Bojack Horseman

Who is the most irredeemable piece of shit in this show and why is it this guy?

Diane

It's not his fault, user. Blame the shortcomings of medical science and its ignorance of psychological disorders.

This worthless waste of space. Todd adds nothing to the show and actively cheapens the weight of the plot.

What's wrong with taking your insane wife to a doctor and going along with the doctors recommended treatment?

This

>ignorance of psychological disorders

It's not even funny anymore. I mean in the show- yeah, sure, whatever- but in society it's just. It's just fucking sad.

Why would someone in the 40s have psychology knowledge much less understand brain surgery?

Fuck that, he's a good person. Sure he's basically a fancier version of a hobo. In fact I literally can't think of anything that would make him NOT a hobo at this point (I honestly don't know where he sleeps except Princess Carolyn's apartment) but he hasn't actively and literally fucked people's lives over. Or, to my knowledge, taken half of someone's mind. Or chipped at someone's personality with belittling over their entire life.

He at least has a conscious self awareness of what it means to be a good person, unlike Bojack's entire family history save Hollycock.

I have to echo the Todd complaints, the show really doesn't know what to do with him. Also while I didn't hate Diane previously, S4's finale was really pushing it.

>my knowledge, taken half of someone's mind.
No character on the show did this. Off screen doctors and raccoons did but no character on the show did. Are you referring to a fan fiction you wrote?

>he hasn't actively and literally fucked people's lives over.
He's complicit to a rabies epidemic and is literally profiting off of it instead of helping the affected individuals. That's possibly the worst thing anyone has ever done on the show.

What about the Pastapocalypse that nearly happened to...what was it. Ocean city?

Seeing a lot of Todd complaints, but I would say that Joseph Sugarman and Diane are the worst in the show, with Todd trailing behind rather distantly.

The problem with Todd is that the writers somehow think anyone's interested in him. He's a lame gag character and I wouldn't dislike him if they didn't keep giving him arcs that always dominate the final episode for no conceivable reason.

They really shouldn't animate sex, it just looks terrible

Was he cheating on his wife too with his Secretary?

This
I don't hate todd and I even liked his episode, but he works better when there isn't so much focus on him

He is the best person in the show you fucking retard. He did the best for his family. It was a different time.

These guys get it

I just watched the new season today and just searched up some threads in the catalog. I didn't know there was a general dislike of how Todd is handled in the show. I quite liked his hijinks and how he pretty much acted as not just an errand boy for the other characters but for the plot as a whole when it needed to be shoved forward. The asexual stuff seemed tacked on though. We saw one meeting, they didn't really do anything relevant with it the whole season.

I feel next season will do more with it now that he has a girlfriend, it could lead to something else, maybe he will find out romantic relationships are not for him. Maybe next season won't be as good to him

I could see the writers turning it into a realization that he goes through life in a frivolous and unattached manner, not actually caring about anything if they really want to get depressing.

I feel like he tried to redeem himself in the end.

His daughter threw away her education, her career, a hopeful merger between companies that would have made him a billionaire, and her future entirely when she ran off with some jackass, yet at the end of it all he still offered her husband a high paying job and took them all back the minute the guy could put aside his pride long enough to ask. Both of them had deserved the squalor they were in, and had done everything they could to insult him and go against everything he had tried to do and build, but he still took them back and apparently never even made a deal of it to Bojack's asshole dad. They didn't want or deserve a second chance, and he still gave it to them anyway.

At the end of it all he just couldn't lose the last part of his family.

This.

/thread

"It's just how it was" doesn't really excuse his actions or behaviors, I think even an out of touch 1940s dad would have the sense to wait until his daughter is awake so he could calmly explain to her why they needed to get rid of all her things. Still I feel like there are more "evil" characters than him in the show.

Call him a good person all you want but he's still a shit character

>would have the sense to wait until his daughter is awake so he could calmly explain to her why they needed to get rid of all her things
He did it

Hey, hey. Read that post in his voice.

Does fault matter, when you actively destroy everyone who is unfortunate enough to be near you?

Are you talking about Beatrice? Because yeah, she was living cancer.

I think he meant how she was sleeping at the start when he was burning those things, she only woke up during.

Which means he first tried to do it while she wasn't awake so it wouldn't upset her and he could calmly explain to her why they all had to go, but when she woke up he had to calmly explain to her as best he could anyway, but she's six. He legit did nothing wrong burning everything, he needed to get rid of that shit ASAP and it would've been fine if she hadn't woken up.

