Dave Filoni had a perfect opportunity to recapture the lightning fast demon 2003 Grevous was...

Dave Filoni had a perfect opportunity to recapture the lightning fast demon 2003 Grevous was, with pristine CGI technology, but instead he gave us the most generic mustache twirling villian-of-the-week imaginable.

Grevious had to be all fucked up and slow with a cough in episode 3 because Mace smashed his organs like a Pepsi can in Genndy Wars. That makes sense.

Filoni's Clone Wars on the other hand takes place before Grievous captured the Chancellor, so him being fucked up and slow and coughing *already* doesn't make sense.

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Fuck. Off. Genndyfag.

at least we can all take solace in the fact that at least canon grievous still looks real cool

Genndy Grievous was retconned entirely

>Filoni's Clone Wars on the other hand takes place before Grievous captured the Chancellor, so him being fucked up and slow and coughing *already* doesn't make sense.

You can lay that at the feet of Lucas - he decided that he wanted Grievous in ROTS to be "pathetic" and sickly, which meant all the build-up that had gone into making Grievous a terrifying, monstrous opponent - in preview comics, in the GenndyWars, in Labyrinth of Evil, etc. - for Obi-Wan to overcome went out the door in exchange for Lucas's vision of a weak shakes-fist-and-runs style of foe. It was Lucas's movie to make, but this wasn't the first time he's decided to do something and let the rest of the licensed creators find out after the fact.

>best thing that ever happened to SW
>not canon, instead we get puppet show Clone Wars
Why live?

The coughing was always part of grievous character. Genndy just had his own imaging of what grievous character would be like and why he coughs. The only true portrayal of his charr after is in the books. Both genndy and Dave grievous are wrong in their own way.

Puppet clone wars had actual character development. Genndy has none of that, he is an overrated hack.

Maybe off-topic, but anyone know of any Sup Forums-related villains similar to 03's Grievous?

>The best incarnation of an interesting character will always be non canon. Instead he'll always be nothing more than a jobber.

It hurts

Indeed.

Can't think of one from any co movie or show. 03 grievous was essentially a cold hearted, walking blender.

Brain from Teen Titans, sorta

>he decided that he wanted Grievous in ROTS to be "pathetic" and sickly
I get that, but why did he want TCW Grievous to be similar to ROTS Grievous when TCW takes place before Mace crushed Grievous?

I love the clone wars and genndy wars is meh to me but I agree that Grevious got the shaft
I think it honestly mightve been because they wanted Ventress to be the ultra fast dual lightsaber dueling master flipping around and shit. So they made general grevious more of a "general" thats my theory anyways. Its one of the few shitty things about a near perfect show, but every show has them.
It also has the droid centric episodes...

>a cold hearted, walking blender
Exactly.

This means I finally have a reason to watch Teen Titans.

>when TCW takes place before Mace crushed Grievous?
Because in the new canon, that never happened, so they decided for Grievous to always be pathetic for some reason.

>have all the money in the world
>outsource your cartoon to a guy who can't even draw to save all the shekels

What a waste those cartoons were.

Oh you.

I honestly don't get all the hate for cw grievous. Yeah he wasn't the unstoppable lightsaber blender he was in gendy's imagining, but I think it made him a more nuanced and interesting character.

I think you're really off with the description of him as a moustache twirling villain. It's not like he was a push over and he kicked plenty of people's asses over the course of the series, but he also wasn't ridiculously over powered.

He could engage multiple jedi and perform very well, but he still struggled with jedi masters and multiple skilled jedi, so he had to be pragmatic in his approach to combat. All over I think Grievous had some really good showing (wrecked ventress, sparring with dooku etc). I do agree that he probably could have stood to have had better fights against obi wan and not just get KOd by the force, but I think grievous had more good showings than bad.

>Obsessed with improving himself he kept adding to himself
>generic

I just wish that was expanded on more than just a small part of one episode.

why do you need "character development" to understand or enjoy visual media?

Might as well watch jingling car keys at that point.

have you ever looked at a painting

It's so dense

you first.

>the light flash matches the saber being used

God, it's the little things.

I don't care if it isn't canon any more. Genndy Wars was a masterpiece.

wtf I love the prequel trilogy now

He had, like, 5 minutes per episode.

Yeah, I tried to but it wasn't intellectually stimulating enough for me. I want my mind to be challenged and engaged. No easy task, of course, but a lack of character development only adds to the insult to me in the form of paintings and, through further expansion upon the root point, Genndy's Clone Wars.

Prequels tried to have character development.
Genndy just went for pure style over substance and succeeded.

>I want my mind to be challenged and engaged
So you watch movies and cartoons aimed at toddlers?

Like for many things from the prequel trilogy, I was glad TCW fleshed out Griveous and gave him depth. The Genndywars character was just a proxy for action and lacked substance.

Grievous could have been the most badass jobber since Darth Maul and a highlight for a shit movie, but noooo Lucas has to Lucas

youtube.com/watch?v=uV9LvVb84xo

>these poor guys thought they were creating an important part of the saga that would stand the test of time
>it gets thrown out not even ten years later

I love the 3D show and have no grudge against Lucas but I always felt this was pretty disrespectful.

