's not something "everyone has to do" in order to break into the industry, and yes you should value yourself and your work and demand compensation for your time and efforts.

I mean some creative industries having huge problems with unpaid "internships" where they legit demand that people put in full time workweeks for months for literally zero pay, for the "experience" and "contacts" are a direct result of that sort of bullshit "why does it bother you if someone else chooses to work for free" attitude.

Because employers will very, very quickly start insisting it's normal and that everyone should do it. Fuck I'm studying law and our student organizations are very strict about this, impressing upon us that the moment we work for free in order to gain experience / connections /exposure /whatever we hurt everyone in the field. If they want office workers, they can pay by the hour.

It's an universal problem

Wait are you talking about the comic in the OP? That's just your normal venting about asshole clients who want you to do what's probably several days worth of work, for free, because they'll put your name somewhere and you'll get loads of exposure! It's a common problem. People are trying to sponge free work off illustrators and designers all the time

m.youtube.com/watch?v=R2a8TRSgzZY

>art is non-essential
How things look affects a lot about how well they sell, for example.

> most creative endeavors(art, writing) aren't exactly hard labor and no one wants a hard job.
>lol only hard labor counts as a real job anything you can do in an office is super easy because mental labor doesn't exist
What the fuck?

>I'm a writer myself(as a hobby, I'm not suicidal). And no, it's not hard work
Of course you don't think it's hard work because you only do it as a hobby for fun and there's no quality or quantity demand, no stress involved.

Any thing is fun if you only do it for leisurely enjoyment as a hobby, without any external pressure or demands, when you happen to feel like it. When you MUST do something because it's your profession, it's how you pay the bills, and the things you produce must be able to hold their own in the commercial market, it's different.

Sure, putting words after one another isn't hard. But when you consistently have to put out stuff of such quality that someone's willing to pay for it enough for you to pay your bills with, it's hard.

youtube.com/watch?v=essNmNOrQto

Depends on how good that sketch is.
If it takes more than an hour you're barely paying them.

>spec work

triggered

...

But then the answer is, don't pay them, don't buy their art if you don't like it.

I'd go and piss on the cake.

Other abbreviations should be used more often.

OASBUMO

I just just threw up a bit inside my mouth

>Lawyers industry
>Being hurt
Fucking good. The glut of lawyers in the US driving down the wages of people with law degrees is the rare moment of justice in this world

I wouldn't go anywhere near these fucks, they're the kind that would sue you for bad photos

wait, are you seriously telling me there are actually some people who are morons on twitter?

HOLY FREAKING SHIT YOU JUST BLEW MY MIND

>they just want to actually get paid for their work when commissioned
They can, but likewise absolutely no one is entitled to buy a commission in the first place, there's nothing wrong about telling someone who wants a free commission to fuck off, but they can't bitch when no one wants to buy their shit when there's a million other artists, many of whom are far better but charge the exact same price for a commission.

MPWRMIEWA

Did I say I was in the US?

Why couldn't they bitch? Of course they can lament that they don't seem to be getting any customers.

There are people all the time the world over trying to start a new business, slowly and painfully figuring out that the business idea wasn't that viable after all, and folding the attempt in some way. It happens. Such is life. It's not your place to get upset at people for that.

I really don't get why you or your ilk are so butthurt because someone's trying to come up with a way to support themselves and earn some money through their skills and efforts. Sure maybe they're just not good enough and the harsh reality will dawn on them eventually, yea it's a little amusing when people seem a bit deluded about their skill level (though often they can be very young) but imo it's commendable they're trying, and aren't like all those fucks just straight up begging for donations because they're queer and life is hard.

Of course the world doesn't owe them success as an artist just because they want it, being a successful artist is hard - but they'll figure things out, and I don't see why on earth a stranger should get upset. People can ask whatever prices they like for their product. If it's too high, they won't sell, simple as that.

>really don't get why you or your ilk are so butthurt because someone's trying to come up with a way to support themselves and earn some money through their skills and efforts
I'm not, I'm saying it's your own fault if you have no customers so you don't really have any right to bitch about not making any money.

God damn you people, I saw this thread when it had two responses and I thought "Oh, all is well, no one is going to give him the (You)s he so deeply desires, I could have posted to denigrate him as well but why give it an extra bump" and I come back 11 hours later and you motherfuckers gave him over 70 goddamn replies for this shitty ass post.

>hurrdurr giev free stuff plz
Fuck off.

>your work is not an essential function to society
t. person who is psychologically incapable of getting through the week without any kind of art

>If you aren't getting paid enough for your art, either look at other markets or find a stable job on the side

Hey, I removed all the stupid shit from your post, OP.

No need to thank me.

Yeah just grind out furry porn on the side like everyone else, snowflake