>yet at the end of it all he still offered her husband a high paying job and took them all back the minute the guy could put aside his pride long enough to ask

He had actually repeatedly asked, apparently. Beatrice made it clear this was not remotely the first time that he'd reached out to them, Bodad just didn't want to do it. Which means that even after they told him no he just kept trying just so he could make sure the fucking asshole who knocked up his daughter could have a great job so he could give her a good life.

Old age puts a lot of things in perspective, I guess.

No he didn't, he had them burn all her stuff when she was asleep.

Well as much as we only really have Beatrice's memories and interpretation of him to go off of I think you're going way too hard in the other direction to try and make him look like a good person. You say he didn't want to lose the last of his family, but I could say he only did it because he wanted the company to stay in the family because that's part of its marketing and image, and hoped one day Bojack could inherit it. He seemingly had no impact in Bojack's life growing up either.

You're going way too hard in the other direction to try and make him look like a bad person.

>and it would've been fine if she hadn't woken up.
Uh, no, she still would've fucking woken up to find all her stuff is gone and would've been upset. He had it done while she was asleep because he thought he could avoid dealing with her "womanly emotions" even though at that point he was basically a single father. He didn't care about Beatrice as a horse/person, she was just there to marry some rich guy, bring in more money and then eventually crap out some sons who could take over the company one day.

>hich means that even after they told him no he just kept trying just so he could make sure the fucking asshole who knocked up his daughter could have a great job so he could give her a good life.

>Some guy comes in and woos your daughter enough to fuck her in the back of a shitty car because she's being rebellious
>Completely ruins a major transaction you were hoping for
>Completely fucks up her ability to finish the school you let her go to despite how little you wanted it
>Totally destroyed her future marriage prospects
>She doesn't even like the guy that much anymore
>You still have to repeatedly try over and over and over to give this guy a high paying job 99 percent of your staff would slay their firstborn child for, but he'd rather fuck around at a cannery and never write some shitty novel
>You have to suck it up and actually let him have that job when he finally breaks down and says yes, and pay him a shitload of money.
>Him, the guy who ruined your daughters future and every time she talks about him it's with nothing but pure resentment
>The guy who ruined your chance to further your business that you worked hard for, and now you have to sign off a huge ass paycheck for the rest of your life.
>But you do it anyway, because at least this means your daughter doesn't have to live in some shithole, and you can't let the last piece of your broken family fall away.

Why the fuck have we not gotten an episode from his perspective, I would seriously pay real actual Download DLC bonus content just to see an episode where he keeps having to offer this jackass a job.

And yet, as already mentioned, when she defied him on all of those points, in the end he wanted to make sure his daughter and grandson were provided for.

Are you a woman? Or is this just that white guilt thing? You americans are really fucked up. Joseph was a good man but you hate him for some reason.

Nah, all I did was point out that your "he didn't want to lose his family" argument doesn't really hold because he didn't actually play a role in Bojack's upbringing.

Maybe one day we'll get some insight into Joseph (don't know how since Bea's probably gonna die soon) but I expect his story to basically be like his daughter's: there was a nice and decent person somewhere in there but a fucked up upbringing ruined all that, but that doesn't necessarily excuse the person they ended up becoming.

>Uh, no, she still would've fucking woken up to find all her stuff is gone and would've been upset

So then he wasn't 'avoiding dealing with her womanly emotions' it was just him doing the thing that kept her from watching her toys melt.

>He had it done while she was asleep because he thought he could avoid dealing with her "womanly emotions"

Or upset children.

> even though at that point he was basically a single father.

Which means that when she woke up he would have to deal with her.

>He didn't care about Beatrice as a horse/person, she was just there to marry some rich guy, bring in more money and then eventually crap out some sons who could take over the company one day.

And yet in the end she was none of those things and he still took her back with open arms.

It was more of a ongoing theme, I think.

Bojack's said he was poison, and there was the whole thing where he partied sarah-lynn to death.

He talks it up more than is justified, imo. People freak the shit out over celebrities all the time, justification or no. Maybe he's casting his own failings as the ones he hates in his mother the most, allowing him to ignore that the problem is his own fucking ego?

>Maybe one day we'll get some insight into Joseph (don't know how since Bea's probably gonna die soon)

Probably a Butterscotch flashback.