>throws lightsaber in air
>grabs it and still fights off a master duelist without ease
>people actually defend this

He is a sack of organs, he never needed any further explanation for the cough.

Also Greivous has tons of intimidating moments in the show.

Watch the Episode "Lair of Greivous" where he kills a Jedi Knight in one of his first appearances on the show.

In "Massacre" he genocides an entire planet, slaughtering legions of Nightsisters.

In "Son of Dathomir" (a comic based on unaired episodes) Greivous goes toe to toe with Darth Maul, and also kills the Nightsister Mother Talzin, who was in a seemingly-even match against Sheev.

Meanwhile Genndy Greivous is basically Greivous in appearance only, ridiculously able to fight and kill multiple Jedi Masters at once. Fun to watch once, but it really doesn't fit Star Wars at all. All style, no substance.

>hasn't actually watched it

Dooku kicks his ass without breaking a sweat

>Prequels tried to have character development
I thought the narrative was that Lucas didn't bother with character development.

>for a shit movie
But RotS is excellent.

I've watched the show multiple times, dumbass. I'm talking about just the gif. Just because Dooku kicks his ass once, doesn't change the fact that he's overpowered as hell as he's able to beat four jedi at once.

>Sup Forums talks about writing, character development and plot
>Sup Forums circlejerks a show with none of that

really makes me think

>whole film revolves around Anakin turning into Darth Vader
>didn't bother with character development
>uses the word "narrative" incorrectly"
wew lad

>Sup Forums is one person

how do people sit through Genndywars? I did once and I can't ever do it again, it's just 2 hours of fucking action, it get's old after 20 minutes

>How do people like things I don't like?

gee I dunno m8 that's a real thinker

That's a good joke man, funniest thing I've heard all morning

You're meant to watch it in 10 minute bursts.

But i'm not joking.

>>uses the word "narrative" incorrectly"
No?

He beats four Jedi with... and wait for it... "surprise, fear and intimidation". Dooku specifically tells Grievous that if he is lacking just one of them, he has no business fighting the most powerful Jedi in the Order. As shown by the training match where Dooku defeats him. Grievous is so full of hatred that he frequently disregards that directive. When he fights and defeats the _five_ Jedi, two of them are Padawans, two are knights. Only Shaak Ti is a Master. This is also the first time they face him in battle. He kills one of them almost immediately, causing fear and intimidation and he maintains the initiative in that fight. The Jedi don't know what or who he is, only that his droid army obliterated their forces and he's willing to fight them by himself. He deliberately created exactly the situation that Dooku told him he needed in order to win against Jedi.

However many times you've watched the show, it clearly wasn't enough.

Yeah. And it really helped show off his tactical side that made him a general.

Was there anything similar to that in TCW?

This is tumblr level of autism.

>paying attention=autism

It didn't even survive to 2005/Ep III's release. It's still there. We still remember it, and watch it. Hell I told a guy who needed a SW fix to download and watch it just this year. He had never heard of it. Told him it didn't "count" anymore and he didn't give a shit. It looked entertaining and that's all that mattered to him.

In what ways did it develop Grievous? Because all I remember was that it retconned his backstory into a generic "I became a robot to get stronger."

And Filoni turned Maul into ten times more of a pathetic character a few years later.

>character development, and plot are literally the only things that matter and it's impossible that a show could do other things well enough to make up for the lack of it

Grievous' only function was to be the Tarkin of his movie, except much more action figure-friendly so kids would buy it.

He was not intended to be the ultra murderbot badass, he was supposed to be the scheming mustache twirling leader in the tower. Dooku and Anakin were the killing machines of the movie and Grievous had to look worse than both of them.

Honestly I wouldn't even mind him being more of a general, if they made him good at it. He's supposed to be master tactician but he ends up looking an idiot most of the time as his plans are foiled.

>Dooku and Anakin were the killing machines of the movie
>Dooku

sure bout that bub?

Ever think he would have been a lot ore effective against jedi if he had one of those shields the destroyer droids had?

Why do people like to pretend all SW besides the original trilogy is anything but horseshit?

>>I'm wrong
>>better call him autistic

>>having Rich Evans tier opinions
The EU has a lot of garbage in it but there's good stuff too.

>why do people like things I don't like?

lmao

The people in the Star Wars threads on here unironically like the prequel trilogy and I felt like I was being memed on until I saw how sincere it was, and then I started feeling like I was hallucinating, or had slipped into another timeline.

A lot of people there are also weirdly protective of it, and get defensive if you talk about any flaw a prequel might have.

I can say that RotS is a very enjoyable movie to watch because it's genuinely entertaining in its silliness, and I attribute most of that to Sheev and his remarkable brand of overacting, the ridiculous goblin voice he segues into sometimes, etc. I do truthfully enjoy that.

But Phantom Menace is very trying and Attack of the Clones is a miserable experience in every way.