>because he didn't actually play a role in Bojack's upbringing
You don't know that

>Maybe one day we'll get some insight into Joseph but I expect his story to basically be like his daughter's
The difference is that Joseph was an actual parent. He did care about her daughter and gave her pretty much everything. Beatrice never did a good thing for Bojack. She was just an abusive piece of shit. Remember pic related?

>because he didn't actually play a role in Bojack's upbringing.

Honestly by that point, would you?

I mean if those guys are right and Beatrice leaving him like that finally made him realize he essentially had nothing left of his family, who would want to possibly mess up another kids life? He made sure Bojack had the money needed to have a great upbringing, but aside from that what can he do?

>INB4 Joseph in a flashback is the first one to use the 'we're poison' line and he admits hoping that Butterscotch can do better.

>>INB4 Joseph in a flashback is the first one to use the 'we're poison' line and he admits hoping that Butterscotch can do better.

>InB4 "I can't cry, not when someone's looking...I just can't."

Doubt it. That was more of a political signalling thing than an actual attempt to deepen the lore. You can have horrifyingly shitty people without them being uncomfortably sexist and callous caricatures of muh patriarchy, so its inclusion was unarguably signalling. They'll move on to something else probably fascism or some shit.

>So then he wasn't 'avoiding dealing with her womanly emotions' it was just him doing the thing that kept her from watching her toys melt.
>Which means that when she woke up he would have to deal with her.
No, he would've expected Honey to deal with it, he didn't realize that he was basically a single father (because people didn't know just how fucked a lobotomy really was). His wife is mourning the death of their only son and his response is to tell his daughter to deal with it because they're both females and then promptly leave, even though as a child Bea would have no way of knowing how to comfort Honey. It was moments like that that just showed how out of touch Joseph was with the people in his family. He even SAYS it and that he won't make any effort to fix it.

>Or upset children.
His response to Bea rightfully breaking down over having woken up to all her possessions being burned is "crying is stupid". Oh and to subtly imply that she could end up like her mother if she doesn't control those pesky emotions of hers.

>And yet in the end she was none of those things and he still took her back with open arms.
That's the thing though, we don't know if it was with open arms. We don't know his motivation behind offering Butterscotch the job.

I'm not trying to say Joseph is the worst character to come out of the show. I don't think he is. I just don't understand where people are getting the material that they could write posts like from. Some of the things Joseph did and said were not good, right or fair and it's ridiculous that in a show like Bojack of all shows you think this character is the one who was right and good in everything he did. That's not a Bojack character.

Honestly I don't think we'll ever get a Joseph episode exactly because of that. It'll just confirm what we already know.

They all are.

Joseph Sugarman did nothing wrong

>Honey, Henrietta, Hollyhock
>Butterscotch, Beatrice, Bojack
Hmmmm

The Nazis.

If they hadn't killed Crackerjack, then Bea's mom wouldn't have gone crazy, which wouldn't have lead her to getting Lobotomized, which wouldn't have traumatized Bea, who wouldn't have made such the dumb decision of going with Butterscotch, who wouldn't have knocked her up, and wouldn't have created Bojack.

Literally hitler

it's the jews fault.
for pissing off the nazis

I don't even think Honey was going crazy. Okay, for the 1940s definition of crazy yeah she was, but by modern standards I just saw a grieving woman who didn't have a proper support network.

Honey episode when?

Jospeh is the worst person for being the catalyst of several generations of abuse and a sociopath. Todd is the worst character for being a waste of fucking time.
There wasn't any one person at fault for that, and it was completely averted

But the point is, by the definitions of the 1940s, she was batshit.

All because of nazis.

damn nazis

He never demanded anyone get a lobotomy. His wife demanded it. He did what she asked. How was that his fault?

I heard Freud was to blame for everyone's retarded ideas about trauma and PTSD back in the day

Wrong.
It was the ancient Egyptians who just LET them get away. If the Jews are in chains they can't harm anyone.

Honestly if Joseph had tried to be there for her who knows how things could've turned out. The second a woman shows any emotion that isn't blank happiness the guy excuses himself because he's said himself he doesn't know how to deal with it.

I'm not saying it's his fault entirely, but the guy would've rather had his wife get part of her brain get torn out before trying to actually comfort her.

>You don't know that
Bojack definitely would have mentioned him at some point if he had. Jospehs not the kind of person to not leave a strong impression on someone if they know him personally.

>his wife wanted emotional help therefore she demanded a part of her brain be removed
Oh, I guess I missed that episode.

I'm 100% on the "Joseph was not a good person" train but if he was a product of his time chances are Honey was too, and she could've sincerely thought this would make her better.

I think Joseph has a line at one point that implies he pushed for it more but I can't remember.

All this "Jospeh did nothing wrong" nonsense reminds me of something. Is Joseph Sup Forums's Griffith?

I have to agree that while I love Todd, this was his weakest season. Same ol' whacky antics but no personal growth to show for them.

I dont know, I definitely did not come out of that episode thinking they both agreed on a lobotomy
in fact im pretty sure that it was entirely on Joseph

Don't you know? Todd's asexual.

Even if he thought at the time it would make her better, even a young Beatrice could tell Honey had only been fucked up even more. That combined with him blaming Honey for not seeing Bea's sickness leads me to believe he really just didn't give a shit about what happened to his wife and just wanted the "problem" to go away at all costs.

Yeah I didn't get the impression he really "cared" about his family either. He didn't seem all that sad about Crackerjack either, which is really weird considering that was his son and heir.

I mean he can be comfortable with who he is now, so I would say he had a major amount of growth.

>Also while I didn't hate Diane previously
Peanut butter isn't the best husband by any long shot, but there's something so disheartening when he actually tries and does something just amazing and to have her completely shit on it. It just felt like conflict for the sake of conflict.

todd released several clown dentists and dentist clowns into the woods and let them get rabies

clowns arent human

He fucked up that one cute dentist who played the straight man and was the only good part of Todd's shitty arc. He's irredeemable trash

That clown "arc" was the dumbest in a not funny way shit that this show has done yet. And to wrap it up Todd literally is responsible for the deaths of a dozen people and it's supposed to be funny? I didn't think it was funny at all.

I think it says a lot that a gag arc that only really lasted only 2 episodes (10 and 12) left this much of a negative impression on people shows Todd needs to get axed. His shit was tolerable in past seasons because PB was involved, but he was dragged into his own shitty arc filled with bad celebrity jokes this season. I really loved what this season did for Bojack, PC and Diane but I can't overlook this shit.

>bad celebrity jokes
the jessica biel trashing was one of the few funny things this season

I didn't know jack shit about Biel or any of the other celebrities so all of it was lost on me. That kind of humor only makes a show dated, I don't know why they went so overboard with it in some episodes.

Not much sense in complaining about that for this series. It's almost entirely topical and most of it won't make any sense to kids in 15 years. But the jokes were nobody knows who Jessica Biel is nowadays so unless she suddenly becomes Meryl Streep tier A-list that will always be correct

>yfw Diane asks "am I a good person?" to Bojack in season 5

Yeah, you have a point. Some of the one liners on Biel were funny but I feel like she got too much focus for not only being an existing person but a hardly relevant side character.

Judah getting fired was much harder to watch than her break up with Ralph.

#Judahdidnothingwrong

Judah getting fired hit hard. He did the right thing, and Princess knew he did the right thing, but she needed to feel like she was in control of her life.

To be fair, anyone working under that frog would be liable for suicide. He'll never be like his father.

You can't blame him, it's the Jew's fault for getting him so peeved all the time

>he partied sarah lynn to death

she literally had cocaine inside the walls of her house. you can't cast total blame on him

>the guy that ruined your daughter

takes two to tango, shitstain

"When you think back on this, it will all be a happy memory..."

Fuck, just reading this gave me chills. What a fantastic episode

Bojack is self aware and has made progress, everyone else has always lied to themselves and other people to cover up their own shit. MrPB literally caused a contained earthquake and enabled the murder of Zach Braff, along with the destruction of woodchuck's hands (after he came to rescue them) so he could literally get points. Now that's an asshole right there.

...

God those Orcas were hot.

...

>Still looking to blame someone

It's like you've learned nothing.
4 seasons and you've learned nothing.

More like the writers retroactively unlearned everything that the show was ostensibly supposed to be about. The entire flashback arc was a fucking mistake.

Katrina. Everything in season 4 is her fault.

The show is about how life is less about what happens to you and far more about how you react to it.
Blame is nothing but an attempt to hide from the responsibility of your own life.