>people have opinions, holy fuck
This may come as a shock to you, but the prequels are actually very popular. An entire generation grew up with them.

In fact outside of the western world, they are actually preferred over the OT, which didn't reach cult status outside of the USA/UK. There are even Lucasfilm representatives that have spoken about this, and the demographics of the Star Wars audience.

Just because someone "grew" watching a franchise doesnt mean they are not entitled to good taste.
I was 7 when The first prequel movie came out in 2001, saw all the movies in movie theater and I still recognize them as shit.

Empire > Hope > Jedi > Sith > Awakens > Menace > Clones

Indisputable

I'd put Awakens at the very bottom, personally.

Why is that? Any reason other than "woman" or "black" is fine.

It's a soulless cash grab that plays on nostalgia and ultimately makes the struggle in the OT pointless.

And the new trilogy wasn't?

>Filoni turned Maul into ten times more of a pathetic character

>Stayed alive through pure hate
>Took over a galaxy spanning crime syndicate
>Conquered fucking Mandalore
>Got to the point where Sheev himself literally says out loud he considers Maul "a rival"
>Ten times more pathetic than a guy with no character who got bisected by a padawan

I felt it took the series backwards and kinda ruined the ending RotJ set up.

And disregarding the races and genders present, I felt Finn's characterization was a bit off with how enthusiastic he was about killing his previous comrades, and Rey really was a bit too good at everything. It made her outshine everyone else when they shared a scene.

See, I'm the opposite. I was a teenager when the prequels came out and I hated them immediately because they were nothing like what I expected. As I've grown older and become a father I've come around to them because I can see what George was trying to do. They have their problems, to be sure, like stilted dialogue and wooden direction, and some poorly composited special effects. But they also have some great acting too, some very memorable lines, beautiful art direction, and some really great special effects too. All of this in conjunction with a very ambitious story, that frankly was probably too big for three movies, but nevertheless makes a fascinating character study that mirrors the traditional hero's journey of the OT.

Now, I certainly don't like them more than the OT, and as I see it, their primary objective and strength is enhancing the story of the OT by providing context. Nevertheless, I have come to enjoy them in their own right, and look forward to my yearly Star Wars marathons.

If there's one thing I've learned over the course of my life, it's that nothing, least of all taste, is as objective as you think when you are young, my friend.

Could you elaborate?

no, you, fag.

It sucked but at least Lucas had more than just money on his mind. It was on his mind a lot but he was trying to tell a story as best he can, even if it came out badly.

The new movies are made by a committee who sit at a table, discuss demographics and market trends to find what will sell the most. If they were actually interested in telling a good story they would have made a movie that wasn't A New Hope 2.0.

These are excellent points. I still thought I and II were worse movies.

Because of the superb animation and art direction you fucking philistine.

this looks retarded, and the character design is chunky and unappealing
fuck you, OP

That's our user.

Whats the point of a superstar rank cast if your main character actor is shit?
Also...
I get that they had some good political issues treated in prequel, but the good writing is the writing that pulls it off with entertainement.
You see, thats what the OT nailed the most. You didnt see darth vader making a speech about galaxy politics or boba fett and solo discussing about interplanetary smugling issues for more than half of a movie. It was just implyed there. And thats what made it great.

Tell me, what political issues are discussed at length in the prequels?

None. By their nature the prequels had to be at least somewhat political, because they are about the downfall of a republic and the rise of an empire as much as they are about the downfall of Anakin and the rise of Darth Vader. But the political issues in the prequels are not treated with any nuance or discussed at any length. They are only there to show that the Republic is corrupt. That's it. And there's only a handful of political scenes at that; the vote of no confidence in TPM, the Military Creation vote in AOTC, and the dissolution of the republic in ROTS. 90% of the prequels are still classic Star Wars action.

If you really think that then you have exceedingly poor taste user.

Fuck. Off. Filonifag.

>I get that, but why did he want TCW Grievous to be similar to ROTS Grievous

Because that's what he created the character to be. TCW Greivous is the truest iteration of the character. GennedyWars Greivous is just a couple of fucks taking some concept art and making their own character from it.

Greivous was always meant to be a guy loaded up with a shit-ton of bells and whistles masking an inferiority complex, because he doesn't have the guts to be great on his own.

>Because that's what he created the character to be.
No? The character was originally created to be threatening and scary, that's what the designers worked off of.

Pretty easy for me to do. I have fond memories of watching the DVDs of Genndywars between episodes II and III when my family had Star wars movie marathons.

>when The first prequel movie came out in 2001
Gee, you really seem to know your stuff.

>makes the struggle in the OT pointless
I will never understand this complaint. What else were they supposed to do with a sequel? Did you expect there to be a billion years of peace where everyone lives happily ever after?

>What else were they supposed to do with a sequel?

Not make one?

Sure, that's a fine option, but it's also intentionally evading the question.

There had been sequels in book and comic form for decades, and they had conflict that took place after the fall of the Emperor, that doesn't mean they rendered the OT pointless, and neither does TFA.